I agree with a lot of these thoughts. The only thing I can think is they were really trying to hit that sub 1k mark.
What were the LRHS selling for before the steep discounts?
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Rifle Scopes New Bushnell Elite LRHS2
- Thread starter 5RWill
- Start date
What were the LRHS selling for before the steep discounts?
More than $1000, but at the discounted price they were one of the best values, imo.
Do we know if this will have the same internals as the originals?
Didn't the engineers/tech folks who were behind the original LHRS and LRTS leave Bushnell?
Didn't the engineers/tech folks who were behind the original LHRS and LRTS leave Bushnell?
I need the donut!!!!
I absolutely love my LHRSi on my AR platforms!!!
I hope the speculation regarding the g3H having the donut of death is correct!
I absolutely love my LHRSi on my AR platforms!!!
I hope the speculation regarding the g3H having the donut of death is correct!
3-12 only saved 2 oz, I never really saw the point. If it was 15-17ish oz I'd own one.
5x, 6x, etc etc brings with it its own downsides. Both Ilya and Frank have recently mentioned they think things may start moving the opposite way. Shorter form factor would have been nice though, I agree with you there.
I meant in regards to it being a moderate weight mil/mil option for a hunting rifle. Not necessarily that it was substantially lighter than the 4.5-18. I just think objectively it’s the better optic. I really wasn’t fond of my 4.5-18. Larger erectors do present new problems but id argue for the intended purpose i think the benefits outweigh the downsides. As long as the the erector ratio isn’t huge in a small form factor. Sticking around the popular options would bring some serious benefits.
Interesting about going the opposite way. I’ve been hunting with my AMG for two years now. Easily one of my favorite optics. But have switched to hunting our crp as of late and it’s becoming quite obvious to me why people dislike 6x on the low end.
I think Vortex surprised a lot of people with the AMG line being their top of the line and fully sourced and made in the USA, but when it seemed they were pushing some limits with the Gen II scopes and 6x erectors and heavy bodies, the AMG 6-24 seemed to take a turn back in time to a traditional design with a 4x erector but by keeping the weight down they attracted a lot of attention.
I suppose Bushnell did something similar with the LRHS after making waves with the short bodied DMR and a 6x design they released a traditional design with 4x but by keeping the weight down attracted a lot of attention. I also like that they mixed things up a bit andinstead of the iconic 4-16 range they offered 4.5-18 which my aging eyes prefer have a little more on the top end.
Like many I secretly held out hope that a new LRHS/LRTS scope would incorporate a 5x erector with improved FOV and slightly shorter body but doing so would have undoubtedly driven the price upwards. In a post COVID world it was undoubtedly a wise financial choice to keep the scopes essentially the same and just spec out better glass and reduce the cost.
Could there be another AMG on the horizon, undoubtedly so, but while I hope for a 5x design my gut tells me it’s probably going to be a 4-16x50 but come in around 26oz or less.
Leupold already has their light weight 3.6-18 in the Mark 5 but lack of decent reticle and high cost of illumination will keep it off the radar for most.
There is really no one close to this price point that can really compete with the LRHS2 so for that reason alone this scope will probably do well.
I suppose Bushnell did something similar with the LRHS after making waves with the short bodied DMR and a 6x design they released a traditional design with 4x but by keeping the weight down attracted a lot of attention. I also like that they mixed things up a bit andinstead of the iconic 4-16 range they offered 4.5-18 which my aging eyes prefer have a little more on the top end.
Like many I secretly held out hope that a new LRHS/LRTS scope would incorporate a 5x erector with improved FOV and slightly shorter body but doing so would have undoubtedly driven the price upwards. In a post COVID world it was undoubtedly a wise financial choice to keep the scopes essentially the same and just spec out better glass and reduce the cost.
Could there be another AMG on the horizon, undoubtedly so, but while I hope for a 5x design my gut tells me it’s probably going to be a 4-16x50 but come in around 26oz or less.
Leupold already has their light weight 3.6-18 in the Mark 5 but lack of decent reticle and high cost of illumination will keep it off the radar for most.
There is really no one close to this price point that can really compete with the LRHS2 so for that reason alone this scope will probably do well.
I believe Franks comments were more geared towards PRS/competition/linger range optics where a 6-24 or similar is more than adequate.
The Bushnell LRHS is aimed at the hunting/cross over market where there is arguably a greater need for higher magnification ranges.
Even if they don't intend on changing the 4x mag range they need to improve the abysmal FOV. Bushnell Elite scopes in general have some of the narrowest FOVs in the business.
I could have sworn he was going the other way, and saying that the market should/will move towards longer magnifications because more guys are shooting longer and longer distances, a 6x+ erectors are making less sense as you dont use the lower end of the magnification range.
Regardless, I mostly agree with you and @5RWill. I don't care quite as much about some of the issues as you guys do, but the scope could be improved, we are all in agreement. But I like having a scope that has nice glass, controls CA pretty well (my eyes are sensitive to CA), good turrets, useable magnification and on the lighter side for ~750 on my longer range hunting gun. If Bushnell 'fixed' all the issues, it would probably be a 1200 dollar scope.
I think this summarizes my feelings the best, and I am just being redundant at this point
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AMG needs to make top grade scope max ~16-18x50 @ 27oz and 25yd parallax etc and they will make $$$
The original LRHS was likely responsible for a lot of Leupold VX6's hitting the classifieds.
Hoping for another 3-12 model in the LRHS2, mostly bc the original is impossible to find on the used market. That should tell you all you need to know about that scope.
Hoping for another 3-12 model in the LRHS2, mostly bc the original is impossible to find on the used market. That should tell you all you need to know about that scope.
At that price point, I’ll find $ somewhere to put on another LR AR. Perfect for that purpose, imo.
If I'm reading that right, this is not a Bushnell consumer product, at least not yet, and that GAP bought a bunch and will be selling them exclusively through their site...
PS - appreciate the updates for us anti-social media folks
That is not true of the LRTS line. The 3-12 and 4.5-18 both have about the same FOV of other scopes in the same power range. The 3-12 is right in line with others like the Burris or Weaver 3-15, and the 4.5-18 FOV is right between the XTRII 4-20 and 5-25, and SWFA 5-20.
LRTS 4.5-18 23.5
SWFA 5-20 20.1
XTRII 5-25 18
XTRii 4-20 28.5
MK5 3.6-18 28.3 but 5.8 at 18 vs 6 at 18 for the Bushnell
^^^ S&B Ultra Short 5-20 - 23.4' @ 5x
The DMR series has worse FOV than the LRHS/LRTS (and many other scopes) so maybe that's what beet was mostly referring to?
For an older design the LRHS/LRTS is decent, but I'd like to see newer designs from mfr's with wider angle eyepiece like the Burris XTR III, Leica PRS and March FFP High Master's (I would mention the NF NX8 but the distortion on the 2.5-20 is truly "abysmal", so if it's narrower FOV or nasty edge distortion I'll take narrower FOV which is what they did oddly enough with the 4-32...)
The DMR series has worse FOV than the LRHS/LRTS (and many other scopes) so maybe that's what beet was mostly referring to?
For an older design the LRHS/LRTS is decent, but I'd like to see newer designs from mfr's with wider angle eyepiece like the Burris XTR III, Leica PRS and March FFP High Master's (I would mention the NF NX8 but the distortion on the 2.5-20 is truly "abysmal", so if it's narrower FOV or nasty edge distortion I'll take narrower FOV which is what they did oddly enough with the 4-32...)
The XTR II line isn't exactly world class when it comes to FOV, the Mark 5hd is also rubbish.
The LRTS/LRHS lags noticeably in FOV vs a lot of newer gen scopes, and as Will said the DMR line is even worse.
I have a spread sheet I made at work that I'll share (had a lot of free time over Covid) that shows the LRTS being pretty poor.
Compared to the likes of Vortex offerings, the 4.5-18 is more like a 5-18 PST/Razor offering the worst of both models.
Admittedly the LRHS2 scope will be a offering that has no direct competition so still has appeal, but for my uses the combination of FOV and mag ranges makes it unappealing for me.
A sub-$1k LOW-glass optic at reasonable weight and dimensions and durability is going to take the retarded Vortex and Sig lineups in that price range to the field and beat them with a large stick. No one gives a shit about a few feet of FOV when you're getting a scope that you might replace a Razor with just to shave a pound and a half off your gun.
My PST 3-15 has 17% wider FOV on 3x that's a considerable difference.
My Leupold VX6 3-18 covers both mag ranges within a single scope and still has a wider FOV.
This new scope certainly brings a lot to the table (that's what the rumors indicate anyway) but there is also a huge amount of missed opportunity to improve on the old model.
The main advantage this thing is touting is inproved glass under 1k and glass ain't the be all end all.
MK5 is rubbish.
Ok chief. What are you rocking S&B, ATACR, ZCO? 
I think WJM308 is hitting more towards where the LRTS line could improve. Apparent FOV is pretty small compared to other offerings. The PSTII line has great FOV, and big apparent FOV, but at the cost of a big ocular lens housing. It was something i really liked in the Tango 6 also, huge apparent FOV, but I had to take my bolt lift off because the ocular housing was so big.
MK5 is rubbish.
I think WJM308 is hitting more towards where the LRTS line could improve. Apparent FOV is pretty small compared to other offerings. The PSTII line has great FOV, and big apparent FOV, but at the cost of a big ocular lens housing. It was something i really liked in the Tango 6 also, huge apparent FOV, but I had to take my bolt lift off because the ocular housing was so big.
Mark 5 FOV is rubbish not the whole scope. Which is unfortunate as both the VX5/VX6 and Mark6 have very respectable FOVs.
I know I'm bleating on about FOV specs, unfortunately (for me) I've been spoilt by a few scopes with very good FOV and have grown to really appreciate a wide apparent FOV. Much like once you've started noticing CA you can't un-see it.
I'm sure this new Bushnell will be great and will prove to be very popular, especially at the price point.
Unfortunately (again for me) it doesn't quite cut the mustard for what I want to use it for.
FYI for clarification - This scope is looking more like a GA PRECISION offering instead of an official Bushnell product. Apparently George convinced Bushnell to sell him a limited production run of existing LRHS scope main bodies and added better glass and a tweek here and there. Since there's no Bushnell SKU # , it's probably only available at his web store.
Looks like he's hooking up the hunting community with a cool opportunity . He's a good guy
Looks like he's hooking up the hunting community with a cool opportunity . He's a good guy
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Having owned two of each type, I sold my PST II 5-25x in favor of my LRTSi 4.5-18x.
No doubt Bushnell could make the LRTS/LRHS 'better' but personally I'd prefer them keep it with a 30mm main tube and price point around 1k....there's plenty of other higher-end options if you seek Alpha-level glass, eye box, FOV, mag range, etc etc etc.
"Jack of all trades/master of none" suits me just fine when considering the value provided.
No doubt Bushnell could make the LRTS/LRHS 'better' but personally I'd prefer them keep it with a 30mm main tube and price point around 1k....there's plenty of other higher-end options if you seek Alpha-level glass, eye box, FOV, mag range, etc etc etc.
"Jack of all trades/master of none" suits me just fine when considering the value provided.
I have a LRTSi 4.5-18x. I got when Vista was doing a big rebate, got it for around $750. It replaced a long serving Leupold MK 4 10X.
Scope is fantastic, the clarity is amazing, love the G3 reticle, the turrets, it tracks great.
This new offering does not excite me in any way. To me, its a safe Covid 19 move.
The only thing I would do different, is have a thinner reticle with either a floating cross or dot. The G3 reticle is a tad too thick, but usable.
Just my $.02
Scope is fantastic, the clarity is amazing, love the G3 reticle, the turrets, it tracks great.
This new offering does not excite me in any way. To me, its a safe Covid 19 move.
The only thing I would do different, is have a thinner reticle with either a floating cross or dot. The G3 reticle is a tad too thick, but usable.
Just my $.02
I went hunting over the weekend with my 3-12 LRTS, and while I do agree that the thinner reticle is great for target work, I think the thicker LRTSi reticle would be better for hunting. Hunting in brush and snow with the sun low on the horizon really makes that thin reticle hard to pick up on sometimes.
FYI for clarification - This scope is looking more like a GA PRECISION offering instead of an official Bushnell product. Apparently George convinced Bushnell to sell him a limited production run of existing LRHS scope main bodies and added better glass and a tweek here and there. Since there's no Bushnell SKU # , it's probably only available at his web store.
Looks like he's hooking up the hunting community with a cool opportunity . He's a good guy
I wonder how many scopes you'd have to buy for a manufacturer to do a special run for you. Curious to know if it's just 100 scopes or 100,000.
Curious too. Can't decide if I want to get an LRTS to play with or wait for one of these.
That is great that they are building a special run for GAP. What is not great is my hopes for an illuminated LRHS2 are dead in the water. Illum is a deal breaker for me on FFP scopes I plan on using for hunting. That dawn and dusk time really needs illum for me since I tend to keep my power on low setting while hunting.
IMO: When you can't get any new ones for 750 anymore. The used ones are going to cost more than that. Used ones used to bring 1k easy before the GAP deal. Just food for thought. I have a very short wish list for could improve on the LRHS. The glass is good, but better is better. I can pretty much guarantee one of these will run through my stable at some point.
I’m not sure that we know for certain the LRHS2 will not be illuminated. I agree that Bushnell’s traditional illumination identifier is to put “i” at the end of the name, but Bushnell also hasn’t used a number “2” either, they use the Roman numeral “II”, so this scopes mode number is already deviating. Has George confirmed it will not have illumination in the FB communications?
That sucks, but is expected. Guess I will keep my eyes open for old LRHSi to show up. They sure are scarce and when I have money burning a hole in my pocket none are to be found, but when I've busted the mad money fund one always seems to pop up in the classifieds. Oh well, such is life. I may still grab one of these LRHS2 just because I really like the LRHSi I have.
If anything, I think this just makes the older illuminated models worth even more than the new ones...
Shhhhhhhhh. Don't be saying that out loud damnit. They are already hard to find and now you are going to drive prices up. I think you need to push the "It's an old design and outdated and not fit for your magical laser-beam gay tiger rifle and you should sell that old piece of junk to me for less than GAP prices" line everywhere.
Just put my LRHSi up for $1500
Just kidding, but I did have a WTT on it a couple weeks ago but decided to hold off as I figure things out. It would be very hard for me to part with this scope, it continues to impress. I just bought a Credo 2.5-15x56 and did some low light testing against the 4.5-18x44, I thought for sure when the light got low the Credo would show a clear advantage with it's much larger 56mm objective but was surprised to see the LRHS holding it's own even into dark, also, even without illumination the circle of death made it easier to find center at 10x even over the SFP reticle in the Credo. This new LRHS2 should be amazing with the new Prime ED glass, not really for me without illumination, but I may grab one anyway if the glass is truly "that much" better.
I have an older Bushnell Elite Tactical 3-12x44 that still gets moved from rifle to rifle as I have found mine to be extremely repeatable and clear enough to use for me in any of my hunting situations. I absolutely love the scope for what was about a $750 investment 10 or so years ago. Yes, a mil dot is not as precise for wind holds, but it never cost me a coyote.
I recently picked up a LRTS on sale from Camera Land for another $750, and I've been extremely happy with the way this one is working so far. It's on my 7RM hunting rifle, and while the reticle is a bit thin (and not illuminated) for those last three minutes of shooting light, I see no need for *me* to upgrade as my hunting situations are different from a trophy hunter on a once in a lifetime hunt.
These scopes are a fantastic deal for the money.
I recently picked up a LRTS on sale from Camera Land for another $750, and I've been extremely happy with the way this one is working so far. It's on my 7RM hunting rifle, and while the reticle is a bit thin (and not illuminated) for those last three minutes of shooting light, I see no need for *me* to upgrade as my hunting situations are different from a trophy hunter on a once in a lifetime hunt.
These scopes are a fantastic deal for the money.
I may be in the minority but I really prefer capped windage over locking for a hunting scope. I would be pretty happy to just see a little glass upgrade and change to .2 mil holds and keep the illumination. That’s it. The LRHSi still holds its own as a hunting scope pretty well, it wouldn’t take much to update it just a little bit. I always think I wanna “upgrade” mine but I still haven’t figured out what that upgrade is without spending 3x as much.
These are Elite Tactical scopes made by us/LOW. They also aren't the only new ETs coming this year. Many will like what's on the roadmap. I'll post up more info on the LRHS2 and others here when I can.
still waiting.............how about now?
I have the very similar BUSHNELL Elite LRTS 4.5 - 18 x 44 with illuminated G3 reticle. Not "ED" glass but very good glass. EXCELLENT long range hunting scope for hunting here in Nevada. My LRF binoculars are set to read hold in mils to match the reticle. I compete with an RPR mounted with a BUSHNELL ERS 3.5 - 21 x 50 scope with an H59 reticle so using the G3 reticle is second nature.
It sits in Talley rings on my 6.5 PRC Browning X-Bolt Pro hunting rifle. The Talley rings have an optional bubble top half on the rear ring and they are burnt bronze Cerakoted to match the rifle's factory Cerakote.
BTW, it has olive green Cerakote, just because. It's called "hunting bling". Love this accurate rig. KNIFE-> HELLE GT from Norway.
It sits in Talley rings on my 6.5 PRC Browning X-Bolt Pro hunting rifle. The Talley rings have an optional bubble top half on the rear ring and they are burnt bronze Cerakoted to match the rifle's factory Cerakote.
BTW, it has olive green Cerakote, just because. It's called "hunting bling".
Love this accurate rig. KNIFE-> HELLE GT from Norway.
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A 3-12 illuminated LRHS2 would be AMAZING
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