Re: New Chinese lathe or old south bend?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bryan27</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Darkstar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Bryan27,
Thank you for the feedback.
The used machine tool industry does contribute to growing the manufacturing base. There is still a high percentage of start ups in manufacturing in this country that begin operations with used equipment. As far as the US economy goes, when your standing on our US soil with your US currency buying used equipment from a US company, you are contributing to the US economy at levels that far exceeds buying a product from China through one of their US based distributors.
If rebuilding your existing gear is cost prohibitive for your operations, then there you have it. If you dont have what you need to do your manufacturing operations and feel you "HAVE TO" buy Chinese to move forward, then there you have that too. Its def not for me to tell you what to do. We all do what we have to do based on our circumstances. Getting in the loop is not as hard as you think. All areas are different. Memphis and the surrounding areas for a few hunderd mile radius has some large industrial circles. Yes, it does require effort to make the right contacts, but it may bring you more contacts, information and opportunities than you might have thought could happen. There is alot more out there than ebay and craigslist.
One thing is for sure. With our help and based on how we spend our money, China is eating our breakfast and lunch. At the current rate, it will not be long before they eat our dinner too. When that happens, there will be more at stake than questioning whats a hobbiest to do.
We all need to keep this in mind as we move forward spending our money. How we spend and who we do business with is paramount to our nations future. It's quite obivous the government wont do it. Look at how our president and his cabinet caved into China this year.
It's up to us to set the standards and to change this clock.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
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If the machine tool is used to manufacture a product or provide a service then THAT activity is what is contributing to the American economy, not the purchase of the used machinery. When that peice of machinery was originally built and sold is when it contributed its part to the American economy, at that point it had turned raw material, ingenuity and hard work into a product. Not only that, but with its original purchase it prevented the potential of those American dollars from leaving the country.
I may need to brush up on my economics, admittedly, but spending US dollars on US soil from a US machinery dealer buying USED US iron isn't going to contribute to the GDP, which imo is where we should be focussing our dollars. You'd be moving money from your checking account to your savings account, basically. The only thing you'd be doing is supporting the machinery dealer in a no growth activity.....you'd have to follow one hell of a paper trail to know how many American dollars benefitted Americans from the time a used machinery dealer bought and sold the machine and compare that to what an importer does. My guess is that the importer contributes more to the American worker when comparing dollar volume to dollar volume with the used machine dealer....that's just my hunch though.
If the rest of the economic sectors could take just one thing from the firearms industry and I got to choose what it would be, the amount of US based manufacture is what I would apply to them. You can pick up a foreign made component in one hand, a US made one in the other and just feel the quality of American craftsmanship without ever having to look at it. I am a big supporter of American manufacturing and the American worker to the point that on some things I'd just assume go without if I can't afford US made rather than buy imported, but on some things we just can't compete/won't compete on price.
Some things you may find of interest to research, if you haven't already are the %'s of dollars that came from tarriffs -vs- taxes over our history, how the trade agreements effected those numbers and our trade deficit. The trends aren't going to be surprising but it will piss you off when looking at how the numbers trend over time and the agreements and law that drove the numbers. American manufacturing isn't being LOST it's being GIVEN away. Sooner or later we are going to have to say f*** China and f*** this "global economy" and take care of ourselves. At that point we will have to deal with all the countries holding our debt, but we will have to deal with it now or deal with it later......may as well deal with it now that we're broke to begin with. </div></div>
Bryan27,
Yes. If you are buying used machinery, that sale supports a business that is part of a local economy. If you are using it producing a product for sale it now supports local and the gdp. Either way, both are good and you are not supporting China. Yes, the economic incentives to use China (or Asia as a whole) are so frustrating it defies words. I have been directly dealing with these incentives and American Manufacturing for over 20 years now. The best we can do is keep conversations like this alive and get it in more citizens hands and all of us begin to talk about what it will take to get the right politicians in office that actually want to reinstate The American Manufacturing Base as a core to their economic strategy. It dont happen if we dont do it. Like I said before, It's quite obivous our current government wont do it. Look at how our president and his cabinet caved into China this year.
If Grizzly and others like them were producing their machinery here in the US, I would personally look at them differently. They do not. They are attempting to maximize their profits as they scavenge their part of the globe in search of the next country to be their new asian wetback labor. All the time their quality suffers and we still buy it. Hearing South Bend is now South Bend Taiwan and they are our well accepted US buddy so please dont hesitate to buy dont float my boat either. If they too were building here with asian, american and euro components, I would be looking to benchmark them for use. I know what I am saying involves much, much more and profits will not be as quickly maximized in their favor, so I wont hold my breath on that one.
I was returning home late last week and while in the airport I read the market weeks bump was a result of China stating they had somewhere around a 50% increase in exports. That being said, they are a tumor you just dont cut off without disasterous results to us the host. We do have to do it, but we got ourselves in deep. It will take time to do so we dont damage ourselves any worst then we already have. We did this and we can undo this.
As far as you or others looking for used machinery goes, try the Thomas Register for used machine tool dealers in your area. You will more than likely get better results. I put a call into a friend about used machinery in Memphis area and if I hear anything solid I will PM you.
Now as far as arms manufacturing here in the US is concerned, dont drop your guard. There is not a US indusrty sector that Asia has not bastardized and capitalized on. The ones I have witnessed over the years that fell the easiest were the ones with the largest hubris. I would not be the least bit suprised to see barrles, actions, stocks, bottom metal, accessories, etc being imported from China and if you follow the money trail, like always you will find it happens from within your own community.
