Over 1000 yards if pointed as suggested (at near sea level, even further at elevation)
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New GAP Extreme Hunter in 6.5 SAUM
- Thread starter Sendero_Man
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Over 1000 yards if pointed as suggested (at near sea level, even further at elevation)
I have read a few forums with mixed opinions about the
Remy xpro trigger.Non came from GAP owners. Many say its not consistent with repetitive use .Some say the trigger pull fluctuated. My personal experience, I had no complaints
.I had a local Smith lighten it up a bit. Though I sold the rifle with under 400 rds fired.
It comes very strongly recommend NOT use a Jewl for hunting because of dirt reasons. So I guess my question is the GAP tuned remy trigger have other modifications in the tuning process that removes these possible myths that may occur?
You will be fine with the GAP tuned Remington triggers. They work just fine.
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If a tuned remy can reach 2.5 lbs and remain consistent and reliable and also attached to GAP's solid reputation with the main purpose
for hunting. Although a rifle of this quality will definitely get me venturing into punching paper out to 1000 yards. When the comfy level sets in It will see critters drop at any given yardage. Why drop the extra coin on a jewll? Personal opinion and preferences are the common answer. Ive never had a Timney or Jewll. Just tuned factory triggers. Ive dry fired a jewl and it was sweet at. 1.5 lbs but a narrow feel. Im not sure Id be comfy hunting with such a light setting.
for hunting. Although a rifle of this quality will definitely get me venturing into punching paper out to 1000 yards. When the comfy level sets in It will see critters drop at any given yardage. Why drop the extra coin on a jewll? Personal opinion and preferences are the common answer. Ive never had a Timney or Jewll. Just tuned factory triggers. Ive dry fired a jewl and it was sweet at. 1.5 lbs but a narrow feel. Im not sure Id be comfy hunting with such a light setting.
For those of you pointing with the Whidden die, how much are you pointing the Berger VLD? 130 or 140? I just got mine set up and it seems that .040" is right on the edge before the bullet starts to bulge at the base of the point. Is that ball park for as far as you all are pointing? Thanks.
Regardless, would be interested in hearing any thoughts on this as well (BDL vs Magazines feeding).
We have our own, Mag Box, Follower, and BDL type bottom metal just for WSM/SAUM its alot wider/longer than a Remington Setup. 3.015 OAL on the box. Its feeds like a dream. Ill post some picks up tomorrow of our Setup. Big #10 has this setup and its already sitting next to my desk.
All the xtremes in this forum seem to have the same size mag. How many 6.5 SAUM rounds fit in these mags? Is there a shallower/flush mag option available ?
Hey George - do you suppose H1000 in a 6.5 Rem mag case, using 130-140 weight bullets and built on a 700 LA, would give the same barrel life as you're getting with the 6.5 SAUM using that powder? Case capacity is pretty close to the same, with the Rem mag case being just a tad larger.
Thanks!
Thanks!
I have read this whole thread and it is fantastic; thanks guys! I was wondering if anybody has used the Barnes TTSX or LRX bullets in the 6.5 SAUM? I know they don't have quite as good of a BC, but for moderate ranges would that be much of an issue?
Contact Mike Lucas for a good bore guide for the SAUM. He'll make one for your action and rod you choose to use. I was referred to his bore guides a long time ago and have not looked back since ordering the first one. Very well made
Alan
This also intrests me. I'm not a big fan of the tsx from past experience but the newer TTSX and LRX have got great reviews even though BC is lower. Unfortunately I see Oregon eventually going all copper like California. I dont agree with their logic on birds dieing from animal cut piles with lead bullet remains inside. What are those odds??? I would much rather shoot Bergs but might be restricted someday. I would be curious about the amount of powder needed for a LRX or TTSX to keep up with a Berg VLD but remain low pressure to where the SAUM shines
Here are a few Pictures of our SAUM BDL setup. Box is Stainless stell as well as the follower, OAL is 3.015 It holds 3 down with room to spare so the first round strips easy, feeding and reliability is perfect.
This will only fit and work in our Templar hunter action as the cuts in the bottom are opened and optimized for this box, It will not fit in a Remington 700 without major modifications.
These are available on all Customs in SAUM and WSM And RCM and Is the Standard on our Non-Typical Hunter. This could be ordered as a custom option on the extreme hunter as well.
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Here are a few Pictures of our SAUM BDL setup. Box is Stainless stell as well as the follower, OAL is 3.015 It holds 3 down with room to spare so the first round strips easy, feeding and reliability is perfect.
This will only fit and work in our Templar hunter action as the cuts in the bottom are opened and optimized for this box, It will not fit in a Remington 700 without major modifications.
These are available on all Customs in SAUM and WSM And RCM and Is the Standard on our Non-Typical Hunter. This could be ordered as a custom option on the extreme hunter as well.
Thanks for the pictures and explanation. The GAP craftsmanship ALWAYS looks excellent. Does GAP offer a shallower/flush 3-4 round mag in the Manners SL / 6.5 SAUM ? All the Extreme Hunter pictures I've seen appear to have deeper/extended mags.
No such animal, The mags shown only hold 4. and most guns, the bolt wont ride over the top if 4 are loaded so you have 3 in the mag in the rifle and 4 in the mag in your pocket. There are also 7 and 10 round mags available but they stick out further.
Whats your issue with the Mag sticking out the bottom 1.5" its at the same point as the trigger bow which has to stick out????
Hey I have a question for any of you that are using 300 Saum brass. I turned my necks down .250" from the top of the brass and I'm wondering if its going to chamber or if I should go down further. The overall length of the brass right now is 2.015" I'm concerned that the shoulder neck junction is going to cause it to not chamber, but I'm afraid to go much deeper since I don't want to cut the neck all the way off. Any help with that would be appreciated.
Thanks
Thanks
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Thanks, I have his for all my other rigs/calibers but I was just curious if GAP had something else. Called Mike and ordered it today.
Well I guess ive never looked a it that way as it doesn't stick past the trigger. All my rifles have been hinged. So Id just assume for carrying / hunting purposes the" flush" would serve me better.I seem to carry my rifles at that location often. Although I do want the mag system I was curious if there was a "sleeker" design available. Either way the GAP rifles are a very sweet package inside and out and most importantly down range. Thanks to you , Manners and this forum for answering basically all my questions. Just a few cost questions via D and I will soon be a GAP owner enjoying some Gnats Ass. Exciting, thank you all.
Well I guess ive never looked a it that way as it doesn't stick past the trigger. All my rifles have been hinged. So Id just assume for carrying / hunting purposes the" flush" would serve me better.I seem to carry my rifles at that location often. Although I do want the mag system I was curious if there was a "sleeker" design available. Either way the GAP rifles are a very sweet package inside and out and most importantly down range. Thanks to you , Manners and this forum for answering basically all my questions. Just a few cost questions via D and I will soon be a GAP owner enjoying some Gnats Ass. Exciting, thank you all.
You will like it with either Setup.
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New GAP Extreme Hunter in 6.5 SAUM
FWIW I had a non typical 7WSM with BDL bottom metal. When rounds were loaded out to 2.93 they would nose up and not feed reliably every time (cycling rounds through rifle). With my 260 non typical I went with Pat's advice and got the M5 bottom metal (since changed out to APA) with AICS mags and have had 100% reliable feeding of every single round.
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FWIW I had a non typical 7WSM with BDL bottom metal. When rounds were loaded out to 2.93 they would nose up and not feed reliably every time (cycling rounds through rifle). With my 260 non typical I went with Pat's advice and got the M5 bottom metal (since changed out to APA) with AICS mags and have had 100% reliable feeding of every single round.
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I most certainly have full confidence in a GAP rifle even before owning one. How many 7wsm rds fit in the BDL ? So you're experience says short fat case cycle "better" in a mag then a BDL.
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Well I thought it may have been a silly question but I have never owned or cycled a wsm rifle. I figured the short fat case would restrict rifles from holding 4 rounds. Although I've only needed a 3rd round once during hunting. All 425 yard elk hits but the 165 TSX went right through without providing a decent wound channel. 1st shot may or may not have put him down but if I have a clean shot and he was still standing I wasn't gonna stop shooting . The one animal I hit 3 times and it runs the farthest .....about 100 yards , go figure. Still filled the freezer though. I just wasn't pleased with bullet performance and that was the end to my TSX usage. Either way I still think a higher capacity Mag ( 4rds) is a better set up when purchasing/building a SAUM. I guess I will adapt to a new carrying/ balancing method while in the field. All my rifles have been BDL. New rifle , always exciting !!
What year was your BDL Non typical delivered, this system is about a year old and fixed issues with the older Remington style we used to use with a Wyatt Box.
I bet you had the old system
If thats the case you had the old system, The New one is totally different and designed for a WSM/SAUM only
That's what I intend to do. Maybe 3-4 loaded mags just in case zombies are out , LOL
Hows the mag release on the Xtreme hunter ? Any accidental mag released ?
Alpine
I assume your using redding bushings in your dies? They have a large bevel that doesn't size about .050 of the neck. What I do is size the 300 case with a .314 redding bushing to 7mm. Then I resize it in a standard full length 7saum sizing die and that sizes the whole neck including the .050 the redding bushing didn't size. Then I use a .294 redding bushing to bring it to 6.5mm. After that I size again with a .293 Wilson bushing in my redding die. The Wilson bushings have a smaller bevel so it sizes more of the neck. You can also use a .310-.313 Wilson bushing in place of the 7mm standard full length sizing that I do. Then I run it through my Sinclair mandrel and turn my necks to .016 instead of .015. I like to keep my necks as thick as possible. This gives me a .295 loaded neck with a Berger VLD which is perfect for the .298 no turn reamer. So once the 6.5 4s brass is available I won't have to change reamers or neck turn anymore. Others may do it different but this is my way and it works great for me. I had the same issues as you in the beginning but this method gets rid of that bulge that the redding bushings leave. The reddings are the best for sizing down but the area left by the radical bevel can be an issue when neck turning. Using a redding bushing on 7mm brass necking down to 6.5 is not an issue like coming down from 300 to 6.5 using them. Hope this helps.
Darren
I assume your using redding bushings in your dies? They have a large bevel that doesn't size about .050 of the neck. What I do is size the 300 case with a .314 redding bushing to 7mm. Then I resize it in a standard full length 7saum sizing die and that sizes the whole neck including the .050 the redding bushing didn't size. Then I use a .294 redding bushing to bring it to 6.5mm. After that I size again with a .293 Wilson bushing in my redding die. The Wilson bushings have a smaller bevel so it sizes more of the neck. You can also use a .310-.313 Wilson bushing in place of the 7mm standard full length sizing that I do. Then I run it through my Sinclair mandrel and turn my necks to .016 instead of .015. I like to keep my necks as thick as possible. This gives me a .295 loaded neck with a Berger VLD which is perfect for the .298 no turn reamer. So once the 6.5 4s brass is available I won't have to change reamers or neck turn anymore. Others may do it different but this is my way and it works great for me. I had the same issues as you in the beginning but this method gets rid of that bulge that the redding bushings leave. The reddings are the best for sizing down but the area left by the radical bevel can be an issue when neck turning. Using a redding bushing on 7mm brass necking down to 6.5 is not an issue like coming down from 300 to 6.5 using them. Hope this helps.
Darren
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George,
I think you're right. I bought it used so don't know what year it was bought. I'm not bashing it, just reflecting on the good reasons that Pat advised me on.
The mag release is integrel with the trigger guard, and won't snag on clothing, packs, brush, etc. I've not had an accidental mag drop, and haven't had a single feeding snafu with this system. It's pretty much bombproof from what I've seen.
The mag release is integrel with the trigger guard, and won't snag on clothing, packs, brush, etc. I've not had an accidental mag drop, and haven't had a single feeding snafu with this system. It's pretty much bombproof from what I've seen.
That's awesome. Sleek perfectly fit and function. Sweet looking rifle . Thanks for the continued information. Its very much appreciated.
Thanks Darren. I'm using Redding bushing dies but I have the neck turn reamer. If someone that is using 300 saum brass could measure the overall length of the brass then measure the length from the top of the case to where they stopped turning the neck that would help me. My action is at the smith getting the barrel chambered and should be done next week, so just working on the last few things to get this rifle ready to go.
Thanks
Alpine
Just stop at the unsized part of the neck and/or trim about .001 into it. When you get your rifle see if they chamber. If so, they will fire form into shape. If they don't then you can size the necks further down using a Wilson bushing. I have never tried to chamber one with the false shoulder created by the redding bushings and it might not be an issue, but I just prefer neck sizing as close to the original shoulder as possible. I have neck turned deep (.285 from the case mouth) into the unsized false shoulder to get the neck/shoulder junction back to where it originally was on a 2.015 length case, that was sized only using redding bushings. I cut the cases open and found my necks to be .005-.007 thick from the junction to about .020-.030 up the neck. So, I'd be careful about getting to deep into the shoulder that is left by the redding bushings. As I mentioned here and in a previous post, coming behind the redding bushings with Wilson bushings will size the necks .020 or so closer to the original shoulder. Which helps from having tight brass on the first chambering or thin necks.
Darren
Just stop at the unsized part of the neck and/or trim about .001 into it. When you get your rifle see if they chamber. If so, they will fire form into shape. If they don't then you can size the necks further down using a Wilson bushing. I have never tried to chamber one with the false shoulder created by the redding bushings and it might not be an issue, but I just prefer neck sizing as close to the original shoulder as possible. I have neck turned deep (.285 from the case mouth) into the unsized false shoulder to get the neck/shoulder junction back to where it originally was on a 2.015 length case, that was sized only using redding bushings. I cut the cases open and found my necks to be .005-.007 thick from the junction to about .020-.030 up the neck. So, I'd be careful about getting to deep into the shoulder that is left by the redding bushings. As I mentioned here and in a previous post, coming behind the redding bushings with Wilson bushings will size the necks .020 or so closer to the original shoulder. Which helps from having tight brass on the first chambering or thin necks.
Darren
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I always turn into the shoulder on all my rigs I turn for, 260,7WSM,308 and have never had issues. this keeps the dreaded "donut" from forming. I got my first 50 300 SAUM from Josh at CC and he does the same. When I did mine I did it in 5 steps to get to 6.5 and used a 7 SAUM comp neck die so it sizes all the way down to the shoulder.
This is copied from a email sent from Josh
We step 300 to 7mm then step down with a .300 bushing then a .293 bushing, we then expand the brass to a .263 internal diameter to ensure perfect fit on our neck turning machine. then we turn the neck to a perfect .015" neck wall thickness.
Neck turning was the last thing he did.
Luckily I have some Norma brass that Josh has done all the work too, but I will have a go at making my own once I establish that the caliber-rifle is worth the investment.
We step 300 to 7mm then step down with a .300 bushing then a .293 bushing, we then expand the brass to a .263 internal diameter to ensure perfect fit on our neck turning machine. then we turn the neck to a perfect .015" neck wall thickness.
Neck turning was the last thing he did.
Luckily I have some Norma brass that Josh has done all the work too, but I will have a go at making my own once I establish that the caliber-rifle is worth the investment.
Graf and Sons just got a shipment of Redding .291 titanium bushings. They are in stock for anyone who might be looking.
Darren
Darren
Just reposting with the original quote, sorry I'm a newby:
Well, when you get yours you will have to try the TTSX and LRX out and post your findings here
Im most certainly going to start with the Bergs as suggested by the pros. I will see how they perform. Each rifle is different but odds are Most likely flawless from a GAP. No need to try less BC bullets if the Bergs are proven to bang flop.
Im not sure how close the LRX BC is though but nothing beats a Berg. Its all about placement. A well placed .243 is by far better than a .340 gut shot.
Ive been shooting the JLK 140 and 130gr bullets out of my 6.5 4S for a couple weeks now. I am really impressed. Their performance is a little flatter then Berger and they group extremely tight. Will post pics shortly.
I believe I read somewhere in this thread that some fellas preferred the Remington brass as opposed to the Norma brass.. Why is that? Also, has anyone tried the 136 Scenars?? If so, how did they perform?
Thanks,
Bob
Thanks,
Bob
I heard that as well, I think it's because the Norma is softer and the pockets go away quicker and also they have "slightly" less case capacity. But.... that's what I'm going to use to start with until George get his brass deal going later this year (I hope). Norma makes some darn good brass and the stuff I have spec's out very well. To each there own and the cookie cutter load I don't think works for all since each barrel is different, it's just narrowed down to a VERY good place to start and shouldn't take long to have a pet load.
Ready to go Remington 6.5 4s brass from Copper Creek is less expensive. . Remington brass is recommended on this site multiple times by experienced users. Seems like a win/win to me. Remington it shall be
................................................. I'm new to reloading , my comments don't count LOL
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JLK claims .630BC with 140VLD and .620BC with 130VLD. Thats more than Berg claims. Any experience on critters with JLK? I haven't read much or seen much about the JLK's. Although I have never attended a Long range event..........yet
My testing shows .600 for the 130gr JLK's. They are very accurate and kill exactly like the 130gr Berger Hunting VLD's.
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