New GAP Extreme Hunter in 6.5 SAUM

[ROCKer]

Just recieved my NEW GAP 6.5 SAUM (Salami) !!

I just got my new 6.5 SAUM in today and can't wait to get to the range. It's built on a Manners T4 90%, Badger Mag, Templar, Vias brake, 25" PSS Contour Barrel, Fluted, and coated FDE. Brandon@Custom Gun Coating gave her a custom digital from a hat that I had. Gun weighs 9.2 lbs without scope, rings, and bipod. I've got several boxes of 130 Hunting VLDs from Copper Creek that are ready to be fired down range.

Thanks George@GAP for an awesome rifle and I hope we get to shoot it at K&M.

The whitetails in Mississippi are already shaking! It's going to be a long summer.

 

[JCH]

^^^ nobody likes you

 

[bward]

Im back in town and unthawed, the Icebreaker was a great time as usual. The Xtreme Hunter is just at its debut, Im not one to just throw a product at guys without a year of testing. Yes I have over 3400 rounds on my rifle now and its still shooting sub 1/2" Bryan Yeung on Team GAP shot one to 2800 and it was still in the 1/2 " range. This is proven. Its not a real secret its about Pressure!! The 308 runs at at pressures of 53000-58000 PSI I wanted to find a case that would make 3100 with a High BC Bullet at that same low low pressure. The Saum was wat we landed at with lots of testing. With a 140 JLK I could get 3080 FPS with only 53000 PSI I shot this load for a year, guys there are many to witness, I shot this at Lonestar, Snipershide Cup, PTS, Maammoth, and Nor-Cal I shot this at last years IceBreaker, and this years as well , with alot of practice in between, all on the same original Barrel. It still shoots great. The same load is now 3020 but with 63 grains of H1000 and the 130 Berger im getting 3180 in this same warn out Rifle with that group at 1157 to prove it still has some life. Guys this is Legit its about pressure!!!! This cartridge is Game Changing and the Xtreme Hunter is the only rifle a Guy needs in N America.

2 guys now have commented after shooting one. both Quotes were Identical!!! " This is the Deadliest rifle Ive ever shot"!!! Both guys are far from Amateur!

George,
Has the 3,000 round barrel been set back? If so how many times?

 

[Sendero_Man]

bward,

I don't think it has been set back at all. I might be wrong, but no mention was ever made of it in MT. Think it is still running the original chambering.

 

[SFree]

Sendero Man,
How are the Vias brakes treatin you? Had one on a 7 WSM and was nice, didn't really worry about the dust signature and was fairly quiet... considering. Would you consider another brake at this point?

 

[Sendero_Man]

Very effective for sure. Only draw back I see is the dust coming up if the wind is in your face. Other than that, no problems.

Side port brakes wind is not an issue. I think the Vias rocks though and was basically the best option for that small of a contour of barrel. No regrets !

 

[Striker]

What diameter does that pipe measure at the muzzle? Really digging that profile (and weight). Beats the hell out of my 16 pounder

I just got my new 6.5 SAUM in today and can't wait to get to the range. It's built on a Manners T4 90%, Badger Mag, Templar, Vias brake, 25" PSS Contour Barrel, Fluted, and coated FDE. Brandon@Custom Gun Coating gave her a custom digital from a hat that I had. Gun weighs 9.2 lbs without scope, rings, and bipod. I've got several boxes of 130 Hunting VLDs from Copper Creek that are ready to be fired down range.

Thanks George@GAP for an awesome rifle and I hope we get to shoot it at K&M.

The whitetails in Mississippi are already shaking! It's going to be a long summer.

 

[KYS]

George,
Has the 3,000 round barrel been set back? If so how many times?

He has set it back once if I am remembering our conversation correctly. And he is approaching 3500 rounds.

 

[bward]

He has set it back once if I am remembering our conversation correctly. And he is approaching 3500 rounds.

Thanks Adam. That makes a lot more sense. Probably should have been included with the initial round count.

 

[JCH]

Thanks Adam. That makes a lot more sense. Probably should have been included with the initial round count.

+1............

 

[zmann]

Is there a lighter stock from Manners that would still work with the above 25" PSS Contour Barrel ? What's the largest contour the SL & Manners T stock would fit?

 

[KLin]

Is there a lighter stock from Manners that would still work with the above 25" PSS Contour Barrel ? What's the largest contour the SL & Manners T stock would fit?

Bartlein Barrels, Inc. - Contours

SL: Bartlein #4

T: Bartlein #14 M40/M24, probably squeeze an MTU/AMU but I'd leave that question to Tom.

Hunting Stocks | Manners Composite Stocks

Manners released a series of hunting stocks this year: Hunting Stocks | Manners Composite Stocks

if you want heavier bbl, go with one of the squared or beaver-tailed forearms.

 

[KYS]

Is there a lighter stock from Manners that would still work with the above 25" PSS Contour Barrel ? What's the largest contour the SL & Manners T stock would fit?

Go with a Carbon fill stock. By why go with a light stock and really heavy barrel? The heaviest I would run is a #14 Bartlein with heavy flutes. They always balance nicely.

 

[Sendero_Man]

loving the SL stock..... great from all positions I have shot it from.

Heavier barreled, I'd look at T4 or T5 .... the A models are the tops !

 

[Sendero_Man]

PM's Back on the Brass.

 

[Freeze]

Brass is the about an hour and a half away so I am gonna make a run up there to grab it as well as some other business hopefully this week. It's all on hold for me as do some gun work for the shop. Anyways I will have at least 6, 50 piece bags up sendero gets some and zmann gets some so depending on what they want I will let you know if their is more up for grabs. Should be able to swing it for normal stor price as well and then just cost of shipping as well. Let you know when it's in and I will keep my eyes open for more.

 

[bbcellars]

Midway had some Nosler 7SAUM brass in stock a few days ago. I picked up the max 20 boxes...they had them in boxes of 25...they weren't cheap, but I couldn't find the brass anywhere else....

 

[Freeze]

K, so I got 6 bags of 50 from kinda local gun store (1.5 hours away) up for grabs.(2 are spoken for and not looking to make money or anything on these, just trying to help out so pm me if your interested)

 

[wegner426]

So what is the advantage of making this 6.5 cartridge from SAUM brass instead of 7MM WSM brass? I understand the SAUM brass is known to have longer necks compared to WSM, any other advantages? Seems like 7WSM brass is easier to come up with.

 

[Huckleberry75]

Any one have the pro's/con's on this versus a 6.5wsm?? Curious to see any comparison.

 

[bward]

The only advantage would be the same as it is in the 7's, the RSAUM's fit in a short action mag much better. With the WSM's you are shoving the bullet deep down in the case.

 

[DDoug]

Powder Valley also has Nossler 7 saum brass in stock but as mentioned a little pricey. Also saw that Cabelas had 300 saum RP in stock.

 

[T J]

Any one have the pro's/con's on this versus a 6.5wsm?? Curious to see any comparison.

I have the 6.5WSM. From what i'm reading here & other places there are pro's & con's on both sides. The WSM gets you Norma brass, faster muzzle velocity, longer OAL & much shorter barrel life With the 130grn Cutting Edge G05 i'm using, my coal is over 3.100 IIRC, which makes running them from a magazine all but impossible. I had Chad put a single shot follower in mine as I didn't even want to prick with trying to get a mag to work.

The SAUM seems to last longer, feed from mags better & still offer damn good performance. I can't really get into the performance differences as my setup is WAY different than these gents are running. I'm running a 16lb rig with 29-30" bbl, which is close enough to apples & oranges to make ballistic comparisons just about worthless IMHO.

Either way, brass is still a cork-soaker to find for either, performance is bad-to-the-bone & the critters can run but they can't hide from a badazz 6.5



t

 

[zmann]

K, so I got 6 bags of 50 from kinda local gun store (1.5 hours away) up for grabs.(2 are spoken for and not looking to make money or anything on these, just trying to help out so pm me if your interested)

Freeze,

Let me know what shipping is on 2 bags to 66224. Ready when you are.

 

[JCH]

The SAUM seems to last longer, feed from mags better & still offer damn good performance.

I'm going to have to question this. I'm sorry. George said he got 3k rounds out of his 6.5 but didn't mention he has set the barrel back at least one time. I think if the 6.5wsm is run at the same pressures using H1000 then barrel life is going to be quite comparable to the 6.5saum. I get the fact that the saum has a longer neck but I don't see how that makes it have twice the barrel life.

Also for those wanting to do a 6.5wsm (6.5-300wsm) you can't use 7wsm brass as it is longer than the 270wsm and 300wsm that the cartridge is based off of.

 

[T J]

I'm going to have to question this. I'm sorry. George said he got 3k rounds out of his 6.5 but didn't mention he has set the barrel back at least one time. I think if the 6.5wsm is run at the same pressures using H1000 then barrel life is going to be quite comparable to the 6.5saum. I get the fact that the saum has a longer neck but I don't see how that makes it have twice the barrel life.

Also for those wanting to do a 6.5wsm (6.5-300wsm) you can't use 7wsm brass as it is longer than the 270wsm and 300wsm that the cartridge is based off of.

Which is why I tried not to state any specific performance/life differences. I have no intention of running the relatively low pressures the GAP crew is running, which hinders any usable comparisons we can do. I didn't build a GT-500 to run at GT-350 speeds The way the GAP crew is setup & running with the longer neck, lower powder capacity & lower pressure (i'm also running a double based powder) their throats will last longer than mine. How much is anyone's guess.

I can't think of a good way to objectively compare the two with out creating a "kids in the sandbox" type of debate.

Long Story Short:

The WSM is faster (but how much?)
The SAUM will last longer (but how much?)

^^^ That is where I believe the subject will turn from objective to subjective.


t

 

[JCH]

Well said TJ. I agree completely.

 

[KYS]

Barrel life on the 6.5 WSM run at its capable speeds is 500 rounds (approximately)
Barrel life of the 6.5 SAUM is easily triple that before a set back.

The WSM is smoked at 500 rounds, there is no setting it back.

Running them to their potential that they were designed for, of course.

 

[JCH]

Sorry, gonna call BS on that one. If they both are run at their potential there is no way the 6.5saum is triple the barrel life, keep drinking the Kool-aid.

 

[donovan]

Barrel life on the 6.5 WSM run at its capable speeds is 500 rounds (approximately)
Barrel life of the 6.5 SAUM is easily triple that before a set back.

The WSM is smoked at 500 rounds, there is no setting it back.

Running them to their potential that they were designed for, of course.

This round if I read the thread right is about this 6.5 saum being ran at lower pressure thus the barrel life gain , never did I see anybody metion running it at its full potential. Using a slower powder at lower pressure

 

[Huckleberry75]

Now I am not taking sides here, just trying to get a little better educated.

If the 6.5 SAUM is run at lower pressures (than perspective book max) with the H1000 and experiecing good (respectively) barrel life, couldn't you also run the 6.5 wsm in the same manner and see similar results with H1000 and 130 vld's or 140 amax/vld's? Again, not trying to start a cat fight, just trying to get better educated on both before I plunk down my hard earned (read: rat holed from the ol' lady's prying eyes) money.

I am not intimately familar with either cartridge. Do these cases have the same water volume capacity etc? I know the wsm neck is a tad shorter than SAUM's, and I have google-fu'd the case capacity of the wsm @ 77.8gr. I can't find any capacity of the saum.

 

[Scotty22]

Well I have no load data for y'all yet but I will soon my 6.5saum is about complete. I will be shooting the 140 Berger hybrids using H-1000 and trying reloader 33 (possibly if I can find it). Any how here is a pic teaser pic

 

[T J]

Sorry, gonna call BS on that one. If they both are run at their potential there is no way the 6.5saum is triple the barrel life, keep drinking the Kool-aid.

I don't know how it could be, if both are running at full speed. The SAUM life will be better; but by how much? Doesn't the guy from Copper Creek have good experience with both?

...
If the 6.5 SAUM is run at lower pressures (than perspective book max) with the H1000 and experiecing good (respectively) barrel life, couldn't you also run the 6.5 wsm in the same manner and see similar results with H1000 and 130 vld's or 140 amax/vld's? .....

My belief is that yes, you could extend the life of a 6.5WSM by backing down the charge weight & velocites from wild to mild; but what's the point in that?


t

 

[Huckleberry75]

I don't know how it could be, if both are running at full speed. The SAUM life will be better; but by how much? Doesn't the guy from Copper Creek have good experience with both?





My belief is that yes, you could extend the life of a 6.5WSM by backing down the charge weight & velocites from wild to mild; but what's the point in that? t

I hear you clucking. I am looking for a lightwieght flat hunting rig, but a deer/lope/elk wont know the difference between 3400 & 3200, so I woudl run it a tad milder to extend bbl life. Although I understand that bbls are a consumable product, that doesn't mean that I have to set it on fire just because I can.

I would be curious to hear what Josh at Copper Creek has to say.

 

[T J]

I hear you clucking. I am looking for a lightwieght flat hunting rig, but a deer/lope/elk wont know the difference between 3400 & 3200, so I woudl run it a tad milder to extend bbl life. Although I understand that bbls are a consumable product, that doesn't mean that I have to set it on fire just because I can.

I would be curious to hear what Josh at Copper Creek has to say.

I was kinda hoping Josh (I'd forgotten his name) would jump in.

My WSM is a hunting rig first & foremost. For the "one rifle for everything" type of guy, I would definitely NOT recommend the WSM. For the guys that hold perfomance above all other characteristics (& doesn't mind torching a throat) very few short actions can compete with that. I'm a performance guy Your right, the cirtters won't know the difference in speed, but the wind will. It might be a little or it might be a lot, but there is a difference.

Whether or not it's worth it, is up to the individual.


t

 

[CopperCreekAmmo]

I hear my name.......

The claim about the SAUM barrel life is accurate, it is putting up barrel life over 3k....I have personally around 2500+/- on mine and still going strong, and i by no means baby it (3 matches under its belt and 2 more in the next 5 weeks). I have some brass with 8-9 firings on them with one anneal.

That said. Please allow me to end the internet banter over the WSM vs SAUM debate.

THE SAUM IS THE CLEAR WINNER. Seriously...

I have owned both calibers. I personally smoked a 6.5 wsm barrel at 450 rounds shooting 142 SMKS at 3200fps. Now i have been running both 140 and 130 berger in my SAUM and the throat looks very clean with only about .050" growth. This caliber works. As George has stated its all about low pressures.

 

[JCH]

How many times have you set back your barrel?

when you were running the WSM were you running it all out or were you reducing the load like George is doing using H1000 and a low pressure load?

So you are saying that magically the 6.5SAUM gets SIX TIMES the barrel life of the 6.5 WSM? sorry still calling BULLSHIT. I don't believe it for a second.

 

[CopperCreekAmmo]

How many times have you set back your barrel?

when you were running the WSM were you running it all out or were you reducing the load like George is doing using H1000 and a low pressure load?

So you are saying that magically the 6.5SAUM gets SIX TIMES the barrel life of the 6.5 WSM? sorry still calling BULLSHIT. I don't believe it for a second.

By all means instead of taking my word, try it for yourself. spending hours on the hide doesnt get the rounds down the bar

 

[JCH]

How many times have you set back your barrel?

when you were running the WSM were you running it all out or were you reducing the load like George is doing using H1000 and a low pressure load?

So you are saying that magically the 6.5SAUM gets SIX TIMES the barrel life of the 6.5 WSM? sorry still calling BULLSHIT. I don't believe it for a second.

Didn't answer my questions.

I'm not saying that the 6.5 wsm is going to get 3,000 rounds, but I don't believe for one second that the SAUM is getting 3k without ANY barrel setback. Those details were conveniently unmentioned in others posts.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that similar cartridges run at similar pressures will get similar barrel life. Sure the SAUM may have longer barrel life everytime but not 6 times greater barrel life, and not twice the barrel life. Sorry I guess I just don't automatically swallow the kool-aid that makes me take everything on the internet as gospel when it comes out of certain peoples mouths

 

[CopperCreekAmmo]

Didn't answer my questions.

I'm not saying that the 6.5 wsm is going to get 3,000 rounds, but I don't believe for one second that the SAUM is getting 3k without ANY barrel setback. Those details were conveniently unmentioned in others posts.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that similar cartridges run at similar pressures will get similar barrel life. Sure the SAUM may have longer barrel life everytime but not 6 times greater barrel life, and not twice the barrel life. Sorry I guess I just don't automatically swallow the kool-aid that makes me take everything on the internet as gospel when it comes out of certain peoples mouths

My apologies for neglecting the questions.

No my barrel has not been set back, I will explore that option after the Score Hi match in June.

The wsm was run with H4350 and Reloader 17, Not the H1000 we are using here. I shot it for a total of 975 rounds. From 450 to the end it was extremely sporadic and would throw rounds like any barrel at the end would. I agree that in the beginning i too didnt think the SAUM would do the trick after what i had just had with the WSM but here i am 14 months later telling you my actual experiences.

The WSM lasted 450 rounds, I have over 2500 on the saum
The WSM fed like SHIT!, the SAUM has zero issues, With AICS mags, Accurate Mages, Or Alpha Mags
The WSM throat was scorched and smoothbore, the SAUM simply isnt....

I am not telling you that you cant downplay a WSM and test the theory, What i am telling you is the SAUM works. There are 3 shooters in the country with well over 2k rounds on their guns. There are now dozens of new shooters who are getting their feet wet with the 65 RSAUM and are mesmerized by its abilities. It is truly an exceptional round and Instead of arguing in this thread I invite you to try it out.

 

[Capt Academy]

Nice looking rifles!

 

[JCH]

My apologies for neglecting the questions.

No my barrel has not been set back, I will explore that option after the Score Hi match in June.

The wsm was run with H4350 and Reloader 17, Not the H1000 we are using here. I shot it for a total of 975 rounds. From 450 to the end it was extremely sporadic and would throw rounds like any barrel at the end would. I agree that in the beginning i too didnt think the SAUM would do the trick after what i had just had with the WSM but here i am 14 months later telling you my actual experiences.

The WSM lasted 450 rounds, I have over 2500 on the saum
The WSM fed like SHIT!, the SAUM has zero issues, With AICS mags, Accurate Mages, Or Alpha Mags
The WSM throat was scorched and smoothbore, the SAUM simply isnt....

I am not telling you that you cant downplay a WSM and test the theory, What i am telling you is the SAUM works. There are 3 shooters in the country with well over 2k rounds on their guns. There are now dozens of new shooters who are getting their feet wet with the 65 RSAUM and are mesmerized by its abilities. It is truly an exceptional round and Instead of arguing in this thread I invite you to try it out.

So you didn't run the wsm in the same manner as the saum and think that is a fair comparison?

 

[CopperCreekAmmo]

So you didn't run the wsm in the same manner as the saum and think that is a fair comparison?

That is Correct. However i welcome you to try the both in the same manner then see your results.

That said, One of the shooters did hot rod his SAUM and he got 2700 rounds on the barrel before it was replaced. So therefore he got 3X as many rounds on his SAUM than I did on my WSM. While i didnt personally test them the same, it has been tested.

Again for the sake of clarity I am Advising you to test both and experiment for yourself. This thread is simply informing everyone of a new caliber which is tested and works. You may call Bullshit all you want but facts are facts, this thing works and its being proven more everyday.

 

[CPGFAN]

I just got my 6.5 SAUM back from my smith. So far I love it! Built it on a pierce Sa with a 24" Mullerworks stick ( have a Brux on order but curiosity was killing me). Is bedded in a Mcmillian a3 Sporter with edge and with a 4.5-14x50 leupy it weighs in at 8 lbs 4 oz. so far it has shot everything under 5/8" and several groups under 1/2". I'm running Ramshot magnum with a Fed 215 and getting right at 3170 with a 140 JLK. I think I'm going to have to order a TI pierce and a gamescout w edge and build one super lightweight.

 

[JCH]

I'm done trying to get people to use reason. All I will say is I think there will be some unhappy people that don't see 3k rounds on their 6.5 SAUM and won't be happy.

I'm out.

 

[Huckleberry75]

Has anyone salt nitrided or mellonited their 6.5 saum or 6.5 wsm barrels and seen a different story? I would be curious to see how much difference these types of treatments make on perspective bbl life.

 

[Sendero_Man]

Said it once.. Say it again, barrels are like truck tires. Buy them when ya need them. I never passed on a truck I wanted cause I was worried I would have to buy tires for it someday !

 

[Dans40X]

Gents,
You guys are 7yrs + behind the times!
I've been shooting the 6.5 SAUM chambering pushing Sie155's,CRO147's & Cat 146's to spank the 6.5-284 chambering w/ ease.
Throwing caution to the wind-Berger VLD 140's are easily pushed to 3500fps.

The 6.5 SAUM chambering anchors Dall Sheep & Woodland Caribou where they stand.

 

[turbo54]

I'm done trying to get people to use reason. All I will say is I think there will be some unhappy people that don't see 3k rounds on their 6.5 SAUM and won't be happy.

I'm out.

I'm with you.

I buy the cool burning, low pressure H1000 concept.

I don't buy the concept that a couple grain decrease in case capacity is going to *monumentally* increase throat life, given equal pressures.

I'm having a hard time understanding the logic in drawing *any* conclusions from an apples-to-grapefuit comparison of a WSM hotrodded with well known throat torching powders (H4350 & RL17) and mild loads in the SAUM with a known throat-preserving powder like H1000.

 

[TRAAV]

I think im going to drink th e kool-aid and give one a go