Hunting & Fishing New Hunting Bullets Available

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

I'm still trying to figure out why the 170's bc isn't coming close to advertised in my rifle..
I weighed them and they aren't 170 grains they're 168, is this normal? Seems like they'd be called 168 Cayugas instead
Has anyone else (third party) tried these at LR to verify the bc?
If someone wants to try them out in an 8 twist and report back I'll give away the rest of mine for testing if shipping is covered.
I only have 16 left though

 

[Schw15]

I'm still trying to figure out why the 170's bc isn't coming close to advertised in my rifle..
I weighed them and they aren't 170 grains they're 168, is this normal? Seems like they'd be called 168 Cayugas instead
Has anyone else (third party) tried these at LR to verify the bc?
If someone wants to try them out in an 8 twist and report back I'll give away the rest of mine for testing if shipping is covered.
I only have 16 left though

Are you sure your barrel is a 8 twist? I would love to test them but i took my hunting barrel off already

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

Are you sure your barrel is a 8 twist? I would love to test them but i took my hunting barrel off already

Yep
Its a Benchmark match grade barrel.

 

[Schw15]

Yep
Its a Benchmark match grade barrel.

Have you had someone measure it just to check? Because that is weird. Did you say you had bullets turn sideways in a paper target?

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

Have you had someone measure it just to check? Because that is weird. Did you say you had bullets turn sideways in a paper target?

They looked a little oblong initially but I was shooting the target at an angle on my property.
I realigned and there were no abnormalities.
They grouped sub 1"@ 200 yards so accuracy was there.
I trust Benchmark they're top tier

 

[Schw15]

They looked a little oblong initially but I was shooting the target at an angle on my property.
I realigned and there were no abnormalities.
They grouped sub 1"@ 200 yards so accuracy was there.
I trust Benchmark they're top tier

Just trying to offer up some help maybe thinking something isnt right. Yes but people mislabel things might be worth a shot to try to get it measured just in case. Crazy things happen all the. But keep us updated with the barrel and if it shoots other 1-8 twist bullets good

 

[prwillard2]

I have a tight neck and i reach pressure faster than i should but i run the 151 at 3228 with imr 8133. But it hammers and i trust it. I do not trust berger bullets at all havent seen much good from them hunting wise but its limited but enough to scare me away. I really like these tough copper bullets and they open up great.

I've got an 8 pounder of IMR 8133 at home I'll need to test out. Can you give me your powder charge and COAL for a start point?

 

[Schw15]

Pm. And let us know

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

@bohem
Is this what the 170 cayuga is supposed to weigh??

 

[bohem]

@bohem
Is this what the 170 cayuga is supposed to weigh??
View attachment 7485903

The bullets vary across material lots. Material spec is only about 1%
168/170 is right about where thebspec lies from lot to lot. When we ship bullets we pack them inside of material lot.

If I post that they are 168s then 169s then 170.5s then 170s then 168.7s

Seems confusing doesn't it? That is why I don't. And we aren't going to change designs every lot of material to match a weight because that will affect how they load.

The 3rd party that shot them already was Cory Saxsma. A friend but not an internal test. He even used the bullets he paid for, I simply asked him to run the bullet out to 1000 to see what he got.

Have you track tested your scope? There are several common error forms in drop testing bullets and the most common one is the scope tracking.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

The bullets vary across material lots. Material spec is only about 1%
168/170 is right about where thebspec lies from lot to lot. When we ship bullets we pack them inside of material lot.

If I post that they are 168s then 169s then 170.5s then 170s then 168.7s

Seems confusing doesn't it? That is why I don't. And we aren't going to change designs every lot of material to match a weight because that will affect how they load.

The 3rd party that shot them already was Cory Saxsma. A friend but not an internal test. He even used the bullets he paid for, I simply asked him to run the bullet out to 1000 to see what he got.

Have you track tested your scope? There are several common error forms in drop testing bullets and the most common one is the scope tracking.

Interesting
I haven't shot many monos but Im used to bullets weighing as advertised, and the same from lot to lot.

I have not done a tall target test with my scope yet (nx8), but I've put over 100 rounds through it in the past 3 weeks from 700 to 1030 yards with 175 ablrs and Berger 195's.
Everything has added up perfectly on my vertical with the exception of the cayugas.

 

[bohem]

Interesting
I haven't shot many monos but Im used to bullets weighing as advertised, and the same from lot to lot.

I have not done a tall target test with my scope yet (nx8), but I've put over 100 rounds through it in the past 3 weeks from 700 to 1030 yards with 175 ablrs and Berger 195's.
Everything has added up perfectly on my vertical with the exception of the cayugas.

Remember that jacketed bullets have the luxury of adding or subtracting lead as needed to hit the target weight and the jacket is a very small portion of the overall bullet weight.

If you weigh the monolithic bullets in a lot the consistency is much tighter, typically +/- 0.03 to 0.05 grains in an entire batch

I dont know why your rifle doesn't come up on them, the other rifles they have been shot from do just fine.

But since you have such good luck with the other bullets and you don't like these then my suggestion would be to use something else. Several others are having very good results, why your rifle doesn't I can't say without seeing it and testing it. There isn't a lot of hard data provided for me to work with here.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

Remember that jacketed bullets have the luxury of adding or subtracting lead as needed to hit the target weight and the jacket is a very small portion of the overall bullet weight.

If you weigh the monolithic bullets in a lot the consistency is much tighter, typically +/- 0.03 to 0.05 grains in an entire batch

I dont know why your rifle doesn't come up on them, the other rifles they have been shot from do just fine.

But since you have such good luck with the other bullets and you don't like these then my suggestion would be to use something else. Several others are having very good results, why your rifle doesn't I can't say without seeing it and testing it. There isn't a lot of hard data provided for me to work with here.

Yep I'll stick with the 195's
Just bummed that the cayugas didn't work out and I'd like more user input on BC validation from other barrels.
FWIW
I weighed a bunch of mono bullets today and they were all within .2 grains of advertised weight.
This included two different boxes of Barnes 212 LRX, a bag of cutting edge 168 MTH 7mms, and a bag of 140 6.5 MTH bullets.

 

[Schw15]

Im.half tempted to try these to see what i get

 

[Butler12]

Josh,
Just a quick question do you think I could run the 257 Seneca in a 7.5 twist 25 PRC?

 

[Schw15]

Josh,
Just a quick question do you think I could run the 257 Seneca in a 7.5 twist 25 PRC?

I got a 25 prc coming from him and got the 7 twist he offers for the 120

 

[bohem]

Josh,
Just a quick question do you think I could run the 257 Seneca in a 7.5 twist 25 PRC?

Maybe, but I can't say yes for sure. If you're at higher altitude you may be able to run it fine.

 

[bohem]

Biggest bullet I can run in a 300wsm? I have one 1:12 twist barrel and one that is 1:10 twist.

The 12 twist would need the 163, man that would be screaming fast.
The 10 can use the 163 or the 178

I shoot the 178s from my 10tw 300WM with 75gr of Norma MRP in Hornady brass, loaded to 3.550

It hammers.

 

[bohem]

The Black Friday sale prices are live until tomorrow

"Thanksgiving2020!" cuts an additional 10% off

 

[Schw15]

The Black Friday sale prices are live until tomorrow

"Thanksgiving2020!" cuts an additional 10% off

Do that work on prefit barrels too?

 

[bohem]

Do that work on prefit barrels too?

No the prefit sale is over

 

[Schw15]

No the prefit sale is over

Just the bullets on sale?

 

[bohem]

Just the bullets on sale?

Bullets and brakes, what is left of them. A lot of stuff has sold out on the sale inventory. The bullets are almost all in stock as I have been running them virtually nonstop for the last 2 months getting ready for the sale

 

[Schw15]

Bullets and brakes, what is left of them. A lot of stuff has sold out on the sale inventory. The bullets are almost all in stock as I have been running them virtually nonstop for the last 2 months getting ready for the sale

Nice i think those bullets are gonna be a huge hit. Im excited to test the target 25 120. And we picked up the 6.5 and 270 hunting bullets

 

[CMP70306]

What speeds were you ever able to achieve in the 6.5 PRC? I did a quick ladder a few months back with StaBall 6.5 and got up to 3320 fps but got sidetracked on a different project and haven’t made it back around to test more.

 

[ohiofarmer]

What’s the explanation for the BC being revised down, a full .04, on the .224 Cayugas? It was listed at .520 when I purchased 250 of them on 12/1. Still waiting on USPS to deliver them one state away... but that’s a significant BC change for folks who ordered when it was listed significantly higher.

 

[bohem]

What’s the explanation for the BC being revised down, a full .04, on the .224 Cayugas? It was listed at .520 when I purchased 250 of them on 12/1. Still waiting on USPS to deliver them one state away... but that’s a significant BC change for folks who ordered when it was listed significantly higher.

Revised test data in ultra-cold weather. I publish the worst case BC. I suspect that the super cold conditions contributed to marginal stability which drove down the BC. If you're not shooting them in sub 10F temps near sea level you'll likely see the higher value originally published.

BTW, 0.04 is 7.6% and most bullet manufacturers trend towards 6% high across the board and won't revise the advertised values no matter what you tell them. I'm trying to put out the most up to date information I can. Under super cold temps a couple people have experienced a lower BC so I tested it more.

Just like the 170gr 7mm test above where a user was finding a notably lower BC so I sent some bullets to a guy who could test them again and the test yielded results that perfectly aligned with mine and there was no need to change the BC as published on those.

 

[ohiofarmer]

Much appreciated, bohem.

 

[1jonathan1994]

What happened to a competition 7mm?
Like 151 Seneca?

 

[Schw15]

What happened to a competition 7mm?
Like 151 Seneca?

He does make one.

 

[Schw15]

What happened to a competition 7mm?
Like 151 Seneca?

I misread your post. Yeah i got on there and its gone. Hopefully he gets on to say. I was thinking about running some

 

[bohem]

What happened to a competition 7mm?
Like 151 Seneca?

I haven't had the chance to make any in production. I've been so busy with things lately that I just haven't had the chance to get them into production and stack up some for the shelf.

 

[Schw15]

I haven't had the chance to make any in production. I've been so busy with things lately that I just haven't had the chance to get them into production and stack up some for the shelf.

Have you done anything with 7mm saum and your 151? Powders best for that combo? Im pretty much stuck with imr 8133 and imr 7977 any info helps

 

[bohem]

Have you done anything with 7mm saum and your 151? Powders best for that combo? Im pretty much stuck with imr 8133 and imr 7977 any info helps

Not with those powders. H4350 and RL26, the 26 was too slow to get the speed I wanted.

4350 was able to run a 151 over 3150 and that accomplished what I wanted. The rifle was a LA though.

 

[Schw15]

Not with those powders. H4350 and RL26, the 26 was too slow to get the speed I wanted.

4350 was able to run a 151 over 3150 and that accomplished what I wanted. The rifle was a LA though.

This is a long action also and barrel is throated long. Suggestions on start load with h4350 i think i might have 1 pound or half pound

 

[GMZ]

Hell yea was just going to ask this I’m making a 7 SAUM on a M70 I can load to 3.050 what was the coal?

 

[bohem]

This is a long action also and barrel is throated long. Suggestions on start load with h4350 i think i might have 1 pound or half pound

I don't remember, I used 150gr book data from the Hodgdon website

 

[Schw15]

I don't remember, I used 150gr book data from the Hodgdon websii

I don't remember, I used 150gr book data from the Hodgdon website

I will check that out. I might be better off running your 170 grain in that saum with the powders i have. Do you have those in stock?

 

[bohem]

Yep. Sure do

 

[Schw15]

Yep. Sure do

Awesome thank you.

 

[Schw15]

Yep. Sure do

Finally got them ordered 150 ct. Going to stretch them out to 1 mile and see what happens

 

[1jonathan1994]

I'm in no hurry, but what time frame for 151 Seneca to come back. I'm only after a box or two to try so don't tool up for me.

 

[bohem]

I'm in no hurry, but what time frame for 151 Seneca to come back. I'm only after a box or two to try so don't tool up for me.

I'm not sure right now. I'm working on knocking out the rest of the backlog from the Black Friday sale on barrels and other parts. We made thousands of the other bullets so that those are in stock but the 7mm match bullets aren't something that sold much of as I think people were turned off by what they considered "too light". I want to setup and run 151's at the same time that I run off some 8tw bullets for the heavier, faster twist guns. I'm at the shop right now with 3 spindles going overnight...

 

[1jonathan1994]

I've been toying with it, worked some on a mid 160's class that would be for 8tw barrels
Going heavier than that means abnormally fast barrels like 7tw 7mm, which I've seen work great but not with standard barrels.

I would like to expand the big 7s like we did with the big 30's for guys that want to live adventerously. I absolutely love shooting the 300WSM with 241's in it and watching jaws drop when it stacks impacts at 2000yd.

The longest bullet I can use ogive to tip is the 180 hybrid 7mm.
If your 16x 7mm is similar I'll get a case for for chance of 0.4xx BC at 2850fps.
Otherwise I'm just waiting on your next batch of 151s.

 

[Schw15]

The longest bullet I can use ogive to tip is the 180 hybrid 7mm.
If your 16x 7mm is similar I'll get a case for for chance of 0.4xx BC at 2850fps.
Otherwise I'm just waiting on your next batch of 151s.

I second a 160 to 165 grain high bc 7mm bullet. That would be great. I started load work with the 170 and going to be a pretty awesome bullet. I tested to 888 yards and bc seemed pretty good at .370

 

[Painless300]

What is the best way to measure seating depth? Ogive or total cartridge length for the Cayuga's? First time loading Mono's.

 

[1jonathan1994]

I second a 160 to 165 grain high bc 7mm bullet. That would be great. I started load work with the 170 and going to be a pretty awesome bullet. I tested to 888 yards and bc seemed pretty good at .370

What speed were you getting?
Powder
Barrel length
Etc

I might play with a box

 

[Schw15]

What speed were you getting?
Powder
Barrel length
Etc

I might play with a box

Havent finished testing. But 7mm saum 26 inch barrel so far from 2850 to 2950 with rl26 and imr 7977. I will know more in a few weeks. But i do love the bullets. I used the 151 with great results

 

[Schw15]

What is the best way to measure seating depth? Ogive or total cartridge length for the Cayuga's? First time loading Mono's.

I do it the old fashion way put a rod down barrel put mark then put bullet in throat lightly tap and put rod back down barrel make mark and then measure take 20 thousand off and load on to make sure you are off lands and play with seating depth from there. Non monos i do samething but i start my length at the measurement and work my way 10 off

 

[Painless300]

I do it the old fashion way put a rod down barrel put mark then put bullet in throat lightly tap and put rod back down barrel make mark and then measure take 20 thousand off and load on to make sure you are off lands and play with seating depth from there. Non monos i do samething but i start my length at the measurement and work my way 10 off

I understand how to find the lands. I was really asking when measuring COAL do you index off the ogive or tip of the bullet. I always measure off the ogive but on the Cayuga's it feels like its bottoming out in my gauge.