Range Report New M118LR loading from Federal

[CoryT]

I've been priviledged to do a little testing of a new M118LR loading from Federal, formally announced at NDIA a week or so ago. It's loaded with an IMR type powder, reducing temperature related velocity shifts, making the load much more consistent across a wide swing of temperatures.

The standard M118LR <span style="text-decoration: line-through">ball</span> [correction: current m118LR uses RE 15, thanks Two Shooes for the point out] powder loading shifts velocity almost 1 fps per degree F. My tests of the new loading show it shifts less than 20 fps average from 0F to 100F, plus the SD over a 40 round string was only 15fps.

This load has been under 1 MOA in seven different test rifles out to 800 yards. My personal Krieger barreled Rem 700 put 5 shots into 3.78" at 800 this morning, vertical dispersion was only 2".

My boxes are coded Mk 316 Mod 0, 1305-01-567-6944 AB39.

I don't know where this is in the supply system yet, and I have no information to suggest it in any way replaces the existing M118LR.

I will say I've shot rather a lot of the current standard load, and I have several thousand rounds on hand. It has always performed well and I've been quite happy with tit. This is a measurable improvement, and I would gladly trade all the 7.62 I have for it.

 

[1SMALLJOHNSON]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

Dave and the boys at Federal did a good job developing that round. Good powder too. I took part in the development and feel the Navy will be happy with the outcome. It's a great improvement over standard issue.

 

[ptaylor]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

can you give us chrono numbers from some different barrel lengths? say 20" and 24"?

 

[CoryT]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

My 26" gun is right at 2735fps, I'll have to look at the log at home to find the 20" guns.

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

I shot some standard M118 out of an LTR last week at 400 yards. It was quite mild in recoil versus 175 smks w/ 43 grs of H4895 and the POI was a good 1.5 minutes lower. That stuff was just loafing along.

2735 fps seems like a pretty spiffy load.

 

[CoryT]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

My current lot of the standard M118LR clocks in at 2694 from the same gun, so for practial purposes they seem the same.

 

[ptaylor]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

I'm betting 2550 maybe a little less for a 20" tube, let us know what you find, appreciate it.

 

[VSP968]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

So, by your lot number, the DODIC would be AB39?

 

[Psywar1-0]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

So I have to ask, how exactly did you gain access to this ammo? My picture hangs on the wall right outside the guy in charge of this projects office, and I have not even fired one single round of it.....

 

[CoryT]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

I got 2580 from a 20" LTR. The DODIC does appear to be AB39 as opposed to AA11.

As it happens, David came to the PR7 class and brought this to test during the class. There was a bit left over, which, rather than ship back, he left with me to test. Now it remains to to seen how I'll ever get any more of it, but I'd much rather see it getting to those who can truly put it to good use.

 

[MLC]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

Is this a new IMR type powder?

 

[Psywar1-0]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

I know what the powder is, but Im not sure I can say, dang NDA's and all that. But Its not exactly new, If you could find powder in stock you could order it from any of the usual suspects

Since I moved back to Indiana I lost my "Corporate Sponsorship" when it came to Mk262 and M118LR, After the June Atterbury F Class match I will be shooting my own loads that will mimic Mk316

 

[Truck7]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

It's got to be the H variety????

 

[Chance]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

Doesn't Hodgdon own IMR; Sounds like Varget to me. Who knows???

 

[Arch]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MLC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is this a new IMR type powder? </div></div>
New for this go around. Eugene Stoner recommended the IMR 4475 powder (Improved Military Rifle) when he first offered the AR-15 in the early 60's.

 

[81STFACP]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Psywar1-0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know what the powder is, but Im not sure I can say, dang NDA's and all that. But Its not exactly new, If you could find powder in stock you could order it from any of the usual suspects

</div></div>

I do not know the contents of your NDA, but will it allow you to disassemble the product and just weigh the powder charge? With the powder charge I am sure a lot of folks will zoom right in what powder it is for the given advertised velocity.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

Hodgdon owns IMR and Win powders.

 

[CoryT]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

The load is approx. 40.2 grains of an IMR type powder, the kernel is about 1/3 longer than a kernel of Varget. It certainly shares the temperature insensetivity of the Hodgdon Extreme type powders, but that's all I know about it.

 

[MLC]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

Sounds a bit like 3031.

 

[Truck7]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

I think H4895 is a bit longer kernal than Varget. 3031 would be temp sensitive.
But the charge wt. seems light??? what is out there that would be faster than 4895 and be temp insensitive to have such a light charge wt.

What a minute. being Mil Spec. it probably has a magnum primer for cold weather, LC Brass so the charge Wt is not light.

My vote is H4895

 

[CoryT]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

The brass is marked FC, the case holds 55.2 grains of water.

 

[Truck7]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

FC Brass, Damn there goes that theory

 

[PLeighton]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

What headstamp do they have?
LC LR?

Noticed that the listed unit cost was significantly greater than M118-LR.
1305-01-567-6944 (Mk 316 Mod 0) $.78ea
1305-01-419-8202 (M118-LR) $.55ea

 

[CoryT]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

They are FC 09, with a full crimp on the primer , which uses a purple sealant.

 

[1SMALLJOHNSON]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

We sure got them boys in a tizzy, don't we???

 

[PLeighton]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

Oddly enough, Alliant had on their web site a while back that the RE15 was choosen for the M118-LR due to its "superior temperature stability".

 

[81STFACP]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The brass is marked FC, the case holds 55.2 grains of water. </div></div>

CoryT,

Now, here is another question for you - Is the bullet crimped though the 175s do not have a cannelure? Or should the question be - Is the case crimped at the mouth? You know what I am asking about. If the cases were indeed crimped, is the crimping a contributing factor to the consistency round after round as demonstrated? 1/2 minute accuracy on target, 15 FPS ES, and tight water line, 2 inches, at long range.


Cheers...

 

[1SMALLJOHNSON]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

Whatever you do, don't tell them about the pixie dust!

 

[CoryT]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

Negative, no crimp or sealant at the case mouth.

 

[MLC]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

Now you've let the cat out of the bag.

 

[Emilio]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

tag

 

[dmg308]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

double tag

 

[Psywar1-0]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

Yall should shoot some of this at night to really get impressed

Also I have the load data, if you have a soc.mil email addy I can give you info, otherwise, Sorry no can do.....

 

[kraigWY]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

OK I have a question. The M118 loaded with 4895 pushing the mil 173 bullet dosnt home have a muzzle flash at night out of a M21/14/MIA which was great in the M21s. How about R-15 pushing the 175 SMKs out of a M14/M1A. The no-flash would indicate to me a I'm geting a perfect powder burn.

I've always loaded 4895 in my 308s, saving my R-15 for my AR Service Rifle.

I'm wondering if I can go to one powder for both. I suppse I could try it my self but that would require pinning up my horses if I'm gonna shoot at night, plus Id have to hope I didnt end up poaching some deer.

 

[Grump]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK I have a question. The M118 loaded with 4895 pushing the mil 173 bullet dosnt home have a muzzle flash at night out of a M21/14/MIA which was great in the M21s. How about R-15 pushing the 175 SMKs out of a M14/M1A. The no-flash would indicate to me a I'm geting a perfect powder burn.

I've always loaded 4895 in my 308s, saving my R-15 for my AR Service Rifle.

I'm wondering if I can go to one powder for both. I suppse I could try it my self but that would require pinning up my horses if I'm gonna shoot at night, plus Id have to hope I didnt end up poaching some deer. </div></div>

That's your flash suppressor doing its job more than powder burn characteristics. Betcha that same ammo out of the same length barrel with a bare muzzle will flash impressively enough.

Muzzle flash includes elements of heat incandescence, plus powder byproduct gases igniting on contact with atmospheric O2. Consult QuickLoad for an estimate of how complete the powder burn is.

 

[Emilio]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

I just saw the data card for this round and the charge seems kind of light for this powder?

 

[1SMALLJOHNSON]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MLC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now you've let the cat out of the bag.

</div></div>


That's just awesome. Wish I could photoshop stuff like that!

 

[Psywar1-0]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2009infantrysmallarms/tuesdaysessioniii8524.pdf

The public release info on this ammo

 

[mp45acp]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

I will take a case or two...

 

[Chiller]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

would love to try this.

 

[junglejim23]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

have you all seen this could it be ?

cheaper than dirt FC 08 M118LR

 

[1SMALLJOHNSON]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

In all likelihood, that's off-spec LC. Normally, that's how CTD works white box ammo deals.

 

[junglejim23]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

would they use a FC marked case for that ?

the head stamp on these is FC 08

 

[Truck7]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

I will bet PIXIE DUST is backordered also.

 

[kombayotch]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The load is approx. 40.2 grains of an IMR type powder, the kernel is about 1/3 longer than a kernel of Varget. It certainly shares the temperature insensetivity of the Hodgdon Extreme type powders, but that's all I know about it. </div></div>

Is it also green?


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Psywar1-0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2009infantrysmallarms/tuesdaysessioniii8524.pdf

The public release info on this ammo </div></div>

From that presentation:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Propellant

• Over 20 different existing propellants and new propellant blends were evaluated
• A modified extruded propellant was utilized</div></div>

Wouldn't "modified" imply that its not available off-the-shelf?

 

[kombayotch]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

<span style="text-decoration: line-through">IMR 3031 is too slow to give 2735 fps with only 40.2 gr. (It would require around 43.1 grains)</span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IMR 4198

This fast burning rifle powder gives outstanding performance in cartridges like the 222 Remington, 221 Fireball, 45-70, and 450 Marlin. Varmint shooters with small-bore cartridges love it. Proven metering and <span style="font-weight: bold">necessary elements were added to make it extremely insensitive to hot/cold temperatures</span>. IMR4198 is outstanding in cartridges like the 222 Remington, 444 Marlin and 7.62 X 39.</div></div>

<span style="text-decoration: line-through">IMR 4198 matches up better...</span>

CoryT,

What is the approximate COAL?

<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">edit: ignore the crossed out stuff, its wrong!</span></span>

 

[CoryT]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

COAL is 2.810 (avg), identical to the M118LR i've got on hand. The powder is the normal dark gray color.

 

[kombayotch]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

That rules out any of the Extreme powders. If it's made by IMR, temperature stable and available on the shelves (normally), I see IMR 4198 as the only possibility. Don't know if the kernels are longer than Varget as I've never used that powder. QL says big over-pressure with 40.2 gr. of it, but its been known to be way off with some powders... H4895, for example.

 

[Hogstooth]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

Cory, was the COAL measured with calipers? Or some other means?

 

[USSR]

Re: New M118LR loading from Federal

Sorry, but Federal (ATK) is not going to use a Hodgdon product (IMR powder), anymore than Ford is going to use a GM product.

Don