New press announcement from Area 419

[Dthomas3523]

I can reconcile the cost of an Auto trickler/Fx120 or even a Prometheus against the consistency and speed they provide. However, this one escapes me. I know some masterful people who reload and compete in the long range benchrest game where consistency is everything. I know what they go through to produce consistent ammunition. It is quite the process and they use some of the latest and greatest gear. One uses a Prometheus and it is a pretty amazing piece of equipment. The accuracy, consistency and SPEED it provides is amazing. They can extol the virtues of it all but their presses are nothing special it is one of the only items that is seldom mentioned.

What tangible and measurable reloading metric will it improve?

That’s a good question. And one we likely won’t know the exact answer until the press is released.

Let’s say it does have less “slop” and it does provide a measurable consistency upgrade. Can even the best shooters in the world exploit it? That’s the big question.

For me personally, even if I can’t see a difference on paper, if it makes cranking on a press 5-10k times a year easier/more enjoyable, then it’s worth it.

I likely can’t shoot the difference between fx120 and Prometheus. But the speed/convenience is worth it as far as Prometheus is concerned.

 

[Steel head]

That’s a good question. And one we likely won’t know the exact answer until the press is released.

Let’s say it does have less “slop” and it does provide a measurable consistency upgrade. Can even the best shooters in the world exploit it? That’s the big question.

For me personally, even if I can’t see a difference on paper, if it makes cranking on a press 5-10k times a year easier/more enjoyable, then it’s worth it.

I likely can’t shoot the difference between fx120 and Prometheus. But the speed/convenience is worth it as far as Prometheus is concerned.

Ease of sizing certainly is a area where the 419 will probably shred my press.
If I wasn’t a degenerate neck sizer it would be a bigger factor in my choices.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Ease of sizing certainly is a area where the 419 will probably shred my press.
If I wasn’t a degenerate neck sizer it would be a bigger factor in my choices.

Everyone has their poison. I don’t drive or care about expensive cars. But I bet at least a few complaining about the cost of the press have some sort of hobby or like where they spend more that what others would consider reasonable.

 

[Steel head]

Everyone has their poison. I don’t drive or care about expensive cars. But I bet at least a few complaining about the cost of the press have some sort of hobby or like where they spend more that what others would consider reasonable.

I have fishing rods and reels that cost more than that press

 

[Nik H]

That’s a good question. And one we likely won’t know the exact answer until the press is released.

Let’s say it does have less “slop” and it does provide a measurable consistency upgrade. Can even the best shooters in the world exploit it? That’s the big question.

For me personally, even if I can’t see a difference on paper, if it makes cranking on a press 5-10k times a year easier/more enjoyable, then it’s worth it.

I likely can’t shoot the difference between fx120 and Prometheus. But the speed/convenience is worth it as far as Prometheus is concerned.

That is fair

I really believe that the cost of reloading equipment is either justified through the benefit of speed improvement, consistency improvement and in rare cases both of the above.

It will be most interesting to actually be able to identify specific metrics that are improved against the time it takes to achieve them using more standard equipment. If these improvements also result in improved shooting experience, then it will see rapid adoption.

 

[kriller134]

Just got an IDOD and a CPS. Might as well get a Zero. ?

I’ve never looked up an idod until this thread. Holy crap that’s an awesome tool.

hes gonna mayzure everything on that puppy

He could start by finding a decent barber. If that’s what you mean.
Otherwise, he seems like a nice guy, reasonably experienced and isn’t annoying to listen to.

I think it’s his glasses. Just makes you want to punch him in the face???

 

[Steel head]

I’ve never looked up an idod until this thread. Holy crap that’s an awesome tool.


I think it’s his glasses. Just makes you want to punch him in the face???

Yea
The IDOD looks awesome!

lol!

 

[Dthomas3523]

I’ve never looked up an idod until this thread. Holy crap that’s an awesome tool.


I think it’s his glasses. Just makes you want to punch him in the face???

Just got my IDOD this week. It’s crazy awesome tool.

 

[Dthomas3523]

That is fair

I really believe that the cost of reloading equipment is either justified through the benefit of speed improvement, consistency improvement and in rare cases both of the above.

It will be most interesting to actually be able to identify specific metrics that are improved against the time it takes to achieve them using more standard equipment. If these improvements also result in improved shooting experience, then it will see rapid adoption.

Agreed. Even if just for the sake of innovation, it’s interesting. No one has messed with press design in decades. At least not in any dramatic way.

 

[30cal user]

Keep innovating area 419 and pushing forward, market will let you know......the laws of diminishing returns are meant to be broken and subjective?

 

[Ryridesmotox]

Sexy as fuck. Not going to buy one, but that thing looks sweet.

 

[G-Dog]

Looks amazing. High end engineering does tend to trickle down to lower end equipment designs eventually; which is good for poors like me!

We’ll, I’m not poor poor, or at least wasn’t until I started these hobbies. . .

 

[jzerfoss]

I'd like to see a comparison between a co-ax or T7 and this press with the consistency of the ammo produced by the presses. Using the same dies for each and measuring the ammo/brass with run-out gauges, a headspace comparator, and base to ogive comparator would tell us how much it makes a difference.

 

[DisplacedTexan]

Hey man, interested in knowing which of our stuff falls into this category. We have some products that are more expensive, but those also bear some sort of increased quality or value.

Funnels and autotrickler stuff spring to mind instantly. The autotrickler base is the exception imo.

 

[flyer1a]

Funnels and autotrickler stuff spring to mind instantly. The autotrickler base is the exception imo.

Every part made for the AutoTrickler was to fix a specific problem we had with the system, specifically in the V2 days. Adam has updated his designs to provide some of the benefits with V3, but to say the V2 stuff was unnecessary or only for fanboys is bananas.

The Funnel Kit is a luxury, sure, but it's also really nice to have to not worry about static grabbing powder, or powder bridging as it's always forced into a .22 hole in a plastic universal. Knowing the number sold, and how they've been sold, the data disagrees with your assertion that they are just for fanboys.

We've always been of the opinion - if it's not for you, don't buy it. But if you're serious about quality items being made specifically for the precision bolt gun game, I think there's something to be said for trying to push the envelope.

 

[MarinePMI]

Off topic here, but is 419 ever going to make a billet v3 trickler base?

 

[Dthomas3523]

Off topic here, but is 419 ever going to make a billet v3 trickler base?

Improved Billet Adjustable BASE for Auto-Trickler V2/V3

NEW at Area 419 – a billet adjustable base for the popular Auto Trickler powder trickler. This item replaces the 3D printed base that comes with the Auto Trickler unit. We have recently updated this item to add a thumb-wheel for pitch adjustment and have redesigned it to add about 14% more...

www.area419.com

 

[MarinePMI]

Figures. I should have checked the site before posting (on my phone right now). I got the V3 early, so the base wasn’t available then.
Thanks!

 

[Dthomas3523]

Figures. I should have checked the site before posting (on my phone right now). I got the V3 early, so the base wasn’t available then.
Thanks!

I just randomly saw it a couple days ago. I’m pretty happy with my v3 base. But this one might sway me to upgrade.

 

[MarinePMI]

You just cost me $75. ??

 

[kindabitey]

You just cost me $75. ??

That's what friends are for ?

 

[Milo 2.5]

Sweet controversy over a product no one has yet! Someone buys one, let us know your opinion.

 

[flyer1a]

Off topic here, but is 419 ever going to make a billet v3 trickler base?

The V3 Trickler is exactly the same as the V2, outside of the 3D printed stand. Our V2 base is now actually listed as V2/V3. We did, however, quietly alter the design about a year ago to make it heavier and make it simpler to adjust auger angle.

 

[Gustav7]

He could start by finding a decent barber. If that’s what you mean.
Otherwise, he seems like a nice guy, reasonably experienced and isn’t annoying to listen to.

LOL... I think that the type of personality he has is not exactly the norm for the firearm community. He's extremely science based, sort of geeky, and to top it all he's got glasses and he's lanky. BY no means does any of that bother me, but combine all of that with his scientific personality and I think it sort of bothers some our beloved firearm community.

Lets be honest, homogeny of personalities runs a lot smoother than mixtures ... and thats really what creates biases among us. Its why the laid back, utilitarian shooter who drives a beat up truck doesn't isn't always best friends with the uppedy, gear freak with $10k worth of equipment lol

That being said, he does seem like a really nice guy, and does great evaluations and reviews. He really takes some of that stuff to the next level.

 

[Pixel_wasted]

After being in an industry for a decade of fabrication,i know billet aluminum isnt cheap by any means.Its cool for sure,$1200 cool?i dont know.My coax is my brass forming machine before they run into my dillons.Neither of those are picture perfect but work perfect enough for me.That being said,i love reloading.I love tweaking something to make it my own,and wouldnt mind playing with it before seeing the price tag and jumping to conclusions

 

[wbbh]

Pricey! If you need a compact precision press that is also portable, look at Harrel presses.

Reloading Presses

Reloading Presses

harrellsprec.com

 

[LA260]

In a world of $150 reloading trays a $1200 press seems reasonable

 

[ChuckSwagger]

My buddy has had that issue with his co ax.
We tried a few different lock rings and that was the issue, some lock rings don’t have flats perfectly flat or Perpendicular to the thread axis.

Neither my Frankford Arsenal M-Press Coaxial ...
I have to tuning it every time

 

[db2000]

We think the press system needs to do everything it can to eliminate tolerances, not just apply pressure hoping they all line up. This press will have much less variance in the extended position of the ram, and will ultimately be available with precision ground shellholders that are custom to the system, eliminating even more of that potential error.

See what I just responded to @bmicek - it's not for everyone, but for some it will make all the sense in the world.

Thanks for taking the time to explain intent and answer questions.
Not sure your role in the company, or if it's fair to ask you this, but would Area 419 ever consider blinded testing in comparison with less expensive but reputable systems? This is the gold standard in medicine and often done in other fields such as speaker cables where there is much debate. Thanks.

 

[alfmoonspace]

I’m sure someone will - TT’s and CPS’s had initial blowback until someone tired them.

 

[Rhed]

Thanks for taking the time to explain intent and answer questions.
Not sure your role in the company, or if it's fair to ask you this, but would Area 419 ever consider blinded testing in comparison with less expensive but reputable systems? This is the gold standard in medicine and often done in other fields such as speaker cables where there is much debate. Thanks.

Haha.. you must be a A/V junkie. Cause I am.. lol.. It‘s actually my first hobby. Ah, also like the whole debate and blind testing of inexpensive pro amps vs high end 10k plus home audio amps. Or 1500$ 30” audio USB cable vs a 40$ usb cable..lol.. ok sorry! Back to topic..

 

[Cote0321]

So did @Petrov get banned for having a different opinion than a mod?

Anyway, to the topic, I’m with the group willing to spend $1200 or more on something/anything that’s a glaring improvement. I more than appreciate the R&D, time, talent, and craft that went into this. The cad/cam design, materials, and machining on this alone meet the price point.

All that said, i think a lot of potential purchases will solely depend on whether or not 419 either makes their own dies or if they work something out with SAC or SAP (don’t remember which one Craig mentioned in the video).

Good looking press, but I’ve still yet to see anything other than designs and parts. Has anyone seen a complete, working press yet? I’m inclined to believe that we are ALL speculating over something that doesn’t exist yet.

.2 cents.

 

[lash]

So did @Petrov get banned for having a different opinion than a mod?

Anyway, to the topic, I’m with the group willing to spend $1200 or more on something/anything that’s a glaring improvement. I more than appreciate the R&D, time, talent, and craft that went into this. The cad/cam design, materials, and machining on this alone meet the price point.

All that said, i think a lot of potential purchases will solely depend on whether or not 419 either makes their own dies or if they work something out with SAC or SAP (don’t remember which one Craig mentioned in the video).

Good looking press, but I’ve still yet to see anything other than designs and parts. Has anyone seen a complete, working press yet? I’m inclined to believe that we are ALL speculating over something that doesn’t exist yet.

.2 cents.

I don’t see that Petrov is/was banned at all. Maybe I missed something?

 

[Cote0321]

I don’t see that Petrov is/was banned at all. Maybe I missed something?

if there is a way to check, I have no idea. Was just curious due to his silence after the threat lol

lets not derail the thread. I digress

 

[MarinePMI]

No, he's not banned.

 

[flyer1a]

Thanks for taking the time to explain intent and answer questions.
Not sure your role in the company, or if it's fair to ask you this, but would Area 419 ever consider blinded testing in comparison with less expensive but reputable systems? This is the gold standard in medicine and often done in other fields such as speaker cables where there is much debate. Thanks.

I'm our Dir. of Sales/Marketing. The idea of blind testing in medicine works as it's been a process required for decades (centuries?) and there is a lot of structure around it. Medicine also tends to come in pretty consistent form (little pill, vial, syringe) so it's easier to be blind. The idea that someone can do that in the reloading world where the items feel/look/act different is a lot more difficult. What we have done though is sought out the best public source of testing we could find, with a strong reputation, and have engaged him to do this for all of you.

The other thing to make very clear here - there's no promise this improves your ammo. None. It absolutely may, as there will be a reduction in variables, but it also may not. A press is one of about 50 parts/components/tools that go into building "perfect" ammo. This project will continue and we will work on controlling more of those variables, but what we have shown at this point is a part of a broad system. It'll be the best of its kind, bar none, but understand the nature of tools in an ecosystem.

The individuals buying this are doing it to reduce variables, and because they appreciate quality equipment. Like someone said in another thread on another site "I have a nice set of Mitutoyo calipers on my reloading bench. Could I do the same job, to the level of accuracy I need with a cheap set from Harbor Freight? Probably. But I like nice tools."

 

[Dthomas3523]

I'm our Dir. of Sales/Marketing. The idea of blind testing in medicine works as it's been a process required for decades (centuries?) and there is a lot of structure around it. Medicine also tends to come in pretty consistent form (little pill, vial, syringe) so it's easier to be blind. The idea that someone can do that in the reloading world where the items feel/look/act different is a lot more difficult. What we have done though is sought out the best public source of testing we could find, with a strong reputation, and have engaged him to do this for all of you.

The other thing to make very clear here - there's no promise this improves your ammo. None. It absolutely may, as there will be a reduction in variables, but it also may not. A press is one of about 50 parts/components/tools that go into building "perfect" ammo. This project will continue and we will work on controlling more of those variables, but what we have shown at this point is a part of a broad system. It'll be the best of its kind, bar none, but understand the nature of tools in an ecosystem.

The individuals buying this are doing it to reduce variables, and because they appreciate quality equipment. Like someone said in another thread on another site "I have a nice set of Mitutoyo calipers on my reloading bench. Could I do the same job, to the level of accuracy I need with a cheap set from Harbor Freight? Probably. But I like nice tools."

Any plans to offer dies as well at some point?

Controlling the tolerances with your own shell holders only leaves the dies as the outlier.

Not sure it would matter. Just curious. The more items designed to work specifically with one another, the better.

 

[Cote0321]

Gavin praises whatever people send him. That’ll be quite biased.

I have been a massive fan of Area419 up until this point. I know they‘re running a business but they’re dodging too many questions.

Love great tools, cnc machining, shooting, reloading, and spending money.

Do not love large claims without tangible results.

IS THERE EVEN A SINGLE COMPLETED PRESS YET? Can we see it? A video? Something? Anything? Rather not wait on gavin to unbox it, take a few minutes to get familiar with it, then suck the ball off the shaft.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Gavin praises whatever people send him. That’ll be quite biased.

I have been a massive fan of Area419 up until this point. I know they‘re running a business but they’re dodging too many questions.

Love great tools, cnc machining, shooting, reloading, and spending money.

Do not love large claims without tangible results.

IS THERE EVEN A SINGLE COMPLETED PRESS YET? Can we see it? A video? Something? Anything? Rather not wait on gavin to unbox it, take a few minutes to get familiar with it, then suck the ball off the shaft.

Typically the way big reviewers work, if they like it they will do the public review and talk it up.

If they don’t, they give their feedback privately to the manufacturer so they can make changes. Either they make the necessary changes and they then make a positive review video, or they don’t and the reviewer never does a public review.

You go around posting big time negative reviews and you’ll quickly find yourself either not doing reviews anymore, or doing it on your own 100% out of your own pocket.

This is why most popular YouTube and other reviewers rarely give a totally negative review. The negatives are communicated privately.

 

[Gustav7]

Gavin praises whatever people send him. That’ll be quite biased.

I have been a massive fan of Area419 up until this point. I know they‘re running a business but they’re dodging too many questions.

Love great tools, cnc machining, shooting, reloading, and spending money.

Do not love large claims without tangible results.

IS THERE EVEN A SINGLE COMPLETED PRESS YET? Can we see it? A video? Something? Anything? Rather not wait on gavin to unbox it, take a few minutes to get familiar with it, then suck the ball off the shaft.

What review isn't biased?

The post they made above seems like they aren't making any wild or outlandish promises, and they've done a pretty good job on this thread of answering as many questions as possible. They have to unveil products at some point... Its impossible to release a product AFTER everyone has used it lol. Be realistic here.

 

[Cote0321]

Typically the way big reviewers work, if they like it they will do the public review and talk it up.

If they don’t, they give their feedback privately to the manufacturer so they can make changes. Either they make the necessary changes and they then make a positive review video, or they don’t and the reviewer never does a public review.

You go around posting big time negative reviews and you’ll quickly find yourself either not doing reviews anymore, or doing it on your own 100% out of your own pocket.

This is why most popular YouTube and other reviewers rarely give a totally negative review. The negatives are communicated privately.

I’ll respect that. Still like to see something produced from Jon and crew first.

My distaste is coming from my 5x asking of the same question being ignored. Can we see something tangible? A fully built press? Does it even exist?

Honestly trying not to hold anything against the guys. I love their products and innovation, but I think this was a premature launch.

I say it may have been a premature launch for the following reason: It’s not another arca rail, clamp, powder funnel, brake, etc that we all know what it does and how it’ll perform. This is a new contender in the heart of the reloading process claiming to be the best there ever was and we were shown parts and pieces.

I’ll lay low till I see something from the area419 team.

Cheers

 

[Cote0321]

What review isn't biased?

The post they made above seems like they aren't making any wild or outlandish promises, and they've done a pretty good job on this thread of answering as many questions as possible. They have to unveil products at some point... Its impossible to release a product AFTER everyone has used it lol. Be realistic here.

Their most recent post was a very good clean up of everything else they’ve already said and maybe over promised. You’re correct there.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I’ll respect that. Still like to see something produced from Jon and crew first.

My distaste is coming from my 5x asking of the same question being ignored. Can we see something tangible? A fully built press? Does it even exist?

Honestly trying not to hold anything against the guys. I love their products and innovation, but I think this was a premature launch.

I say it may have been a premature launch for the following reason: It’s not another arca rail, clamp, powder funnel, brake, etc that we all know what it does and how it’ll perform. This is a new contender in the heart of the reloading process claiming to be the best there ever was and we were shown parts and pieces.

I’ll lay low till I see something from the area419 team.

Cheers

I see it more as a preview/launch. Since this is fairly different than most of what they offer, getting people talking about it early is a good game plan.

I’d rather have it on my to do list at shot show than to either see it by accident or someone after ask me if I had a chance to look at it when I didn’t know it existed and missed it.

But I do agree, there can be no validation of claims until working presses are in the Wild.

 

[kthomas]

Looks like it's going to be a really well built press.

I'll be watching this one from afar. I can see the allure for some people, and we know it's going to be a very well built machine.

My Forster Co-ax has a little slop in it, and sometimes I have to make very minute adjustments between reloading sessions. Not that big of a deal, but I could see how it could be a bit annoying for some.

$1200 is a lot, and we are really running up against the wall of diminishing returns here. I can see some of the conveniences that this machine would bring, though minor. My Forster Co-ax makes such good and consist ammo, I truly don't believe there would be any meaningful performance gain that myself or 99.999% of shooters could shoot. I also don't think there would be much of a time savings, save for the couple of minutes of having to do any re-adjustments at the begining of a session.

I'm curious to see what performance improvements people will get with this ammo, but I'm not expecting to hear many (if any) honest reviews.

I'm one of those people that sees value in the CPS, but for myself, not this press. Hand priming absolutely sucks, and I'll pay the premium to precision load high volumes of primers without having to use a hand primer. That's a big time improvement in the user experience. My current press doesn't cause me any discomfort or displeasure, and the performance has been excellent.

I'm all for celebrating ingenuity, and I love a well built machine. I certainly wouldn't fault anyone for buying one. I'm in camp with @47guy on this one, this is certainly a luxury device which is near the ceiling of the law of diminishing returns. Good for Area 419 to come up with something new, I hope they do well with it. I'm sure they will do okay since there is people out there willing to spending $130
on a micarta loading block

 

[flyer1a]

Any plans to offer dies as well at some point?

Controlling the tolerances with your own shell holders only leaves the dies as the outlier.

Not sure it would matter. Just curious. The more items designed to work specifically with one another, the better.

Yep, we are going to do everything we can to solve the inherent problems with die alignment as well, for guys that want to jump into the rabbit hole even further.

 

[flyer1a]

I’ll respect that. Still like to see something produced from Jon and crew first.

My distaste is coming from my 5x asking of the same question being ignored. Can we see something tangible? A fully built press? Does it even exist?

Honestly trying not to hold anything against the guys. I love their products and innovation, but I think this was a premature launch.

I say it may have been a premature launch for the following reason: It’s not another arca rail, clamp, powder funnel, brake, etc that we all know what it does and how it’ll perform. This is a new contender in the heart of the reloading process claiming to be the best there ever was and we were shown parts and pieces.

I’ll lay low till I see something from the area419 team.

Cheers

There are no complete, running copies of the unit. We released our concept as we are building the early prototypes. One of our key timing concerns is a new machine that we have coming in for this project, which will allow us to mill every critical surface of the press body in one operation. Until that machine arrives, we will not be able to produce the most important part of the unit in the manner we'd like.

For years we have been more aggressive than most companies with our transparency and honesty. We take steps to let people behind the curtain in ways that make other companies nervous. When releasing the Maverick, we took a magazine writer out and shot with him using a prototype that we knew wasn't going to be even terribly close the final version. Risky? Yeah, so what? Hell, we have even seen other brands pop up that are basic replicas of our shop in the same industry!

The other thing we do, and do VERY intently in this process, is listen to feedback. When we make an announcement about an in-process item, and it reaches a hundred thousand people on Facebook alone in one day, we get a lot of "what about this" type stuff. While we generally ignore the "JuSt As GuUd" stuff, we occasionally see stuff that helps us think critically about a design. Are a few heads better to analyze a product, or thousands?

We know we take risk in these sorts of launches, but that's ok. We are comfortable with it. If you're not, that's ok, nobody is sending you a bill for anything. Actually, we haven't accepted a nickel in ZERO pre-orders at this time, as we want to be sure it's perfect.

As for the impartiality of Gavin? He's an enthusiastic guy. Not common around these parts but he is who he is. What he also does, however, is take seriously the scientific method and the collection of objective information. Love his style or hate it, hard to see how he doesn't deliver fair reviews.

 

[flyer1a]

Gavin praises whatever people send him. That’ll be quite biased.

I have been a massive fan of Area419 up until this point. I know they‘re running a business but they’re dodging too many questions.

Love great tools, cnc machining, shooting, reloading, and spending money.

Do not love large claims without tangible results.

IS THERE EVEN A SINGLE COMPLETED PRESS YET? Can we see it? A video? Something? Anything? Rather not wait on gavin to unbox it, take a few minutes to get familiar with it, then suck the ball off the shaft.

Also, real quick, what question are we dodging? For several days now I have been working through and answering questions on this forum, other forums, and various social media channels. I think we have been more accessible and transparent than you're going to see of about any company in the industry. Who else 1) releases concepts, and then 2) jumps online to discuss them over the weekend, 3) even with some guys we are confident won't be customers on the product?

If you guys want brands to engage, it's probably better to slow down with accusations and such. I don't really care, but I talk to other guys in similar roles that have decided "Fuck [insert forum name] and the trolls on their boards" because of this stuff. Just lookin' out as I believe direct engagement is VERY important for the progression of the community.

 

[kindabitey]

Yep, we are going to do everything we can to solve the inherent problems with die alignment as well, for guys that want to jump into the rabbit hole even further.

I'm so far down the rabbit hole, I can't see daylight

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Thank you 419 for taking a risk and trying something new. It will be exciting to watch.

 

[Cote0321]

Also, real quick, what question are we dodging? For several days now I have been working through and answering questions on this forum, other forums, and various social media channels. I think we have been more accessible and transparent than you're going to see of about any company in the industry. Who else 1) releases concepts, and then 2) jumps online to discuss them over the weekend, 3) even with some guys we are confident won't be customers on the product?

If you guys want brands to engage, it's probably better to slow down with accusations and such. I don't really care, but I talk to other guys in similar roles that have decided "Fuck [insert forum name] and the trolls on their boards" because of this stuff. Just lookin' out as I believe direct engagement is VERY important for the progression of the community.

You started off so good with your first response by finally answering the question i said was being dodged. “does it even exist yet”.

Playing the ignorance card wont work though. Asked the same question 3-4 times during the live reveal where you answered nearly every other question by voice or whoever was behind the computer answering in comments. I asked 3-4 times here. and Instagram. All I got on that.

Never jumped to saying fuck anyone. I’ve actually ordered from you guys since the reveal.

As far as fuck the forum... lot of people say that elsewhere because they get shit on by the truth around here And they don’t like it.

I would agree, in general, you guys try to be transparent. Jon’s video with the nyc cnc guy was what turned me on to the company and products. Can see he cares about his work.

I don’t think anyone’s trolling you, and that’s certainly not my intention. There’s just people that want answers to big claims. I do respect the willingness in the risk you took. Like the perspective about/intent to get outside opinions about things you might have overlooked.

Not bashing you big dog, but don’t let your emotions get the best of you when responding to us. As you said, you took the risk, so you gotta answer the questions left unanswered.

That said, my questions are answered. Thanks ??