Is that donut transparent at all? Looks pretty thick at 8xThis is insanely difficult to get pictures, lol. But this is the reticle at 4x, 6x and 8x.
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Is that donut transparent at all? Looks pretty thick at 8xThis is insanely difficult to get pictures, lol. But this is the reticle at 4x, 6x and 8x.
No. The donut part of the reticle or any part of it isn't transparent or translucent like the 1-10 Razor.Is that donut transparent at all? Looks pretty thick at 8x
I know at 1x(like most crosshairs reticles for me) it helps draw my eye to the center of the reticle more quickly. As opposed to say the Razor gen III 1-10 that just has the three bars(not full stadia) trying to direct your eye to the center; its just much harder to pick up sans illumination on.If only the vertical above the donut wasn’t there, I think that would be a perfect BDC reticle.
I know I’ll get flamed for this, but why is it there? This ret isn’t meant to dial. I can understand maybe a 2mil verticals above the donut of death, but all the way to the top? It blocks too much view imho
This is the reason I loved my March Shorty with DR-1, crosshairs and illumination at SFP and stadia lines at FFPI know at 1x(like most crosshairs reticles for me) it helps draw my eye to the center of the reticle more quickly. As opposed to say the Razor gen III 1-10 that just has the three bars(not full stadia) trying to direct your eye to the center; its just much harder to pick up sans illumination on.
My thought is it's there for if/when your illumination is off or out, it gives you the speed of a crosshair reticle that you get with most SFP. I for one think it was a brilliant addition but that is personal preference. Every other FFP LPVO reticle I have seen has been lacking in this arena, specifically speed if the Illumination is off or out. Not saying none of them work, I just feel like the full crosshairs is a better design.
This is why I like my Razor's in SFP for the crosshairs that be be picked up without the illum on.This is the reason I loved my March Shorty with DR-1, crosshairs and illumination at SFP and stadia lines at FFP
Everyone seems to be very particular about reticles and I agree, I wish PA wouldn’t force everyone down the chevron path. From what I’ve seen, the NX8 would be obsolete if they had a non-chevron reticle available. I will likely try their MIL reticle but I really prefer an open crosshair or floating center dot for precisionThis is why I like my Razor's in SFP for the crosshairs that be be picked up without the illum on.
Let us know how you like it at 1x being it's not exactly daylight bright. I'm wondering if that won't matter with those dark crosshairs.
Also let us know how that 8x is?
Only thingI think I wouldn't like is that chevron for a center aiming point.
It's definitely personal preference when it comes to reticles. Unfortunately we are in the minority when it comes to the PA chevron so I don't see one with a floating dot or crosshair like reticle ever coming to the PA line. The chevron is the main stay of their optic line.Everyone seems to be very particular about reticles and I agree, I wish PA wouldn’t force everyone down the chevron path. From what I’ve seen, the NX8 would be obsolete if they had a non-chevron reticle available. I will likely try their MIL reticle but I really prefer an open crosshair or floating center dot for precision
So a couple thoughts of my own after checking the eye box/eye relief with some friends compared to a Razor 1-6 and my Delta 1-6.
It's not far off. Closer then I anticipated. In fact I couldn't detect a difference in eye relief. I could detect a slight difference in eye box but for only 1 reason. The etched vs wire reticle dilemma(or atleast my experience with it so far). With the wire reticles and fiber illumination, the reticle and illumination is still visible even under complete scope shadow, so you have some point of reference. The PAs etched reticle begins to fade out and the Illumination fades out as you get into COMPLETE scope shadow.
I'm not a scope expert, so I'm not sure if this is something that happens with just the PAs etched and filled reticle (I know it happens with the Razor 1-10 and with less shadow than the PA, meaning the PA does a better job here imo) but it does happen with this scope.
However, that just seems to be the nature of it with a FFP. As far as actual scope shadow and the flexibility of the eye box, there was not a large enough discernable difference between the Razor, Delta, or PA(all this being at 1x) for me to call the PA "worse". Do I think the other two are a touch more capable with those wire reticle and fiber dots visible so far off the scope? Yes. But do I think for a FFP, etched 1-8 short LPVO, the eye relief and eye box seem great(not just ok) on the PA? Equally yes. Your mileage may very and I'm not trying to talk someone into this scope, I'm just trying to be honest especially with the questions regarding the NX8(admittedly I have never looked through one) comparisons. Some of you may be better at gauging and or more picky, but I think the way the PA is getting around the exit pupil issue is the huge FOV and flat bezel less image. It just looks outstanding and makes pulling the scope to the eye and finding the reticle effortless seemingly. I truly think it's good to go on eye box. Whether you prefer a reticle that is visible and illumination completely visible in extreme scope shadow is up to you, there is merit in having that IMO.
As far as the reticle, it is completely personal preference. However, I'll say this about the Chevron, especially with it being FFP. I had the Primary arms SFP SLX 1-6 and wasn't a huge fan of the Chevron, especially once I got my delta 1-6 and had the crosshairs with a simple dot. But, with the FFP, the Arc or half circle above the chevron not only gets small enough to not be obtrusive (it creates a great fast aiming crescent to put on a targets "shoulders") but also the center of the Chevron is visible and big enough to be a dot at 1x and creates a very fine accurate aiming point. It separated enough from the half circle to still be distinguishable easily. It's also still big enough and bold enough to see even without illumination (I was trying this yesterday on a bright day and doing ready ups into a dark wooded area). So you have the half circle for extreme speed and the center Chevron/dot for that fine aiming point for precision on 1x.
Also, the Illumination is going to create enough contrast to give you speed. It's not aimpoint bright or red dot, no, but with the design of the reticle and imo "good enough" brightness on the Illumination, I don't foresee any speed difference between this and my Delta 1-6 or friends razor 1-6 or 1-10.
Just some more thoughts of mine, feel free disagree, especially as others get hands on. I am interested in opinions and yes dissenting opinions
Great info, thank you! What were your impressions of the eyebox at 8x? I thought the NX8 was a really nice scope but I did have two complaints. The first was the segmented circle was too close to center IMHO and made for a cluttered central aiming area. The second was the very tight eyebox at 8x. I am hoping the PA corrects both of these concerns.
I am not a huge fan of a chevron aiming point either, but having never used one, I am willing to give it a go.
CM
Great info, thank you! What were your impressions of the eyebox at 8x? I thought the NX8 was a really nice scope but I did have two complaints. The first was the segmented circle was too close to center IMHO and made for a cluttered central aiming area. The second was the very tight eyebox at 8x. I am hoping the PA corrects both of these concerns.
I am not a huge fan of a chevron aiming point either, but having never used one, I am willing to give it a go.
CM
Well said, and I think that clears it up about the eyebox comparisons.It is more forgiving on 8x than the NX8.
On the whole chevron business: I am somewhat ambivalent about the chevron under most circumstances and do not particularly like chevrons on precision scopes. In an LPVO, however, the chevron is a viable idea if you are looking to have a fairly large center aiming feature while maintaining the ability to aim precisely. In an FFP LPVO, if you make a dot big enough to be easily seen on 1x, it gets kinda too big on 8x. That's why on FFP LPVOs with conventional etched reticles, I generally prefer crosshair structures. The chevron is another solution to the same problem and a perfectly viable one at that. The whole "infinitely small" aiming point is mostly good marketing. That's not how our visual perception works. It is however, a better precision aiming point than a giant dot.
ILya
Is there still going to be a GLX 1-10? I’m not seeing a preorder on the website.New GLx LPVOs including the FFP 1-6X out of the Philippines and GLx FFP 1-10 out of Japan, that were announced last year, got caught up in COVID and supply chain delays. Both are very close. I will get updated ETAs
All three reticle versions are now available for pre-order on their website.Bump for this? Any updates?
Thanks! I’ve actually had one preordered for about 6 weeks now. Was hoping for a shipping update. Last we heard from Marsh was that the units were in, but they were waiting on packaging to arrive. He said he’d be looking into shipping some without the fancy packaging. Im down for that if it can happen…All three reticle versions are now available for pre-order on their website.
I would PM himThanks! I’ve actually had one preordered for about 6 weeks now. Was hoping for a shipping update. Last we heard from Marsh was that the units were in, but they were waiting on packaging to arrive. He said he’d be looking into shipping some without the fancy packaging. Im down for that if it can happen…
Sorry, misunderstood and I saw the meters and griffin had just popped up for presale.Thanks! I’ve actually had one preordered for about 6 weeks now. Was hoping for a shipping update. Last we heard from Marsh was that the units were in, but they were waiting on packaging to arrive. He said he’d be looking into shipping some without the fancy packaging. Im down for that if it can happen…
You happen to get your hands on yours yet??Thanks! I’ve actually had one preordered for about 6 weeks now. Was hoping for a shipping update. Last we heard from Marsh was that the units were in, but they were waiting on packaging to arrive. He said he’d be looking into shipping some without the fancy packaging. Im down for that if it can happen…
Not yet, DMing Marsh now to ask if there’s a possability…You happen to get your hands on yours yet??
My unit is inbound. Will probably be several days before I can get first shots on it but when I do I’ll report back!Not yet, DMing Marsh now to ask if there’s a possability…
I'm jealous! Can't wait to hear what you think!My unit is inbound. Will probably be several days before I can get first shots on it but when I do I’ll report back!
Totally agree with this. I’ve shot what feels like every LPVO out there and I currently have the Athlon ETR 1-10 (FFP). This scope is nearly perfect for me, but yet falls short on 1x. The ghost ring stadia lines are too thin on 1x and even though the illumination is actually pretty bright, it is still kind of hard to pick up sometimes. Everything else about this scope is awesome (minus the 26oz weight, but I can live with that.).The problem is that does not work in alot of environments. Go from dark to light, In bright conditions, ect.
This is nothing new, we have known it for over 20 years when the first Shortdot was specced and created for Delta. They wanted the ability to reach out a bit further to hit partial targets as well as PID. This is why the LPV was created.
If you cannot run it like an aimpoint on 1x, you are losing the where you need it the most. At close distances, speed wins. Its why people still run AP and eotechs. Might as well get a 2-7 or 3-10 optic with a Red dot on top of it (which coincidentally is what some people are doing with 1-10/8's so they don't have to go back and forth with the mag ring.). As distance increases you get more forgiveness and "time" to put accurate shots on target.
The single MOST important feature on a LPV is an "aimpoint bright" dot or aiming reticle on 1x. Everything else is secondary.
To my knowledge there is no LPVO on the market easier to get behind than the Razor 1-6x, so you either need to train more or stick with red dots, because buying a different scope is unlikely to solve this problem.I am brand new to LPVOs and used the Razor in the first two TTG and the second one gave me fits shooting behind a VTAC with scope shadow, etc. I couldn't find the reticle to save my life.
Whether your reticle is MIL/MOA or BDC it sounds like you'll still be using it like a BDC, so it might not really matter. BDC will probably be easier/faster to use but potentially less precise. FFP will be better if you're using intermediate magnification at ranges where holdover is required, if you always crank to max it doesn't really matter. There are plenty of other pros/cons but for your uses those are probably the biggest considerations.I also don't know if a BDC reticle or MIL/MOA is better for my type of shooting either. I don't have time to dial dope nor do I have time (or the capacity) to remember different holds at different magnifications. Am I correct in thinking FFP might be a better option for me?
The Vortex 1-6 is ideal for the TTG. When using the VTAC barricade remember that if you tilt the rifle to the left, you have to aim a little high and to the right. You just have to practice at different ranges to get your holds. It just takes practice.Hopefully you guys can help a newb out. I have taken a liking to The Tactical Games and trying to figure out the best optic for me. I currently have a Vortex GII-E 1-6 Razor and a Sig 4T (with BDC) + 4X magnifier. I am brand new to LPVOs and used the Razor in the first two TTG and the second one gave me fits shooting behind a VTAC with scope shadow, etc. I couldn't find the reticle to save my life.
I come from a background of using red dots at close ranges. TTG is basically a crossfit style workout with shooting (AR/Pistol) during the workout. Speed is not necessarily a priority but precision is. Each miss is a 10 second penalty off your total time. Shooting through the VTAC we had to hit 2" dots at 20, 40, 60 yards so knowing holds was important. I didn't realize holds were completely different from 1x-6x on the Razor. Or at least didn't think it was enough to make a difference. Maybe it isn't. I still don't really know. LOL That's why I was stuck on FFP for a LPVO. Same holds at every magnification.
I have been eyeing this LPVO for a while now (1-8x plus light weight). I'm a bit of a brand snob (just saying how it is) but I do have PA optics (1-6x FFP ACSS, RDS, new Prism, and a 4-14x). I have been looking at the Razor 1-10, Vudu 1-10, PLx 1-8, NX8, ATACR, to name a few. We very seldom shoot out past 300 yards but will shoot from compromised positions a lot.
I also don't know if a BDC reticle or MIL/MOA is better for my type of shooting either. I don't have time to dial dope nor do I have time (or the capacity) to remember different holds at different magnifications. Am I correct in thinking FFP might be a better option for me?
Any help is greatly appreciated. I'm using the Sig 4T + 4X magnifier this weekend so I'll get an idea how that works vs the Razor.
To my knowledge there is no LPVO on the market easier to get behind than the Razor 1-6x, so you either need to train more or stick with red dots, because buying a different scope is unlikely to solve this problem.
Whether your reticle is MIL/MOA or BDC it sounds like you'll still be using it like a BDC, so it might not really matter. BDC will probably be easier/faster to use but potentially less precise. FFP will be better if you're using intermediate magnification at ranges where holdover is required, if you always crank to max it doesn't really matter. There are plenty of other pros/cons but for your uses those are probably the biggest considerations.
The Vortex 1-6 is ideal for the TTG. When using the VTAC barricade remember that if you tilt the rifle to the left, you have to aim a little high and to the right. You just have to practice at different ranges to get your holds. It just takes practice.
Out to 300 years, either set-up will work. But even with a red dot, if you tilt your rifle, the same still applies.
Theoretically this is all correct. But typically any hold overs/unders inside of 200 yards won't be represented by any of the coarser reticles in LPVO's, it's on you to remember the relatively close range holds regardless of of focal plane location.You're probably right. Actually, I know you're right. LOL That's where I thought FFP may be an advantage. When shooting from compromised positions I could dial down to 3-4x, get a better eyebox, and still have some magnification to get accurate hits. In a bench rest type shooting position I could dial up and not worry so much about the eyebox issues? Would this be correct?
Most people do seem to either use minimum or maximum magnification in LPVO's. I guess I'm the oddball that uses 2-4x a lot inside of 200 yards with SFP scopes, and like I said above, there aren't even hashes for me to use inside of those ranges, it's all about knowing I've got roughly 1" hold under from 60-90 yards (inconsequential for any match shooting I do, but sounds like it might be pertinent to you) 2" hold under from 100-170 yards, then pretty much dead hold from there to 220. And that's all done off of the center dot.Using the 1-6x Razor will the holdovers be that drastic at different magnifications? I plugged numbers into Strelok and got at 1x 50/200, 7/593, 4/844, 1/1044. At 6x 23/290, 15/395, 10/496, 7/596. It's my understanding most people use SFP at either 1x or 6x (max magnification) and zero on max magnification? That's where I thought FFP and dialing down while maintaining the same holds would help.
I think I'm gonna go ahead and use the Razor 1-6x this weekend and look at a good FFP for my next events. I think a LPVO long-term (rather than a rds + magnifier) is what I need to use if I'm going to get better and more accurate at longer more difficult shots.Theoretically this is all correct. But typically any hold overs/unders inside of 200 yards won't be represented by any of the coarser reticles in LPVO's, it's on you to remember the relatively close range holds regardless of of focal plane location.
Most people do seem to either use minimum or maximum magnification in LPVO's. I guess I'm the oddball that uses 2-4x a lot inside of 200 yards with SFP scopes, and like I said above, there aren't even hashes for me to use inside of those ranges, it's all about knowing I've got roughly 1" hold under from 60-90 yards (inconsequential for any match shooting I do, but sounds like it might be pertinent to you) 2" hold under from 100-170 yards, then pretty much dead hold from there to 220. And that's all done off of the center dot.
Depends on distance. If it's in front of your zero distance the hold will be opposite than if the target is further than your zero distance.Yeah, I learned that the hard way at the last TTG. LOL I totally held the opposite way while shooting horizontally through the VTAC. I think my heart rate may have played into that as well. LOL Thanks!
Depends on distance. If it's in front of your zero distance the hold will be opposite than if the target is further than your zero distance.
Yeah, I don't want to hack up the thread but probably a dead hold there would be fine. Sight height over bore you have to watch on a VTAC when completely horizontal. Because my scope is very low, I have less hold issues and it's also much easier to acquire your eyebox. If your running a high mount it can be trickier.I use a 50/200 zero so under 50 aim a little high, 50-200 aim a little low, 200 plus aim a little high. Pretty negligible until 300 yards. I think 223/556 drops about 7" or so at 300 yards and stays within 1.5-2" inside 200 yards?
This target was past 50 yards (maybe 80 yards, can't remember exactly) and I held off left edge (leaning left) and I think I was missing left but couldn't see where I was missing or would've adjusted. The target was big enough, and close enough, I probably should've just held center and would've been fine. At least I think this would be correct. LOL
Learning a lot after three Tactical Games (Skirmishes). All this seems pretty simple after the fact. We had to hit 6" plates at about 70 yards this past weekend and I just held dead center and did just fine. Other than a double-feed
That's good to hear. My PLx Compact gets delivered tomorrow. I'm pretty excited to get my hands on it.So just a quick comparison update, I was on vacation near a buds gun shop which had an NX8 1-8 sitting out for display. So I grabbed it up to do a quick look through and I could immediately tell why people complain about the eyebox and eye relief. It is definitely noticeable compared to others and the PLx compact is noticeably better then it. Not really close imo. Just thought I would throw this out there for those looking at the PLx .
I echo everything you just said. I got mine today, and in the first few hours that I've had my hands on it, I have to say that it's my top all-around LPVO thus far!Just posting a follow up to my previous post, which was written shortly after I received the optic and had not even leveled or zeroed yet. Since then, I have leveled, zeroed, and have shot about 120 rounds so far.
The PLx Compact is seriously excellent. In my opinion, this is the best overall LPVO I've handled to date. No, I haven't handled everything, but I have handled most of the top performers in the category. Some optics might have slightly better eye box or eye relief, some might be a bit lighter weight, some might have brighter illumination, etc - but none of them does EVERYTHING as well as this optic does everything.
On top of that, I believe this optic is sporting the first true 1x image I've seen in an LPVO. Or, if its not true 1x, its so close that I can't tell a difference. This is the first time I've been able to say that about an LPVO. Granted, my 38 year old eyes aren't what they were when I was 20, but they aren't far off yet, either. There's a little distortion near the edges of the glass, but not much. The object I'm looking at, though, absolutely does not change whatsoever when I move the optic in and out of my line of sight. Serious win here.
The illumination, while bright, is not "red dot bright." I do not think this detracts from the effectiveness of the optic in any way. In bright sunlight, you get better contrast with the black etched reticle than you would with an illuminated reticle or red dot anyway. The compressed horseshoe dot (compared to the previous PLx) is dense enough that you're not searching for it, and the stadia lines do a great job of naturally focusing your eye to the center anyway. Really, really well done.
I have to say, this optic sits more to the center of my Goldilocks zone of ass-kickery than any LPVO I've seen. Excellent design and excellent implementation. I'm proud to own this optic, and I'm sure I'll be watching my rounds impact through this glass for years to come.
When you are using the exposed turret, does it lock or have Zero Stop?Just posting a follow up to my previous post, which was written shortly after I received the optic and had not even leveled or zeroed yet. Since then, I have leveled, zeroed, and have shot about 120 rounds so far.
The PLx Compact is seriously excellent. In my opinion, this is the best overall LPVO I've handled to date. No, I haven't handled everything, but I have handled most of the top performers in the category. Some optics might have slightly better eye box or eye relief, some might be a bit lighter weight, some might have brighter illumination, etc - but none of them does EVERYTHING as well as this optic does everything.
On top of that, I believe this optic is sporting the first true 1x image I've seen in an LPVO. Or, if its not true 1x, its so close that I can't tell a difference. This is the first time I've been able to say that about an LPVO. Granted, my 38 year old eyes aren't what they were when I was 20, but they aren't far off yet, either. There's a little distortion near the edges of the glass, but not much. The object I'm looking at, though, absolutely does not change whatsoever when I move the optic in and out of my line of sight. Serious win here.
The illumination, while bright, is not "red dot bright." I do not think this detracts from the effectiveness of the optic in any way. In bright sunlight, you get better contrast with the black etched reticle than you would with an illuminated reticle or red dot anyway. The compressed horseshoe dot (compared to the previous PLx) is dense enough that you're not searching for it, and the stadia lines do a great job of naturally focusing your eye to the center. Really, really well done.
I have to say, this optic sits more to the center of my Goldilocks zone of ass-kickery than any LPVO I've seen. Excellent design and excellent implementation. I'm proud to own this optic, and I'm sure I'll be watching my rounds impact through this glass for years to come.
Sorry I have not been around for a few week. For some reason I stopped getting email update on the thread. I shipped pre orders for people that said they were OK with white box and digital manuals. We not have boxes and manuals but not the outer sleeve. Just PM me if you have a pre order and want it shipped with partial packaging.
It does not have a zero stop or turret lock, but I'm not using exposed turrets. I use them to adjust the zero, then cap them.When you are using the exposed turret, does it lock or have Zero Stop?