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Rifle Scopes New Primary Arms PLXC 1-8 FFP
- Thread starter 308ftWIN
- Start date
First batch is here. We are just waiting for the US sourced packaging to arrive.
Could you tell us if the pre-orders have exceeded the quantity of the first batch being released? Thanks!
CM
I have one on order, and fingers crossed it in the first batch. Looking forward to checking it out. I already owned two of the first version and they were phenomenal. To my eyes there was no distortion on 1x and the edge to edge was clear. I thought they were better all around then my Razor 1-6x, especially at 1x, which at the time were only a couple oz lighter so I sold them and kept the PLX's.
If these are even a smidgen better then they will be outstanding when you add the lighter weight. Only reason I sold off my original PLX's wea they were heavy and the NX8 was coming out at 18oz, but that was a wash because I didn't like the reticle no where near as much.
If these are even a smidgen better then they will be outstanding when you add the lighter weight. Only reason I sold off my original PLX's wea they were heavy and the NX8 was coming out at 18oz, but that was a wash because I didn't like the reticle no where near as much.
In the past they have refused to provide subtension measurements for meters-based Aurora reticles. The claim is that it would work too well with 5.45x39 outside the U.S.
That doesn’t make any sense because it could just be measured by a foreign military anyway if they got their hands on one of the optics. And the foreign militaries are going to know their drops for 5.45x39 anyway too. But it’s what I’ve been told and is what has kept me from buying an Aurora reticle optic.
It’s why you won’t find the PA meters-based reticles on Strelok.
You can probably take their non-dimensioned reticle images (if they’re high resolution) and do pixel counts to determine subtension measurements. You just need to have a known size line somewhere on the reticle. This is, of course, dependent on the reticle image being to scale. I did it with the Aurora reticle, but I could not verify my measurements.
I’m off my game today, a bit run down but can’t you just stick a CM meter stick at 100M and measure the shit yourself? We used to do it with Mildot reticle all the time to mark where the 2FP scopes actually subtended.
You're right, which makes it so odd to not publish the information. All that does is frustrate the buyers, like me, that want to see the differences between the two BDC reticles. Or be able use Strelok...
Huh. I was waiting to see the meters reticle hit Strelok just in case the BDC happened to be closer to my loads than the yards version. Apparently I won't be doing that.
If you own the optic, yes. But not if subtension BDC measurements are a factor in your purchase.
Hopefully they change their policy, as they check this thread.
Pre orders will not be available once that happens. We are trying to get all the new reticles in Strelok
If some folks who are able could do some side by side comparisons and confirm that these don’t have the same retarded eye box as the NX8, I’m hella interested in one for sure. Meters one specifically because I like the larger horseshoe. All the other specs are so close to the NX8 that I’m really concerned about that eye box.
I will give my initial impressions when it arrives, should be in the next week or two.
From an email update from Koshkin/DLO this morning -
"Primary Arms PLx Compact 1-8x24
The tradeshow I was at is finally over. I am wiped out and my brain needs to switch to something not related to my dayjob in order to relax. What better topic than a new riflescope? I could write something about politics, but that just gets my already caffeine fueled blood pressure to go even higher. Optics it is, then.
This scope appears to be on the verge of becoming available and I will have a video review ready soon enough. I have been spending quite a bit of time with it and have been getting a good amount of questions about it. Given the scope's imminently approaching availability, I think I should flat out state what I think of it so far.
Honestly, between the prismatics and this LPVO, Primary Arms has been absolutely on a roll lately. There will be more details in the video, but to be blunt, the scope kicks ass and is an absolute shot across the bow for Vortex, Nightforce and others.
It is essentially the size of NX8 1-8x24 (half inch longer and half ounce lighter) without any of the NX8's optical compromises. Optically, it is competitive with the the ATACR 1-8x24 and Razor Gen3 1-10x24. I expect to be competitive mechanically as well given which OEM makes it and how PA does QC.
The design of this scope appears to be unique and I am not aware of any other scope with which it shares an optical system, at least from the standpoint of what I can see without opening it up.
The reticle in the one I have is the metric BDC version, which is a little different from the imperial BDC reticle listed on their website. There are supposed to be three reticles eventually: two BDC ones and a new version of Griffin MIL. Personally, I would probably prefer the non-BDC mrad reticle in it. However, of the three reticles, the one I have has the largest horseshoe which likely gives it the most visibility on 1x. I am not big on BDC designs, as most of you know, but this one is pretty workable. Since it is conventional etch-and-fill illumination, having a large horseshoe is pretty important for reticle visibility. As is, the scope is a really flexible cross platform design that is somewhat limited by the BDC reticle. To be fair, it will make ACSS groupies happy and it is a really good option for the majority of what a typical user will do with this reticle. Most will go onto 5.56 AR-15s and ,if I were to guess, about 60% of people who will buy this scope will never do anything beyond bench shooting inside of 200 yards and the rest are unlikely to ever look at a target beyond 500 yards. From an optomechanical standpoint, the AR I would like to put it on regularly sees distances beyond 800 yards, partially because I am a weird freak who likes to shoot far and partially because I live at altitude that allows for this kind of stuff. Since the BDC reticle in mine is in meters, I can adapt it easily enough to the distances I shoot at.Nightforce and Vortex use diffractive reticles in their high end LPVOs, so the reticle illumination is brighter, but the new PLxC is no slouch and the eyepiece is really nicely done. It is easy to get behind. FOV is wide.
Distortion is really minimal. Black ring around the image is barely there.
To re-iterate: aside from the diffractive reticle, it is a scope the size of NX8 that competes with ATACR and Razor Gen3. It clocks in at $1500, so we are talking significantly less money than its competitors. That's sort of a big deal in the LPVO world.
I've got it in PA's new single piece PLx mount that weighs in just under 6 ounces. Together, scope and mount are just under 23 ounces. It is easily one of the lighter high quality options out there.
Now, onto the potential pitfalls:
1) the scope is new, so the durability will only be determined as more of these get out there
2) reticle illumination is quite good, but not nuclear bright like diffractive reticles are
3) depth of field is pretty good given how compact the design is, but is still a bit on the shallow side. The only time where you can kinda see it is when looking far away. It is better at distance than the NX8, but not as good as the ATACR. We are talking beyond 600 yards, so it is a limited use case.
PLxC 1-8x24 scope: https://bit.ly/3rc92gZ
Cantilever 30mm PLx mount: https://bit.ly/3jnmTwx
Note: through the scope pictures I attached are only there to show you what the reticle looks like. They are taken handheld with a cellphone and are no intended for demonstrating image quality the scope is capable of.
From an email update from Koshkin/DLO this morning -
"Primary Arms PLx Compact 1-8x24
The tradeshow I was at is finally over. I am wiped out and my brain needs to switch to something not related to my dayjob in order to relax. What better topic than a new riflescope? I could write something about politics, but that just gets my already caffeine fueled blood pressure to go even higher. Optics it is, then.
This scope appears to be on the verge of becoming available and I will have a video review ready soon enough. I have been spending quite a bit of time with it and have been getting a good amount of questions about it. Given the scope's imminently approaching availability, I think I should flat out state what I think of it so far.
Honestly, between the prismatics and this LPVO, Primary Arms has been absolutely on a roll lately. There will be more details in the video, but to be blunt, the scope kicks ass and is an absolute shot across the bow for Vortex, Nightforce and others.
It is essentially the size of NX8 1-8x24 (half inch longer and half ounce lighter) without any of the NX8's optical compromises. Optically, it is competitive with the the ATACR 1-8x24 and Razor Gen3 1-10x24. I expect to be competitive mechanically as well given which OEM makes it and how PA does QC.
The design of this scope appears to be unique and I am not aware of any other scope with which it shares an optical system, at least from the standpoint of what I can see without opening it up.
The reticle in the one I have is the metric BDC version, which is a little different from the imperial BDC reticle listed on their website. There are supposed to be three reticles eventually: two BDC ones and a new version of Griffin MIL. Personally, I would probably prefer the non-BDC mrad reticle in it. However, of the three reticles, the one I have has the largest horseshoe which likely gives it the most visibility on 1x. I am not big on BDC designs, as most of you know, but this one is pretty workable. Since it is conventional etch-and-fill illumination, having a large horseshoe is pretty important for reticle visibility. As is, the scope is a really flexible cross platform design that is somewhat limited by the BDC reticle. To be fair, it will make ACSS groupies happy and it is a really good option for the majority of what a typical user will do with this reticle. Most will go onto 5.56 AR-15s and ,if I were to guess, about 60% of people who will buy this scope will never do anything beyond bench shooting inside of 200 yards and the rest are unlikely to ever look at a target beyond 500 yards. From an optomechanical standpoint, the AR I would like to put it on regularly sees distances beyond 800 yards, partially because I am a weird freak who likes to shoot far and partially because I live at altitude that allows for this kind of stuff. Since the BDC reticle in mine is in meters, I can adapt it easily enough to the distances I shoot at.Nightforce and Vortex use diffractive reticles in their high end LPVOs, so the reticle illumination is brighter, but the new PLxC is no slouch and the eyepiece is really nicely done. It is easy to get behind. FOV is wide.
Distortion is really minimal. Black ring around the image is barely there.
To re-iterate: aside from the diffractive reticle, it is a scope the size of NX8 that competes with ATACR and Razor Gen3. It clocks in at $1500, so we are talking significantly less money than its competitors. That's sort of a big deal in the LPVO world.
I've got it in PA's new single piece PLx mount that weighs in just under 6 ounces. Together, scope and mount are just under 23 ounces. It is easily one of the lighter high quality options out there.
Now, onto the potential pitfalls:
1) the scope is new, so the durability will only be determined as more of these get out there
2) reticle illumination is quite good, but not nuclear bright like diffractive reticles are
3) depth of field is pretty good given how compact the design is, but is still a bit on the shallow side. The only time where you can kinda see it is when looking far away. It is better at distance than the NX8, but not as good as the ATACR. We are talking beyond 600 yards, so it is a limited use case.
PLxC 1-8x24 scope: https://bit.ly/3rc92gZ
Cantilever 30mm PLx mount: https://bit.ly/3jnmTwx
Note: through the scope pictures I attached are only there to show you what the reticle looks like. They are taken handheld with a cellphone and are no intended for demonstrating image quality the scope is capable of.
- NX8
106.0 ft @ 100 Yards (1x)
13.2 ft @ 100 Yards (8x) - Exit Pupil:7.9 - 3 mm
- Eye Relief:95.3 mm / 3.75"
- Scope Length:8.75"
Exit Pupil Diameter Low: 8mm / High: 3mm
Eye Relief Low: 3.2 in / High: 3.7 in
Field View 100Low: 121 ft / High: 14.6 ft
Length 9.28 in.
I really liked my NX8 and didn't have a problem with the eye box until at 8x when that humungous center dot got in they way at distance.
I think the PA will be quite a bit better being it also has close specs to the older model PLX 1-8 34mm which I thought the eyebox blew the NX8 out of the water, but man that thing was heavy at 27oz. The weight was the only thing I didn't like about it.
They should be shipping sometime soon from what Marsh posted here a day ago, and if I get one before anyone post their experience here with it I chime in with mine.
The specs being close but better then the NX8 are what's drawing me to the new PA along with what I think will be a far superior reticle IMHO, YMMV though.
I'm sure some self proclaimed wanabe (batshit crazy, narcissistic ) operators will be in here telling me I'm going to die on the battlefield if I get one of these
Finger banged one today at a PA Govt Sales display table. You guys that ordered one will like it. And comparing it to the old Platinum 1-8x the new version is wayyyyyyy lighter. The new premium scope mount is nice as well.
Glass seemed bright and clear and eye box wasn’t bad at all. I don’t have experience with a LPVO NX8 so I can’t comment.
Glass seemed bright and clear and eye box wasn’t bad at all. I don’t have experience with a LPVO NX8 so I can’t comment.
As gbaby showed, the exit pupil diameters and eye relief distances are nearly identical. So the eye box is likely to be so as well.
However, and it’s a big however, the field of view is a good bit better with the PLX 1-8, so the eye piece ring around the ocular lens should nearly disappear like the Vortex Razor. Actually, the field of view is better than the Razor, on paper.
So that’s a pretty big factor in usability at 1x, but the 8x eye box is probably just about the same as the NX8.
Ultimately, I think it will come down to reticle preference and “red dot brightness” for most people who are cross shopping. I’ll probably give the meters PLx a go based on the weight, field of view, and being .1 mil adjustments. I’m not keen on chevrons in my reticles, but I like a lot of the other reticle features.
Not trying to be obtuse but I’m not sure why you would say the eyebox is the same as the NX8 when a reputed optics reviewer has had this optic in hand for a while and said the eyebox is better? I understand there are limitations to these designs and I agree the 8x will be tighter than 1x but I’m excited for the PLX C regardless.
PA, if you’re listening, please consider a version without the chevron as the aiming point. I’m not totally against it but this will be my only scope with a chevron as an aiming point and it would be nice to have the option to keep it consistent. I know you’ve mentioned the possibility of a more expensive version with different (brighter) illumination in the future. If you did that and made the reticle closer to the NF FC-DMx or Vortex EBR-9 reticles (MIL not BDC) I think you’d have a scope that may become the new standard assuming it is durable.
So far the eyebox on any manufactures optic at full mag that goes above 6x is going to be tight. That's just the way it is. I never had a problem with the NX8 at 8x except for the large center dot.
Looks like it's a sure thing the new PA is going to be much much better at 1x vs the NX8, and will have a better reticle at 8x so it should be a winner for me. I'll be the judge of that for myself when I get one mounted.
We can all try the best we can to try and communicate over the internet how good an optic is to somewhat help with others deciding whether to get one or not, but the only real way to tell how each individual is going to perceive it will be to look through one themselves in the long run.
I could get mine in the next couple of weeks and be totally blown away by it, and sing it's praises here and there, but than maybe some resident "operator" will get one and hate it for their "needs" and say I'm a total moron for liking mine.
We'll all try to live vicariously through other members experiences here in the hopes that we can make a discission on whether to purchase something or not, but in the end it will be up to you to experience it and decide for yourself.
I know for myself many many times I was blown away by something new that was out, and once I started to use it enough, I would find something I may not like about it and that's when you have to decide is it worth that particular compromise to keep using it.
Right on, I misunderstood then. 8x will be tighter regardless of size but I thought you were saying 1x would be the same as the NX8.
Looking forward to more reports on this one too until they let me order the MIL reticle!
Eye relief and exit pupil diameter are pretty deterministic on the eye box. That’s why I said what I did.
But there is the qualifier that I mentioned about the field of view. So, even as you start to get scope shadow while moving out of the eye box, there will be a point where even with scope shadow you will have the same field of view as the NX8 without scope shadow. This will have a larger influence at 1x than 8x as the fields of view are a lot closer between the two at 8x. And to clarify, I mean closer in linear measurement, not angular measurement.
The field of view at 1x is a big deal, which is why I said it was a “big however”.
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Gotcha, that makes sense. I assume that if the objective is increased (larger exit pupil) then the depth of field decreases? I’m sure there was a reason they went 24mm and not 28mm (probably has to do with 30mm tube)
All other things equal, yes a larger objective lens will decrease depth of field. With an 8x or 10x top end and with no parallax adjustment, I’d prefer to have a 24mm objective over a 28mm for an LPVO on a carbine designed for engagements out to 600+ yards. But if the carbine’s primary purpose was as a hunting rifle within 200 yards, then I’d rather have the larger objective to get more light in at dawn and dusk. It’s all a trade space depending on use cases.
Probably. I went and visited PA a little while back, so I was able to take a look at the pre-production 1-6x and 1-10x GLx scopes. They looked pretty good. I did a re-cap of the visit on my website: https://darklordofoptics.locals.com/post/1782777/visiting-primary-arms
The upcoming GLx scopes are really interesting.
ILya
Looking forward to you PLx Compact 1-8 review
Some impressions are here: https://darklordofoptics.locals.com/post/1969017/primary-arms-plx-compact-1-8x24
I'll have a video up once I spend a week or so in home. My work went nuts, so I have a grand total of six days at home in April scattered through the month.
ILya
9 Hole Reviews just uploaded a video where they use it on a Scar 16 and discuss the optic for a few minutes at the 23 min mark. Seems to be pretty positive so far, although they do say the clarity wasn't as good as the original, possibly because of less depth of field as koshkin described?
I mean the orginial PLx is ridiculously clear, it felt better than my old nx8, accupower 1-8, or razor gen 3 imo.
I had the NX8 and sold it because of the lack of clarity. I got the ACOG due to clarity and because it is so light weight. For a brief period I owned both at the same time. I went shooting at dusk/evening twilight and the ACOG with its 4 power was more useable to me than the NX8 at 8 power at distance. Maybe the ACOG had better illumination too which might also have contributed to it.
I also had the old PLX which had solid clarity (not quite as good as the ACOG but better than the NX8, closer to the ACOG) but I sold that due to it being stupid heavy for a LVPO. I am still eyeing the new PLX though.
This supply chain shit is getting out of hand. I have scopes in hand that took many many months to develop and bring to market and now there are paper shortages and we are waiting on US sourced packaging. If it goes into next week we will email people that have a pre order in and see if they want it without the fancy box.
Sorry just the Raptor reticle version that is up on our website for pre-order
The scope arrived today, it hasn't been mounted so this is just looking through it in my hand where it's hard to tell about something like eyebox or eye relief compared to others. However, my initial impressions are as follows.
#1- Fit and finish is excellent. The scope feels and looks really nice. The magnification ring is very smooth. The "knurling" on the mag ring, the scope caps the illumination dial are just really well done and feel great. The included throw lever gets the job done. It also comes with a little rubber bikini cover that is a nice touch.
#2- The turrets feel really good for an lpvo. This is kinda hard because I don't really foresee dialing with this, but you could do it if you wanted. The clicks are positive and tactile. They feel like a top quality LPVO should IMO, they aren't as good as a top PRS scope.
#3-Glass- So the glass is really stellar. I am seeing little to no fish eye and the glass is clear and bright edge to edge. The bezel also disappears like a Razor 1-6, I mean, it may be better... somehow. They really did a lot of work here to achieve this I'm sure, but the FOV and the disappearing bezel effect make this absolutely a thrill to look through.
#4- Reticle and illumination - The illumination dial is positive and stays in place once set. It has off in between each setting. It goes to 10. The Illumination is going to be daylight visible or daylight bright according to your definition. Most would consider it daylight visible on here, I think that's what I would say, it's right on the edge like the old one. But here's the thing, with this reticle I don't think it really matters. Having the stadia or the crosshairs with the ACSS reticle on the center was an absolutely brilliant move by PA and is exactly what this(and all FFP LPVOs imo) need. It looks like a SFP crosshair LPVO on 1x then scales accordingly as you go up.
#5 It's insanely lightweight! But it still feels sturdy.
More to come, this is just first impressions in hand, but man this thing is shaping up to be spectacular.
PS, I have hands on experience with these other LPVOs- Primary arms 1-6, Swampfox Arrowhead 1-10, Vortex PST 1-6 gen II, Tract toric 1-8, Delta Stryker 1-6, Vortex Razor 1-6, Vortex Razor 1-6 gen 2e, Vortex Razor 1-10 gen III.
#1- Fit and finish is excellent. The scope feels and looks really nice. The magnification ring is very smooth. The "knurling" on the mag ring, the scope caps the illumination dial are just really well done and feel great. The included throw lever gets the job done. It also comes with a little rubber bikini cover that is a nice touch.
#2- The turrets feel really good for an lpvo. This is kinda hard because I don't really foresee dialing with this, but you could do it if you wanted. The clicks are positive and tactile. They feel like a top quality LPVO should IMO, they aren't as good as a top PRS scope.
#3-Glass- So the glass is really stellar. I am seeing little to no fish eye and the glass is clear and bright edge to edge. The bezel also disappears like a Razor 1-6, I mean, it may be better... somehow. They really did a lot of work here to achieve this I'm sure, but the FOV and the disappearing bezel effect make this absolutely a thrill to look through.
#4- Reticle and illumination - The illumination dial is positive and stays in place once set. It has off in between each setting. It goes to 10. The Illumination is going to be daylight visible or daylight bright according to your definition. Most would consider it daylight visible on here, I think that's what I would say, it's right on the edge like the old one. But here's the thing, with this reticle I don't think it really matters. Having the stadia or the crosshairs with the ACSS reticle on the center was an absolutely brilliant move by PA and is exactly what this(and all FFP LPVOs imo) need. It looks like a SFP crosshair LPVO on 1x then scales accordingly as you go up.
#5 It's insanely lightweight! But it still feels sturdy.
More to come, this is just first impressions in hand, but man this thing is shaping up to be spectacular.
PS, I have hands on experience with these other LPVOs- Primary arms 1-6, Swampfox Arrowhead 1-10, Vortex PST 1-6 gen II, Tract toric 1-8, Delta Stryker 1-6, Vortex Razor 1-6, Vortex Razor 1-6 gen 2e, Vortex Razor 1-10 gen III.
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Holy crap that disappearing bezel and FOV is beautiful. Can we get some 8x pics please?
It's the Illuminated ACSS Raptor M8 Yard 5.56 / .308 Reticle.
Yes to pics at 8x momentarily.
I also forgot to add that the turrets come capped, but they send an exposed turret that you can swap out for the elevation capped turret. Reminds me of what Burris did with the XtrII 1-8, a nice option for shooters.
It's flat. Have to get it mounted and compare to really get a better read. However, my eye is not trained well enough to tell a .01 difference between 1x and .99x. Of all the LPVOs I have looked through, this seems to be one of if not the best 1x experience I've seen.
Also, the diopter has not been set for the truest 1x yet.
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