I’m lucky enough to shoot on our farm. So I don’t have the typical “range bag” because my trips are often short, last minute decisions. If I had to drive to a range and spend the whole day I would definitely have a traditional range bag
Rifle Scopes New Razor????
- Thread starter Tigerfan601
- Start date
What's the point of having an MSRP if street price on day 1 is 25% off...
I think the point still applies with regard to glass - it's 2X the street price of the G2, which is also increasing by ~500? Thinking optimistically, I expect the glass is upgraded on both.
They use the msrp for prize table certs, mil/le, and any other discounts.
G2 price is increasing because of universal price increases on just about any material or component you can name in any industry.
I'd rather have the actual price be 25% LESS than MSRP, whereas trying to buy a new car right now you'll pay MORE than the sticker MSRP.
Sorry if this has already been posted, I just don’t see people paying ZCO or Tangent money for a vortex.
That is a pretty presumptive response considering you don't know what the optics look like in the new Vortex. If it has as good of optical quality at $3000 vs the ZCO or Tangent I think that would be a pretty good deal.
And I bet that the MSRP is what is used for the tax write off for these donations, etc.
I’m sure there’s many reasons.
It is interesting that everyone has seen much higher msrp than street price on the vortex site for like……ever.
But using the msrp on this one to dig at it.
The gen 2 was like $3500 msrp for quite a while. This isn’t something new.
Vortex mentions in their video better glass than G2.
My personal opinion but a 3lb 3-18 tactical style is not as desired vs. lighter versions, competition market doesn't care as much about weight. Can I hope for a 2.5-15x44 G3 or a 3.5-21x50 G3 that is around the 30 oz mark
I hope you're right that they do have something else planned to fill the niche.If you are being serious, Vortex still lists the glass as "HD" but that really doesn't mean much, there are some very poor optics that advertise ED and some very excellent optics that advertise HD. What matters is how the glass actually performs in the field.
This along with the ZCO 840 will be very popular on Rimfire. Just like the 7-35 atacr
Big magnification + close parallax on both = awesome.
I do personally wish vortex would offer a non tree, but tree reticles outsell them significantly, so I get it.
Big magnification + close parallax on both = awesome.
I do personally wish vortex would offer a non tree, but tree reticles outsell them significantly, so I get it.
To be fair, the Tangent Theta has the best toolless design IMHO and it is convenient. Do all scopes need to be toolless, that would be nice but not necessary - I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that it is more expensive to make a good toolless design, so any company looking to make the product more cost effective is probably going to toss that idea out pretty quick. That said, what I do like about the new L-TEC+ is the exposed infinite adjustment plate on top - for my switch barrel AI here's what I'm thinking, I can take a marker and identify the zero for each barrel (on both elev and wind plates), that way, when I swap a barrel I already have an indication of where it needs to be set.
Agreed, huge market for rimfire competition crowd, that's really where I see the high magnification (30x+) optics shining as atmospherics and high magnification often do not play nicely with long range.
Seems to me, 6-36x56 was a specific response to the NF 7-35x56, but with much better FOV and shoot, the G3 FOV is better at 6x than even the ATACR 5-25 is at 5x.
I do not mind tree reticles if the tree is made up of dots, Vortex has done a good job with their designs of late so they don't obscure the view as much as solid horizontal line tree reticles like the SKMR and MPCT series have. I do wish Vortex would have made a half mil hash mark in the vertical stadia.
Not in the market for another high dollar scope at the moment; but, the turrets are definitely nice. However, much like my only real disappointment with my Gen III 1-10x, I'd like to know how good the glass is. The 1-10x gets significantly darker past 8x and the eye box completely shuts down for me at about that point too. I'll be curious to read the reviews...especially Bill's (should he be reviewing it).
In EO's video, they show what I experience on my 6-36 scope at the 8:40 mark. I would be curious why Vortex decided to go with a more subdued turret click sound, but I do agree, the turret is very well defined with very little play that settles in nicely to each .1 click value. I will try to get a preliminary review going compared to some other optics I have on hand, but if there is anything specific someone would like me to check out let me know.
Brownells is showing it.
VORTEX OPTICS - RAZOR HD GEN III 6-36X56MM FFP ILLUMINATED RIFLE SCOPE
Not in stock though.
VORTEX OPTICS - RAZOR HD GEN III 6-36X56MM FFP ILLUMINATED RIFLE SCOPE
Not in stock though.
Maybe I'm looking too deep into it, but I don't really understand the patent they had with four different toolless turrets not being on this scope. Maybe the toolless turrets will be offered in an upgraded version of the Gen3 once they are fully designed and tested. So unfortunately my prediction of the turret having one large set screw and not being toolless was correct.
Honestly...not sure how I'm feeling about it. I've been shooting a single Gen2 Razor since 2015 and have outgrown it in terms of optical clarity/resolution and ability to see through mirage. But the "infinite adjust" zero sub-turret is just something I've never liked, and I've used it enough to not be convinced otherwise. I was really hoping for a revolutionary turret design upgrade rather than evolutionary. I personally don't want to mess around with getting my zero to within 0.01", when with other scopes I could zero the damn thing with the turrets and just re-position the turret body to zero.
The street price is $1000 less than a ZCO 527, which is what I'd be cross-shopping it against. The ZCO is the exact same length, is 7oz lighter, and at 27x has the same FOV as the Gen2 Razor at 27x. I'm unsure how to compare the FOV at 36x to the ZCO or Gen2. Oh, and I don't care what anyone says, the ZCO is offered in BLACK goddammit!!!
I'll wait and see how the glass compares to the MK5 and ZCO before I make any decision on upgrading.
Honestly...not sure how I'm feeling about it. I've been shooting a single Gen2 Razor since 2015 and have outgrown it in terms of optical clarity/resolution and ability to see through mirage. But the "infinite adjust" zero sub-turret is just something I've never liked, and I've used it enough to not be convinced otherwise. I was really hoping for a revolutionary turret design upgrade rather than evolutionary. I personally don't want to mess around with getting my zero to within 0.01", when with other scopes I could zero the damn thing with the turrets and just re-position the turret body to zero.
The street price is $1000 less than a ZCO 527, which is what I'd be cross-shopping it against. The ZCO is the exact same length, is 7oz lighter, and at 27x has the same FOV as the Gen2 Razor at 27x. I'm unsure how to compare the FOV at 36x to the ZCO or Gen2. Oh, and I don't care what anyone says, the ZCO is offered in BLACK goddammit!!!
I'll wait and see how the glass compares to the MK5 and ZCO before I make any decision on upgrading.
Looks like 500 bucks? So 26-29% depending on where you were sourcing it from... That's way too steep.
Inflation adjustment is one thing, but on an 8 yr old scope they seem to be positioning as their scope option that will continue to compete against the Mk5HD, XRSIII, XTR3, Cronus BTR, etc so they can go up market with the new Gen3... they just increased their pricing above the street price of these scopes, and didn't make any changes... in facts its a much older design (admittedly with illumination which isn't a choice in 3 of these scopes - at least in the preferred reticles we all want).
I am just commenting from a consumer perspective - I dont work in manufacturing... Although I do deal with and model the effects inflation has on things as a tangential factor in my day job - so I am not totally ignorant.
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I suspect it has nothing to do with inflation and more to do with getting the prices close to upsell a handful of prospective buyers.
Fair point - I see the MSRP on the SE changed, about 12.5%... I dont pay attention to the Viper line, did those MSRP's change?
Note:
MSRP isn't updated on the website for the G2, but it is on ExpertVoice - MSRP increase is 24%... from what I am seeing, street price changes seem like they are higher as a percentage (denominator is smaller).
Yep, hence my post. But if its not inflation, but rather to try to push people to the Gen 3 - their other lineup probably wouldnt change... or at least not nearly as much.
If its production oriented cost effects - ie inflation - we should see an MSRP jump across the board.
There are other jumps but I don't think any of them are as much as the price of the G2. Most are in the 10% realm it seems.
The price is relative only to the competition - inflation is moot when it isn't a pure commodity. We'll soon see how it does compared to the 1.5-2K class (XTR3,XRS3,MK5), and to the 3.8-4.2K ZCO's.
Inflation was brought up in regards to the Gen 2, and its price increase. Its an 8 year old scope - pretty sure we have a good idea what its all about.
Inflation isn't moot, but thats another discussion not worth diving into.
This isn’t inflation. It’s cost. Pure and simple. Shipping and component costs/availability is absolute shit currently.
Here is a table of container freight prices. Under $2k to $10k
Attachments
Back to the drawing board Vortex. This guy says so.
And it’s happening everywhere in all markets.
Companies who prides themselves with either never raising prices or constantly lowering prices are raising prices for 2022.
It really is that bad currently with components.
Area419 just shut down their super trickler project due to this.
Companies who prides themselves with either never raising prices or constantly lowering prices are raising prices for 2022.
It really is that bad currently with components.
Area419 just shut down their super trickler project due to this.
Decrease in the purchasing power of money is inflation - if a consumer used to be able to buy 1 Razor G2 for 1800, and can now only buy .72 of a G2 Razor for 1800 - that is inflation. The reason for the debasement of said purchasing power contains too many variables to discuss.
I am not ignorant to the increase in shipping costs. Well aware actually. And you make a fair point, that is a big inflationary pressure.
To your second post - That is not the point. Inflation is here (see above -and as you noted) - how that inflation effects consumers and at what price point that lands the G2 in (relative to the competition) is the important part as a consumer.
As you said, you don’t work in manufacturing or procure things.
We do. And it’s increasing across the board much more than you’re saying it should. So, your model is wrong or it’s not geared toward this industry. (Before you come back with “this is what I do”, remember, you were just telling people what should happen when you don’t have experience in that area).
I'm glad to see the Gen3 here. I'd buy a ZCO for the price. I'll wait for Vortex's price to fall through the floor like all of their other models.
It is when money is free (mmt)!
The reason I said moot (other than availability of equivalent choice) is because the scope is an unnecessary luxury. But I admit your peepee is as glorious as my own (no homo).No, I wasnt. I was commenting as a consumer - and where it now lands the G2 in relation to its competition as an 8 yr old design. That is how I phrased the discussion from the get-go.
Tangentially utilizing this data for modeling purposes and working in economics might mean I actually have a broader and more direct understanding of the concepts than you do - doesn't mean I am "right", as that isnt even the discussion - but something to ponder as we can all bring value to the discussion.
Anyway - as I said in my first sentence. The discussion was framed in regards to the new "value" of the G2 to the consumer, in relation to its competition with its new pricing... which IMO now makes it much less competitive than yesterday.
Point made. Inflationary effects obviously are still a factor - but point made and that is very true this is certainly a luxury item. Plus I agree with your other point, and its the one I was trying to make and re-stated above.It is when money is free (mmt)!
ZCO is $800 more and you're going to need new rings (for most people) so there's another few hundred. I think Vortex have done their 'best bang for the buck' trick again with the Gen 3. Depending on how much you're going to sacrifice on glass with it compared to the Alphas aside from that and being a pig I think this has better features IMHO. 10m parallax free, 36x mag, super-fine tuned zeroing (in-between .1 mil) are really nice. It's shit brown, weighs a lot, doesn't have alpha glass (we think?) and is an as-yet unproven design are the downsides at this point
They’ve entered a territory where reticle preference wins. Competing against the thought process of “well at this point I can get a k525, an ATACR, or spring the full extra G for a ZCO” was an interesting choice. In the end though, they’ll still be a few bucks cheaper and it’s gonna be a great optic whether the haters (myself included at times) like it or not. Even a small improvement in glass will be nice, combined with that parallax at 10 yards, and the new zero stop will turn some folks on (the g2 zero stop was literally why I sold mine a while back). It’s gonna take a little while but you’ll be grabbing these for $2500 soon enough.
So you have time to grab a barrel and possibly a bolt and install it, but not an Allen wrench? Hmm
You would think that it wouldn't be an issue but youd be suprised.
One day I'll buy a set of fix it stick to keep with my shooting gear, untill then i'll contiune to forget the correct size allen key.....
You mustn't have used a tool less zero scope as it's one of those things that is far more convient that it sounds on paper.
So buy a bunch of the right one. Here is the size for the gen 3.
HONJIE 2.5mm Hex Key Wrench L Shaped Hexagon Head Repairing Tool 20pcs … Amazon product ASIN B07VJKGNG4
Or get a few of these.
Or this set. Even comes in packs of 100 or 250.
Hex Contractor Insert Bit 2.5mm x 25mm - 30 Pack
Wiha Hex Contractor Insert Bit 2.5mm Bulk Pack of 30 Bits
www.wihatools.com
Thanks, i'll do that now.So buy a bunch of the right one. Here is the size for the gen 3.
HONJIE 2.5mm Hex Key Wrench L Shaped Hexagon Head Repairing Tool 20pcs … Amazon product ASIN B07VJKGNG4
Or get a few of these.
Or this set. Even comes in packs of 100 or 250.
Hex Contractor Insert Bit 2.5mm x 25mm - 30 Pack
Wiha Hex Contractor Insert Bit 2.5mm Bulk Pack of 30 Bits
Think I'll buy 100 of them and place them all around the house, and at least 10 in each car I own.
Still not as convient as tool less but guess it'll have to do.
like ear plugs.. got thousands of them around the truck, pack, bino harness, everywhere.. and when i get a coyote across in the field fvck me running i can't find one.
Everyone asking about the reason for tool-less zero has clearly never zeroed a Gen 2 razor lol
That was probably the only thing about my G2 I didn’t care for. No tool-less zero on the G3, but I can appreciate that vortex made the zeroing process of the G3 a little more simplified.
