Rifle Scopes New Razor????

[samb300]

@Scott_at_Vortex

WI shooter here, I've been using a Gen2 Razor since 2015. Couple of questions if you don't mind...

1. The weight of the Razor has been discussed and debated a lot, it's heavy, but not the end of the world for PRS type shooting. What I'm wondering is why exactly is the Razor so much heavier than its direct competitors? The Gen3 Razor at 45oz is 7oz heavier than a ZCO 527, and 15 ounces heavier than a Leupold MK5 5-25. Is it more durable, have more lens elements...etc? Is it that heavy on purpose, or just as a side effect of the design?

2. Why doesn't Vortex sell the Razor in black? It's argued a lot on here, and some people get pretty angry about wanting black or telling other people "you're not a real shooter if you care about the color." At the end of the day...I'd rather have one in black.

Thanks,

Sam

 

[rothgyr]

@Scott_at_Vortex

WI shooter here, I've been using a Gen2 Razor since 2015. Couple of questions if you don't mind...

1. The weight of the Razor has been discussed and debated a lot, it's heavy, but not the end of the world for PRS type shooting. What I'm wondering is why exactly is the Razor so much heavier than its direct competitors? The Gen3 Razor at 45oz is 7oz heavier than a ZCO 527, and 15 ounces heavier than a Leupold MK5 5-25. Is it more durable, have more lens elements...etc? Is it that heavy on purpose, or just as a side effect of the design?

2. Why doesn't Vortex sell the Razor in black? It's argued a lot on here, and some people get pretty angry about wanting black or telling other people "you're not a real shooter if you care about the color." At the end of the day...I'd rather have one in black.

Thanks,

Sam

I feel like since the Razor has been bronze since the beginning, it's a brand identity thing. Similar to Ferrari red, etc. If you see an awesome rifle with a scope that color, you know it's a Vortex. It's actually pretty good marketing.

 

[5RWill]

Incredible first impressions. Compared to ZCO, TT, March, Kahles, and old Gen IIs. Everyone sounds overly impressed.

Tangent owner said that if Tangent didn't exist he's buying a Gen III over everything else. I'm on the hype train but it's looking like Vortex has a genuine successor to the Gen II. I mean given the first impressions it looks like it's competing way above it's price range much like the Gen II did back in the day.

 

[Scott_at_Vortex]

@Scott_at_Vortex

WI shooter here, I've been using a Gen2 Razor since 2015. Couple of questions if you don't mind...

1. The weight of the Razor has been discussed and debated a lot, it's heavy, but not the end of the world for PRS type shooting. What I'm wondering is why exactly is the Razor so much heavier than its direct competitors? The Gen3 Razor at 45oz is 7oz heavier than a ZCO 527, and 15 ounces heavier than a Leupold MK5 5-25. Is it more durable, have more lens elements...etc? Is it that heavy on purpose, or just as a side effect of the design?

2. Why doesn't Vortex sell the Razor in black? It's argued a lot on here, and some people get pretty angry about wanting black or telling other people "you're not a real shooter if you care about the color." At the end of the day...I'd rather have one in black.

Thanks,

Sam

Hi Sam,
My answers are probably going to sound a little vague because I cant go into fine detail. So I apologize for that in advance. However I think it really does boil down to the answers below.


1. As rothgyr stated. it's mainly a brand identity thing
2. The weight is just a by product of the overall design(specs/features)

On another note, if you are in WI you should swing by the showroom sometime. I'd be more than happy to come out and chat.

Best Regards
Scott

 

[Jlcichocki]

Incredible first impressions. Compared to ZCO, TT, March, Kahles, and old Gen IIs. Everyone sounds overly impressed.

Tangent owner said that if Tangent didn't exist he's buying a Gen III over everything else. I'm on the hype train but it's looking like Vortex has a genuine successor to the Gen II. I mean given the first impressions it looks like it's competing way above it's price range much like the Gen II did back in the day.

Can't say much more than a brown WOW!!

 

[Glassaholic]

Incredible first impressions. Compared to ZCO, TT, March, Kahles, and old Gen IIs. Everyone sounds overly impressed.

Tangent owner said that if Tangent didn't exist he's buying a Gen III over everything else. I'm on the hype train but it's looking like Vortex has a genuine successor to the Gen II. I mean given the first impressions it looks like it's competing way above it's price range much like the Gen II did back in the day.

I noticed the Tangent guy kept pretty quiet, but an impressive lineup of scopes they had to evaluate. Sounds like a bunch of these are being shipped out to users so by this time next week we should be hearing a lot more first hand feedback.

 

[samb300]

I feel like since the Razor has been bronze since the beginning, it's a brand identity thing. Similar to Ferrari red, etc. If you see an awesome rifle with a scope that color, you know it's a Vortex. It's actually pretty good marketing.

Not to sound like a troll, but Ferraris are sold in colors other than red…

 

[Geno C.]

Not to sound like a troll, but Ferraris are sold in colors other than red…

So are Vortex scopes. But, how many other supercars do you see that are Ferrari red?

 

[DangerRanger]

Pedantic arguments over perfection in analogies (especially when the original comment said “similar”) are about as pointless as conversations get

 

[samb300]

So are Vortex scopes. But, how many other supercars do you see that are Ferrari red?

This makes no sense. Ferrari red is the branding color, and what everyone thinks of when they think Ferrari. But each car is available in a multitude of colors...you know, the actual product, people can choose what color they want.

Tiffany blue is just the box...you can buy whatever setting, metal, diamond you want.

You can buy a Rolex in any color and metal you want, it's not like they have just one. People will still know it's a Rolex.

It's like me wrapping my scope in $4 Amazon camo tape to cover up the brown is somehow better for the Vortex brand than just offering it in black.

 

[BigPrince]

If the color is all folks have to whine about, guess this is a good scope.

 

[Tokay444]

This makes no sense. Ferrari red is the branding color, and what everyone thinks of when they think Ferrari. But each car is available in a multitude of colors...you know, the actual product, people can choose what color they want.

Tiffany blue is just the box...you can buy whatever setting, metal, diamond you want.

You can buy a Rolex in any color and metal you want, it's not like they have just one. People will still know it's a Rolex.

It's like me wrapping my scope in $4 Amazon camo tape to cover up the brown is somehow better for the Vortex brand than just offering it in black.

Ferraris should only be red, and Vortex isn’t the Ferrari of scopes.

 

[VSP968]

One of the dudes I shoot with bought his first Razor Gen II a couple of years ago.

When I asked him what the color of the scope was called, he replied, “Mistake”.

After looking through it and shooting it on the 1000 yard line, we both decided we didn’t care what color it was.

I’ve since bought three Gen II and just ordered a Gen III moments ago.

 

[Tritiumdials]

It makes it easier for Vortex VIP receiving department to put in the correct warranty servicing bin.

 

[Geno C.]

This makes no sense. Ferrari red is the branding color, and what everyone thinks of when they think Ferrari. But each car is available in a multitude of colors...you know, the actual product, people can choose what color they want.

Tiffany blue is just the box...you can buy whatever setting, metal, diamond you want.

You can buy a Rolex in any color and metal you want, it's not like they have just one. People will still know it's a Rolex.

It's like me wrapping my scope in $4 Amazon camo tape to cover up the brown is somehow better for the Vortex brand than just offering it in black.

Can’t get a Tiffany box in any other color either.

How many colors can you get an ATACR in?

 

[TheOE800]

Can’t get a Tiffany box in any other color either.

How many colors can you get an ATACR in?

Well Nightforce does make them in tano…

 

[samb300]

Can’t get a Tiffany box in any other color either.

How many colors can you get an ATACR in?

It's the BOX, not the product.

And yes, NF does make brown scopes, not sure if they're publicly available or just for MIL.

 

[jakelly]

Not to sound like a troll, but Ferraris are sold in colors other than red…

Yeah, and the bell curve of customer approval for Ferrari Red, falls much higher up the Love-hate scale than Tactical Rose Gold.

 

[Solo 43]

You 'color' guys sound like a bunch of bimbo's trying to get their purse color to match their nails!

 

[samb300]

You 'color' guys sound like a bunch of bimbo's trying to get their purse color to match their nails!

I know, right! Like, whatever!

Whenever I spend $3-4,000 on something, I like, literally don't care what it looks like.

I'm sure you didn't look at the color options when you bought your rifles, chassis, clothes, or car. Anyone that says they prefer one color over another is an idiot.

 

[DangerRanger]

The fact of the matter is you still bought one. That’s why they aren’t going to stop.

 

[Bacarrat]

Vortex once made a limited run of black Gen 2 Razors. They sold out within minutes. The gold tan or whatever it's call that Vortex uses doesn't match with anything.

 

[oneshot.onehit]

Since we're on the subject of color (Razor 2 goes great with krg green) some of the pictures I've seen look more toward the coyote from baron23 post than the Razor 2. Is the Razor 3 the same color as the Razor 2 or are they different?

Its the same, looks good with a black stock as well

 

[Solo 43]

Ahhhh....since I use to use my rifles at work, they were dressed for any type of 'operation' I might be sent on. Since my mind set hasn't changed, all my synthetic stocks are camo'ed. My Palma rifles had some nice paint on them, but they were super models that were treated as such.

 

[Franko]

Its the same, looks good with a black stock as wellView attachment 7784160

What cartridge is that in the foreground? Seeing radiused shoulders makes me curious.

 

[jakelly]

Vortex once made a limited run of black Gen 2 Razors. They sold out within minutes. The gold tan or whatever it's call that Vortex uses doesn't match with anything.

That’s right. And those same black ones sell for hundreds of dollars more on the used market.

Vortex should make 500 of each, charge $150 dollars more for black, and see which pile disappears first.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Hard to match the color of your nails when waiting in line to pick up your husbands dry cleaning.

 

[oneshot.onehit]

What cartridge is that in the foreground? Seeing radiused shoulders makes me curious.

416 Warner, I use it for the ELR stuff it pushes a 550 grain bullets easily to 3100 fps - or more if you want to hot rod it. My Gen II handled the recoil of this when it was necked down to the 375 as well as the 416 since late 2016 without any issues. Here’s a comparison sitting next to my 260 loaded to give you a little reference. My opinion an excellent scope and I’m happy to see how they took a very good product and made even better.

Jeff

 

[numberfive]

If the color is all folks have to whine about, guess this is a good scope.

Seriously. Fighting over the the color is so silly. Maybe SH needs a new sub forum specifically for coordinating one's rifle accessories.

It's branding and as evidenced by this discussion, it works. Even people who hate it, recognize it. Even people who hate it, will notice it on rifles down the firing line.

It just seems like a trivial aspect when it comes to a discussion about a somewhat complex precision optical instrument.

Anyway, moving on. (to my own trivial complaints)

I am more disappointed in the fact that a premium product doesn't ship with flip covers, and I wish more manufactures would make the thread-in style like Leupy. Those aluminum magnetic caps feel premium.

Similarly the lack of a locking diopter, especially interesting given that the turrets all lock.

Third, the new turret knurling looks like a downgrade. I wonder why they changed that?

Maybe I missed it, has anybody confirmed that the rev counter allows for the entirety of elevation travel?

The reported glass quality, forgiving eyebox, forgiving parallax (and parallax range) + FOV + elevation travel all seem like great specs. I am wildly more excited to experience that aspect. since I hope to spend more time looking through the scope, than at the scope.

 

[oneshot.onehit]

Seriously. Fighting over the the color is so silly. Maybe SH needs a new sub forum specifically for coordinating one's rifle accessories.

It's branding and as evidenced by this discussion, it works. Even people who hate it, recognize it. Even people who hate it, will notice it on rifles down the firing line.

It just seems like a trivial aspect when it comes to a discussion about a somewhat complex precision optical instrument.

Anyway, moving on. (to my own trivial complaints)

I am more disappointed in the fact that a premium product doesn't ship with flip covers, and I wish more manufactures would make the thread-in style like Leupy. Those aluminum magnetic caps feel premium.

Similarly the lack of a locking diopter, especially interesting given that the turrets all lock.

Third, the new turret knurling looks like a downgrade. I wonder why they changed that?

Maybe I missed it, has anybody confirmed that the rev counter allows for the entirety of elevation travel?

The reported glass quality, forgiving eyebox, forgiving parallax (and parallax range) + FOV + elevation travel all seem like great specs. I am wildly more excited to experience that aspect. since I hope to spend more time looking through the scope, than at the scope.

I didn’t notice the knurling I will look at it, here’s a little info I passed on to some folks that seen the Razor GenII compared to the Gen III video that was good put on by Vortex.


All in all a very clean scope, just to add to the video, the turrets as far as adjusting and locking are solid. I do like the single screw in the turret for fine tuning, also note it is on a angle that is user friendly for loosening and or tightening and does not require over tightening that some of us are prone to.
The big benefit when using the maximum scope elevation corrections - adjusting and squeezing everything I can out of the scope in which is the way I setup my ELR scopes and with the rev indicator operational in the Gen II was 28.5 mils of usable Mils period even though listed at 33 Mils total unless you enabled the rev indicator. Honestly not bad at all but - The Gen III allows you the full 36 mils of usable travel with everything running, thats huge. I'm very happy that the crew at Vortex worked on this project giving the shooter more usable travel and more magnification to be able to use if the mirage allows giving the shooter more ability to spot impacts on a steel plate as well as possibly spotting the misses in the dirt that their spotter might of missed.
The weight changed a little and the overall length which is minor but they really stepped up on improving what they had in which was a great scope to start with.
Cheers

osoh

 

[jakelly]

You 'color' guys sound like a bunch of bimbo's trying to get their purse color to match their nails!

Naw man, I just don’t want my scope to match my Mom’s phone…

 

[5RWill]

Need to get your eyes checked lol, but yeah man there are these other brands called NF, TT, ZCO, that are similarly priced all with the color you desire lol. I understand the desire for a black razor, but this is beating a dead horse at this point.

 

[Jlcichocki]

I know, right! Like, whatever!

Whenever I spend $3-4,000 on something, I like, literally don't care what it looks like.

I'm sure you didn't look at the color options when you bought your rifles, chassis, clothes, or car. Anyone that says they prefer one color over another is an idiot.

Ok I’m an idiot. I don’t like black trucks, they always look dirty and they’re always hot. I’m gonna buy this scope but shit brown doesn’t do it for me.

 

[numberfive]

The Gen III allows you the full 36 mils of usable travel with everything running, thats huge.

osoh

Thanks for confirming, agreed that that is a big deal. Again, I feel like these sort of detail should dominate the discussion here. It's really cool so see this sort of continuous improvement. Likewise in the other XRS/PRO threads with all the functional features they are shipping with. Excited to see how other brands respond. Seeing more of these "ergonomic" and usability features paired with very high quality optical systems.

This has been something I have appreciated about vortex in particular, while some brands are lauded for the exceptional optical quality, but might lack in some aspect of turret features/illumination/reticle etc. Or lower-optical-tier brands have a lot of interesting usability innovations. Razors have been sort of bridging that gap for a while. Very interested in real-world opinons as these start showing up on people's doorsteps in the coming weeks.

 

[Tritiumdials]

Ok I’m an idiot. I don’t like black trucks, they always look dirty and they’re always hot. I’m gonna buy this scope but shit brown doesn’t do it for me.

I’d rather have this Vortex brown than the paint chipping prone baby diarrhea SB Pantone variations.

 

[sleeplz]

Naw man, I just don’t want my scope to match my Mom’s phone…

View attachment 7784163

A lot of moms have black phones and sons with black scopes…

 

[Thorbeast]

Some people have a preference for black scopes weighing less than 45 ounces and that's okay.

There is nothing wrong with discussing how or why a new product doesn't align with their preferences. That doesn't mean they are saying the product is garbage or going to fail.

Vortex announced a new scope and some people got hopeful about how the razor might be more inline with their preferences relative to the old razor. When the specs started rolling in, they said "too bad, I was hoping this was going to be an option for me, but it doesn't fit my needs/preference because ...".

I think when a new product is announced we are all hopeful of what the product could be.

It's crazy how defensive people about gear here, they react as though personal attacks are being thrown around. It's as if their personal identity is tied to vortex (in this case).

 

[5RWill]

No one is getting defensive. We’re nearing 13 pages of talking about the color and why it isn’t black. It’s beating a dead horse.

I also like black and sub 40oz optics. That isn’t what vortex designed. So it’s really just wasted energy to lament about what said person would’ve wanted. Rather than discuss the improvements of the optic.

 

[sleeplz]

But if I don’t complain about tan razors as much as I complain about Prs, my cancel culture won’t be filled for today. I could paint or cover the scope, but complaining gives me therapy cause nothing else is really going on in my life.

 

[4O6shootist]

Well I ordered the last one from Liberty, Scott hooked me up with a great price. To my surprise they are right in my back yard! Gonna meet up with him early next week to acquire. The best glass I have to compare is my whitebox ZP5 5-25.

 

[Guns&WhiteWater]

I’d rather have this Vortex brown than the paint chipping prone baby diarrhea SB Pantone variations.

This Razor is going to sell, but brown it ain't. Purple, yes.

 

[Ordnance Locker]

The Razor does come in black, and weighs just 28.8oz... It's called the AMG. I'm not sure why some of you are whining about the color, since it sounds like it'll never get seen outside of your safe anyways.

 

[samb300]

The Razor does come in black, and weighs just 28.8oz... It's called the AMG. I'm not sure why some of you are whining about the color, since it sounds like it'll never get seen outside of your safe anyways.
View attachment 7784468

That’s such a fucking lame response.

I’m the customer, I can say I want the new scope to come in black. I’ve had a G2 Razor since 2015 and have shot dozens of matches with it.

I owned an AMG and used it once; I can without question say that although lighter, it’s inferior to the Gen2 for PRS shooting.

 

[jakelly]

The Razor does come in black, and weighs just 28.8oz... It's called the AMG. I'm not sure why some of you are whining about the color, since it sounds like it'll never get seen outside of your safe anyways.
View attachment 7784468

My scopes have more scuffs than your magazine.

 

[Ordnance Locker]

That’s such a fucking lame response.

I’m the customer, I can say I want the new scope to come in black. I’ve had a G2 Razor since 2015 and have shot dozens of matches with it.

I owned an AMG and used it once; I can without question say that although lighter, it’s inferior to the Gen2 for PRS shooting.

I never said anything about using it for PRS shooting, nor did I point at you. In regards to the glass quality, we can agree to disagree. I simply stated the FACT that there is a lightweight Razor and it comes in black.

 

[Ordnance Locker]

My scopes have more scuffs than your magazine.

Probably. Mine doesn't get out on the range as much these days lol...

 

[viking78]

I have good memorioes of the Razor scopes.

 

[Solo 43]

I've got a Gen III coming (THANK YOU Scott!!!!) and am wondering about scope caps WITH magnetic closure. Does anyone make them? Be interesting to compare the Gen III with my XRS III and my old PM II.

 

[viking78]

I've got a Gen III coming (THANK YOU Scott!!!!) and am wondering about scope caps WITH magnetic closure. Does anyone make them? Be interesting to compare the Gen III with my XRS III and my old PM II.

Vortex Defender caps are best of the buck.
Magnetic´s suck, and are over priced.

 

[sleeplz]

That’s such a fucking lame response.

I’m the customer, I can say I want the new scope to come in black. I’ve had a G2 Razor since 2015 and have shot dozens of matches with it.

I owned an AMG and used it once; I can without question say that although lighter, it’s inferior to the Gen2 for PRS shooting.

“I’m the customer, I can say I want”

Most Karen response ever. I swear there are YouTube videos where big chicks say this while in line and they’re yelling at the workers for more sprinkles. Holy shit, enough snipershide for a week for me.