Rifle Scopes New Schmidt & Bender PM2 6-36x56

Less graph paper, more simple tree is what I'm wanting.

I'm hoping their Christmas post below was actually a hint of a future reticle offering and not just a funny post-- because I would buy that.

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I applaud whoever took the time to create that graphic, that's exactly how I feel with a lot of tree reticles, they try to pack too much information or make them too thick which just obscures the FOV IMO. I notice the name of the poster here is "schmidtandbender" is it possible that is someone from Schmidt & Bender and were they alluding to a new reticle coming out that actually looks like a normal tree, if that reticle is coming, that is definitely something worth waiting for...

Still use the Gen II XR frequently as I have several Premier 3-15s and 5-25s and Tangent 5-25s with it. Nice simple reticle, a bit fine under some situations at lower mag, and I wished it had 0.2 mil hash marks, but it gets the job done. Just barely enough "tree" so you can be a little more precise with holdovers as the target isn't floating out into a totally empty area of the reticle, but not so much tree it seems cluttered (looking at you, gr2id, and let's not even mention anything with Tremor in the name.)
For years I have been a big proponent of the .2 mil reticles but now not so much, the Gen2 XR is an excellent reticle and most of us can figure out everything in between .5 mil hash marks just fine, I would estimate that our ability (or inability) to guesstimate wind at distance will play a much bigger role than "guessing" where .3 is on a .5 mil reticle.
As far as affording a bunch of scopes... I thought everyone on this forum does it the same way: poor financial decisions, LOL.
My thoughts exactly :LOL:
It would certainly be cheaper to have one switch barrel rifle and one really nice optic and multiple barrels... but I tried that several years ago and hated constantly changing barrels and rezeroing the scope, because it seemed like every time I wanted to go shooting the barrel I used the last time and was still on the rifle wasn't the one I needed this time. I tried the one gun / one scope / multiple barrel thing with an AIAT for 308/6.5CM/6 Dasher and a Sako Quad for .22LR and .17HMR, and constantly switching barrels and rezeroing irritated me so much I ended up with 2x AXs and 2x Quads (setup the exact same with the exception of caliber, and the barrel stays on until it's shot out) so they're always ready to go. It's certainly more convenient, but a hell of a lot more expensive.
I think a lot of people have tried this approach either through switch barrel rifles or trying to use one scope on multiple rifles but ultimately have been frustrated with all the switching and re-zeroing, etc. I think the TT toolless and Vortex RG3 clever design makes a more compelling argument for switch barrel as you can write down the difference and even mark the turret accordingly, but it's still not perfect.
Part of the reason I'm holding off trying an S&B 6-36 because if they're as good as everyone says they are it's going to get very, very expensive for me as I know I'm going to end up buying several of them after I use the first one and then sell some of my current scopes at a loss. That's how it was with my first S&B 5-25 back around 2011; I was happy with the Bushnells, Leupolds, and IORs I was using at the time, but decided "I'll just buy one used S&B 5-25 and put it on my most frequently used rifle to see if I like it, and if not I can sell it for what I bought it for." By the end of 2012 I had sold all my other scopes, sold all of my "back of the safe" rifles that never got shot, and kept only my 6 favorite frequently used rifles and put S&B 5-25s on each of them. It was a huge jump up in scope quality and made all those rifles much more pleasant to use.
Yep, Premier Reticles was the one that ruined me. I thought I knew what good glass was (Zeiss Diavari FL) until I looked through my first Premier Reticles LT 3-15 years ago, then I got a Schmidt 3-20 (non-ultra short) and was wowed by that one too. Surprisingly I did not get my first "real" hands on experience with a Schmidt 5-25 until two years ago, the tunneling in the scopes always turned me off, but if the tunneling doesn't bother you the design is still one of the best with regard to optical performance even after all these years.
Regarding tree reticles...

I shoot a lot of holdovers as I do a LOT of ground squirrel and varmint blasting. They pop up and down at all different ranges from 20Y to 600Y+ and often don't stay up long enough to dial as you scan around the field. For the ones 400Y-ish and in I'll just use holdovers, but for longer range ones I'll dial and wait for them to pop up and take the shot.

In the last couple months I swapped scopes on my 3 primary squirrel blasters from S&B 5-25s with H2CMR reticles to Razor G3s mostly to try something new, going to see how I like them this season. The H2CMR being a simple uncluttered reticle made it easy to see the little furry buggers popping up anywhere in the wide open scope FOV, but precise holdovers on little squirrels were always a little iffy on the H2CMR especially as you get further out and the wind picks up putting the target further away from the center of the reticle and hash marks. Much easier to do more accurate holdovers IMO on the Razor G3 tree reticle since you always have a nearby reference mark, but I'm also hoping the tree reticle in the Razor G3 won't obscure any squirrels as I'm scanning the fields. It's not a very cluttered reticle so I'm not expecting any issues.

If I was shooting exclusively known distance or ELR stuff I'd probably prefer an open, non-tree reticle to better spot misses and faint splash since I'd be dialing everything, just like you mentioned.

I could use the P5FL, but I'd prefer it to have 0.2 mil wind marks. I'm very used to those after using the H2CMR since 2011.
I've come to appreciate tree reticles that minimize the obscuration (a new word??) of the sight picture/FOV, I have found that "busy" tree reticles obscure too much and hinder the visibility of impact as well as small details, since I dial elevation about 98% of the time, if given the choice between a busy tree reticle and a non-tree reticle I'd choose the non-tree. The tree just gives me that 2% of confidence that I could use the reticle when I do not have time to dial or cannot dial through a mechanical failure. As such, my favorite tree reticles to date are:
  • March FML-TR1 (ILya did an outstanding job designing this reticle)
  • TT Gen3 XR
  • Vortex EBR-7D (Mil)
  • Nightforce Mil-XT
  • Minox MR4
My least favorite reticles are Horus by far, then second least are the solid line tree reticles like SKMR and MPCT series, I also do not like circles in my reticle because my eye finds them distracting. As can be seen above, I much prefer dots in the tree. The Schmidt GR2ID falls somewhere in between, it is a bit busy but Schmidt did a good job of not making anything too thick as to look like a Horus reticle but I do not need all the vertical dots, it is a workable reticle...
 
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S&B showed a new TR2ID reticle at SHOT. It is a more conventional tree design and I suspect it will do very well. I did not design it, but stylistically, it is along the lines of the last couple of designs I did. I suspect it will do well for Schmidt and it will be available in the 6-36x56.

ILya
 
S&B showed a new TR2ID reticle at SHOT. It is a more conventional tree design and I suspect it will do very well. I did not design it, but stylistically, it is along the lines of the last couple of designs I did. I suspect it will do well for Schmidt and it will be available in the 6-36x56.

ILya
Brilliant. Was it shown on paper or in an actual scope?
 
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I’m going to have to wait until I see through it at distance against my tangent Theta, but…

Oh my God, does the image pop in that scope. It’s like when you pick up a pair of Swarovski EL binoculars, and look through them.

And my tracking test reported elsewhere shows that the correction factor for elevation over 31MRAD is 0.9984 which is the best result I’ve ever had

I do wish they had put “off” detents between the illumination numbers, and I would rather have locking rather than capped windage. I’m also unsure about the locking elevation, but it doesn’t really bother me.

What I wanted was a superb image, an uncluttered reticle, reliable tracking, and mechanical excellence. And it appears that I am getting more than my moneys worth so far.
 
I’m going to have to wait until I see through it at distance against my tangent Theta, but…

Oh my God, does the image pop in that scope. It’s like when you pick up a pair of Swarovski EL binoculars, and look through them.

And my tracking test reported elsewhere shows that the correction factor for elevation over 31MRAD is 0.9984 which is the best result I’ve ever had

I do wish they had put “off” detents between the illumination numbers, and I would rather have locking rather than capped windage. I’m also unsure about the locking elevation, but it doesn’t really bother me.

What I wanted was a superb image, an uncluttered reticle, reliable tracking, and mechanical excellence. And it appears that I am getting more than my moneys worth so far.

Capped windage??????
 

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Capped windage??????
That’s what mine has. Was there an option for something else and I made a mistake?

Mine also has the pop-up micropenis to indicate that you’re in the second turn

Like Dogtown said, the spaces between the clicks are pretty minuscule, but the super tactile ones at each MRAD are pretty spectacular. You just have to brace the bottom of your palm against something for those last couple of clicks.
 
That’s what mine has. Was there an option for something else and I made a mistake?

Mine also has the pop-up micropenis to indicate that you’re in the second turn

Like Dogtown said, the spaces between the clicks are pretty minuscule, but the super tactile ones at each MRAD are pretty spectacular. You just have to brace the bottom of your palm against something for those last couple of clicks.

Uh yes bro we have been saying dtii+ this entire thread or GTFO lol....if you got it from euro you can swap it.... Since you are new to SB you need to review the library of SB turret and reticle combos. Unlike most scope mfgs SB has like 10 different turrets lol

This is a dtii turret... Features the best click spacing in the world...locking, mtc on and mtc off with a simple rev indicator

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Yeah, maybe I effed up. But I wanted the 35 MRAD offering I will have to check and see if it is available with different turrets.

I’m not the kind of guy to return some thing for a mistake I made so I’m going to just live with it

This is the one I got. Now I have to go and figure out which one I got lol.

ETA - I think I got the right one because I wanted 35MRAD elevation. this is going on a Desert Tech shooting 375 Chi Tech and 50 BMG
IMG_5546.jpeg
 
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All DT27/35 have capped windage. That’s why they’re a good fit for semi-autos or predominantly shooting holdovers. That said, there’s nothing that says you have to have the cap installed. I’ve got a 3-20x Ultra Short DT27that I run without the cap quite often.

The DT35 is nice for the added elevation, especially with a 20/30MOA mount and it’s quite a bit cheaper than the DT II+ (if that plays a role for you). That’s why I’m planning to run one on my G28 clone once Glassaholic is done finger fucking it. I’ll still hold for wind, but will be dialing that elevation way up.
 
Yeah, maybe I effed up. But I wanted the 35 MRAD offering I will have to check and see if it is available with different turrets.

I’m not the kind of guy to return some thing for a mistake I made so I’m going to just live with it

This is the one I got. Now I have to go and figure out which one I got lol.View attachment 8355092

Why do I feel like I know that street......
 
Yeah, maybe I effed up. But I wanted the 35 MRAD offering I will have to check and see if it is available with different turrets.

I’m not the kind of guy to return some thing for a mistake I made so I’m going to just live with it

This is the one I got. Now I have to go and figure out which one I got lol.

ETA - I think I got the right one because I wanted 35MRAD elevation. this is going on a Desert Tech shooting 375 Chi Tech and 50 BMG
View attachment 8355092
Same as this..... 6-36 DT 35mil on a HTI 50 BMG..:)
 

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I’m going to have to wait until I see through it at distance against my tangent Theta, but…

Oh my God, does the image pop in that scope. It’s like when you pick up a pair of Swarovski EL binoculars, and look through them.

And my tracking test reported elsewhere shows that the correction factor for elevation over 31MRAD is 0.9984 which is the best result I’ve ever had

I do wish they had put “off” detents between the illumination numbers, and I would rather have locking rather than capped windage. I’m also unsure about the locking elevation, but it doesn’t really bother me.

What I wanted was a superb image, an uncluttered reticle, reliable tracking, and mechanical excellence. And it appears that I am getting more than my moneys worth so far.
I think you will find it betters your Tangent !! :)
 
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Guys this scope is the BOMB. Don't anybody make me an offer on my TT, or I just may take it.

But on my second rodeo, I'm def getting the DTii turrets as @Huskydriver has advised (BTW, thanks for your help today with zeroing in the field)

I love the PLR5 reticle, honestly.

The glass is on par with my TT (I don't think it's "better" enough to matter, but it easily hangs as a lower confidence interval boundary) but the ability to go to 30 or 36 makes a difference!

Shot it out to 3050 yards with 50 BMG today. Scope did very very well. Love the floating dot, not too big at 36x (but too small at 6X where I will never be shooting :)
 
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You guys are funny. What I mean is that if there were a 90% confidence interval for the tangent theta, or the Schmidt and Bender, each would fall within the interval of another, making comparisons between them highly subjective, because they are both very close.

I really am tempted to swap out the tangent Theta, because even though the turrets are arguably better in terms of the tool less, I never use that feature. And if we assume the glass is equivalent, an extra 11 power seals the deal.

I honestly think that across two dudes and two rifles that are set up almost equivalently, the Schmidt and bender is easier to get behind than the tangent Theta, in terms of eye box and all that

The buddy I was shooting with today is the same one who a year ago went from my tangent Theta to my Zeis LRPS5 and said 00H, I don’t like this view

He thought the Schmidt and bender was the cats meow
 
On a serious note....
A little while ago I took a S&B 6-36 down to our local gunstore for various people to compare.
They had the Ziess LRPS5 in store. Looking through the Ziess was honestly like looking through a toilet roll inner compared to the S&B......I was honestly shocked at the difference in FOV!!
 

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On a serious note....
A little while ago I took a S&B 6-36 down to our local gunstore for various people to compare.
They had the Ziess LRPS5 in store. Looking through the Ziess was honestly like looking through a toilet roll inner compared to the S&B......I was honestly shocked at the difference in FOV!!
The Zeiss with its lifted Super Swampers turrets turns out to have a micropenis compared to Big Daddy Schmidty McDitty’s lowrider.

Classic overcompensation.

#Trying2HardZeiss
#YugeInAllTheWrongPlaces
 
On a serious note....
A little while ago I took a S&B 6-36 down to our local gunstore for various people to compare.
They had the Ziess LRPS5 in store. Looking through the Ziess was honestly like looking through a toilet roll inner compared to the S&B......I was honestly shocked at the difference in FOV!!
S5 is horrible.
I did tested one few years back.
Tunneling is much much worst than PM2 5-25, like triple that.
 
S5 is horrible.
I did tested one few years back.
Tunneling is much much worst than PM2 5-25, like triple that.
Tunneling? I tested the 3-18x50 and it did not have any tunneling to speak of. The FOV was narrower than I like, but aside from that and the enormous turrets, I thought it was a good scope.

ILya