New Sierra 169gr SMK (.30)

[IowaGeologist]

Sierra really screwed up on this one. Instead of being about the new bullet most of this thread is about orders, packaging, and refunds. Not faulting anyone for sharing by any means, its just that their rollout of the new 169 was pretty horrible from what I've seen. Sounds like a great bullet from those that actually got some, but that's only a small fraction of the talk right now.

 

[padom]

It gets even better....this bullet is now pulled from Sierra's website... I had it bookmarked. I just clicked on it to check the BC again to confirm what I have in my Kestrel... Sorry product not found...... If you go to their website and click on .308 bullets... its no longer listed in there either... What the hells going on??

.30 CALIBER/7.62MM 169 GR. HPBT MATCH - Sierra Bullets

This bullet was designed with one thing in mind, and that was to shoot 1000 yards in a 308 Winchester. To accomplish that, we added length to the boattail and engineered a forgiving tangent ogive with a closed nose. Doing this gave it a .527 BC which keeps it super sonic past 1000 yards in a 308...

www.sierrabullets.com

MatchKing – Sierra Bullets

www.sierrabullets.com

 

[nn8734]

Emailed Sierra and they responded saying the 169 is not discontinued but not sure when they are going to make another production run. Sucks, I should have ordered 1000 of them when they were available.

 

[padom]

Emailed Sierra and they responded saying the 169 is not discontinued but not sure when they are going to make another production run. Sucks, I should have ordered 1000 of them when they were available.

Really!?!! Wow. What a fucking dick tease

 

[nn8734]

Yup.

 

[Krob95]

Emailed Sierra and they responded saying the 169 is not discontinued but not sure when they are going to make another production run. Sucks, I should have ordered 1000 of them when they were available.

Why so they can refund your order twice? Lmao

 

[nn8734]

Why so they can refund your order twice? Lmao

Nope. Ordered three boxes of 100 when they first appeared and they arrived via FedEx within a week. I wish I ordered 10 100ct boxes. The refund fiasco didn’t start until a couple weeks ago or so.

 

[blbennett1288]

Nope. Ordered three boxes of 100 when they first appeared and they arrived via FedEx within a week. I wish I ordered 10 100ct boxes. The refund fiasco didn’t start until a couple weeks ago or so.

That is not correct. I ordered a 500 count box when these first came out in January and was issued a refund.

As far as I can tell I don’t think any 500 count boxes shipped it was just 100 count boxes.

Sierra also screwed up twice. Once showing 500 counts in stock and ready to ship and not actually having them back in mid January. Second time was the inaccurate inventory a week or 2 ago.

Sierra gave me the run around that they were waiting on packaging material and labels to ship the 500 counts. Waited a week and called again. Got the same story. I felt like after 3 weeks I was reasonable when I asked them to just ship them regardless of packaging. Which they didn’t want to do. Then I asked them to ship me five (5) 100 count boxes since they could not fulfill my order. Since there is a price difference they didn’t want to do that.

Anyway I am done with Sierra and sticking with Berger.

 

[nn8734]

That is not correct. I ordered a 500 count box when these first came out in January and was issued a refund.

As far as I can tell I don’t think any 500 count boxes shipped it was just 100 count boxes.

Sierra also screwed up twice. Once showing 500 counts in stock and ready to ship and not actually having them back in mid January. Second time was the inaccurate inventory a week or 2 ago.

Sierra gave me the run around that they were waiting on packaging material and labels to ship the 500 counts. Waited a week and called again. Got the same story. I felt like after 3 weeks I was reasonable when I asked them to just ship them regardless of packaging. Which they didn’t want to do. Then I asked them to ship me five (5) 100 count boxes since they could not fulfill my order. Since there is a price difference they didn’t want to do that.

Anyway I am done with Sierra and sticking with Berger.

That sucks and makes them look even worse. Didn’t realize this was happening to folks since Jan ....All mine were 100 count, never saw 500 count in stock so they must have “fixed” that before I got to it. I debated ordering 10 100-ct boxes at the time but decided against it (stupidly). May or may not have received them all based on what happened to you but who knows. Worst case I would have been given a partial refund.

What a fuck up. Them then not making it right is even worse. I suppose you, me and many others are just lucky to have gotten a refund at all since they could have fucked that up too.

 

[NukeMMC]

Ordered 5 boxes of 100 from Sierra at the end of January and got them about 10 days later. I just ordered 2 more from Midway (their limit). They said they were in stock there.

 

[MOUNTIC]

My 10 boxes of 100 arrived in 4 days from order. Sucks what went down for some guys.

 

[padom]

Well enough snow melted that I was able to drive downrange to paint steel and really true these things at 700 and shoots some targets at 300 and 500. It was a gusty day, not the best day for group shooting at distance but they did not disappoint. Constant 6mph gusting from 6-15.








300yd Groups were shit, wind was gusting pretty bad when shooting the 300yd groups. Didnt even bother measuring the second group, you can see its bigger than the first one. First group 0.589 MOA.









500yd groups were better. Wind mostly stayed calm long enough for me to shoot the 5 shot groups. Caught a few gusts that opened up the groups but still good results. First group 0.676 MOA and second group 0.485 MOA. 4 shots in that second group meausure 0.231 MOA. On a calm day, these these will group nicely at distance.










After truing these 169's in my Kestrel, I shot a 5 shot group on an 8" round swinger at 700yd shown below. Wind was pretty consistent when I shot this group, first shot, didnt hold enough wind and just missed off the edge of the plate. Held another .2mil and the next 4 shots grouped about 1.75" CTC (0.238 MOA). 5.3mils elevation @ 700yd.

 

[padom]

Also, I loaded 25pc of virgin Peterson .308 Palma brass with the same load as these 169 SMK's to form the brass. I had no idea what my velocity was. Just put in 2715 and trued them at 700yd then shot them at 500 and 300 as well. Dead on exact same elevation as the 169 SMK's....

So anyone looking for a replacement Sierra bullet to these 169's... The 168 TMK matches up exactly with these 169's elevation wise and It needed .2 less wind at same distances. This very well could have been between gusts so dont put too much into this statement.

These were shot in virgin brass zero development. Now that I fired this virgin brass, Ill do load development with the 168 TMK's now.

 

[NukeMMC]

So anyone looking for a replacement Sierra bullet to these 169's... The 168 TMK matches up exactly with these 169's elevation wise and It needed .2 less wind at same distances. This very well could have been between gusts so dont put too much into this statement.

These were shot in virgin brass zero development. Now that I fired this virgin brass, Ill do load development with the 168 TMK's now.

And Midway has 500ct and 100ct boxes of the 168TMKs in stock.

 

[King_beardsly]

Also, I loaded 25pc of virgin Peterson .308 Palma brass with the same load as these 169 SMK's to form the brass. I had no idea what my velocity was. Just put in 2715 and trued them at 700yd then shot them at 500 and 300 as well. Dead on exact same elevation as the 169 SMK's....

So anyone looking for a replacement Sierra bullet to these 169's... The 168 TMK matches up exactly with these 169's elevation wise and It needed .2 less wind at same distances. This very well could have been between gusts so dont put too much into this statement.

These were shot in virgin brass zero development. Now that I fired this virgin brass, Ill do load development with the 168 TMK's now.

I just snagged two boxes of 100 to hopefully hold me over till the 169’s come back into stock

 

[HomeSlice]

Creedmoor has them in stock. They hit my credit card for my back order about an hour ago and sent out an email that they have them.

 

[King_beardsly]

Creedmoor has them in stock. They hit my credit card for my back order about an hour ago and sent out an email that they have them.

Wonder when the 500ct will come in stock with them.

 

[padom]

Wonder when the 500ct will come in stock with them.

They have 500 too....$224

 

[nn8734]

Just spoke to Creedmoor Sports, they stated the 500ct is still on back order.

Have an order in with them. As others mentioned previously, they don’t charge your card until the order ships.

 

[jzerfoss]

Man.... Sierra's timing was perfect for this bullet. Would have been a gigantic flop a year and half ago.

 

[Aussieusa]

I just had a buddy order 200 of these from midway for me, and the order I put in supposedly shipped today. Annoying about the 500ct box’s debacle, so I’ll just be content with a few of the 100ct boxes for now.

 

[King_beardsly]

They have 500 too....$224

I’ve got a box of 500 and 100 on back order with them already.

 

[HomeSlice]

Man.... Sierra's timing was perfect for this bullet. Would have been a gigantic flop a year and half ago.

I'm curious why you say that?

 

[skl1]

Can't wait to get my hands on some of these. I wonder if the holding company that bought Sierra a couple of years ago is having trouble figuring out how to integrate Barnes bullets company they just also bought out of the Remington bankruptcy.

 

[jzerfoss]

I'm curious why you say that?

There are lots of bullets that compete or do better ballistically(168 hybrid, 168 tmk, 168 eld, etc). You can run 155gr hybrids or 155gr Palmas much faster and stomp them in trajectory and match them in wind out to a 1000. The 169 SMKs offer nothing more other than availability which looks like it might change.

 

[NukeMMC]

So I had some time to kill and sat down with a few bullets, my calipers and my Hornady comparator.
I measured a random 15 bullet lot from each type for:
- Base-to-ogive (BTO)
- Tip-to-boattail (TTB)
- Overall length (OAL)
- Bearing length (BL) - I calculated this based on adding the first 2 measurements and subtracting the OAL. If I had a second comparator I would have measured this.

175 SMK (2018 lot - dimensionally most consistent):
- BTO - Avg = 0.660" sd = 0.0004"
- TTB - Avg = 1.078" sd = 0.0078"
- OAL - Avg = 1.241" sd = 0.0019"
- BL - Avg = 0.498" sd = 0.0007"

168 Int (1962 predecessor to 168 SMK) (dimensionally least consistent)
- BTO - Avg = 0.619" sd = 0.0062"
- TTB - Avg = 1.081" sd = 0.0098"
- OAL - Avg = 1.220" sd = 0.0087"
- BL - Avg = 0.481" sd = 0.0067"

173 M1 (Frankford Arsenal made ca. 1940, widely used by LR shooters in the 50s & 60s)
- BTO - Avg = 0.694" sd = 0.0036"
- TTB - Avg = 1.086" sd = 0.0049"
- OAL - Avg = 1.303" sd = 0.0050"
- BL - Avg = 0.477" sd = 0.0045"

169 SMK (2021)
- BTO - Avg = 0.653" sd = 0.0019"
- TTB - Avg = 1.142" sd = 0.0032"
- OAL - Avg = 1.305" sd = 0.0030"
- BL - Avg = 0.490" sd = 0.0021"

On the 169s, 13/15 had a BTO of 0.652" or 0.653". 2 were 0.658" and skewed the bearing lengths from 0.490" +/- .001" for all the others while they had a bearing length of 0.496". I will be sorting my 169s by BTO. The 0.005" of difference may be insignificant in comparison to other bullets, but it is the most outstanding difference I saw in these bullets.

What this does show you is the difference in QC and manufacturing tolerance between modern (2018+) and old (1940s-1960s) technology. I would say we are pretty spoiled in comparison to what our fathers loaded with.

 

[NukeMMC]

A couple from my Hornady stash:

150 FMJ-BT (ca. - 1990):
- BTO - Avg = 0.523" sd = 0.0028"
- TTB - Avg = 1.023" sd = 0.0028"
- OAL - Avg = 1.102" sd = 0.0021"
- BL - Avg = 0.445" sd = 0.0014"

208 ELDM (2018 - MOST consistent)
- BTO - Avg = 0.811" sd = 0.0005" (all were 0.810-0.811")
- TTB - Avg = 1.370" sd = 0.0005" (all were 1.370" +/-0.001")
- OAL - Avg = 1.537" sd = 0.0004" (2 were 1.536", all others 1.537")
- BL - Avg = 0.481" sd = 0.0067"

No wonder my 300WM LOVES the 208s.

 

[ShooterM1]

Thanks for the detailed information.

 

[NukeMMC]

Just got the 2 boxes I ordered from Midway. Sat down and sorted my total of 500 by Base-to-ogive.
Of the 3 boxes I have remaining from Sierra, the vast majority measured 0.653 with a few at 0.658. Of the 2 boxes just received, the majority were 0.649 with quite a few at .655.

Final count of 500:
0.648-0.650 = 97
0.652-0.653 = 300
0.654-0.655 = 60
0.657-0.658 = 43

Weight was even more consistent at 169.1 +/- 0.1gr

 

[Aussieusa]

Just got the 2 boxes I ordered from Midway. Sat down and sorted my total of 500 by Base-to-ogive.
Of the 3 boxes I have remaining from Sierra, the vast majority measured 0.653 with a few at 0.658. Of the 2 boxes just received, the majority were 0.649 with quite a few at .655.

Final count of 500:
0.648-0.650 = 97
0.652-0.653 = 300
0.654-0.655 = 60
0.657-0.658 = 43

Weight was even more consistent at 169.1 +/- 0.1gr

I received 4 boxes this week from Larry (2 seperate orders), and am yet to measure or weigh these. I might just measure these and not worry about weighing based on this.

 

[BS Shooter]

So did they discontinue the 168 smk or is it still going to be manufactured? I am assuming they will revamp the 175 smk next and I just worked a good load with them so hopefully they don’t cut the old offer when they come out with the new ones.

 

[NukeMMC]

So did they discontinue the 168 smk or is it still going to be manufactured? I am assuming they will revamp the 175 smk next and I just worked a good load with them so hopefully they don’t cut the old offer when they come out with the new ones.

The website said they will continue 168gr production. They took down the 169gr page, so you cannot find the release statement anymore.
Actually the "New Bullets for 2021 page says:
#2269 .308” 30 cal. 169 gr MatchKing – A new MatchKing that will have some improved trajectory performance over the tried and true 168 MatchKing. This bullet does not replace the 168, but in some instances may provide another alternative to the mid-weight 30 caliber match bullet line. The BC comes in at .527. Basically capable of being run at the same velocities as the 168, this bullet will offer the .308 rifle shooters another 1000 yard capable bullet.

 

[BS Shooter]

Well that is good to hear!

 

[Aussieusa]

So, I was able to sneak out for an hour the other day, and was able to try the 169 smk's for the first time. I was only looking between 43-44.3gr of Varget, and shot multiple 5 shot groups of each charge (10 for each charge in total). Not including the 1st shot on group 1, and the last on group 2, they were stacking into the same hole at 100y. 0.2" & 0.3" for the same load shot 30 mins apart, with a barrel clean in between, I just called it good at 44.3gr. With the omega on, I was getting 2840fps with an ES=20, SD=6. 43.0 was also good, but obviously going with the load 80fps faster.

Next time I'm out I'll put these on paper at 300y & steel at 600. I'll be buying more when I can, but was able to get 400 when they first came out.

 

[6.5SH]

So, I was able to sneak out for an hour the other day, and was able to try the 169 smk's for the first time. I was only looking between 43-44.3gr of Varget, and shot multiple 5 shot groups of each charge (10 for each charge in total). Not including the 1st shot on group 1, and the last on group 2, they were stacking into the same hole at 100y. 0.2" & 0.3" for the same load shot 30 mins apart, with a barrel clean in between, I just called it good at 44.3gr. With the omega on, I was getting 2840fps with an ES=20, SD=6. 43.0 was also good, but obviously going with the load 80fps faster.

Next time I'm out I'll put these on paper at 300y & steel at 600. I'll be buying more when I can, but was able to get 400 when they first came out.

Nice! What were you shooting them out of?

 

[Aussieusa]

Nice! What were you shooting them out of?

Bighorn TL3 in a MPA Matrix. PVA 26" Proof comp. contour, 1:9 twist. Barrel only had 100 through it (loaded up some 168 TMK's just to run it in) before I shot this lot of 50. She's a heavy beast.

 

[lte82]

Has anyone trued these up out to 1000?

Edit: nevermind, I’ll true them up and post results.

 

[lte82]

If you shoot tac class, this is going to be the bullet to beat. I was hoping for a trued G7 of .270+ but it came in at a respectable .265. Accuracy is outstanding as well. Load was just 42 gr 8208, virgin Peterson brass, jumping .030. Zero load development, I just did this to get a BC. All charges thrown on a Lee powder measure.

First group on a cold barrel was just a tiny bit off center, but super small. Maybe a .2? Adjusted zero, shot one centered up and went to it. It shot great everywhere, but I only snapped a couple pics of the better ones which happened to be at 500 & 800. Sub moa without trying. 9.6 mil @ 1000, 2735 FPS, zero pressure.

 

[Aussieusa]

If you shoot tac class, this is going to be the bullet to beat. I was hoping for a trued G7 of .270+ but it came in at a respectable .265. Accuracy is outstanding as well. Load was just 42 gr 8208, virgin Peterson brass, jumping .030. Zero load development, I just did this to get a BC. All charges thrown on a Lee powder measure.

First group on a cold barrel was just a tiny bit off center, but super small. Maybe a .2? Adjusted zero, shot one centered up and went to it. It shot great everywhere, but I only snapped a couple pics of the better ones which happened to be at 500 & 800. Sub moa without trying. 9.6 mil @ 1000, 2735 FPS, zero pressure.

Great work. I’ll try get some paper at 300 this week and paint targets at 600 also.
looks like your “zero load development load” is very similar to my lowest charge of 43.0 Varget @ 2740ish, jumping a good .020-.030, and also had excellent accuracy.
Once the 500 packs of these become available, I’ll be grabbing two of them for sure.

 

[Aussieusa]

I went out to BRRC on Tuesday, the first day it's been above 80F in ages, so it was blowing a bit. The 600y was closed in prep for an upcoming comp, so had to head on over to the 300y. I was using a bipod and rear bag, and after the zero check, I went straight to 300 on paper. I used 0.265 as the G7 @lte82 provided above, and then shot a slow-ish 5 shot group. 1 inch with the wind switching up a bit. I was pretty happy with that. Then I shot a few random number of shot groups, and these were all what I would consider rapid, all probably done in under a minute. Also extremely happy. Very little vertical spread, just horizontal from the wind and sending them so quick.

These shoot, so I'll just be sticking with this one, and is more than accurate enough for any matches I would think to use a 308 in.

 

[cruze5]

took me forever to refind this thread. i was looking in reloading!

i loaded up rounds this morning with 4064..
42x 10
42.5x 6
and a good few of 43 grains.

now i need to decide the rifle to shoot them out of! the Sako or Gap harbinger...

 

[lte82]

took me forever to refind this thread. i was looking in reloading!

i loaded up rounds this morning with 4064..
42x 10
42.5x 6
and a good few of 43 grains.

now i need to decide the rifle to shoot them out of! the Sako or Gap harbinger...

Which chamber did you use to measure jump? Because that matters with these bullets...

 

[sheepdog697]

I went out to BRRC on Tuesday, the first day it's been above 80F in ages, so it was blowing a bit. The 600y was closed in prep for an upcoming comp, so had to head on over to the 300y. I was using a bipod and rear bag, and after the zero check, I went straight to 300 on paper. I used 0.265 as the G7 @lte82 provided above, and then shot a slow-ish 5 shot group. 1 inch with the wind switching up a bit. I was pretty happy with that. Then I shot a few random number of shot groups, and these were all what I would consider rapid, all probably done in under a minute. Also extremely happy. Very little vertical spread, just horizontal from the wind and sending them so quick.

These shoot, so I'll just be sticking with this one, and is more than accurate enough for any matches I would think to use a 308 in.

Nice shooting, what is the rifle setup this was fired out of?

 

[Aussieusa]

Nice shooting, what is the rifle setup this was fired out of?

This was out of my new build. MPA Matrix, TL3, PVA proof comp. 1:9, TT Special 2 stage, NF NXS 8-32 sits on top. I think the barrel had about 100 down it when I shot these. It absolutely loves Berger 185 jugs also.

 

[sheepdog697]

This was out of my new build. MPA Matrix, TL3, PVA proof comp. 1:9, TT Special 2 stage, NF NXS 8-32 sits on top. I think the barrel had about 100 down it when I shot these. It absolutely loves Berger 185 jugs also.

Nice build!

 

[lte82]

This was out of my new build. MPA Matrix, TL3, PVA proof comp. 1:9, TT Special 2 stage, NF NXS 8-32 sits on top. I think the barrel had about 100 down it when I shot these. It absolutely loves Berger 185 jugs also.

How much are you jumping them?

 

[Aussieusa]

How much are you jumping them?

Somewhere in the 10-20 tho range. I need to remeasure the distance to the lands when I switch to the 7saum barrel in a few weeks. Original measurement was when the barrel was new and was a little hard to feel

 

[lte82]

Took them out again and had to adjust the BC from .265 to .255. Still not bad but definitely no longer an advantage over the 175 BC wise. They are still the most accurate bullet I’ve shot in this barrel and require very little tuning.

 

[lte82]

Somewhere in the 10-20 tho range. I need to remeasure the distance to the lands when I switch to the 7saum barrel in a few weeks. Original measurement was when the barrel was new and was a little hard to feel

Have you compared them to the 168 hybrid? I'm curious as to what the true BC is on them...

 

[sheepdog697]

Took them out again and had to adjust the BC from .265 to .255. Still not bad but definitely no longer an advantage over the 175 BC wise. They are still the most accurate bullet I’ve shot in this barrel and require very little tuning.

What about the 168tmk? I believe it’s .263ish...