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New Timney Calvin Elite Remington Model 700 Trigger?
- Thread starter HumbleEinstein
- Start date
Just got my CE installed last night and honestly impressed the heck out of me. I'm a long time "use the stock trigger" guy and the only creep I know is that song by Radiohead so take my review for what its worth. Had to do a little deviation from the supplied instructions as the bolt release was stopping the pin from coming out. That's all I know.
There are two screws on the front for trigger pull adjustment so I just picked the bottom one to adjust pull and it worked I think. Sent a message to timney to verify that the bottom one is the adjustment or both?
Ordered from Mark at "On the Mark tactical" and would order from him again!!!!! FAST shipping and absolute great customer service. Called him up and he answered after hours and talked me into this trigger. I'm a fan. Heres the link: On the Mark-Everything for the Marksman!
Thanks Mark.
There are two screws on the front for trigger pull adjustment so I just picked the bottom one to adjust pull and it worked I think. Sent a message to timney to verify that the bottom one is the adjustment or both?
Ordered from Mark at "On the Mark tactical" and would order from him again!!!!! FAST shipping and absolute great customer service. Called him up and he answered after hours and talked me into this trigger. I'm a fan. Heres the link: On the Mark-Everything for the Marksman!
Thanks Mark.
The guys at OMT seem to have the best price, the down side they don't have the nickel version listed on their site. I went ahead and ordered the black version for my stainless rifle, it should be here on the 22nd.
Did you get a response from Timney? What was your trigger pull weight out of the box?
Thanks
Thanks
I did get a response. They said the bottom screw is the adjustable part. They did not tell me what the above screw does although I thought they would offer that.
I do not have a trigger pull weight tester thing but I can tell you that it was light. I could touch the trigger and just about put a little pressure and it would break. I'm use to very heavy stock triggers so I turned it up to more resistance. I wish I could be more help. I had planned on taking a few photos for you all if that would help.
Yes, I was supprised at how light it was set from the factory! I have a digital trigger guage coming from Midway so I will let you guys know.
Waiting for the FedEx truck to show up with my trigger. It must be an improvement over the factory 40X. I tried to adjust it but could never tell any difference in the pull.
I have one of these arriving tomorrow, also from OTMTactical.com. I've never shot anything but a stock trigger on a 700, so this will be interesting. I hope to get this and my new KRG X-Ray installed this weekend.
Simple installation. While I don't have a weight gauge for trigger pull, its light and has a crisp clean break. With rain it will be a few days before I get some range time. It seems like a very worth while upgrade.
Just an update:
While shooting the first day of the New Mexico match today there were 4 rifles that I know of (mine included) that went down with these triggers in them. This was due to dirt/debris. Now, keep in mind these were very harsh conditions, the worst I've ever shot in. A 25-35 mph mini sandstorm......All day. Even blasting them out numerous times with brake/parts cleaner, they still wouldn't work in these conditions. I'm not saying its a bad trigger. I really like mine. Just letting everyone know what took place today. Myself and one other guy tore I rifles down at lunch and put our backup Jewel triggers in. We will see how they hold up tomorrow.
While shooting the first day of the New Mexico match today there were 4 rifles that I know of (mine included) that went down with these triggers in them. This was due to dirt/debris. Now, keep in mind these were very harsh conditions, the worst I've ever shot in. A 25-35 mph mini sandstorm......All day. Even blasting them out numerous times with brake/parts cleaner, they still wouldn't work in these conditions. I'm not saying its a bad trigger. I really like mine. Just letting everyone know what took place today. Myself and one other guy tore I rifles down at lunch and put our backup Jewel triggers in. We will see how they hold up tomorrow.
Having just purchased one of these, this is very disconcerting news. Guess I should have gone with the 510...
Damn did not want to hear that about these triggers....got a new one sitting here waiting for a custom 300WM hunting rifle build.
Did you give Timney a call to see what their thoughts are about this??
I can't speak to the recents issues with dirt causing failure, but after my first range day I can say they come extremely light. I generall shoot 1-3/4 to 2-1/2 lb triggers on my other bolt guns. This thing really doesn't even allow for you to rest your finger on the trigger prior to shooting. Awesome that it can go that light, but for a target/hunting rig I will be adjusting mine heavier. Not sure what pull wight they come. It seems 1 lb or less; likely less. Anyone know for sure?
Factory setting is 6-8oz. You can adjust it up to a little over 1lb.
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New Timney Calvin Elite Remington Model 700 Trigger?
Ahhh. No. It can be adjusted up to 2.5lbs
http://www.timneytriggers.com/shop/Calvin-Elite-Remington-Model-700-P51.aspx
I checked it out at the NRA convention yesterday. You have to take the stock off to adjust the trigger. That was asked in one of these posts. It was set at 8 ounces at the show.
Ahhh. No. It can be adjusted up to 2.5lbs
http://www.timneytriggers.com/shop/Calvin-Elite-Remington-Model-700-P51.aspx
I checked it out at the NRA convention yesterday. You have to take the stock off to adjust the trigger. That was asked in one of these posts. It was set at 8 ounces at the show.
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I'd wait before buying one. Sounds like literally every one of these that was at the New Mexico Match failed......still waiting to hear the full story....but it sounds like its worse than a jewel and a piece of shit in anything other than perfect conditions.
:/
:/
I know of one other one that went down today, so that makes 5 total just that I'm aware of. Could be more. There were 70 shooters and I obviously didnt speak to all of them. I'm not going to call the trigger a piece of shit, but they did fail. However keep in mind these were insane conditions, atleast in the opinion of someone from Oklahoma. It was like shooting inside a sand blasting cabinet for 2 days. We would shoot the stage and then have to immediately wrap a towel or trash bag around our actions to keep as much sand out of them as possible. We went thru several cans of lighter fluid and parts cleaner just to keep the guns running yesterday. We had to buy more last night. These are conditions that most guys will never shoot in. So for the average joe hitting the range once a month, these triggers will most likely be fine.
As soon as I get home and clean mine out and check it for function, it'll be for sale. I'll go back to shooting a Jackson.
tag for more info. I am running two of these now but have not been in any sand storms with them.
A buddy of mine shot the match and his Jewell failed too. However, like trevor300wsm stated, the conditions were horrendous.
I was one of the guys with a Timney Calvin Elite that went down by mid morning the first day. I had several stages that I was unable to shoot secondary to trigger failure. As Trevor stated we changed the triggers out at lunch to some back up Jewells and that failed on my last stage of the day saturday. Saturday evening I put in a good ole Remington 700 trigger and made it thru the rest of the match without a problem.
I know of Jewells, Remingtons & an AI triggers that all went down at that match and several extractors that got gummed up. I never heard of a Huber that quit but I don't know if there were any at the match. I know of two buddies of ours that had no issues one was running a Remington trigger in a Surgeon action & the other was running this new Timney Calvin Elite in a Defiance action. I know that Trevor and I were using Surgeon actions so I am curious if the other Calvin Elite problems were on Surgeon actions? Do you know Trevor?
Without a doubt this was the worst shooting conditions I have ever encountered. Even though all makes of triggers that I mentioned above had problems the Timney Calvin Elites were the first ones to go down by what seemed like a considerable time frame.
I know of Jewells, Remingtons & an AI triggers that all went down at that match and several extractors that got gummed up. I never heard of a Huber that quit but I don't know if there were any at the match. I know of two buddies of ours that had no issues one was running a Remington trigger in a Surgeon action & the other was running this new Timney Calvin Elite in a Defiance action. I know that Trevor and I were using Surgeon actions so I am curious if the other Calvin Elite problems were on Surgeon actions? Do you know Trevor?
Without a doubt this was the worst shooting conditions I have ever encountered. Even though all makes of triggers that I mentioned above had problems the Timney Calvin Elites were the first ones to go down by what seemed like a considerable time frame.
Thanks very much for the AAR, that is a good testing ground for for gear it sounds like. Were there any other models by Timney that you're aware of? (510 et al)
Couldnt tell you how many times I have tried to explain the conditions in Oklahoma (especially Western Ok) but most really dont get it till they go there.
I picked up a CE and man did it come set light.....according to my scale it was at 10 ounces. I removed the bolt stop and increased the tension up to a little over a pound. It has a little bit of creep to it, but otherwise seems to break pretty clean. It doesnt break quite as nice as a Jewel but its close.
With that being said, my Jewel made it through the New Mexico match without any problems.
With that being said, my Jewel made it through the New Mexico match without any problems.
Forgive me if I'm not explaining this correctly, but this is from memory from was what I was told by Timney when I had a problem with a clone action.
People needed the longer sear because of the design of the actions. The Remington firing pin is larger, protrudes, more, etc. The Design of the Timney trigger with a shorter sear was to help reduce protrusion and get a smooth, consistent trigger pull. This makes for more consistent firing pin strikes on Remington actions.
On the "clone" actions, the builders designed the action to eliminate the flaw with the Remington 700 design, but still function with 700 triggers. They did this by changing the design firing pin and the cocking piece. This helps with more consistent ignition using the original Remington trigger.
The problem comes when Timney and clone makers both sought to eliminate the same problem, but in a different way. It so happens that when you combine the two, you get light firing pin strikes sometimes. I had this problem myself and it went away with a factory trigger. However, I liked the Timney better, so I called Timney. Then they explained this too me and told me they would send me a longer sear to install. I was having a "dud" every 5-10 rounds. However, they would go bang in my AI AX just fine after having been misfired in the custom action. I installed the sear and the problems in the clone action went away.
To simulate the conditions in NM go to Home depot, get a bag of the white silica sand, open your bolt and dump 1 cup of sand in. Ok, that might be slightly exaggerated but not by much...
With out any lighter fluid or carb cleaner my Jewel made it to the final 4 shots of the entire match before it had a hiccup and needed cleaning. I dont think any brand of equipment made it through that match with out issues. Hell, i even saw a Glock go down.
With out any lighter fluid or carb cleaner my Jewel made it to the final 4 shots of the entire match before it had a hiccup and needed cleaning. I dont think any brand of equipment made it through that match with out issues. Hell, i even saw a Glock go down.
Almost every point you make is IMO incorrect.
A shorter sear will not reduce pin protrusion, it will reduce firing pin fall. It will do nothing to smooth or add a more consistent pull. Reducing pin fall can have the effect of of increasing inconsistent ignition due to reduced energy in the system.
Remington IMO did not design a flaw into their action/fire control system that needs correcting. Do you think Remington with Mike Walker spent reportedly $100K+ in 1960's $$$ in research to only get it wrong and continue to build them wrong all this time? Most all clones have followed the Remington design with approximately .260-.280" pin fall. In some BAT models this is an exception and they have had their fair share of ignition problems with too little firing pin mass and too little pin fall.
The problem you speak of is IMO not a problem and many seek to fix this non-problem with a perceived improvement with the potential of increasing the chances of inconsistent ignition. What Timney and others do by shortening the sear or by shortening the cocking piece is to to reduce some cock on close to improve the feel of cycling the bolt. By shortening either the sear or cocking piece it will reduce or eliminate the felt bump of the bolt handle as it rotates into battery. Sure it feels much better but if you end up with inconsistent ignition (or fail to fire) it's not IMO a good trade off. When the action maker/rifle builder got Timney to supply the “U” sear all they wanted was a Trigger that would provide the same pin fall as in the original Remington design so they could eliminate the problems associated with poor ignition (I.E. unhappy customers with fail to fire issues).
Your personal example is a great example as to why all this occurs. Stay with the Remington design and you'll be ahead of the game when it comes to ignition issues. Consistent ignition can also have the benefit of better accuracy in the system too, something many people out there seem to want as well.
Why is Timney the only one to sell a trigger (510 design) with a sear that greatly (~.045-.050") reduces pin fall? Jewell had quite a few go out years ago but it wasn't intentional (sub-contract sear supplier issue). Edit: Bix n Andy has a variable sear bar model that will reduce pin fall .045" or leave it the same as a Remington pattern.
Something else to note on this subject. Tubb used to supply (maybe they still do) their Speed Lock pins that had really long pin bodies (not the pin tip, the body, ~.090" longer than standard) that drastically reduced pin fall. Maybe great for reducing lock time but again potentially bad for consistent ignition. I don't know if it was intended or a mistake but I came across a bunch of them. Couple one of these pins with a Timney 510 design and now you're down to .120-140" of pin fall in of a system designed to have .260-.280".
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Sounds like you know the technical details much better than me. I'm trying to regurgitate what I was told three years ago. Either way, it explains why there are two sears available. I was not happy with my Timney causing it to fail to fire
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I figured I would share an actual my thoughts after running the trigger in a match this weekend in drastically different weather conditions during the match. A bit of background. I am running a defiance deviant action chambers in 260 rem and set my Calvin Elite to a cool 1.75lb pull weight. Prior to leaving for the Kettle Falls Precision Rifle Match last week I put 60 rounds through the rifle with perfect results over two days. One day was in the high 80's and slightly dusty due to my muzzle break and the second day with cooler by humid. Then loaded the rifle up and made the 400+ mile drive to the match location, gun bouncing around in the back of the truck in a pelican case, hiked in with the rifle in my Eberlestock Low Drag pack and shot 7 stages each day. Round count was between 9-15 rounds per stage with very tight par times. Day 1 was 60 degrees with on and off down-pours all day & day 2 in the mid 70's with sun and dust. Fired a total of about 160-170 rounds with ZERO problems, failures, issues of any kind. Pretty much ran the rifle as hard as you can imaging; slamming the bolt down and generally running the bolt as fast as I could.
So far in pretty crappy and beautiful weather the trigger has been perfect. I hope the rest of you have the same good fortune and experience as I have had with it. I will definitely purchase another Calvin Elite for my other 700's and be selling my 510's.
So far in pretty crappy and beautiful weather the trigger has been perfect. I hope the rest of you have the same good fortune and experience as I have had with it. I will definitely purchase another Calvin Elite for my other 700's and be selling my 510's.
i love mine installed it sunday was pretty easy to install except for bolt stop spring this was my first time doing this so i had a little trouble but thanks to you tube i was able to figure it out quickly ran all the test and it was fine shot it yesterday set at 8 oz and love it i think i will be leaving mine at 8 oz it was to windy yesterday with gust up to 25 so i could not check to see if it has improved my groups but it shot really well very crisp no creep and takes very littls pressure to fire
Bringing this thread back up to see if anyone has had issues with their firing pin dropping when you close the bolt? I had to readjust mine. We will see if that fixed it or not.
I am also interested in this. Looking at maybe spending the extra over a standard timney. Will be running this on Stiller actions as well.
