New to AR platform looking for some help.

[Ijones]

I am new to the AR platform having never owned or built one before. I am looking to built a long range gun with 1000 yard capabilities. My only experiances are with bolt guns so i did some research and put together a list of parts. I was hoping to get some opinions on my build. If there is anything you see that wont work or could be done better i would love to hear about it. Also i know not all AR-10 parts are interchangable. So if there are any known issued with non fitment of my selected parts that would be great to know before buying.

I have an Aero Presision M5 stripped lower and a Aero M5E1 upper. And have decided i would like to build a 6.5 creedmore. Below are the parts i selected after a fee weeks of research. Let me know what you all think of the list and if there is anything you would do different.

Either a 22" or 24" Batlein barrel with rifle +2 gas hole.
Rife +2 gas tube
JP low profile adjustable gas block
JP low mass BCG with high pressure enhanced bolt.
Colt 7075 forged buffer tube
JP silent capture kit in standard
Calvin elite timney trigger
Raptor ambidextrous charge handle
Timney 49er saftey selector
Magpul PRS gen 3 stock
Magpul MOE+ grip
M5 enhanced 15" m-loc handguard
Aero presision M5 lower pin and spring kit.


Well that's it. Let me know what you think about it or if there are known fitment problems or if i left oit a needed part.

Thanks for taking the time to help out a new guy!!

 

[Cheyenne Bodie]

The only potential problem I see is the low mass BCG being more of a bitch to tune than a "standard" BCG. You are correct that AR-10 doesn't have the standard pattern that AR-15 has, so sticking with a DPMS/Armalite build kit or otherwise staying in the realm of parts which you know are compatible is the name of the game. I'd look into a standard weight BCG for 6.5C and if you've never assembled an AR platform get it done up by a pro. The UL BCG will probably work just fine in the end, but there are pros and cons to the UL BCG argument. JP is top notch in any case, and an adj. gas block would make your life pretty easy getting it dialled in yourself if need be.

 

[whatsupdoc]

Depending on the rifles use you may want to look at other triggers. While the Timney Calvin elite trigger is a nice trigger it's extremely light trigger pull may get you into trouble especially if you have no experience with AR platform.
If you hold the rifle too loose it is easy to bump fire a unintentional second round.

 

[LeadZeke]

Just make sure you get the detent adjustable gas block from JP, no the older two-screw design.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

The Aero stuff is good "budget" stuff, but their platform and forend leaves a little to be desired and judging from your parts list you don't seem like someone that skimps on quality. Personally I'd skip all the Aero stuff and get a Seekins SP10 builders set. Seekins is much better quality that Aero and their forend lends itself much better to a precision setup than the Aero. There's a guy in the classifieds here selling a set for a very good price too which gets the price difference very close.

One other thing I would change is doing a Superlative adjustable clamp on gas block over the JP. The Superlative IMO is a better design and easier to set up and tune. The detents and feeling the click between settings is also nice if you are shooting suppressed and unsuppressed as you can tune it for both and know the difference between proper function without the can is X amount of clicks more open so you just do that and back and forth vs having to mess with a set screw and eyeballing the amount of turn you'd be going on the JP. The Superlative is also lower profile and fits under hand guards better.

Also the Trigger. Those box drop in triggers are not as reliable as the standard design. I don't care what anyone says, they're not. I'd recommend the Geissele high speed national match. It's awesome for a precision gasser. The single stage precision is nice too if you want a single stage but the national match is a better feeling trigger, is tunable, any the high speed hammer reduces lock time which is one of the issues with being able to shoot an AR accurately.

You might also want to look at just buying the Seekins SP10 out of the box and swapping the trigger and gas block if you so desire. That's an amazing rifle and I don't think you can build an equivalent gun for what they cost. You also don't have to worry about component compatibility. You pull it out of the box, mount your optic, and go pew.

With all that said, if this is going to be strictly a paper/steel gun or no larger game than predators, and if you load your own ammo... I would go AR15 platform with 224V instead.

 

[hlee]

I watched a self-described experienced ar10 shooter bump-fire his way out of a match, using a Calvin elite trigger. Just sayin...

 

[hunter8793]

I would get a Geissele SSA-E trigger if I were you.

 

[whatsupdoc]

I watched a self-described experienced ar10 shooter bump-fire his way out of a match, using a Calvin elite trigger. Just sayin...

I have one and love it, but it is not for everyone and definitely not for a new shooter. Before I let anyone shoot mine they dry fire it and the first words are always "holy shit is that light".

 

[Ijones]

What is wrong with the Aero uppers and lowers is specific? I was going to lap the face and call it good. Maybe bed the barrel depending of how tight it fits without. Just wondering as they are the only two part i have and have read good things about them.

 

[Ijones]

I will do some more research on triggers just very happy with the timney on bolt guns so naturally looked in that direction.

 

[Ijones]

I plan mostly on punching holes in paper but would like to be able to hunt deer and antelope as well. Possible even elk. But this gun will be a little on the heavy side for packing to far.

 

[Ijones]

With the rifle length +2 gas system an adjustable block and the jp silent captures ability to change the buffer weight would the LMOS carrier still be a pain? I originally had the standard version on and changed it. So i was already on the fence on the carrier.

 

[Precision Underground]

With the rifle length +2 gas system an adjustable block and the jp silent captures ability to change the buffer weight would the LMOS carrier still be a pain? I originally had the standard version on and changed it. So i was already on the fence on the carrier.

I personally would not mess with low mass carriers in a large frame, or any frame really. The only reason I would do that is if I were trying to make a really fast cycling gun. That’s not what you are after. I actually try to make a precision gas gun cycle as slow as possible. A full mass BCG will help you more than hurt you if you do it right. Use an intermediate length buffer tube and a heavy buffer and then tune it to shoot soft. It’s kind of counterintuitive but the extra mass will help tame the recoil as long as it’s tuned well and not over gassed. It makes for a long and drawn out recoil that feels like almost nothing because it’s spread out over .5 seconds rather than .1 seconds(those are numbers I pulled out of the air but you get what I mean)

 

[Ijones]

Sounds like i definatly need to switch out the trigger. I am not an experianced AR shooter at all. Want to start learning with this rifle.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

What is wrong with the Aero uppers and lowers is specific? I was going to lap the face and call it good. Maybe bed the barrel depending of how tight it fits without. Just wondering as they are the only two part i have and have read good things about them.

You use shims on the barrel in the upper which is stupid, and the way they attach you end up with an unusually big fat hand guard. They also aren't the stiffest hand guards, and I haven't seen one line up perfectly with the top rail when mounted. The Seekins is just better, period.

The Seekins upper to lower fit is also exceptional, and it has a screw in it for further tensioning the two. It also has a right side bolt release for dropping the bolt with your trigger finger.

The flat bottom on the Seekins is also the best hand guard I've ever used for a precision rifle. If you're using a sling stud style mount bipod like a Harris you don't have to worry about the pads properly seating because its flat, and the flat bottom rides bags like a game changer or even a front bag/rest like no other. You can always put a full length Arca rail on the Aero, but that's more money and weight to get a flat bottom if you don't need it. The Seekins also gets the contact point closer to the center of the bore than a fat round hand guard like the Aero.

 

[Ijones]

Will look into the seekins.

 

[hlee]

You can start a class war by asking what upper/lower to use for your build. The "Regardless of roll stamp, all forgings are made by a few big companies" camp vs the "Go be poor somewhere else" camp.

The Aero M4E1 upper that I used for a recent build does not use shims to attach the barrel to the upper, but many barrel nuts do require a shim (or a few) to get the gas tube holes to align. I would be surprised if the M5E1 was not the same. The gas tube feeds into the upper receiver over the barrel nut, not through it. The M5 lower also has a tensioning screw to remove some play from between the upper/lower. It does not, however, have a right side bolt release. That said, a phase 5 extended bolt release will give you that right side bolt release functionality, if you need it.

 

[Harman117]

OP, do you truly have the M5E1 upper, which is what you stated in your first post? (See picture)

If so, you can ignore a lot of what redneck is saying as most of it is subjective.

 

[Ijones]

Yes is is the M5E1. I just called Aero precision and there are no shims used anywhere on this platform. Had me worried a shim in the barrel mounting sounded like bad news.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

The M5E1 upper and forend I bought from them and built a rifle with two years ago most certainly did have shims provided for the barrel. I've been down this road, would not go down it again. Seekins far higher quality than the price difference suggests. Aero is for people throwing budget stuff together.

 

[Ijones]

I wonder if they changes something. Either that or their builder is lying.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

The shims are to align the barrel nut.

 

[Ijones]

Makes sence

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Looks good. Should easily get you to 1k.

+1 caution on a light trigger.

Definitely consider what @Precision Underground said.

 

[Ijones]

Any reason not to lap the nut to get it to line up instead of using shims?

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Align the barrel nut to what?

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Any reason not to lap the nut to get it to line up instead of using shims?

Nitrided barrel nut is going to be a bitch to lap and I'm not sure how you could do that. I suppose you could lap the front of the receiver to set the barrel further in, but I'd trust Aero's machining tolerances over a cheap tool running around with a drill. I don't touch quality uppers with a lapping tool, I think it's crazy. Aero's machining tolerances are extremely good, like along the best in the industry good, their upper/handguard designs just suck compared to others.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Nitrided barrel nut is going to be a bitch to lap and I'm not sure how you could do that. I suppose you could lap the front of the receiver to set the barrel further in, but I'd trust Aero's machining tolerances over a cheap tool running around with a drill. I don't touch quality uppers with a lapping tool, I think it's crazy. Aero's machining tolerances are extremely good, like along the best in the industry good, their upper/handguard designs just suck compared to others.

I've found it's usually the finish that is not uniform.

Whether it even matters is debatable.

 

[Ijones]

I assume lineing up the barrel nut for gas tube alignment is that we are talking about. But i have never built one of these before.

 

[Ijones]

Nitrided barrel nut is going to be a bitch to lap and I'm not sure how you could do that. I suppose you could lap the front of the receiver to set the barrel further in, but I'd trust Aero's machining tolerances over a cheap tool running around with a drill. I don't touch quality uppers with a lapping tool, I think it's crazy. Aero's machining tolerances are extremely good, like along the best in the industry good, their upper/handguard designs just suck compared to others.

What dont you like about the upper/handguard set up from Aero?

 

[hlee]

The m5e1 upper is does not use shims to align gas tube hole in the barrel nut, because there is no hole in the barrel nut. The gas tube rides over it, through a channel in the receiver. Redneck doesn’t know what he is talkin* about, in this instance.

M5E1 Enhanced Upper Receiver - Anodized Black

Great choice of gun accessories. AR15 M4E1 Enhanced Upper Receiver - Anodized Black and more. Lowest price guaranteed.

www.aeroprecisionusa.com

 

[srt-4_uk]

One other thing I would change is doing a Superlative adjustable clamp on gas block over the JP. The Superlative IMO is a better design and easier to set up and tune. The detents and feeling the click between settings is also nice if you are shooting suppressed and unsuppressed as you can tune it for both and know the difference between proper function without the can is X amount of clicks more open so you just do that and back and forth vs having to mess with a set screw and eyeballing the amount of turn you'd be going on the JP. The Superlative is also lower profile and fits under hand guards better.

JP makes click detent gas blocks.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

What dont you like about the upper/handguard set up from Aero?

see post #15.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

The m5e1 upper is does not use shims to align gas tube hole in the barrel nut, because there is no hole in the barrel nut. The gas tube rides over it, through a channel in the receiver. Redneck doesn’t know what he is talkin* about, in this instance.

M5E1 Enhanced Upper Receiver - Anodized Black

Great choice of gun accessories. AR15 M4E1 Enhanced Upper Receiver - Anodized Black and more. Lowest price guaranteed.

www.aeroprecisionusa.com

I ordered two sets and both sets came with the shims and instructions to use them. I didn’t on the set that I built out because I didn’t see why I needed them and thought it was retarded but it most certainly came with them and said to use them.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Not sure what shims would even accomplish.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Shims. It comes with them.

M5E1 Handguard BAR Barrel Nut Kit

The M5E1 Handguard Barrel Nut is used to connect Aero Precision M5 Enhanced Handgaurds to standard AR10 & DMPS pattern threaded upper receivers.

www.aeroprecisionusa.com

That's for putting an enhanced handguard on a regular upper.

That whole piece is part of the upper on an Enhanced Upper.

 

[Ijones]

I am leaning as we talk... Thanks guys.

 

[Harman117]

Everyone take a minute and look up the difference between the standard M5 and the M5E1. Aero makes two now; the E1 designation has the handguard interface INTEGRAL to the upper. Meaning NO SHIMS...

The amount of confusion and misinformation happening in here is ridiculous.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I see it now. The e1 enhanced receiver takes its own special barrel nut. That doesn’t need shims.

But they also make a stand-alone nut that allows that handguard to go on a DPMS upper. which needs shims.

Maybe they revised it. I bought two full M5E1 sets that the handguard mounts to the receiver and they were complete in one box so not separately bought parts. They came with shims and instructions to use them and I thought it was retarded, didn’t see why they were needed, so I threw them in the trash and sent it without them. So possibly an issue with packaging and generic instructions two years ago when this took place. Still, I sold the build shortly after and the extra kit because there was a lot that I disliked about it, mostly just the handguard design and size. It’s proprietary too so you’re stuck with it. You’re stuck with the Seekins too, but at least it’s a good design lol.

 

[hlee]

THere were some vendors that had packaging containing a standard m5 upper with the m5e1 barrel nut and calling it a m5e1 receiver. I'm not sure if this was straight from aero, but the current m5e1 receiver doesn't need shims. The use of shims to align the barrel nut obviates the major benefit of the "e1 concept," not needing to clock the barrel but for gas tube and handguard alignment.

 

[Harman117]

Above is the standard M5.

Below is the M5E1, with the NOW INTEGRAL handguard interface.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

THere were some vendors that had packaging containing a standard m5 upper with the m5e1 barrel nut and calling it a m5e1 receiver. I'm not sure if this was straight from aero, but the current m5e1 receiver doesn't need shims. The use of shims to align the barrel nut obviates the major benefit of the "e1 concept," not needing to clock the barrel but for gas tube and handguard alignment.

These were M5E1 sets bought directly from Aero in Aero packaging. They came in a nice box with foam cutout for both pieces.

 

[Ijones]

I had it narrowed down to the JP or seperlative gas blocks. Went with JP after watching a video that showed the seperlative gas bleed off system slowed the bullet down. Not wanting to loose velosity and seeing no other benifits i picked the JP.

Would love to hear why the seperlative would be better. Here to learn!

 

[WestDesertPRS]

Sounds like i definatly need to switch out the trigger. I am not an experianced AR shooter at all. Want to start learning with this rifle.

My vote would be for the Geissele Hi-Speed National Match with the DMR spring set. I would run 1st stage about 3.0 - 3.5 pounds and 1.0 lb on the 2nd stage for a precision rifle.

If you don't want to mess around with all the adjustable stuff (sear engagement, pull weights, etc) then the Geissele SSA-E is a great option in a non-adjustable trigger. 2-stage and total pull weight a little under 4lbs make it excellent for precision / marksman type rifles that see more than just "bench" shooting.

 

[Cheyenne Bodie]

Iirc the superlative GB works like a blow-off valve or piston system's exhaust to atmosphere, whereas most other adj. DI designs simply limit the gas entering the block. Better is mostly subjective imo, it's what I prefer personally but there are drawbacks in different situations and for different shooters. The JP will do you just fine.

 

[padom]

With the rifle length +2 gas system an adjustable block and the jp silent captures ability to change the buffer weight would the LMOS carrier still be a pain? I originally had the standard version on and changed it. So i was already on the fence on the carrier.

I'm not.sure what the pain is, I've built 10+ using JP LMOS with the SCS heavy and SLA AGB. The full mass bcg works, but exhibits a higher felt recoil.

Also, a 15" handguard will leave your gas block/tube exposed on a +2 gas system. You want a longer handguard like JP or SLR.... I personally like the SLR the best, it's a rock solid, slim setup..

Be careful on handguard choices eith the gas block you choose. Especially if you go .936 as you dont want it hitting the handguard under recoil. The 2 mentioned will.not..well the SLR ION Lite and the JP wont

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I had it narrowed down to the JP or seperlative gas blocks. Went with JP after watching a video that showed the seperlative gas bleed off system slowed the bullet down. Not wanting to loose velosity and seeing no other benifits i picked the JP.

Would love to hear why the seperlative would be better. Here to learn!

If JP has a decent style out now, so long as it works as good as the superlative then I don’t see an issue other than possibly fitment. JP’s are pretty girthy, even the low profile variants compared to most others on the market whereas the Superlatives are very slim.

I don’t see how the Superlative would cause reduced velocity from the way it purges the excess gas. If it does then it’s not enough to matter from velocities I’ve gotten.

 

[padom]

If JP has a decent style out now, so long as it works as good as the superlative then I don’t see an issue other than possibly fitment. JP’s are pretty girthy, even the low profile variants compared to most others on the market whereas the Superlatives are very slim.

I don’t see how the Superlative would cause reduced velocity from the way it purges the excess gas. If it does then it’s not enough to matter from velocities I’ve gotten.

I actually had to switch to a JP Low Pro gas block to prevent from hitting the ID of my handguard where the SA was hitting. JP was the only one thst would fit

JPGS-10 is a low pro, detent black nitride SS gas block. .875 bore

SA .875 measures 1.552" top to.bottom. the JP measures 1.32". Shortest out there

 

[whatsupdoc]

The Superlative does both restricts and if you wish you can set it up to bleed off.

 

[Ijones]

Also i like the clamp on over the set screws. In my experiance (with bolt guns) i don't want a pressure point on the barrell. I understand with a gas gun its unavoidable. My thinking was a clamp of with a more even pressure around the barrel would be better then an uneven pressure of a set screw type.

Now with that said i could not find anything to back that up just my thoughts. Anyone have any exeriance with both?