New to bolt guns.

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Idon'tCareAtAll

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Minuteman
Jul 29, 2020
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21
FL
#1
Hope that I'm not kicking a dead mule, but, if you were getting your first bolt gun again, what would you get? Any other advice is also welcome.

To let you know, I am considering something out of the box to begin with, until I know what is what. I am enamored with the thought of a Bergara and its Spanish barrel, but I am also very impressed with the Daniel Defense Delta 5.

I am pretty much an AR guy right now, but just shooting sub-MOA is getting old, and so am I. I have one of my ARs set up for .224 Valkyrie. It shoots sub-MOA almost every 5 shot group at one hundred yards, with the occasional flinger. 🙄 Thus far, I've only taken it out to 500 yards with the same results. So, I think that I'm better than just sub-MOA. I'm thinking under .5 MOA. In my younger days I could hit a silhouette target 10 out of 10 times with iron sights at 500 yards. Yes, I haven't done that in over 30 years, but I think that I still have the chops.

I hope that after this short spiel I have some excited members out there that are willing to share their advice.
 
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#2
My first bolt gun knowing what I know and like now,

Accuracy International AT or AX

Honest opinion. But I know that’s over the $$ most are looking for

Tikka T3X on the cheaper end

My first rifle was a Savage. I’ve owned Savage 10/110, Rem 700, Tikka T3X, FN SPR, Ruger Predator, AIAT, AXMC and currently playing with a Bergara B14R (.22)

Edit: I still own and shoot every brand/gun listed above
 
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#4
Now I wouldn't buy anything out of the box. I would buy a custom action, trigger, prefit barrel and stock/chassis of choice and put it together. No price range was given so if the max is like $1000 for the rifle then obviously that wouldn't work but if looking at the DD listed at $2500 then the custom put together would be the choice.
 
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#6
I appreciate where we're going here.

I found the DD, on the DD site, for $1870.00.

I've looked at going custom, but just the actions can be a grand. Also, I am leery about a chassis, I guess the look gets me.

Is there an advantage with the chassis over a traditional stock that has adjustable cheek height and length of pull?
 
#7
Tikka CTR in a KRG bravo. Timney two stage if you prefer two stage over single. If you like single then the stock trigger is fine.

Throw a Bushnell or Athlon on it with PMR rings and you’re good to go for awhile. Solid foundation for anything further at $2500 total.

I’ve tried more expensive and cheaper on all Items, these are a solid mid point IMO.
 
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#9
Bravo Tango said:
I appreciate where we're going here.

I found the DD, on the DD site, for $1870.00.

I've looked at going custom, but just the actions can be a grand. Also, I am leery about a chassis, I guess the look gets me.

Is there an advantage with the chassis over a traditional stock that has adjustable cheek height and length of pull?
Click to expand...

Bighorn origin action is $900. Get a prefit and trigger and you are at about $1600. Then pick up a Manners with mini chassis and you will be about $2400 and you have a great set up you can change barrels and bolt faces on for different calibers and set ups.

As mentioned if you don’t like a chassis, I don’t, then use a stock. Simple.
 
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#10
If you want to buy off the shelf, AI for high end, Tikka T3X for mid range.

If you're going custom, the higher end rem700 can be specced to your liking.

I have an AI AX on order, a Defiance custom, a few tikkas, and most of the other big brands. My favourite is still the custom Defiance (to be fair, big part of the credit goes to the chassis) as I can configure it down to 10lbs for hunting and kit it out to 20+lbs for bench.

The Tikkas are in varminting configuration and I have never felt the Tikkas to be a lesser animal. The only thing is that they are in glass stock and they'll stay that way.

Ordered an AX after a few sessions comparing my Defiance custom. I would have gone for another Defiance through the same custom chassis but they don't make anything but 700LA chassis.
 
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#13
Almost anything 700 footprint (that is Savage small shank barrel compatible) and 700 trigger compatible. The aftermarket is just so much larger and if you don't really have a preference in bolt action feel (bolt lift weight, bolt throw, cocking on close, and whatever minor detail) or setup (stock or chassis, single stage or two stage trigger, enclosed fore ends), you can buy/sell/trade parts until you figure out what will fit your body and fit your intended use.

Don't like the bolt cocking feel? Keep the barrel, trigger, stock or chassis, muzzle device, sell the receiver, get a different one. Want to experiment with a two stage trigger? Sell or trade your trigger, get another one. So on and so forth.
 
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#14
I've spent a few hours researching the options and ideas that are being presented here. Buying a rifle out of the box would ensure that all the parts are nicely fit together, whereas building a custom rifle is a major part of my enjoyment in the AR platform. The ability to swap out the different pieces until it is the best rifle for me makes a ton good sense.

I hope this question doesn't seem ridiculous, but, is there a one-stop shop for all parts precision rifle or will I need to dig even more than I have the past couple hours?

Thank you in advance for all your help.

"Remember, if ya ain't havin' fun, ya ain't doin' it right."
 
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#16
Bravo Tango said:
Is there an advantage with the chassis over a traditional stock that has adjustable cheek height and length of pull?
Click to expand...

Chassis have a lot more versatility with respect to gear that can be added - the question is how much that buys you. I like stocks over chassis. It's the feel - both static and during the shot. I also prefer the simplicity of a more standard stock over a chassis - fewer crevices to get dirty, fewer parts to have issues with, etc. - but it all comes down to personal preference.

Now...

The one area where a chassis can win out over a stock is in ELR with adjustable bag riders. I've played with one a small bit... that's all it took to see the advantage of being able to do micro adjustments on a harder rear bag without moving the rifle or bag at all. I want to figure out how to get one on my new McMillan ELR stock. It'll take some heavy duty modding, but would be worth it if I can get it to go.
 
#18
Its just not possible to beat an Origin for your first precision bolt gun imo. Then put it in whatever you prefer. Most likely you can find whatever barrels you want here also for a good bit less too. Then you can switch up the chassis ir stock if you want to and it's no biggie.
 
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#19
For tiny groups you need a top tier custom barrel, and at least for me, a great trigger. Jewell BR or TT Diamond are my favorites. I have a Bix Pro and don't like it as much. Tikka I can't shoot as well because the trigger can't get below ~12oz. So, this points toward a 700 or custom action. Stock vs Chassis - I have a sniper fill A5 with adj cheek that is probably the best traditional stock I have shot - weight and the way it rides bags or bipod are the 2 considerations. Chassis, I have an MDT, a Vision, and an AI AX. I think I shoot the AX best, but believe it's due to the handguard being longest. All shoot great, and am coming around to liking them more than traditional stocks, at least for target shooting.
 
#20
Is there any chance you could shoot some friends’ rifles first? Or go to a match and fondle some rifles? That will at least give you some idea of what you like

I’m relatively new to bolt guns so I’m still “starting” too. But my dream rifle is a long action Mausingfield with the .588, .535, & .473 bolt heads. Bix n Andy trigger. Some sort of chassis for long range shooting and some sort of lighter stock for hunting.
 
#21
I had a Bergara and dang was that pipe a shooter. The only reason I sold it was b/c getting replacement barrels(due to Bergara action) is not or at the time was not that easy. Bergara was quoting me ~6 months at the time and I went ahead and bought a Bighorn Origin and slapped a Proof pre-fit(just went over 3100 rounds and still shoots like a bitch!).

So if you think you are into this for the long haul an investment in an action that makes barrel choosing easier might be something to consider and pre-fits can be sweet on price and ease of swap. Bighorn is just one choice in a sea of many....point was more to make sure that when barrel swap time comes you have a broad spectrum of easy choices.
 
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#22
I'm new to the Midlands of SC. I know that the Richland Rifle Club (?) has matches on at least a monthly basis. Fixing up the new, new to us, house is a priority if I want the wife to stay happy.

Shooting others' rifles is probably a good way to go. Who knows, I might just decide on a chassis gun.

I spent quite a while last night looking at components that I thought that I might like in a rifle. I took the advice thus given to a great extent. I am at about $2350. Not a deal breaker, but for something I've never tried it is, to me, a bit daunting.

I truly appreciate the advice and hope that this thread is helping others.
 
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#23
That's the good part though. You can try something and if you don't like it, sell it and buy something else. Also why a 700 footprint action is a better option. The PX here has a lot of good deals too to try for stocks and chassis but get that solid barreled action to start.
 
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#24
I spent a few hours last night looking at components for a custom build. I came up with this.

Zermatt Arms Origin Short Action $900.00
Altus Shooting Solutions

Barrel -

Proof Research Bighorn Origin SS $509.00
Altus Shooting Solutions

Stock -

Kinetic Res. Group Bravo Chassis. $349.99
Altus Shooting Solutions

Bottom Metal -

Hawkins Precision M5 DBM (SA) $180.00
Altus Shooting Solutions

Trigger -

Remington 700 Bench Rest Trigger $195.49
Midwest Gunwerks

I'm at about $2350. I realize that I will also need a scope and rings and some tools. I like to use Vortex Expert Rings and I am very strongly considering an Athlon Helos BTR GEN2 4-20x50. I might go with a higher power. I own a Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 that I will use for a time before I purchase the Athlon.

I am leaning towards trying to get behind a few, or more, guns before I start making any purchases. However, when I do start dusting off the wallet I will definitely take all the great info given here to heart.

I am seriously thankful for those of you that took time from your day to help me out.

BT
 
#28
Bravo Tango said:
My bad. I didn't see a trigger guard. Do you purchase that separately?
Click to expand...
Nope, it comes with it. Basically all you need is a torque wrench and bits to screw the action into the Bravo chassis. One of the pros of a chassis system is not having to worry about bottom metal and inletting fit.

Edited to add - the new KRG Bravos come with a polymer trigger guard (used to come with aluminum). They do sell an aluminum version if you want to switch out if you just prefer aluminum.
 
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#29
Re: list - caveat - I'm answering this way only because you said you want sub 0.5 moa. My first rifle was a 700 5r and it shot 5/8" stock, with Fed GMM 175's. 1/2" with a trigger and a better scope with smaller reticle, and finally 3/8-1/2" after dialing in a load. Now shooting custom barrels with heavier stocks and chassis, I look for 0.25 moa @ 300, and 0.3-0.4 @500, and will often have groups in the 0.1's at 100-200 yds. The better equipment is not only tighter, but more repeatable. So, having said all that, if you really want to shoot small, you will end up spending more money. You need a ~2K class scope if you are going after tiny groups at distance. If you are sticking to 100-200 yards off a bench, it doesn't matter as much - just get high mag and a thin reticle. Trigger and stock/chassis, though, I'd raise the budget rather than selling and re-buying later... unless that's part of the fun.
 
#36
I always recommend an AI-AT as a general all around rifle if the budget allows.

However, I agree with @Rob01 …..there’s usually no in between with the AI grip. People either love it or hate it. The AT-X has changed that a bit, but they are hard to get ahold of.

Try an AI before you buy an AI. If it’s comfortable for you, it will last forever.
 
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#37
I guess that I should have said sooner, I am strongly considering 6.5mm Creedmoor. .308 would be my second choice. I realize that this limits my options with certain manufacturers, but I like the ballistics of the Creedmoor over the .308.
 
#40
I ran across the BadRock South Fork – KRG BRAVO.

In 6.5mm Creedmoor, it would appear to be an excellent choice for an out of the box rifle. I would know that all the bits and pieces are already fitted together nicely.

Anyone have any experience with BadRock?
 
#41
I have a Tikka in a Manners T4A that is an absolute railgun. They're a better gun than they should be for the price. Extremely smooth action and excellent trigger. I'm replacing the Tikka and a Sig Cross with a Bighorn Origin in a Manners stock to work as both a hunting rifle with a 300WSM barrel, and a <600yd range gun with a .223 barrel. One scope, trigger, stock and action, and labor/rezeroing of the gun when I switch barrels is worth the compromise. The Tikka was cheaper and shot great, and is a great beginner gun to get a lot of practice in, and it's not necessarily something you graduate out of, you might keep it long term. The Origin is a different action for sure, also excellent. You'd be picking the right option either way.

I've taken that factory Tikka CTR 6.5cm in the Manners to 1,500yds. Super easy to shoot. I had it in a KRG Bravo before and couldn't stand how it felt when I wasn't using it on a bench or prone; the chassis tore my hands up with sharp edges and gaps and had a short forend, but it was extremely accurate and otherwise great for $350.

The Daniel Defense rifle feels soulless. It's 'custom' and not in a good way in my eyes. I wouldn't get one.
 
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#44
Read up on the Daniel Defense rifle. The barrel goes on in a proprietary manner. You can only use their barrels. Kinda not what I want.

Checked out the Athlon scope at Camera Land. That is a great price. There go the cobwebs on the wallet.
 
#45
Bravo Tango said:
I ran across the BadRock South Fork – KRG BRAVO.

In 6.5mm Creedmoor, it would appear to be an excellent choice for an out of the box rifle. I would know that all the bits and pieces are already fitted together nicely.

Anyone have any experience with BadRock?
Click to expand...
I have a Badrock, great rifle to get started with IMO. There is a thread on here about them with a lot of positive post.
 
#46
Bravo Tango said:
I guess that I should have said sooner, I am strongly considering 6.5mm Creedmoor. .308 would be my second choice. I realize that this limits my options with certain manufacturers, but I like the ballistics of the Creedmoor over the .308.
Click to expand...

With the Origin build you can have both. Get it in 6.5 first and then save up another $500 and buy a .308 barrel and you have both with a simple barrel swap. You can have a .223 also if you wanted. Or 6mm of some sort.
 
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#47
Rob01 said:
With the Origin build you can have both. Get it in 6.5 first and then save up another $500 and buy a .308 barrel and you have both with a simple barrel swap. You can have a .223 also if you wanted. Or 6mm of some sort.
Click to expand...
This, op

And any other cartridge you can imagine
 
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#48
My first precision oriented rifle was a Remington Sendero in 7mm Mag, years later I ended up with a savage that I barreled with a Lothar Walther .308, then I started collecting 700 short actions and have one in .308, one in 22 nosler and another in 7-08, as well as a long action in 6.5x55.
IF I was to start over, with the knowledge that I have now, and if I was on a budget, I would opt for a Mack Bros stainless steel action, a remage barrel and good, entry level trigger like the trigger tech primary. You can put a high quality, barreled action together for just shy of 1300 dollars.
Add an MDT XRS or KRG Bravo or X ray.
You'll be in for well shy of 2000 dollars
 
#49
$1900. 48

I would still need a muzzle device, scope, rings, some tools, and possibly a couple/few other things and it's off to the range.

As far as calibers go, I think that with the greater number of options in factory loads, I'm not ready to reload yet, that I am going to go with the 6.5mm Creedmoor. I know that the 6mm shoots flatter, but not tremendously flatter and, as a plus, the 6.5 has less drift due to wind. Again, not tremendously less drift.

I am still on the fence as far as a stock/chassis goes. I am going to go to the range and some matches to see if I can get some trigger time with both.

Damn, y'all got me excited. I'm not sure what the turnaround time is on the barrel, etc. Hopefully not long. I'll post pictures when I'm done.

Thanks to all that have contributed. Please, if you have any other information that might be helpful, don't hesitate to share it. This thread has been informative and fun. I know that I have a ton to learn, but I feel like the task is much less daunting.
 
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