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New to bolt guns.
- Thread starter Idon'tCareAtAll
- Start date
I contacted Zermatt Arms and asked which trigger is more compatible with the Origin Action. Ray Heusinkvelt says that the TriggerTech seems to go on with less work. He said that the Timney Triggers tend to need the ignition system fine tuned.
I think that as a newbie I'm going to go with a TriggerTech. I think that I'm going to go with the Rem 700 Special. The adjustment is from 1-3.5#, which is about where I am on one of my ARs, 3.5#, down to 1#.
I have months before I get my barrel, so I have time to research and possibly get to try one out. I keep hoping to try some rifles soon.
BTW, I put in an order at Altus Shooting Solutions for a Proof Research barrel, but, got an email that stated that they didn't know when they will get any more.
I think that as a newbie I'm going to go with a TriggerTech. I think that I'm going to go with the Rem 700 Special. The adjustment is from 1-3.5#, which is about where I am on one of my ARs, 3.5#, down to 1#.
I have months before I get my barrel, so I have time to research and possibly get to try one out. I keep hoping to try some rifles soon.
BTW, I put in an order at Altus Shooting Solutions for a Proof Research barrel, but, got an email that stated that they didn't know when they will get any more.
Keep an eye out at Front Range Precision. There are also 26” M24 prefits here:
But the ordering drop down at that PVA link lumps Origin and TL3 prefits together, I thought they headspaced 0.100” different (the Origin tenon is longer). @bohem Am I wrong on that?
I checked out the Front Range Precision website and he doesn't currently have any prefit barrels in 6.5 Creedmoor. I'll keep checking.
Only a tl3 short action is different (since they accommodate the aw mag cut)Keep an eye out at Front Range Precision. There are also 26” M24 prefits here:
But the ordering drop down at that PVA link lumps Origin and TL3 prefits together, I thought they headspaced 0.100” different (the Origin tenon is longer). @bohem Am I wrong on that?
All other origins and the long action tl3 have the same tenon.
Got it, so there don’t appear to be TL3 SA options available right now. Good catch.
Y'all are going to have to forgive me, or maybe not, but I am still kinda stuck on this pinned recoil lug thing.
I'm trying to remember the article I read that was talking about how a pinned recoil lug can cause a problem. The article retells a story that is from a Marine Corps sniper. He says that, when firing an M40A3 sniper rifle, he fired a round that resulted in a chamber overpressure. I don't remember exactly what he said happened, but he said that the action somehow came loose from the stock and that instead of the recoil lug engaging the stock and keeping the action from flying backwards, it came loose and the action ended up slamming into his jaw, almost knocking him out. Apparently, the M40A3 has a pinned recoil lug.
Now, I realize I may be, okay, probably am, overthinking this. However, I can see where having a recoil lug that is not an integrated part of the action could possibly, in an albeit rare circumstance, cause a problem. Unless I am totally off basis here and don't understand the difference between a pinned and integrated recoil lug.
Isn't a pinned recoil lug a separate piece from the action that is placed at the front of the action and the pin aligns the lug to the action as the barrel is being put on? The barrel holds the recoil lug on.
Isn't an integrated recoil lug one that is a part of the same piece of metal as the action or possibly threaded on?
I have done some more research, oh no, and I have found that there is at least one manufacturer that produces an action that is along the same priceline as the Origin, but, it has an integrated locking lug. It's the Defiance Tenacity Short Action.
Is the Defiance action on par with the quality of the Origin? If not, then I'll stick to the Origin. If it is, wouldn't it be worth the piece of mind to get the Defiance action?
I'm trying to remember the article I read that was talking about how a pinned recoil lug can cause a problem. The article retells a story that is from a Marine Corps sniper. He says that, when firing an M40A3 sniper rifle, he fired a round that resulted in a chamber overpressure. I don't remember exactly what he said happened, but he said that the action somehow came loose from the stock and that instead of the recoil lug engaging the stock and keeping the action from flying backwards, it came loose and the action ended up slamming into his jaw, almost knocking him out. Apparently, the M40A3 has a pinned recoil lug.
Now, I realize I may be, okay, probably am, overthinking this. However, I can see where having a recoil lug that is not an integrated part of the action could possibly, in an albeit rare circumstance, cause a problem. Unless I am totally off basis here and don't understand the difference between a pinned and integrated recoil lug.
Isn't a pinned recoil lug a separate piece from the action that is placed at the front of the action and the pin aligns the lug to the action as the barrel is being put on? The barrel holds the recoil lug on.
Isn't an integrated recoil lug one that is a part of the same piece of metal as the action or possibly threaded on?
I have done some more research, oh no, and I have found that there is at least one manufacturer that produces an action that is along the same priceline as the Origin, but, it has an integrated locking lug. It's the Defiance Tenacity Short Action.
Is the Defiance action on par with the quality of the Origin? If not, then I'll stick to the Origin. If it is, wouldn't it be worth the piece of mind to get the Defiance action?
i'd take an origin over a defiance
but it's a bolt head and feel thing. not a quality thing
You are, in fact, overthinking this, yes. Haha
The only safety difference in the scenario you described would occur if the chamber (barrel) ruptured. That's the only scenario where the recoil lug would fail to deliver the recoil straight back into the stock/chassis, and is EXTREMELY rare. Many things have to go very wrong for you to get to that point, and it's just another on the long list of things that CAN go wrong with firearms but almost never do. Far more people have been hit in the face with the scope under recoil, than have had a barrel come apart and gotten hit in the face with the action as it snaps/shears the action screws (which would also have to happen to get hit with just the action).
This is not a concern. The Origin's a great action, so is the Tenacity, pick one and go with it. I'll say that you'll find far more Origin prefit barrels available around here than you will for the Tenacity, although both are available in the market.
Dude you are WAAAAAAAAY overthinking. The recoil lug being pinned has nothing to do with anything. A regular 700 lug is not pinned so can spin freely around the barrel. All the little pin does is keep the recoil lug in position. That’s it! The lug still encompasses the barrel so it’s not coming loose or flying apart. I would bet something was read wrong in that article as the way you wrote it sounds like complete fiction.
Quit listening to retards telling stories and filing it away in your memory as fact, youll be much better off.
An over pressure round didnt cause his barrel to loosen, his recoil lug to then spin around somehow escaping the walls of the stocks recoil lug pocket, and then remove his action screws for him.
Y'all are going to have to forgive me, or maybe not, but I am still kinda stuck on this pinned recoil lug thing. This is one of those things I mentioned early on about preferences. That search for the "perfect" product or combo of products starts with a single thought in the head. Could this be better? Could that be better? What if this? What if that?
I'm trying to remember the article I read that was talking about how a pinned recoil lug can cause a problem. The article retells a story that is from a Marine Corps sniper. He says that, when firing an M40A3 sniper rifle, he fired a round that resulted in a chamber overpressure. I don't remember exactly what he said happened, but he said that the action somehow came loose from the stock and that instead of the recoil lug engaging the stock and keeping the action from flying backwards, it came loose and the action ended up slamming into his jaw, almost knocking him out. Apparently, the M40A3 has a pinned recoil lug. The cause of the chamber overpressure was a bigger problem than the pinned recoil lug. Not all catastrophic failures will present itself the same way. You can have everything grenade into your face or you could escape unharmed with your barrel splitting into "flower petals." Example of I believe a Defiance Ruckus (with non-integral recoil lug) with action screw holding the receiver in the chassis.
Now, I realize I may be, okay, probably am, overthinking this. However, I can see where having a recoil lug that is not an integrated part of the action could possibly, in an albeit rare circumstance, cause a problem. Unless I am totally off basis here and don't understand the difference between a pinned and integrated recoil lug. You are.
Isn't a pinned recoil lug a separate piece from the action that is placed at the front of the action and the pin aligns the lug to the action as the barrel is being put on? Yes. The barrel holds the recoil lug on. Yes. Barrel lug also sits inside the corresponding recoil lug recess inside a stock or chassis.
Isn't an integrated recoil lug one that is a part of the same piece of metal as the action or possibly threaded on? Yes; machined as part of the receiver.
I have done some more research, oh no, and I have found that there is at least one manufacturer that produces an action that is along the same priceline as the Origin, but, it has an integrated locking lug. It's the Defiance Tenacity Short Action. Another one around that same sort of $1k price point you might want to look into is the American Rifle Company Nucleus Gen 2.
Is the Defiance action on par with the quality of the Origin? If not, then I'll stick to the Origin. If it is, wouldn't it be worth the piece of mind to get the Defiance action?
They're both quality actions. One of the benefits the Origin has over the Defiance is the interchangeable bolt heads with different bolt face diameters (for different calibers that require it) which are more affordable than an fully extra bolt (with different bolt face diameter) from Defiance.
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I thought they switched the "new" new Gen 2s to integral recoil lug with the new right side bolt release? Website error or perhaps I'm mistaken. Could've sworn I saw it in a video too.
Interesting, I pulled up ARC’s site before I replied to your post, it still says keyed lug. Maybe it hasn’t been updated, couldn’t say.
Just remembered where I saw the info about the Nuke integral recoil lug now; it was in the ARC Black Friday thread.
Starting from this post
Oh nice, good find.
OP, I will now also recommend the Nucleus lol. Bear in mind that ARC prefits are harder to find than Origins, but by no means impossible. They’ll also take small-shank Savage barrel-nut barrels, as will the Origin and TL3, plus however many other actions.
As an engineer it was always my job to overthink things... to a point. At some time, after I had considered the safety factors, service factor, cost concerns, and whether or not the design is viable, plus a dozen other things, I would have to come to a decision. I didn't have the luxury to spend too much time overthinking.
Now, I hope that I haven't beaten this up to the point of annoying anyone. I was just taking the time that this forum affords to voice my concerns.
I greatly appreciate all that have helped me to better understand the function of the recoil lug and the stability a pinned lug provides as compared to an integrated.
Given the fact that the Origin Action is more versatile, what with its interchangeable bolt head and availability of barrels, it would be the best decision for me to choose it.
I can't think of anything else to overthink, right now. It is nice to know that there is a place to go if I do have any more questions.
Thanks.
Now, I hope that I haven't beaten this up to the point of annoying anyone. I was just taking the time that this forum affords to voice my concerns.
I greatly appreciate all that have helped me to better understand the function of the recoil lug and the stability a pinned lug provides as compared to an integrated.
Given the fact that the Origin Action is more versatile, what with its interchangeable bolt head and availability of barrels, it would be the best decision for me to choose it.
I can't think of anything else to overthink, right now. It is nice to know that there is a place to go if I do have any more questions.
Thanks.
I started out with a CA Mesa in 300 Win Mag. Some learning curve for my first bolt but it was fun learning.Hope that I'm not kicking a dead mule, but, if you were getting your first bolt gun again, what would you get? Any other advice is also welcome.
To let you know, I am considering something out of the box to begin with, until I know what is what. I am enamored with the thought of a Bergara and its Spanish barrel, but I am also very impressed with the Daniel Defense Delta 5.
I am pretty much an AR guy right now, but just shooting sub-MOA is getting old, and so am I. I have one of my ARs set up for .224 Valkyrie. It shoots sub-MOA almost every 5 shot group at one hundred yards, with the occasional flinger.Thus far, I've only taken it out to 500 yards with the same results. So, I think that I'm better than just sub-MOA. I'm thinking under .5 MOA. In my younger days I could hit a silhouette target 10 out of 10 times with iron sights at 500 yards. Yes, I haven't done that in over 30 years, but I think that I still have the chops.
I hope that after this short spiel I have some excited members out there that are willing to share their advice.
