New Winchester Staball 6.5 ball powder

[2aBaC̶a̶]

6.5 CM, 22"

147 ELD
42.0 2500
42.2 2503
42.4 2540
42.6 2558
42.8 2541
43.0 2573
43.2 2584
43.4 2595
43.6 2590
43.8 2599

121 SOLID
44.0 2706
44.2 2710
44.4 2728
44.0 2754
44.8 2726
45.0 2791
45.2 2755
45.4 2820
45.6 2845
45.8 2858

140 ELD
42.0 2504
42.2 2524
42.4 2543
42.6 2578
42.8 2572
43.0 2605
43.2 2592
43.4 2617
43.6 2627
43.8 2639
44.0 2667
44.2 2661
44.4 2687
44.6 2681
44.8 2711
45.0 2743
45.2 2727
45.4 2719
45.6 2752
45.8 2779

DISCLAIMER. It's technically 2 ladders run together so the ave, es, and sd are skewed. I had some old sized and primed brass that I wanted to shoot so I loaded that up along side my new norm. difference is
1a,1b (Full length sized, Win primers, -.004 neck bush)
2a (shoulder bump, 210 primers -.002 neck in blue)

 

[5RWill]

Can this be run in 6.5 Grendel? If remotely around the possibility i'm going to seek out a 1lb. Something that meters as well as ball would be nice to just throw on the 550b and not worry with the chargemaster.

 

[Simia Dei]

I Think so if the the swings in temps are linear

What barrel length are you running?

 

[RogueTanker]

What barrel length are you running?

25"

 

[FLIGHT762]

Can this be run in 6.5 Grendel? If remotely around the possibility i'm going to seek out a 1lb. Something that meters as well as ball would be nice to just throw on the 550b and not worry with the chargemaster.

If you usually use Reloader 16 / H-4350 / W-760 in your Grendel, then it will work for you.

 

[5RWill]

If you usually use Reloader 16 / H-4350 / W-760 in your Grendel, then it will work for you.

I haven’t loaded yet. Hell haven’t built yet will assemble the upper this week. Going on a dedicated night rig. The idea was a 12.5” Grendel with 123gr sst at 2300fps. Which is right at what hornady custom runs. With a can it should be pretty handy.

 

[Simia Dei]

25"

Cheers mate, I think I'm going to buy some

 

[PowerstrokeOBX]

Had high hopes for this when I saw it come out. Aster reading this thread I don’t see a need to rush out and buy some. Tagged for info later

 

[Rob01]

I bought a pound to try as the only results I fully trust are my own.

 

[264win]

Another drop of data to add...
I did just a few test loads in my 7-08 with Staball and Berger 168 vld.

Barrel specs: 18” 8.5 twist Benchmark barrel.

I loaded up 3 rounds @ 46g, 46.5, 47 grains
Using Starline brass and fed 210 m primers

46g velocity 2510 2513 2515. .65” for 3 shots
46.5g velocity 2545 2551 2558 .73” for 3 shots
47g velocity 2581 2568 2570 . 75 for 3 shots

There was zero signs of any pressure at 47g

For reference, my go to load is a 140 vld over rl16 @ 2840 FPS

More info added

47.5g 2701 2690 2703. 1.2 moa no pressure
48g. 2741 2735 2744. 1.5moa first signs of pressure
49g. 2775 2769. 2moa Did not fire 3rd.Showing definite pressure.

This is 100+ FPS more velocity than I can get with any other stable powder, including rl16.

2700 + FPS with a 168 from an 18” barrel is impressive speed.
More testing to follow with accuracy and temp sensitivity.

 

[RogueTanker]

Another drop of data to add...
I did just a few test loads in my 7-08 with Staball and Berger 168 vld.

Barrel specs: 18” 8.5 twist Benchmark barrel.

I loaded up 3 rounds @ 46g, 46.5, 47 grains
Using Starline brass and fed 210 m primers

46g velocity 2510 2513 2515. .65” for 3 shots
46.5g velocity 2545 2551 2558 .73” for 3 shots
47g velocity 2581 2568 2570 . 75 for 3 shots

There was zero signs of any pressure at 47g


For reference, my go to load is a 140 vld over rl16 @ 2840 FPS

If it's anything like my experience, I bet you see a massive jump a grain or two higher.

 

[Skunkworx]

Yea it seems to ramp up quickly

 

[clcustom1911]

Yea it seems to ramp up quickly

I found that same phenomenon when using WC857, WC844, and H335. It seems to ramp up once you hit +/- 93-95% case fill.

 

[ChristianSilver]

Will be doing my test and load working this weekend.
New Starline Brass
Federal 210 primers
140 ELD’
Barrett MRAD 6.5 CM 24”
Will advise....

 

[Nimothy]

I gave staball a run in my wife’s 6 creed today. I’m a bit disappointmented. Now a little bit about this rifle, it’s a trued remmy with bart 22” m24 1-7.5 done by alamo in hurst texas and in my opinion has always been on the slow side compared to every velocity/charge weight I’ve ever read. I typically load 105 hybrids with 41.9 h4350 at 3050. (Keep in mind it’s my wife’s gun, it’s 15lbs and she is a new shooter so recoil in an issue) I did a ladder load from 41 to 43.7 all charges were dropped on an autotrickler fx120 (the autothrow was a nightmare, had to use a lee dipper) on lapua brass that’s 3x fired neck turned (cleaned up/evened out) that’s annealed every firing, sized with a redding non bushing die bumped .002 and mandrel expanded with a K&m -.002 mandrel and seated with a redding comp seater. The best es I had was 40!! although I only got to 2990fps and I had no pressure signs, this gun has never not shot a ragged hole with just about any load at 100y. I am a bit defeated. I bought an 8lb jug and was super stoked to be able to load on my progressive just like the rest of y’all are talking about. I Was really hoping to have at least a .3-.5gr node to be comfortable dropping and not trickling. I could use some advice from y’all, it doesn’t matter if it is/isn’t temp stable if I can’t get it to shoot. Also a disclaimer I cleaned cleaned the barrel last week but before the test today I shot 15 factory hornady 105’s through it, never cleaned a gun before with kroil/jb but the fellas at Alamo told/showed me how and said it would take a bit to shoot back in, I did my 6.5creed the same way and it hammered today from the cold bore until the last shot I fired I think I shot 70 through it so I don’t think that’s the issue.

I went back to range today and sure enough in my 6creed I bumped up my charge and the pieces started to fall in line, I only got two new loads down range until it started pouring. But it went as followed.
I used 108elds this time. (I’m running low on 105h)
5 shot groups:
43.7 avg 3009 es 9 Sd 4.1
44 avg 3031. Es 10 sd 5.5
44.3 avg 3049 es 9 sd 4.5
Then it started raining. So my day was cut short but there is potential here

 

[padom]

I went back to range today and sure enough in my 6creed I bumped up my charge and the pieces started to fall in line, I only got two new loads down range until it started pouring. But it went as followed.
I used 108elds this time. (I’m running low on 105h)
5 shot groups:
43.7 avg 3009 es 9 Sd 4.1
44 avg 3031. Es 10 sd 5.5
44.3 avg 3049 es 9 sd 4.5
Then it started raining. So my day was cut short but there is potential here

That looks good!

 

[Nimothy]

That looks good!

I agree now I just need a wider node to feel comfortable dropping it on a progressive

 

[918v]

Another drop of data to add...
I did just a few test loads in my 7-08 with Staball and Berger 168 vld.

Barrel specs: 18” 8.5 twist Benchmark barrel.

I loaded up 3 rounds @ 46g, 46.5, 47 grains
Using Starline brass and fed 210 m primers

46g velocity 2510 2513 2515. .65” for 3 shots
46.5g velocity 2545 2551 2558 .73” for 3 shots
47g velocity 2581 2568 2570 . 75 for 3 shots

There was zero signs of any pressure at 47g

For reference, my go to load is a 140 vld over rl16 @ 2840 FPS

More info added

47.5g 2701 2690 2703. 1.2 moa no pressure
48g. 2741 2735 2744. 1.5moa first signs of pressure
49g. 2775 2769. 2moa Did not fire 3rd.Showing definite pressure.

This is 100+ FPS more velocity than I can get with any other stable powder, including rl16.

2700 + FPS with a 168 from an 18” barrel is impressive speed.
More testing to follow with accuracy and temp sensitivity.

You picked up 120 FPS with just a half a gain of powder?

 

[RogueTanker]

You picked up 120 FPS with just a half a gain of powder?

Look at my data too. It seems this powder is very anemic until you get the pressure. Then it shines. Also seems like the SD's stay pretty low too

 

[RogueTanker]

Another drop of data to add...
I did just a few test loads in my 7-08 with Staball and Berger 168 vld.

Barrel specs: 18” 8.5 twist Benchmark barrel.

I loaded up 3 rounds @ 46g, 46.5, 47 grains
Using Starline brass and fed 210 m primers

46g velocity 2510 2513 2515. .65” for 3 shots
46.5g velocity 2545 2551 2558 .73” for 3 shots
47g velocity 2581 2568 2570 . 75 for 3 shots

There was zero signs of any pressure at 47g

For reference, my go to load is a 140 vld over rl16 @ 2840 FPS

More info added

47.5g 2701 2690 2703. 1.2 moa no pressure
48g. 2741 2735 2744. 1.5moa first signs of pressure
49g. 2775 2769. 2moa Did not fire 3rd.Showing definite pressure.

This is 100+ FPS more velocity than I can get with any other stable powder, including rl16.

2700 + FPS with a 168 from an 18” barrel is impressive speed.
More testing to follow with accuracy and temp sensitivity.

2700 is where I was with a 26" barrel and 162gr ELD-M. Yeah that's pretty awesome

 

[Nimothy]

Yeah I was pretty upset at my numbers last week. If I didn’t get rained on I wish I would have brought it up all the way to pressure. But it’s a wonder what .7 of grain did for me

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

You picked up 120 FPS with just a half a gain of powder?

Lol, wow. That's hard to believe. he skipped the entire 2600s With a half grain.

 

[264win]

I am still wanting to confirm my FPS numbers @ distance, but my chrono has been very accurate with previous tests.
I would definitely suggest being very cautious with this powder. It seems to build pressure very quickly once a certain threshold is reached.

 

[918v]

I am still wanting to confirm my FPS numbers @ distance, but my chrono has been very accurate with previous tests.
I would definitely suggest being very cautious with this powder. It seems to build pressure very quickly once a certain threshold is reached.

What chrono?

 

[918v]

Look at my data too. It seems this powder is very anemic until you get the pressure. Then it shines. Also seems like the SD's stay pretty low too

That’s not the way to look at it. Whenever you see a giant leap in velocity with a small powder charge increase it means you are done.

 

[RogueTanker]

That’s not the way to look at it. Whenever you see a giant leap in velocity with a small powder charge increase it means you are done.

Done? How? If by that you mean that you see a large jump, then plateau before hitting pressure then I think you're right. But for me, that's ok. When I'm getting almost 2900 fps, low SDs and a wide node, I can deal with it.

 

[918v]

Done as in stop at 47 grains, in his case, or you’ll blow primers when it gets hot.

 

[RogueTanker]

Done as in stop at 47 grains, in his case, or you’ll blow primers when it gets hot.

Based on what data? He went to 49gr and didn't blow primers. First signs at 48gr.

We don't even know his local temp, altitude or other relevant data to make assumptions like that.

 

[918v]

Pressure signs usually present past 70000 PSI. They started appearing at 48 grains. He got the large increases from 47-47.5 grains. Assuming November temperatures, 47 is max.

 

[GNCC407]

Ran a little test velocity ladder, started each ladder with a completely cool barrel and chamber. Same lot of 140 ELD bullets and Alpha brass. Winchester StaBall left and H4350 right. MDT 6.5 Creedmoor.

 

[Skunkworx]

Ran a little test velocity ladder, started each ladder with a completely cool barrel and chamber. Same lot of 140 ELD bullets and Alpha brass. Winchester StaBall left and H4350 right. MDT 6.5 Creedmoor.

You’re going to want to keep going up with staball, you’re not close to the ceiling yet.

 

[GNCC407]

You’re going to want to keep going up with staball, you’re not close to the ceiling yet.

Was wondering that, theres hardly any case fill at 42.8 with the Staball. Im going to guess 44-46g is going to be the sweet spot?

 

[GNCC407]

I'm going to load 10 in .2g incriminates from 43.2-45 to see if I can hit pressure.

 

[Skunkworx]

I'm going to load 10 in .2g incriminates from 43.2-45 to see if I can hit pressure.

Sounds like a safe idea

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

I'm going to load 10 in .2g incriminates from 43.2-45 to see if I can hit pressure.

I went to 45.8 thinking I would have to pull a couple and never had any of the telltale signs of overpressure. There's still room in the case so I'll dare to venture into the 46's to find max.

 

[lash]

All indications, throughout this thread, indicate that you’ll need somewhere near 47 grains to get case fill and best load with this powder.

 

[GNCC407]

All indications, throughout this thread, indicate that you’ll need somewhere near 47 grains to get case fill and best load with this powder.

With winter coming here in Ohio, I was going after a baseline to see where a good starting point was. When spring rolls around I won't be far off to do a legit load development.

 

[opus56]

Picked up a pound today...we'll see how it goes in my 6.5CM (24" barrel with suppressor). RL16 has been working great for me, but I sure like a powder that meters consistently.

 

[chevy_man]

Anybody tried it in a 243AI yet?

I'm having a new barrel chambered, thinking that being able to run ammo through the 550 will mean I can be sure to burn out a barrel every summer.

 

[Stavey]

Finally had a chance to test out some loads .
Went from 42.1g to 45.4g in .03 grain increments. Test rig was a AR10 chambered in 6.5 Creedmoore with 20” Brux barrel . Ran the same test on another AR10 with 20” Wilson Combat barrel. Although velocities were quite different they both grouped best with the same loads. The Brux barrel was way faster even though they are the same twist 1/8. Without posting loads of data my loads were hornady brass ,federal gold medal match primers, 140 eld bullets loaded to 2.810.
I started at
41.2g of StaBALL 6.5 = 2550fps
and finished at
45.4g of StaBALL 6.5 = 2776 fps
This load showed slight signs of pressure.
Very consistent velocity increase as I stepped up the grains.
For reference in the same rifle
120 amax over 39g of Varget = 2795 fps
140 amax over 41.5 of 4350 = 2588 fps
140 amax over 41.7 of 4350 = 2609 fps
140 Amax over 42.3 of 4350 = 2647 fps
Tested using a prochrono set up 12’ from the bench . Temp was 55*

 

[outlawprecision]

Very interested to see how this works with Dashers and similar running the heavies for cal bullets

Tried this powder in a 6BRA and couldn’t get the speed I needed out of it. 2815 and the case was maxed out with powder.

 

[ChristianSilver]

Well this thread has been quite..
Been going to post my results from testing but with the holidays and weather haven’t had time to get out to the range.
Weather has cleared and things have settled down with family so headed out tomorrow to run my load test.
Have 5 rounds loaded in new starline brass, 210 primers 140 ELD with .002 neck tension and .020 jump.
42.9 Gr.
43.2 Gr.
43.5 Gr.
43.8 Gr.
44.0 Gr.
44.3 Gr
44.6 Gr.
44.8 Gr.
45.0 Gr.
45.2 Gr.
45.4 Gr.
45.6 Gr.
45.8 Gr.

Going to start lowest load and chrono and verify ES and SD until I see pressure signs...
I want to know how far I can push it...
If I don’t see speeds i need in the lower loads will only fire one round to see gains from 3/10ths differences until I get in the upper 2600 FPS range and then do 5 round data captures....
Have a feeling I’ll be pulling a lot of the lower loads...

 

[lte82]

Has anyone confirmed the heat potential of this powder?

 

[MarinePMI]

????

 

[lte82]

????

The heat potential, in KJ/KG.

 

[MarinePMI]

Can you elaborate?

 

[lte82]

You are being redirected...

You can pull these numbers from quickload and use it in the excel barrel life calculator. You can download it here:

http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/barrellifeupdate.xls

Looking at other ball powders I’d estimate it to be around 3800 kJ/kg or so, but it’s hard to say exactly.

 

[MarinePMI]

So, you’re contending that barrel life is determined just by heat?

Just trying to understand your logic here...

 

[lte82]

So, you’re contending that barrel life is determined just by heat?

Just trying to understand your logic here...

Potential heat of the powder, amount of powder, bore size (surface area), and pressure.

 

[MarinePMI]

Copy. Just didn’t want a novice reloader to read your post and think heat alone dictated barrel life.