I am done banned for life on that site, or until I can get a new IP address. But in QL, isn't that the BA number? The kg/kj outside temp factor.
Sorry for the interruption, doubt I'll be trying staball
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New Winchester Staball 6.5 ball powder
- Thread starter padom
- Start date
Sorry for the interruption, doubt I'll be trying staball
The energy density / heat potential of the powder is the first number. BA has more to do with how slow / fast it burns. The temperature function in QL was based on an old study of temp sensitivity, but does not apply to modern powders like Hodgdons extreme series or Alliant / Bofors line of TZ powders like AR Comp, RL16, or RL23.
Im also not super convinced StaBall is going to be a game changer, but I could be wrong. I just want to know the specifics so I can see how easy or hard it might be on a barrel relatively speaking.
Lol, oh fuck, I failed to comprehend the number could be on the right side of column, I will STFU.
Here are the results...
42.9 Gr. 2,609 MV 12.3 SD
43.2 Gr. 2,634 MV 15.6 SD
43.5 Gr. 2,657 MV 11.9 SD
43.8 Gr. 2,706 MV 14.3 SD
44.0 Gr. 2,728 MV 11.2 SD
44.3 Gr. 2,737 MV 8.1 SD
44.6 Gr. 2,763 MV 4.1 SD
44.8 Gr. 2,784 MV 7.8 SD
45.0 Gr. 2,811 MV SD skewed due to an error ES @ 45.0 was 26 FPS.
Stopped due time, have 20 rounds loaded at 44.6 Gr. and going to run these tomorrow. Going to get a 20 shot string to capture accurate SD & ES
All above shot at 300 yds from my MRAD 6.5 with bipod and mono, the best group was the 44.6 at 1.3” Surprisingly all loads group really good, OCW was 44 to 44.8 all about 1.5” high and 1” right...
The temp was 54* ammo at ambient temps, bolt opened to cool for 3 minutes between shots.
No signs of pressure issues...
FYI 41.6 Gr. H4350 MV @ 2,752 SD 3.6. The gun likes 2,750’ish MV.
42.9 Gr. 2,609 MV 12.3 SD
43.2 Gr. 2,634 MV 15.6 SD
43.5 Gr. 2,657 MV 11.9 SD
43.8 Gr. 2,706 MV 14.3 SD
44.0 Gr. 2,728 MV 11.2 SD
44.3 Gr. 2,737 MV 8.1 SD
44.6 Gr. 2,763 MV 4.1 SD
44.8 Gr. 2,784 MV 7.8 SD
45.0 Gr. 2,811 MV SD skewed due to an error ES @ 45.0 was 26 FPS.
Stopped due time, have 20 rounds loaded at 44.6 Gr. and going to run these tomorrow. Going to get a 20 shot string to capture accurate SD & ES
All above shot at 300 yds from my MRAD 6.5 with bipod and mono, the best group was the 44.6 at 1.3” Surprisingly all loads group really good, OCW was 44 to 44.8 all about 1.5” high and 1” right...
The temp was 54* ammo at ambient temps, bolt opened to cool for 3 minutes between shots.
No signs of pressure issues...
FYI 41.6 Gr. H4350 MV @ 2,752 SD 3.6. The gun likes 2,750’ish MV.
Well after getting a 15 shot string am not thrilled.
Very inconvenient pattern, groups fell apart...
Dont think I will waste anymore time..
Very inconvenient pattern, groups fell apart...
Dont think I will waste anymore time..
Good report, looks like you found a repeatable sweet spot. If the next time out gives the confirmation you're looking for, you can perhaps tweak seating depth to reduce group size even more. I'll look for additional updates. Thanks!
I assume you were attempting to run this is a creedmoor sized cartridge? If so you won’t see decent ES/SD until you get closer case fill.
Thanks, was just aggravated. Not quit giving up yet... It’s just so finicky and seems real sporadic. My case prep and loading techniques usually yield good consistent results. I guess I’ll push the envelope further by loading up .2 Gr. at a time till until it settles and yields good results or I see pressure indications.
I know my pet loads with H4350..
I know my pet loads with H4350..
The way I see it, it's got a purpose for a automated press to crank out lots of 6.5cm training/practice rounds like a lot of us do with .223.
Remember when you started doing that with H4350 or Varget? Me neither, cause you cant...
I think guys are making the mistake of comparing this to their stick powder loads and the performance in relation to equal charge weights. If that's what your doing your going to be disappointed.
It's a brand new powder and meters awesome out of a 650. It will require more powder to get near max case fill to see the speeds and SD's we want. Gotta do a pressure test up till you find pressure than do a fine tuned OCW below 1.5-2gr below that and find your node. Seating depth test after that and we will see where it stands.
If it pans out, loading 6.5cm from A to Z on my 650 will be great.
Remember when you started doing that with H4350 or Varget? Me neither, cause you cant...
I think guys are making the mistake of comparing this to their stick powder loads and the performance in relation to equal charge weights. If that's what your doing your going to be disappointed.
It's a brand new powder and meters awesome out of a 650. It will require more powder to get near max case fill to see the speeds and SD's we want. Gotta do a pressure test up till you find pressure than do a fine tuned OCW below 1.5-2gr below that and find your node. Seating depth test after that and we will see where it stands.
If it pans out, loading 6.5cm from A to Z on my 650 will be great.
I’m already getting good speeds, just never know from shot to shot due to the crazy extreme speeds. I not expecting this powder to be at the same charge weight as 4350.
I’m 3 grains over that already, it does meter well out of my 750XL. Ran 10 charges by hand and it would be great “if “ you can find the OCW with acceptable SD’s.
Im going to push my change weights up from 44.6 till I find acceptable SD & ES or pressure signs. I just trimmed two cases to 1.910 and measured seating depth and I can go to 47.2 Grains before compression begins.
Will load 0.2Gr 3 rounds each to 47.2.
Will report back but will be 2 weeks before I have the opportunity to get out to range...
Working sucks... ??...
I’m 3 grains over that already, it does meter well out of my 750XL. Ran 10 charges by hand and it would be great “if “ you can find the OCW with acceptable SD’s.
Im going to push my change weights up from 44.6 till I find acceptable SD & ES or pressure signs. I just trimmed two cases to 1.910 and measured seating depth and I can go to 47.2 Grains before compression begins.
Will load 0.2Gr 3 rounds each to 47.2.
Will report back but will be 2 weeks before I have the opportunity to get out to range...
Working sucks... ??...
I don't recall the marketing materials saying "This powder performs marginal at best but meters great in a progressive press". In fact, this thread indicates the exact opposite. It's a ball powder that performs exactly like a ball powder, disappointment and all
The tests are out? it performs marginal at best? Lolol. Please.share them? I havent seen anything definitive yet
Just scroll up. There's plenty of initial load development to draw a conclusion. This is going to be a bust and the reloading community as a whole is going to yawn and go back to what they were using before the half deceptive marketing was released.
I have one I'm testing right now in 9mm, 45 and 223. The problem is the bullet die. I may be able to cook something up...
Hmmm. Interesting. I'll have to grab the bullet die assembly once back in stock. I have a guy that sent me a 3D printed feeder to review and it's been running great in 45 and 9mm so far. Havent tested the 223 yet..
Any other updates from the Dillon guys? Getting ready for my 550 to chunk out plinking ammo for an ar10 in 6.5creed...
I finally got a chance to try staball today. Looks promising I think. Let me be clear to what I'm after here. I'm wanting to run this in my dillon 550 for practice ammo and local club match ammo(515 yards). I plan on using varget still for bigger matches.
My varget load
32.5 varget
Lapua 6 dasher .130 fb
Cci 450
115 dtac
1.795 bto .005 off lands
2820 fps sd of 2 and es of 9
I used the satterlee method for this load development and worked great.
36.0. 2798 fps
36.2. 2828
36.4. 2835
36.6. 2853
36.8 2856
37.0. 2857
37.2. 2890
37.4. 2919
37.6. 2928
37.8. 2930
38.0 2943
38.2. 2970
38.4. 2973
38.6. 2994
38.8. 3000
39.0. 3026
39.2 3056
Ok, the reason I went so far is because I miss judged the starting point. Started at 37.0 and knew right away I started too high because of the speed. I knew the 2820-2850 range was going to be the node. So I loaded up the 36-37gr also to try. I figured I would go ahead and shoot the rest to see where pressure started. Well, never found it. No pressure signs on any of these, but I got scared at 39.2 and stopped. Load was getting severely compressed anyway.
I settled on 36.8 gr. There was only a 4 fps difference between 36.6 and 37.0 gr. I loaded 5 rounds of 36.8 with the bullet .015 off the lands and got a sd of 9 @ 2857 fps. Group was pretty good. I was in a hurry loading these 5 due to weather coming in and running out of time. I think with some seating depth adjustment it can do better. I'm going to try it again at .005 off lands this week. Looks like it's going to be good enough to put further time into.
My varget load
32.5 varget
Lapua 6 dasher .130 fb
Cci 450
115 dtac
1.795 bto .005 off lands
2820 fps sd of 2 and es of 9
I used the satterlee method for this load development and worked great.
36.0. 2798 fps
36.2. 2828
36.4. 2835
36.6. 2853
36.8 2856
37.0. 2857
37.2. 2890
37.4. 2919
37.6. 2928
37.8. 2930
38.0 2943
38.2. 2970
38.4. 2973
38.6. 2994
38.8. 3000
39.0. 3026
39.2 3056
Ok, the reason I went so far is because I miss judged the starting point. Started at 37.0 and knew right away I started too high because of the speed. I knew the 2820-2850 range was going to be the node. So I loaded up the 36-37gr also to try. I figured I would go ahead and shoot the rest to see where pressure started. Well, never found it. No pressure signs on any of these, but I got scared at 39.2 and stopped. Load was getting severely compressed anyway.
I settled on 36.8 gr. There was only a 4 fps difference between 36.6 and 37.0 gr. I loaded 5 rounds of 36.8 with the bullet .015 off the lands and got a sd of 9 @ 2857 fps. Group was pretty good. I was in a hurry loading these 5 due to weather coming in and running out of time. I think with some seating depth adjustment it can do better. I'm going to try it again at .005 off lands this week. Looks like it's going to be good enough to put further time into.
Lol yeah I got scared. There was no bolt lift and primers looked pretty good. Maybe just a little bit of flow around the firing pin, but wasn't flattened at all. Idk if maybe the slower powder helped with pressure or what. There was another guy that tried it in a dasher with 105s in norma brass and got pressure at 39.5. Norma brass usually has a little less capacity as I'm sure your aware of. I would like to see what quickload has to say pressure is for that load. ? I'm planning on using my dillon so dont really wanna be on the edge anyway.
Well that disappointing, I have a 28” 7.5tw that will be cut to 24” proof comp contour. And a stock waiting on an action, and also have 8lbs of staball, what hoping to see it around 3150 with 105’s. I guess I have to stir up some varget somehow see if it does any better
My findings with Staball in my new 6 GT are that it is dirty but cleans very easily.
It likes to be near capacity in case fill.
I've been breaking in my 6GT barrel with it and various bullets in the 105 weight and am happy with it so far.
I have not pushed it hard yet.
39 grains under 107 SMK is getting me 2940 fps and 12 SD for 10 rounds. This is with 130 rounds on a new Bartlein 7.5 twist 5R 26" barrel out of new Hornady brass.
It likes to be near capacity in case fill.
I've been breaking in my 6GT barrel with it and various bullets in the 105 weight and am happy with it so far.
I have not pushed it hard yet.
39 grains under 107 SMK is getting me 2940 fps and 12 SD for 10 rounds. This is with 130 rounds on a new Bartlein 7.5 twist 5R 26" barrel out of new Hornady brass.
15-1700 is ok with me I guess. Barrels are the cheap part of this thing we do. Especially with the quality of prefits that are out now
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I’ve found that as long as I keep with a 7tw bart it stays pretty even one ladder and your done. With good notes of where you started at least. But I get what your saying. But how long do you normally get out of a 6mm creed or 47? 2k? 2200? Or are you getting way better than that.
I was hoping to get 3150 with a gt and 105’s yes. My 6creed runs 3130. Sorry for the confusion. And I expect 15-1700 barrel life in my 6 creed. I’m waiting on the action for my 6gt
Shit I must be the unluckiest guy in the world but I've never crossed the 1300-1500 rounds with any of my 6 barrels in 6 Creed and 2 barrels of 6x47L. That's even with moderate load, 115 Dtac, HBN and slow powder like H4831SC. I think the one that lasted the longest was the one ive run the hardest with the 105's lol.
Is that only shotting range time or for match?
You are hoping the GT runs faster than the Creedmoor? I'm not sure that will be the outcome, at least without pushing it pretty hard.
No but I thought it would be closer with lighter 105’s to be honest. Idk why I thought 108-115 would be right at or over 3000. Maybe I saw it advertised as such. Either way I’m already invested in brass, dies, barrel, etc
With 115’s though? And my 6creed has a 22” barrel and that 3130 was with heavier bullets than 105h’s. It didn’t seem very hot at all, but I hear people finding 6 creed nodes at 2900 with 105’s and I think to myself why have a caliber and run it way under its potential. That’s the point with 6mm’s right, They are fast! That’s what we like about about them right?
Finally tuned in my 6 dasher load with staball. Taking thi load to a club match tomorrow for the first time. LOADED MATCH AMMO IN 30 MIN LAST NIGHT!!! Lol, love it.
I cant get my dillon to drop this stuff as consistent as my rcbs powder dump does. I dumped all the charges with the rcbs powder dump and did the rest on my dillon 550. I'll get the dillon tuned in though. I'm pretty sure it's my fault setting it up.
36.8gr 6.5 staball
Lapua brass
Cci450
115 dtac @ 1.791" bto(.010 off in my gun)
2865 fps
Sd of 2
Es of 5
5 shots
I cant get my dillon to drop this stuff as consistent as my rcbs powder dump does. I dumped all the charges with the rcbs powder dump and did the rest on my dillon 550. I'll get the dillon tuned in though. I'm pretty sure it's my fault setting it up.
36.8gr 6.5 staball
Lapua brass
Cci450
115 dtac @ 1.791" bto(.010 off in my gun)
2865 fps
Sd of 2
Es of 5
5 shots
RCBS has a case activated die if you want to mount it to a progressive or auto indexing turret press.
My experience so far, for 6.5 Creedmoor with StaBALL 6.5. I'm trying to develop a load for the Hornady 129 grain bullets (I still have 400 of them laying around from when I got my first press, and want to use them for short range practice). I think I'm still not close to max. The speeds are much slower than H4350 (even with my very slow Tikka barrel).
Next, continue pressure testing until I see something.
Next, continue pressure testing until I see something.
I checked just now and 100% case fill would be 48.88 grains for this bullet. So 93% should be right around 45.5.
Is it me? I am seeing mixed reports regarding velocity, some are saying higher numbers and others are saying it’s slow. What gives? I have a keg of this unopened because I am developing a load in a different rifle but as soon as I am done I will start on the ‘06 providing that I have time.
From my testing, grain for grain it’s shower than 4350/rl16. The reason why I believe I can get crazy speeds is because I can get almost 5 more grains of staball into the case vs 4350 which makes up for the speed difference.
I tested in 6.5 and 6GT. So far I've hit higher speeds and pressure signs compared to H4350,RL16 and varget (3000 light ejector swipe) staball is over 3050
Agreed, if it's expected to be faster or even similar grain for grain, not going to happen. Charges show 4+gr higher for the Staball. A max load of 4350 is not even a starting load of Staball.
Here is the published data for a 130gr in the 6.5 Creedmoor others are similar. Only showing this since the two powders happen to show up next to each other.
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