I guess I never looked at the MOA version. I thought since they had the same name, they would be basically the same but in different angle values. Gotta say, I really don't like the MOA version lol
Rifle Scopes NF Atacr 1-8 vs vortex gen 3 1-10
- Thread starter Happiness Is A Warm Gun
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Yes .25 mils is too damn large. They really should switch to a chevron or a .1 mil dot in my opinion especially since they have that massive horseshoe to make it look like a red dot at 1x
Lots of us don't want a BDC that doesn't line up with the ammunition we use. That's why there are options.
FWIW, if you shoot enough, you naturally memorize the holds you need, it takes maybe two or three range trips with varied shooting for even those with the worst memory.
I notice this as well, I am solid Nightforce, I don’t own any of the smaller scopes like the 1-8 I know Nightforce has a hefty price tag that certainly pushes more people to vortex, I’ve had many issues with vortex optics but was always treated well in the warranty department. I know if I was torn between these two it would be no questions asked I would certainly purchase the Nightforce, that being said I wish more people would give reviews on them.. I’ll give it to the Vortex bandwagoners they alway review well!
I am looking at both of these scopes. I plan on being able to switch between multiple rifles including a SCAR-16, SCAR-17, and MDRX in multiple calibers. This means a mil based non-BDC reticle suits me. I do compete in 3 gun matches in tactical and tactical heavy metal division. The SCAR-17 is hard on scopes so reliability is a must. I know the ATACR is good but am not sure about the RG3. With military discount, the price difference isn't that drastic between the two. Also looking at any advice for mounts. I have experience with Sphur from my precision rifle but this thread is making me look at Scalerworks.
I have been researching these two optics heavily for the last two weeks. Of course, the RG3 is “ unobtainium,” but I figured they surface in a month or so and it looks like a great package for the money. When I learned it would likely be June before the next batch arrived, I bought the ATACR.
A lot of the choice depends on the size of the rifle/carbine/pistol as well.
I really like the NX8 1-8x24 for how amazingly-compact it is. Is it the best scope for shooting 100yd groups? Nope, as the center dot is pretty large, but you can offset with the reticle if you’re chasing precision. I didn’t have a problem shooting sub-MOA 5rd strings with it in 6.5 Grendel with 123gr ELD-M if I remember correctly, and that was using the center dot.
It’s an awesome scope for a really lightweight, compact blaster that also works as a DM weapon.
The ATACR is really nice, but a bit large for my tastes. I lean to the Razor Gen III 1-10x if you’re going to go that big (it’s not a huge scope, but is bigger than many 1-4x24 LPVOs).
The NX8 1-8x24 is sick on higher performance intermediate cartridge AR15s, like 6.5 Grendel or 6mm ARC with short barrels.
For longer barrels, I would definitely lean on the Vortex 1-10x.
Here’s an example of what I mean with the NX8 1-8 on 12” Grendel:
If I was putting it on a LMT 7.62 NATO, which tend to be very heavy guns, pick any of the 3 optics. 600yds will be boring with any of these scopes and a good .308 target load, even from a 16” barrel, unless you are shooting really small plates.
I would want a lighter rifle though that can also do CQM reasonably.
Here’s the size of the 1-10x Razor on an AR-15:
I really like the NX8 1-8x24 for how amazingly-compact it is. Is it the best scope for shooting 100yd groups? Nope, as the center dot is pretty large, but you can offset with the reticle if you’re chasing precision. I didn’t have a problem shooting sub-MOA 5rd strings with it in 6.5 Grendel with 123gr ELD-M if I remember correctly, and that was using the center dot.
It’s an awesome scope for a really lightweight, compact blaster that also works as a DM weapon.
The ATACR is really nice, but a bit large for my tastes. I lean to the Razor Gen III 1-10x if you’re going to go that big (it’s not a huge scope, but is bigger than many 1-4x24 LPVOs).
The NX8 1-8x24 is sick on higher performance intermediate cartridge AR15s, like 6.5 Grendel or 6mm ARC with short barrels.
For longer barrels, I would definitely lean on the Vortex 1-10x.
Here’s an example of what I mean with the NX8 1-8 on 12” Grendel:
If I was putting it on a LMT 7.62 NATO, which tend to be very heavy guns, pick any of the 3 optics. 600yds will be boring with any of these scopes and a good .308 target load, even from a 16” barrel, unless you are shooting really small plates.
I would want a lighter rifle though that can also do CQM reasonably.
Here’s the size of the 1-10x Razor on an AR-15:
Vortex G3 on my 10.5” (with 9” handguard) 6mm ARC AR15 with a (longer) Saker 762:
Other than the awful color, I think it’s the best LPVO right now. I spent some time behind the NF and the extra 2x was noticeable to me. I sold it because I still wanted more magnification and moved on to an offset red dot, but if I were in the market the Vortex would definitely be my choice.
I would still go Vortex on shorter barrels. I don’t have any further pictures and have since sold the scope, but even with a tape switch and flashlight up front it was fine.
Other than the awful color, I think it’s the best LPVO right now. I spent some time behind the NF and the extra 2x was noticeable to me. I sold it because I still wanted more magnification and moved on to an offset red dot, but if I were in the market the Vortex would definitely be my choice.
I would still go Vortex on shorter barrels.
I don’t have any further pictures and have since sold the scope, but even with a tape switch and flashlight up front it was fine.
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1.54" 20MOA. I had just purchased the 1.70" prior to selling the scope, and would have switched to it, as I was not often shooting prone and was using the 'red dot' aspect more. That's the highest I would personally go, though, as I don't like chin welds, and I do shoot prone from time to time. I'm back to a 1.5" mount with the new optic, since my red dot is now an offset.
It wasn't a problem, it just wasn't as comfortable, I have a longer neck so I would have just the corner of the stock in my chest with a proper cheek weld, and a sore neck. It shot fine, but if I was using a LPVO, I'd go 1.7", but I also don't use clip-on night vision which needs the 1.5x" height. 1.5x" will work fine. We're only talking about 1/5th an inch in difference here, it's just splitting hairs.
20MOA because that rifle is 6mm ARC w/ a Bartlein barrel, and I shoot it out to 800 yards or so, where it starts going transsonic. With my MV of 2320fps, I needed ~9.76 mils of elevation at 800 yards (and ~14.64 at 1000), and I like to keep my scopes in the center of their adjustment range for optical quality reasons. Again - I quickly decided a LPVO wasn't right for me. That's why I was going to swap it into a 1.70" no-cant mount before I sold it; if you're going to run an LPVO, you're probably shooting 0-300 most of the time.
I was shooting 500-800+ most of the time, so it wasn't the right optic for me. I'll have a ZCO 4-20 on it as soon as my order comes in.
Just to be fair, the Swaro Z8i does have a better FOV at 127 ft vs the Vortex 117 ft. The Nightforce ATACR 1-8x is only 96 feet while the Leupold MK8 1-8x is down to 91 ft so the Vortex is no slouch on FOV. I didn’t look at the Swaro as the reticle wasn’t what I was looking for and the price is higher.
The answer to this question is because no one makes a 2.5-10 in FFP that would be suited to the job.
Leupold Mark 4's are a thing, Vortex Viper PST line makes one, and there are LOADS of 3-18's and compact lower power scopes on the market.
Yes but too heavy for most use cases. LPVO's are mostly designated for the AR-15 platform, now you want to add a red dot. So, what we need are 2.5-10's or similar in the sub 20 ounce range with First Focal Plane and an exposed locking elevation turret with zero stop that's both durable and repeatable. Oh, and we need excellent glass. As far as I know, it doesn't exist.
Like we need a modern NXS 2.5-10x24. In the same package. Just refined for a more modern taste. Nightforce doesn’t even have to make it. Only does it matter slightly the who. It should be in the ball park of expected price. No more no less.
Why? I have a NXS 2.5-10x42 and it has a slight advantage over a Vortex G3 in light gathering due to the objective, and it has a parallax adjustment, but the Vortex was better in every other way. If you just want 10x just run a LPVO. The G3 just needs to shed a little weight and add parallax adjustment.
We need more suitable midrange 3-18/4-20 style optics that are lighter weight but high end glass to run with offsets. I’m about to pick up a ZCO 420 for my rifle but I sure wish I could find something lighter with the same optical quality. Everything is too heavy that has good glass and turrets, PRS seems to have taken over the R&D focus. I don’t want a 20lb rifle!
Why what exactly? Also the NXS x24/x32/x42 has x10 on the top end so I’m not sure what you mean there. I haven’t seen a reason for parallax adjustment on a max x10 scope. Not meaning to sound rude.
Optical designs of the ultra short scope are always going to come with that trade off. Nothing to do with PRS. The Mk5, more so, Mk6 is kind of what you described.
I apologize for lack of clarity! Why would you want a 2.5-10x scope when the 1-10x is so good? You’re not really giving up anything, and you basically get a free 90% red dot. That’s why I used my 2.5-10 as an example, the G3 Vortex was just as good or better in almost every aspect except lack of parallax and light gathering, simply because mine has a 42mm objective. I also disagree about the usefulness of adjustable parallax, the Vortex was frustrating to me due to this.
I understand short optics are a trade off. That’s said, if the mk5/6 had better glass and reticle options, I’d buy them. It was jarring for me to look through them after spending a lot of time behind TT and ZCO glass. I realize this is a small niche as not many people want to spend that much on optics, but it is entirely possible to maker lighter scopes with better quality components and achieve higher performance. Right now the trend is towards boat anchors for scopes due to the PRS focus, since weight is secondary in focus. I personally would like a few higher dollar options with weight reduction. Again, I’m sorry for my lack of explanation. I’ll submit a request to ZCO for a lighter weight offering. I’m sure we will eventually see all the manufacturers come out with options in this realm.
I’m tracking now and I’m sorry if I seemed like an asshole with my last comment. For me, why I haven’t gone the way of the G3 is reticle and a few features. I haven’t shot with one and my bias is on G3 specs vs using the NXS. Would I like to try one? Absolutely as I could be missing out.
I guess I would ask why it hasn’t been done. I would want to call it infeasible to the level you’ve described? I’m sure Ilya has a way better answer.
The parallax adjustment on LPVOs is an interesting thing. I have a Razor Gen3 1-10x24 and overall it is still my pick for a FFP LPVO in terms of what you get for the money.
However, at longer distances, lack of parallax is a little bit of a problem especially once you get past 700 or so. It is surprisingly competent on10x so longer range shooting with it on an accurate AR is quite comfortable. I will probably ask Vortex to adjust the parallax setting on this specific scope to 250 yards which will really help at longer distances. The tradeoff will be that for sharp focus inside of 150 yards I will need to dial down magnification, which is fine with me.
I am also testing a prototype March 1-10x24 Shorty that does have side focus and this little scope is really growing on me.
ILya
However, at longer distances, lack of parallax is a little bit of a problem especially once you get past 700 or so. It is surprisingly competent on10x so longer range shooting with it on an accurate AR is quite comfortable. I will probably ask Vortex to adjust the parallax setting on this specific scope to 250 yards which will really help at longer distances. The tradeoff will be that for sharp focus inside of 150 yards I will need to dial down magnification, which is fine with me.
I am also testing a prototype March 1-10x24 Shorty that does have side focus and this little scope is really growing on me.
ILya
Looks like you’re chasing the same rabbit I am.Vortex G3 on my 10.5” (with 9” handguard) 6mm ARC AR15 with a (longer) Saker 762:
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Other than the awful color, I think it’s the best LPVO right now. I spent some time behind the NF and the extra 2x was noticeable to me. I sold it because I still wanted more magnification and moved on to an offset red dot, but if I were in the market the Vortex would definitely be my choice.
I would still go Vortex on shorter barrels.
PRS isn’t the only thing driving R&D for optics though, since there is a heavy push with more capable LPVOs for the military. We’re seeing a departure from ACOGs, more LPVOs that are set up for basic carbine and DM work, and now LPVOs moving into the space on SR-25s and other rifles that normally had larger optics with 3.5-10x.
So there is definitely an incremental progress being made towards a more multi-role variable power day optic.
My only gripe over the March is what appears to be only enough real estate for a single ring or whatever is going to be designed for it.
So I have been enjoying the RG3. Haven't trained with it yet. Just a few hundred rounds of 556 and 308. Glass is clear, a slight fish eye effect at 1x which worried me. But then I looked through the nightforce atacr and it had slightly more fish eye effect than the RG3. Guessing no getting around that. I have noticed that my eye relief is about an inch further than what is stated on the box/site. Feels like I have to place it further, but then again I've only been used to an Elcan 1-4x on my AR, and a Razor 4.5-27 on my bolt gun.
Other than that, my only other gripe at the moment is the color. The zoom turn is much smoother for sure.
Other than that, my only other gripe at the moment is the color. The zoom turn is much smoother for sure.
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Any thoughts from anyone sticking with SFP versions of these 1-8/1-10 power scopes? The crosshairs are finer for precise shots. My thinking is for longer shots you're going to be on max power, so you have full reticule value anyway, and you also have value at half power. Also not to mention the illuminated dot is constant. Any thoughts?
The Razor III doesn't come in a SFP. As to the thought, for a 4-6x max then a SFP would be fine and my choice but for a 1-10x the FFP works better. The lines are plenty thin enough at .25 MOA. Actually finer than the .5 MOA lines on the SFP 1-6x. Also with a SFP scope, any one, the reticle actually covers more when you power down off the max power that is subtending correctly. With a FFP 1-10x you can use the holds on 6x-10x and still have that thinner line.
Thanks for that. I have a Mk6 1-6 and NXS2.5-10x24; I use the NXS on open gun with an off set RMR. I find zeroing and precise shots much easier with the NXS as it has a finer reticule than the MK6. I haven't had any time on the Vortex 1-10 or ATACR, so the reticules on these might be finer than the Mk6.
Yes, the K18i with 3GR is a good example of why I love SFP....however, dual focal plane would be the best option for a LPVO and I hope more companies starting utilizing that technology.
+4.5k for a dual S&B. Would love one, still think Nightforce are missing a trick by not offering the NX8 1-8 and ATACR 1-8 in SFP.
None of the BDCs really match up for me past a certain distance because of the altitude and temperature variables up here, or for anyone in higher altitude with wide temperature ranges throughout the year.Lots of us don't want a BDC that doesn't line up with the ammunition we use. That's why there are options.
Even with that, what I do like about some BDC reticles is that they give you a feel for trajectory that is represented graphically in the reticle.
The GRSC and EBR-9 reticles are ones that come to mind.
Add to the mix that I primarily like shooting 6.5 Grendel for distance, and the BDC reticles for M118LR would make more sense for that.
With the Vortex Dope Disks, you can set up multiple DA band reticle pictures and plug-and-play for a quick reference.
For either scope, what height mount are you all using with them? Those new badger mounts come with both the 1.54 and 1.7 inch heights that seem interesting. The 1.9 seems too tall though, at least for me.
I liked the 1.7" for the G3 Razor since I shot a little more head's up with it when running it as a RD, but could still get prone behind it, but the 1.5 was fine too. 1.9 is way too tall for my body, but a lot like them who shoot squared up with plates and NODs.
I own a Vortex Razor Gen 3 1-10 and have used my niece's NF ATACR 1-8. If cost is in anyway a factor the Razor wins hand down. The eye box and glass quality is almost as good. At 1X magnification it is very close to the ATACR with just some slight distortions around the edge. The 10X magnification is a nice novelty but 8 vs 10X magnification isn't that significant.
I'd only recommend the ATACR 1-8 over the Razor 1-10 if
1.) Cost isn't a factor.
2.) You have no need for the 10X mangification.
3.) You are OCD and want the best 1X magnification appearance.
4.) You are using the scope in leet operator life and death situations where someone is shooting at you. NF Atacr's do have a better track record regarding durability.
I'd only recommend the ATACR 1-8 over the Razor 1-10 if
1.) Cost isn't a factor.
2.) You have no need for the 10X mangification.
3.) You are OCD and want the best 1X magnification appearance.
4.) You are using the scope in leet operator life and death situations where someone is shooting at you. NF Atacr's do have a better track record regarding durability.
When I had the 1-10 for T&E it would do that if I was dialed up to a higher magnification but I didn't really have that issue on 1X, it was next best thing to a dedicated red dot on 1X.
