I am about to purchase a NF scope. I have put them off because I think they are the NIKE of scopes. I mean to say, paying more than for name than actual performance. I mean not to deprecate the brand, or the buyers of the brand. I just want to know is "Juice worth the Squeeze?"
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Rifle Scopes Night Force: Be Honest
- Thread starter Ronin22
- Start date
While i do not own a Nightforce, I think it is pretty well known that the law of diminishing return is strong in the optics world. With that said, if they offer the features you are after it will undoubtedly be a bulletproof, quality peice of gear.
Most of these higher end scopes you’re paying for the name. They (NF) hold their own in most of the shooting world. Objectively speaking.
The biggest thing is if a scope has the features you want. Having a tamed expectation is big thing to consider. Don’t expect as good as glass quality as some other brands. That’s not saying NF is bad, just maybe not always as good.
Lastly, not all models are equal in my opinion. Comparing a NXS to a ATACR is apples to Oranges imo.
The biggest thing is if a scope has the features you want. Having a tamed expectation is big thing to consider. Don’t expect as good as glass quality as some other brands. That’s not saying NF is bad, just maybe not always as good.
Lastly, not all models are equal in my opinion. Comparing a NXS to a ATACR is apples to Oranges imo.
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Depends on you, your needs, your eyes, your purpose for the glass, so many factors which is why there are so many scopes at so many prices.
NF doesnt make garbage so you wont be disappointed.
NF doesnt make garbage so you wont be disappointed.
Got 5 nightforces never been let down by one. Yes s&b zco, tt, might be better in some aspects but the additional 1k plus over nf has never been justifiable to be.
If you buy NF don't pay full retail.... Plenty of great deals out there (if you keep an eye out) that make them hard to beat for the money. I'm seeing new 7-35s going for $2700ish, 4-16s for $2Kish, even less for a lightly used ones. I was only able to get $2300 for my new 4-20 Mil-XT ATACR.
If you like their reticles the most, then buy a NF…but buy an ATACR F1. Used/new, doesn’t matter, but definitely no need to pay retail prices on any high end optic in 2023.
I’ve owned multiple NXS F1’s and ATACR F1’s. I like em a lot. I prefer the Mil-XT in the ATACR. They’re durable and they track. I beat the shit out of my gear and it gets bounced around in the bed of the truck while off-roading to my shooting spots.
I’ve used plenty of 5-25 S&B’s, which I’ve liked but never purchased one for my own rifle because of the reticles.
I’ve looked through some ZCOs and liked em, but they didn’t have the MPCT-2X when I was buying. Plus at the price point, I didn’t see it as worth more than 2k over the deal I got on my 7-35 Mil-XT.
I’d like to have tried the 6-36 S&B or 7-35 TT when I bought my AXSR but neither have reticles I like…and I’m not paying almost another 1k to have the S&B reticle swap done.
End of the day, I’m very happy with NF. I’m not missing shots because I have an ATACR over a TT/SB/ZCO. …and same can be said for most. You also aren’t missing shots because you have a Leupold MK5 (that PR2 reticle is tits) instead of a TT.
Find the reticle you like and go with that. If you aren’t sure, find a match near you and go hang out. Ask if you can look through the various optics at the end of the match. Most will be more than happy to show off their cash sinks
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I’ve owned multiple NXS F1’s and ATACR F1’s. I like em a lot. I prefer the Mil-XT in the ATACR. They’re durable and they track. I beat the shit out of my gear and it gets bounced around in the bed of the truck while off-roading to my shooting spots.
I’ve used plenty of 5-25 S&B’s, which I’ve liked but never purchased one for my own rifle because of the reticles.
I’ve looked through some ZCOs and liked em, but they didn’t have the MPCT-2X when I was buying. Plus at the price point, I didn’t see it as worth more than 2k over the deal I got on my 7-35 Mil-XT.
I’d like to have tried the 6-36 S&B or 7-35 TT when I bought my AXSR but neither have reticles I like…and I’m not paying almost another 1k to have the S&B reticle swap done.
End of the day, I’m very happy with NF. I’m not missing shots because I have an ATACR over a TT/SB/ZCO. …and same can be said for most. You also aren’t missing shots because you have a Leupold MK5 (that PR2 reticle is tits) instead of a TT.
Find the reticle you like and go with that. If you aren’t sure, find a match near you and go hang out. Ask if you can look through the various optics at the end of the match. Most will be more than happy to show off their cash sinks
.
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Avoid the SHV line, they are ok but overpriced (in my opinion), and certainly not at as durable or rugged as the other models.
NXS
NX8
ATACR
Increasing in optical quality in that order. And I’m happy with my NXS and ATACR. Didn’t buy any NX8 but have used them and they are nice.
Of those, some are made in Japan (LOW) and some are made in Idaho.
NXS
NX8
ATACR
Increasing in optical quality in that order. And I’m happy with my NXS and ATACR. Didn’t buy any NX8 but have used them and they are nice.
Of those, some are made in Japan (LOW) and some are made in Idaho.
Don’t waste your money. They are completely overpriced for what you get and pray you don’t need to use the warranty.
There are a lot better scopes out there for the money. Don’t be fooled by all the hype. The Nightforce following is strong…..
There are a lot better scopes out there for the money. Don’t be fooled by all the hype. The Nightforce following is strong…..
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NF is a good scope but the whole durability being so outstanding is overstated imo. They are solid and if you like the reticle , then go for it, but I'd go for atacr if you do.
I’ve bought and sold and bought again. I always come back to Nightforce. I’ve used the warranty on a 4-16 and the process was nothing short of what one should expect. They are not the best glass. That’s not their market.
Go 4-16x42 with either the Mil-XT or Mil-C. That’s a shit hot optic for an SPR.
I have a 4-16x42 Mil-XT on my "DMR/SPR" AR. Love it but if I'm being honest the eyebox seems a bit tight at higher mag. It's very manageable and I like everything else about it. There's some great deals in the exchange on that exact scope.
Most of the top ELR guys seem to be using them. It’s not necessarily the glass as it is the Swiss watch tracking they depend on. Glass is definitely good enough though.
I’d have to agree with most of what everyone else is saying. Especially the advice to go straight to the ATACR. I started with the NXS then upgraded. Sold the NXS for the same price I paid for it a year later. If NF is not what you’re looking for, you’ll be able to get your money out of it when you sell.
Only if you want reliable turrets with a battlefield pedigree. $1500 to $3000 is a wide assortment of choices.
I’ve owned several 4-16 atacr. As well as the 4-20 and several 7-35. And some NXS and NF comps
That 4-16 is a great optic for a hunting or AR DMR style platform. Clear optics, low profile/locking elevation, covered windage and overall smaller sized optic.
MIL XT reticle is a great choice
Buy used from the PX here and you can sell for same if you decide you want more
The 7-35 ATACR is imo the go to/top dog of the NF lineup. It also has the best optics in my opinion. This is generally the NF model you’ll see if you look on competitors gear lists. Especially in the ELR department
The 5-25 (I haven’t owned one) is said to be the worst in the glass department
The 4-16 doesn’t tunnel (at least the ones I’ve had) the other atacr’s do slightly
My only dislikes are the parallax isn’t even close to the markings, the push button illumination isn’t the greatest. Making adjustments fast in the illumination can be tricky vs just using a dial. Also the objective rotating with the zoom range is another. Not a deal breaker but your caps rotate with it and it makes it tricky to run a triggercam if you so desire
I own both NF and ZCO on my main rifles. I still really like and respect the NF atacr for what they are. Especially considering they’ve been around and proven for many years now
Otherwise check out a Burris XTRIII if you want a decent but cheaper option
That 4-16 is a great optic for a hunting or AR DMR style platform. Clear optics, low profile/locking elevation, covered windage and overall smaller sized optic.
MIL XT reticle is a great choice
Buy used from the PX here and you can sell for same if you decide you want more
The 7-35 ATACR is imo the go to/top dog of the NF lineup. It also has the best optics in my opinion. This is generally the NF model you’ll see if you look on competitors gear lists. Especially in the ELR department
The 5-25 (I haven’t owned one) is said to be the worst in the glass department
The 4-16 doesn’t tunnel (at least the ones I’ve had) the other atacr’s do slightly
My only dislikes are the parallax isn’t even close to the markings, the push button illumination isn’t the greatest. Making adjustments fast in the illumination can be tricky vs just using a dial. Also the objective rotating with the zoom range is another. Not a deal breaker but your caps rotate with it and it makes it tricky to run a triggercam if you so desire
I own both NF and ZCO on my main rifles. I still really like and respect the NF atacr for what they are. Especially considering they’ve been around and proven for many years now
Otherwise check out a Burris XTRIII if you want a decent but cheaper option
I've had a 1/2 a gaggle of NF scopes - and a 1/2 a gaggle of L&S scopes, I think 7 NF and 8 L&S. I currently have 4 NF and 1 L&S (and 2 VO and 2 trijicon (not count RMRs) and 1 ELCAN - that might be it. If I was buying today, more NF. Had 4 ATACRs (have 2 now) 1 NXS (0 now) 2 NX8 (2 now). If I was buying today NX8 (more bang for the buck - the atacrs are better but not $1k better 
).
Have never had a tier 1 ( TT, ZCO, S&B, etc.) maybe I never will, the NFs get the job done that I need doing. March is on the "interesting list, the HM 4.5-28x critter.
I spent my tier 1 money on thermals
).Have never had a tier 1 ( TT, ZCO, S&B, etc.) maybe I never will, the NFs get the job done that I need doing. March is on the "interesting list, the HM 4.5-28x critter.
I spent my tier 1 money on thermals
What's your main use for the scope? There might be something better in the price range out there.
I have a recent (USA) production ATACR F1 5-25x56 MIL-XT and while I like the scope for what I paid for it at my discount, I don't feel it was worth the full $3,100 MSRP price. There can be better purchased in that price range. The parallax is WAY off (apparently this is a NF thing, not just an ATACR thing), and the glass and tunneling are not indicative of a $3,100 MSRP scope, IMO. The turrets are amazing, and I love the MIL-XT reticle. Tracking is great.
The parallax being off isn't a deal-breaker, even though it's annoying, but the glass was kind of a bummer. It's extremely clear, it's just very neutral tinted coatings, and it isn't very bright at all. And my eyes prefer brighter optics. So that's also a bit of a personal preference gripe. Same thing with S&B, and I personally think their glass tinting is horrific...But some love it. Everyone's eyes are different.
I can't tell you what I paid for it, but for what I did pay for it out the door, I feel the juice was worth the squeeze.
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IMO they make good $2k’ish scopes. I have some NX8’s and have been very happy. Because I don’t expect too much at 2k. I think that if your looking at more than 2k then S&B>TT>ZCO is what you seek.
Having said this, Zeiss is another strong player in the 2k arena.
Having said this, Zeiss is another strong player in the 2k arena.
I wouldn't even put S&B in the +$2K category... It's 30+ year old technology at premium prices. I'd keep it right there with NF.
The Zeiss LRP S3 is a lot of scope for the money. Really like my 6-36x56 ZF-MRi.
Nightforce makes an incredibly durable, reliable rifle scope. Rokslide does really good evaluations of rifles scopes, they are dropped in a repeatable manner, NF always do very well, most other brands do not do nearly as well:
https://rokslide.com/forums/forums/rifle-scope-field-evaluations.133/
https://rokslide.com/forums/forums/rifle-scope-field-evaluations.133/
If you like the reticle go for it. ATACRs hold zero and track with solid glass. I'm not disappointed with any of the ones I have but since I like the ZCO mpct3x reticle more i'm using that on my higher end rifles and the atacrs I have still have on the others. The cheap guns get the Leopolds Mk5 7-35s that i'm to lazy to sell
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That whole fiasco where that guy went to youtube and had to file a suite against them just to get them to honor the warranty. Also a couple members hinted about getting a hard time from the warranty department too turned me off. I looked at getting one through their government program when they came out with decent MOA (I know, I know) reticle and it was still a little much for me to pull the trigger.
I own a couple of NF and compared to many other similarly priced scope brands out there with better warranties, I feel they're overpriced for what they offer and hearing about problems with some of their customers getting trouble with their warranty really concerns me especially with their limited 5 year warranty on their electronics/illuminated reticles.
I haven't purchased any more NF scopes after buying my first Athlon Ares BTR G2 4.5-27x50 for around $700 and comparing it to my $1900 (discounted priced) 4-32x50 NX8 F1. The NX8 is the better scope made in Japan vs China for the Athlon but not at close to triple the cost and they're currently on sale for $565.49 right now. Their warranty is lifetime including their electronics. Unfortunately nothing coming from Vortex short of a Razor HD Gen2 can beat this one.
I opted not to buy the 2.5-20 NX8 since it's literally impossible to see it's FFP reticle unless you crank it up to at least 8x-10x which IMHO is not useable in real world shooting situations while the 4-32x NX8 is a lot easier to pick up the FFP reticle on it's low magnification. I think the glass is also clearer on the 4-32x NX8 as well.
The SHV 5-20x56 seems to have very good glass with only average turrets. I actually prefer it over the similarly priced Tract Toric 4-20x50. I thought it was overpriced until I compared it to my Tract Torics and Athlon Cronus and a friend's $1500 Element Optics Nexus 5-20x50.
I didn't buy the ATACR after looking through one. I expected a lot more for the price and would rather buy another March instead when spending that kind of money and after the Vortex Razor Gen 3, for a lot cheaper at $2000 and under it's a real no brainer comparable quality if not better especially the glass and with a far superior quick and painless hassle free no questions asked lifetime warranty too that they even pay for your round trip shipping if you ever need to use their warranty.
Arken also pays for your round trip warranty as well LOL ... I don't know of any other brands that actually foot the bill on shipping whenever warranty is needed. Anyone else knows who else does this please speak up.
What really bugs me is with most companies you have to pay out of pocket to ship them in for warranty even for brand new straight out of the box defective scopes. It's expensive considering adding full insurance to them adding to your total purchase price. May as well buy cheaper priced Sightmark Presidio scopes where there seems to be zero quality complaints nor warranty returns.
I haven't purchased any more NF scopes after buying my first Athlon Ares BTR G2 4.5-27x50 for around $700 and comparing it to my $1900 (discounted priced) 4-32x50 NX8 F1. The NX8 is the better scope made in Japan vs China for the Athlon but not at close to triple the cost and they're currently on sale for $565.49 right now. Their warranty is lifetime including their electronics. Unfortunately nothing coming from Vortex short of a Razor HD Gen2 can beat this one.
I opted not to buy the 2.5-20 NX8 since it's literally impossible to see it's FFP reticle unless you crank it up to at least 8x-10x which IMHO is not useable in real world shooting situations while the 4-32x NX8 is a lot easier to pick up the FFP reticle on it's low magnification. I think the glass is also clearer on the 4-32x NX8 as well.
The SHV 5-20x56 seems to have very good glass with only average turrets. I actually prefer it over the similarly priced Tract Toric 4-20x50. I thought it was overpriced until I compared it to my Tract Torics and Athlon Cronus and a friend's $1500 Element Optics Nexus 5-20x50.
I didn't buy the ATACR after looking through one. I expected a lot more for the price and would rather buy another March instead when spending that kind of money and after the Vortex Razor Gen 3, for a lot cheaper at $2000 and under it's a real no brainer comparable quality if not better especially the glass and with a far superior quick and painless hassle free no questions asked lifetime warranty too that they even pay for your round trip shipping if you ever need to use their warranty.
Arken also pays for your round trip warranty as well LOL ... I don't know of any other brands that actually foot the bill on shipping whenever warranty is needed. Anyone else knows who else does this please speak up.
What really bugs me is with most companies you have to pay out of pocket to ship them in for warranty even for brand new straight out of the box defective scopes. It's expensive considering adding full insurance to them adding to your total purchase price. May as well buy cheaper priced Sightmark Presidio scopes where there seems to be zero quality complaints nor warranty returns.
The NF Atacr dominates the ELR equipment list. You have guys spending eye-watering amounts of cash to compete and they put a NF on their rifles. Tells me a few things.
Lots of internal elevation
They track
Glass is good enough for 2 mile shots
They can take recoil abuse
Lots of internal elevation
They track
Glass is good enough for 2 mile shots
They can take recoil abuse
I’m a follower. Followed myself four times. Only riflescope I have used centerfire. Lots of travel and crazy stages. Never a scope mechanical issue. NSX are trustworthy. Factory was good to me with a clean and inspect I sent one in for. All I can tell you.
friends own nf products and are really happy with them , they also buy new scopes every other week trying to get just a little more . I did not follow there example I got another brand I am happy while they are running a 5x25 I am in the 5x50 range I paid 1/2 the money and now own 3 of those scopes they are happy I am happy does it matter which is which if both parties are happy with there buys .yea I went delta stryker as at the time I got it , it was 1600, and the trijicon was still almost 2k . and this last time I picked up one I went to ed west they had me the scope in less than a week , to me there was zero difference view wise or function wise already owning two get what ever makes you and your pocket feel happiest .
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The king of chinesium has entered the building
Did you get the Trijicon Tenmile or Delta Stryker version? I'm just waiting for another brand label to start selling them to buy from for a better overall warranty just in case.
First of all they aren’t made in china. Second I cancelled my order because regardless of where they’re made I’m not going to be satisfied with a bargain bin optic.
I don’t give a shit where people think they’re made, the manufacture says they’re made in the Czech Republic and there’s nothing but others beliefs and you regurgitating them that says otherwise.
"Night Force"??? We talking the scope company (Nightforce) or what the ATF and FBI have been doing to civilians who own that evil pistol arm brace that the current administration thinks makes the pistol more powerful and has decided to allow the ATF to make laws which they are not allowed to do (does our government even remember a little document called the Constitution)?
Okay, all kidding aside, you are opening a can of worms by asking this question, but yes, NF is somewhat the Nike brand of the sport optics world, they have undoubtedly one of the best marketing campaigns out there, helped by a number of mil contracts and stories of durability that venture from the plausible to the unrealistic.
With regard to the numerous comments about being "overpriced" any scope company is welcome to charge whatever they'd like, the market will dictate whether it is worth it. One thing NF has going in their favor is they haven't had any price increases through the pandemic while almost everyone else has. If NF suddenly raised their prices 80% (ahem S&B) then I think they would struggle in civilian sales. I think Tangent Theta is overpriced, but guess what, they continue to sell scopes at a rate that sustains their revenue so does it really matter whether anyone thinks they're overpriced? If sales of a particular item that used to be high are suddenly lacking, a company typically does a market analysis - has someone else come out with a better/cheaper product, is the economy struggling, etc. Almost every sport optics company offer some kind of sale/deal on products except for NF, ZCO and TT (I'm sure there are others but that's what pops to mind) - Schmidt is an enigma, they have a history of raising prices to astronomical levels in the USA only to come back down to earth after a few years, we are in the down cycle with S&B once again but oddly only on certain products. Schmidt seems to have a love/hate relationship with the US market.
Having said all that, Nightforce does indeed make (or rather spec through an OEM) very good Japanese scopes. Over the years the consensus appears to be to avoid the ATACR 5-25 while all other ATACR's do very well. ATACR's tend to be very limited in FOV at the low end but pick up fast as you increase magnification outpacing some of the competition by the top mag, for this reason I typically do not recommend ATACR if one is looking for increased FOV at low magnification. Are there "better" scopes from other manufacturers that are cheaper? Yes, but you're playing a game of trade-offs, maybe some have slightly better glass but worse turrets, or worse reticles, or worse illumination. NF has a very good feature set for the price that is only bolstered by their reputation. Remember when Nightforce introduced the Beast, it was supposed to be the end all be all scope of the optics world representing the best glass, best turrets, best manufacturing and so on, but where is the Beast today, one can speculate that the market was unwilling to "pay the price" of this top dollar optic and it quickly faded into history.
In closing, the current ATACR series is getting a bit "old", the 1-8 is the newest with the 7-35 already at 5 years old which in scope years (similar to dog years) is getting up there
I would love to see NF come out with an ATACR II that capitalizes on 6x erectors and wide angle eyepieces using the latest glass technology that everyone else is capitalizing on from Japan these days. A 2-12x42 and a 3-18x42/50 would be just the ticket to rejuvenate the MPVO and mid-range class... just sayin'.OP, for your particular use case, I agree with Reaper and Jzer below, the 4-16x42 is a superb optic for DMR/SPR use
Nightforce ATACR is a great $2K Japanese scope. Vortex Razor is a great $2K Japanese scope. Theta is a great $3K (Canadian?) scope.
I agree with most of that."Night Force"??? We talking the scope company (Nightforce) or what the ATF and FBI have been doing to civilians who own that evil pistol arm brace that the current administration thinks makes the pistol more powerful and has decided to allow the ATF to make laws which they are not allowed to do (does our government even remember a little document called the Constitution)?
Okay, all kidding aside, you are opening a can of worms by asking this question, but yes, NF is somewhat the Nike brand of the sport optics world, they have undoubtedly one of the best marketing campaigns out there, helped by a number of mil contracts and stories of durability that venture from the plausible to the unrealistic.
With regard to the numerous comments about being "overpriced" any scope company is welcome to charge whatever they'd like, the market will dictate whether it is worth it. One thing NF has going in their favor is they haven't had any price increases through the pandemic while almost everyone else has. If NF suddenly raised their prices 80% (ahem S&B) then I think they would struggle in civilian sales. I think Tangent Theta is overpriced, but guess what, they continue to sell scopes at a rate that sustains their revenue so does it really matter whether anyone thinks they're overpriced? If sales of a particular item that used to be high are suddenly lacking, a company typically does a market analysis - has someone else come out with a better/cheaper product, is the economy struggling, etc. Almost every sport optics company offer some kind of sale/deal on products except for NF, ZCO and TT (I'm sure there are others but that's what pops to mind) - Schmidt is an enigma, they have a history of raising prices to astronomical levels in the USA only to come back down to earth after a few years, we are in the down cycle with S&B once again but oddly only on certain products. Schmidt seems to have a love/hate relationship with the US market.
Having said all that, Nightforce does indeed make (or rather spec through an OEM) very good Japanese scopes. Over the years the consensus appears to be to avoid the ATACR 5-25 while all other ATACR's do very well. ATACR's tend to be very limited in FOV at the low end but pick up fast as you increase magnification outpacing some of the competition by the top mag, for this reason I typically do not recommend ATACR if one is looking for increased FOV at low magnification. Are there "better" scopes from other manufacturers that are cheaper? Yes, but you're playing a game of trade-offs, maybe some have slightly better glass but worse turrets, or worse reticles, or worse illumination. NF has a very good feature set for the price that is only bolstered by their reputation. Remember when Nightforce introduced the Beast, it was supposed to be the end all be all scope of the optics world representing the best glass, best turrets, best manufacturing and so on, but where is the Beast today, one can speculate that the market was unwilling to "pay the price" of this top dollar optic and it quickly faded into history.
In closing, the current ATACR series is getting a bit "old", the 1-8 is the newest with the 7-35 already at 5 years old which in scope years (similar to dog years) is getting up there
OP, for your particular use case, I agree with Reaper and Jzer below, the 4-16x42 is a superb optic for DMR/SPR use
The BEAST was a flop partly because of a ridiculously complex and expensive elevation turret that had that stupid lever to move to get of .2 mil increments. Aside from that a beast was nothing special, as it was simply the same as the 5-25 F1. Both of those models were made in Idaho, not Japan.
the 5-25 f2, the 7-35 f1 and 7-35 f2 are from LOW.
They do need to come out with a gen2 atacr imo.
Assume L&S = Leupold (& Steven’s?)I've had a 1/2 a gaggle of NF scopes - and a 1/2 a gaggle of L&S scopes, I think 7 NF and 8 L&S. I currently have 4 NF and 1 L&S (and 2 VO and 2 trijicon (not count RMRs) and 1 ELCAN - that might be it. If I was buying today, more NF. Had 4 ATACRs (have 2 now) 1 NXS (0 now) 2 NX8 (2 now). If I was buying today NX8 (more bang for the buck - the atacrs are better but not $1k better
Have never had a tier 1 ( TT, ZCO, S&B, etc.) maybe I never will, the NFs get the job done that I need doing. March is on the "interesting list, the HM 4.5-28x critter.
I spent my tier 1 money on thermals
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