Nightforce Atacr 4-20 x50

[Glassaholic]

I like the 4-20 range too. Do you have time behind a S&B 3-20x50 PMII? I'm talking about the regular model, not the U-S. If a guy could score a gently used example for @ $2.2K, would it be worth consideration? Do you know if it tunnels at low mag like other PMII models? Seems like this S&B might be the goldilocks scope I'm looking for.

Yes I do have experience with the standard PM II 3-20, in fact, it was my very first Schmidt and I absolutely loved it, just wasn't a fan of the reticle (H2CMR). I like it more than the Ultra Short as I believe it performs better optically. If you have found a PM II 3-20 for $2200 and like the reticle I would jump all over that! In fact, if you decide not to, send me a PM with the link as I would be interested

Oh, and TP is right, it does not tunnel. I believe the PMII 5-25 is the only Schmidt design that does tunnel, but they have a boatload of scopes so do not quote me on that.

 

[TacticalPlinker]

You give me more credit than is due. I don't want to speak for ILya but for me in particular I've burned a few bridges with my "honest" reviews, those reviews I think they do care about , but as for anyone actually listening to my recommendations, most of the time it falls on deaf ears - I'm just an annoying buzz in the distance . I post here on the Hide and sometimes on ILya's platforms, but that's it, I'm not a social media guy and 2020 with cancel culture proved why, so it is likely that I fly under the radar for most manufacturer's out there. As for having a "finger on the pulse of the market" I suppose I may be "in the know" a little more than some through my various contacts and such, but most of the time I'm finding out about new products at the same time you are, there are some exceptions, but those are the "exceptions and not the rule".

I appreciate your attention to detail. At least you are passionate on the subject matter. Don't go changing brother

 

[SRPowah]

I've been pleading for more 4-20 designs from manufacturer's, Burris (XTR II) and Tract Toric delivered on the budget end and ZCO delivered on the alpha side but there seems to be a lack of middle tier options unless you consider 3-18ish range.

I am also a big fan of the 4-20 range, but I wouldn't say Burris and Tract delivered the "budget" end at $1200. I understand everyone has their own idea on what is considered budget, but the Athlon Helos BTR 4-20x coming in at <$600 seems promising.

If we could get a 4-20 AMG at the low/mid $2k price point, I would be ecstatic.

 

[deersniper]

Does no one want a alpha 2-12 / 2-16.

 

[Glassaholic]

I am also a big fan of the 4-20 range, but I wouldn't say Burris and Tract delivered the "budget" end at $1200. I understand everyone has their own idea on what is considered budget, but the Athlon Helos BTR 4-20x coming in at <$600 seems promising.

I have made a vow to never buy communist crap again, okay, well maybe not a vow but financing our enemies is not my cup of tea these days, so while it's hard to avoid I am trying to only support "free" nations, but heck is the USA even "free" anymore, when you can't go into a grocery store to buy groceries without being forced to wear a mask, that ain't free, sorry, off my soapbox now.

If we could get a 4-20 AMG at the low/mid $2k price point, I would be ecstatic.

I think the day after I reviewed the 6-24 AMG I was asking Vortex to build a 4-20, that was years ago and I remind them every year. Maybe in a year or two we'll finally get to see another AMG and like you, I hope it is in the 4-20 range.

 

[Glassaholic]

Does no one want a alpha 2-12 / 2-16.

Absolutely! I'm just getting into NV and this would be ideal for a lot of those applications.

 

[deersniper]

Absolutely! I'm just getting into NV and this would be ideal for a lot of those applications.

The 2.5-20 works great lol. I know you love that scope.

 

[TacticalPlinker]

Does no one want a alpha 2-12 / 2-16.

Absolutely

2-16×44 tactical hunter (think LRHS) for game and semiautomatic practical accuracy out to 800 on small targets with Day-light'ish illumination under 25 ounces. Would make an excellent choice for a 5.56 SPR and SR25

The ATACR 4-16 F1 is almost perfect. Just needs better low end FOV for dynamic shooting...

 

[Glassaholic]

The 2.5-20 works great lol. I know you love that scope.

@SkyScrapin and @wigwamitus have been slowly chipping away at my disdain for this scope. For NV application specifically with a SIMRAD it sounds just about perfect. If NF put it in the ATACR series with a better optical formula to correct for all its issues and charged another $1000 for it, I'd probably be a huge fan and singing its praises, that being said I'd also take an ATACR 2.6-13x44 with proper reticle and wide FOV.

 

[deersniper]

I'd also take an ATACR 2.6-13x44 with proper reticle and wide FOV.

Yes and re steal Leupolds elevation knob.

For NV application specifically with a SIMRAD it sounds just about perfect

Yeah all or most of the deficiencies go away when used with a clip on.

 

[Glassaholic]

Yes and re steal Leupolds elevation knob.

You mean like on the 4-16x42, yes, I love that lock!

Yeah all or most of the deficiencies go away when used with a clip on.

You too, the peer pressure is getting almost too great for me to handle

 

[Quickoz]

Has anyone out this thru the ringer yet on their 22? This is about the only scopw that ticks all the boxes for me so far for my Vudoo Three60. But hard to find reviews of it so far.

 

[Mordamer]

Has anyone out this thru the ringer yet on their 22? This is about the only scopw that ticks all the boxes for me so far for my Vudoo Three60. But hard to find reviews of it so far.

Haven't shot a match with it yet, but it works well on the .22. It's just like the other ATACR's for the most part.

 

[Braunschweiger]

Re-opening the thread. I purchased the 4-20 F1 Mil-C several months ago but have not yet mounted it as I am waiting on barrels for a new build. I also have a TT 3-15P and there's no doubt the low-light capability and clarity at twilight is better with the TT. The tunneling is present at lowest magnification on the NF. It's hard to say which of these optics I will keep being as I got both for quite a bit less than retail. So the value is there for either.

 

[JB.IC]

I don’t understand why NF scopes tunnel when other manufacturers are able to avoid tunneling.

 

[stello1001]

I don’t understand why NF scopes tunnel when other manufacturers are able to avoid tunneling.

Agreed. I feel they are a prestigious enough or experienced enough manufacture to be having thus happen. Everyone else gets it right!

 

[hafejd30]

Any further opinions on the Atacr 4-20?

 

[TwistedOneinSeven]

Any further opinions on the Atacr 4-20?

Find a used ATACR 7-35 or spend some more and get a ZCo.

Performance wise, NFI.
Wait time for delivery, its been 17 months.
Exact number delivered in Australia, zero.

 

[Chasing3]

Field of view specs for the NF 4-20 kinda sucks in my opinion compared to it’s competition. For the price point I’d just save more for the ZCO 4-20. When I look at that particular mag range, I want a larger FOV on the lower end and NF just doesn’t have it.

 

[hafejd30]

Field of view specs for the NF 4-20 kinda sucks in my opinion compared to it’s competition. For the price point I’d just save more for the ZCO 4-20. When I look at that particular mag range, I want a larger FOV on the lower end and NF just doesn’t have it.

Thank you

I’ll be getting a 7-35 NF ATACR as well. But want to try a ZCO 4-20 or 5-27 as well. Pinching pennies as I research my options

 

[blbennett1288]

I am looking to get into an ATACR 4-20. I currently have a 4-16 and 7-35. Primary use would be on an ATX for PRS and night hunting with a Thermal. I really don’t want to have to switch between the 7-35 for PRS and 4-16 for night hunting. I want the x4 power on the low end for FOV.

For those that have the 4-20, what are your thoughts on the scope for that use?

 

[Braunschweiger]

I am looking to get into an ATACR 4-20. I currently have a 4-16 and 7-35. Primary use would be on an ATX for PRS and night hunting with a Thermal. I really don’t want to have to switch between the 7-35 for PRS and 4-16 for night hunting. I want the x4 power on the low end for FOV.

For those that have the 4-20, what are your thoughts on the scope for that use?

Of all the NF optics I’ve had (pretty much every model) the 4-20 was my favorite of them all. Perfect mag range for most applications, size and weight on par with most other optics in the class, clarity, eyebox, all checked the boxes for me.

 

[deersniper]

I am looking to get into an ATACR 4-20. I currently have a 4-16 and 7-35. Primary use would be on an ATX for PRS and night hunting with a Thermal. I really don’t want to have to switch between the 7-35 for PRS and 4-16 for night hunting. I want the x4 power on the low end for FOV.

For those that have the 4-20, what are your thoughts on the scope for that use?

ZCO all day every day
PRS and thermal


Dedicated thermal and remove day scope would be cheaper

 

[blbennett1288]

ZCO all day every day
PRS and thermal


Dedicated thermal and remove day scope would be cheaper

Meh, not crazy about the ZCO turrets. I did really like the image through ZCO’s.

I already have the thermal, 4-16, and 7-35. I would be departing with one of the scopes to obtain the 4-20.

 

[deersniper]

Meh, not crazy about the ZCO turrets. I did really like the image through ZCO’s.

You can get non locking turrets now.

Not to try and sway ya lol but the 2.5-20 is one of
My favorite thermal clip on scopes if
You change your mind about swapping back and forth

2.5 FOV is real nice for situations

 

[Glassaholic]

I am looking to get into an ATACR 4-20. I currently have a 4-16 and 7-35. Primary use would be on an ATX for PRS and night hunting with a Thermal. I really don’t want to have to switch between the 7-35 for PRS and 4-16 for night hunting. I want the x4 power on the low end for FOV.

For those that have the 4-20, what are your thoughts on the scope for that use?

FOV on the 4-16x42 is quite a bit larger than the 4-20x50 at 4x FYI. The new Zeiss 4-25x50 LRP S3 might be a very interesting option. For clip on use, the NX8 2.5-20x50 would likely be a better option as well as you may find the FOV at 4x rather limiting.

 

[blbennett1288]

The FOV difference is 3.3’ between the NF 4-16 and 4-20. The ZCO 420 has 6.9’ more FOV than the NF420

Not really interested in having a dedicated scope like the NX8 2.5-20 for the thermal. I want something that can pull double duty for PRS and Thermal.

I have been looking hard at S&B 3-20 and 3-27’s since I think that would be my best option. Both have 42.7ft FOV @ x3.

 

[Glassaholic]

The FOV difference is 3.3’ between the NF 4-16 and 4-20. The ZCO 420 has 6.9’ more FOV than the NF420

Not really interested in having a dedicated scope like the NX8 2.5-20 for the thermal. I want something that can pull double duty for PRS and Thermal.

I have been looking hard at S&B 3-20 and 3-27’s since I think that would be my best option. Both have 42.7ft FOV @ x3.

What do you mean by dedicated scope with the 2.5-20 vs the 4-20? Are you worried about the NX8 not being able to hold up under PRS pressure? ATACR has better turrets but NX8 aren't horrible, optically the NX8 2.5-20 is pretty impressive, sure it'll be a bit more finicky for parallax and DOF so if that's what you're worried about I get it.

Your numbers are wrong on Schmidt, they are both 39' at 100 yards FYI... I would recommend the US 3-20 over the 3-27 if you went that route.

 

[blbennett1288]

What do you mean by dedicated scope with the 2.5-20 vs the 4-20? Are you worried about the NX8 not being able to hold up under PRS pressure? ATACR has better turrets but NX8 aren't horrible, optically the NX8 2.5-20 is pretty impressive, sure it'll be a bit more finicky for parallax and DOF so if that's what you're worried about I get it.

Your numbers are wrong on Schmidt, they are both 39' at 100 yards FYI... I would recommend the US 3-20 over the 3-27 if you went that route.

Copy that, I am an idiot, 13m FOV at 100 METERS not yards lol. I am delirious, newborn brain.

Why would you recommend the 3-20 over the 3-37?

I have handled a couple NX8’s 2.5-20 and have been less than impressed. I am mostly worried about having to adjust parallax more than what I use currently, the ATACR 7-35. I have a feeling the 4-20 and 7-35 have similar parallaxes based on them both being 10- 11m to infinity.

 

[Glassaholic]

Copy that, I am an idiot, 13m FOV at 100 METERS not yards lol. I am delirious, newborn brain.

No worries, I've made that mistake before myself, meters and yards and feet get really confusing when mfr's don't offer much information.

Why would you recommend the 3-20 over the 3-37?

I have handled a couple NX8’s 2.5-20 and have been less than impressed. I am mostly worried about having to adjust parallax more than what I use currently, the ATACR 7-35. I have a feeling the 4-20 and 7-35 have similar parallaxes based on them both being 10- 11m to infinity.

My original copy of the NX8 was a blithering mess optically and I was quite vocal about that, not sure if NF sent me a dud or if they pushed it to market too early and decided to fix it after getting a lot of negative feedback, but the one I tested earlier this year was like a completely different scope that seemed to fix all the optic issues of that early version. I would image the parallax and DOF on the ATACR series is better as the design of the ATACR lends itself to be more forgiving in these areas.

I have a couple reviews coming soon with the Schmidt 3-27, I was not as impressed as I hoped with it. If you need 3x on the bottom and over 20x on top then there is nothing better, but a 9x erector scope has its compromises and those came out during my review process, it lagged behind quite a few scopes in the lineup optically, plus it is a very long scope and since you want to use a clip on the ultra short would be much better suited for that purpose. If you do consider an ultra short, I'd highly recommend you find a newer one with the DT II+ turrets, these are some of the best (turrets) out there and far better than the older DT low profile turrets Schmidt used to use with Ultra Shorts, those were some of the worst turrets at 18 mil per rev (way too close together) with knurling that wanted to rip your skin.

 

[txbass97]

Re-opening this thread. I have a NF ATACR 4-20x50 F1 showing up today - will try to take it out in the next week or two as soon as the Spuhr mount I purchased shows up so I can mount it.

 

[TacticalPlinker]

Re-opening this thread. I have a NF ATACR 4-20x50 F1 showing up today - will try to take it out in the next week or two as soon as the Spuhr mount I purchased shows up so I can mount it.

Awesome. I'm seriously considering a used 5-20 Ultra Short in the same price range . 3k is my hard limit , so this ATACR is also an option

 

[txbass97]

Awesome. I'm seriously considering a used 5-20 Ultra Short in the same price range . 3k is my hard limit , so this ATACR is also an option

I almost went for the ATACR 4-16x42, but I couldn't find one with the Mil-XT reticle that I wanted.

Called up the guys at NF, and they told me they didn't have an ETA on that model, but the 4-20x50 was replacing the 4-16x42 anyways.

So I just went full send and bought the 4-20.

As it may be, the 4-16x42 MIL-XT is back in stock at EuroOptic, just a couple of days after I placed my order.

That always happens to me. Oh well, hopefully I like the 4-20.

 

[Glassaholic]

Awesome. I'm seriously considering a used 5-20 Ultra Short in the same price range . 3k is my hard limit , so this ATACR is also an option

If the 5-20 has DT II+ turrets then it's worth it, if the older turret style... not so much (worth it) IMHO. ATACR 4-20 tunnels at 4x but picks up FOV fast and slightly outdoes the Schmidt by 20x. Schmidt at 5x is .2 feet within FOV of ATACR 4-20 at 4x

 

[5RWill]

I almost went for the ATACR 4-16x42, but I couldn't find one with the Mil-XT reticle that I wanted.

Called up the guys at NF, and they told me they didn't have an ETA on that model, but the 4-20x50 was replacing the 4-16x42 anyways.

So I just went full send and bought the 4-20.

As it may be, the 4-16x42 MIL-XT is back in stock at EuroOptic, just a couple of days after I placed my order.

That always happens to me. Oh well, hopefully I like the 4-20.

Wait they're discontinuing the 4-16?

 

[CSTactical]

11/25/22: Open box Nightforce 4-20x50 Mil-XT for $2,700.00!!! PM or call 916-670-1103x2 to grab it!

 

[Secant]

Wait they're discontinuing the 4-16?

I thought the 4-20x50 was replacing the 4-16x50 not the 4-16x42. It’d be so dumb for NF to discontinue the 42 model….so it’s probably true

 

[phlegm]

I thought the 4-20x50 was replacing the 4-16x50 not the 4-16x42. It’d be so dumb for NF to discontinue the 42 model….so it’s probably true

This has to be what they meant.

 

[txbass97]

From what I understood - and I could have understood incorrectly, don't take my word for it - when I called to inquire about the next batch of 4-16x42's in the Mil-XT reticle arriving back in stock, he said he didn't have an ETA. He did let me know the 4-16x50's were getting discontinued - maybe I got confused with the 4-20 replacing the 4-16x42.

Again I could have been wrong.

 

[txbass97]

Weight with lens caps -

Length without caps - 14 & 1/8"

 

[TacticalPlinker]

If the 5-20 has DT II+ turrets then it's worth it, if the older turret style... not so much (worth it) IMHO. ATACR 4-20 tunnels at 4x but picks up FOV fast and slightly outdoes the Schmidt by 20x. Schmidt at 5x is .2 feet within FOV of ATACR 4-20 at 4x

I look at the NF as a 5-20 based on that assessment.

 

[txbass97]

I look at the NF as a 5-20 based on that assessment.

I would have to agree, maybe even a 5.5-20. Tunneling is very obvious from 4-5x, and from 5-5.5x just a bit more.

 

[txbass97]

Does anyone with an ATACR 4-16x42 F1 care to chime in -

Is there any tunneling present on that scope?

I'm thinking about re-purposing this ATACR 4-20 to put on my Bergara B14 for long range shooting instead of my LMT MWS.

This scope was originally supposed to go on the LMT, but since the Bergara is lacking glass, I'm figuring hell why not get both and put the 4-20 on something more dedicated for long range.

 

[hafejd30]

I would have to agree, maybe even a 5.5-20. Tunneling is very obvious from 4-5x, and from 5-5.5x just a bit more.

This 100%

I’m a NF fan. But this is accurate based on my sample of 1

 

[txbass97]

Took my first Long Range Shooting class today with the ATACR 4-20. The tunneling at 4-5.5x was a non-issue for me. The closest steel target was at 370 yards, and I think I was dialed around 7-8x to make use of the reticle.

Glass clarity is fantastic. I was shooting a Bergara B-14 HMR Wilderness .308 with a 20" barrel, and made a few hits at 1070 yards. 20x magnification was plenty for that distance. The 1270 target behind it would have been easily doable as well.

Overall, I think the 4-20 is a great optic and I don't regret buying it one bit. I bought this scope as an optic I don't have to upgrade anytime soon, as I gain experience shooting long range. I'm sure the ZCO 4-20 knocks this thing out of the park, but for the price I paid for it, I'm happy saving $1500.

 

[Reload10]

Anyone know reticle thickness on the 4-20? NF only has the 4-16, 5-25, and 7-35 mil-xt published

 

[txbass97]

Anyone know reticle thickness on the 4-20? NF only has the 4-16, 5-25, and 7-35 mil-xt published

I don't know the dimensions, but I can eyeball the 4-16 and 4-20 here in a bit when I get back home

 

[carbonbased]

Anyone know reticle thickness on the 4-20? NF only has the 4-16, 5-25, and 7-35 mil-xt published

I had called them up a couple of months ago. This is what I found (not sure which reticle you want info on).

Mil-R

.036 mil ATACR 7-35


Mil-XT

	Main line thickness
4-16 ATACR	0.043 mil
2.5-20 NX8	0.041 mil
4-20 ATACR	0.040 mil
4-32 NX8	0.036 mil
5-25 ATACR	0.033 mil
7-35 ATACR	0.033 mi