Rifle Scopes Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

[Lowlight]

I managed to get my hands on a few of the Shot Show flyers from Nightforce although I suspect it isn't the complete list, it is a major change for the NXS line of scopes and something often talked about on SH.

<span style="font-weight: bold">10 Mils per revolution as well as 20 MOA in their new turrets. </span>

My understanding is, you can't even begin to think about ordering any of these <span style="font-weight: bold">until <span style="text-decoration: underline">May 2010</span> </span> so don't even try to call them on it until then. Still is a great change and welcome upgrade to the line.

I think we can see they are listening and moving forward.

A visit to the Nightforce booth at Shot is definitely in order...

They are also working with their new ballistic reticles which appear to be well down. I know they have been talking about these since last year and I think combined with the new turrets might be of a lot of interest to hunters and to those who want a hold over reticle without the clutter of something like the horus. as well without the extra horus cost.

 

[shadysmitty]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

Thanks for the info. I can't waite until May. I guess, I had better start planning on some O.T.

 

[glock24]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

Hmm . . . it appears they doubled the adjustments per turn by putting the click spacing closer together. I suppose, I guess.

IMO, it would of been nicer if they would have just enlarged the size of the knob. The space between clicks on my 5 mil per turn NF is one of my favorite things about the scope. Yeah, I know . . . bitch, bitch, bitch.

Maybe they did it that way so they could retro older scopes?

 

[rksimple]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

So they made a bunch of "velocity" reticles, but no other numbered reticles a la GenIIXR, Gap, or the EBR's from Vortex? Wow.

The knobs do seem pretty nice. I guess it all depends on how solid the close clicks are.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

I know they are working on a new Mil based reticle for the F1 series, I have spoken to them about it, as well as others respected in the field, so I believe that is going to be moving forward...

As for retrofitting older models, I have heard that word mentioned, but I can't say anything else.

I will see them next week, but from the field I have heard the spacing it better than the S&B in terms of comparison. So it's between the original NF turrets and what you would find on a PMII

 

[JasonB]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

Good change to the knobs, not sure how the velocity reticle will work out... good for killing things, not so good for comps i would think.

 

[blue_ridge]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

Here's the link for NF's velocity reticle calculator.

http://www.exbalapplications.com/NightForce/(S(0iep3w45xyoukb45s1k3fo45))/NfMainForm.aspx

 

[SuperSeal110]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

This will be nice. Excellent info.

 

[neo223]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

great idea.

 

[SavageStag]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

That would be great if they actually do retrofit the turrets.

 

[TiroFijo]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

Excellent! I just hope they keep the great "feel" of their current turrets, in spite of the smaller clicks. If not, please NF change to a larger knob, and update the illumination system too.

10 mils per turn is an <span style="font-weight: bold">excellent</span> idea! after all it is a <span style="font-style: italic">decimal</span> system. Second turn just add 10+1 etc., very easy and fast, and 20 mils (two turns) is more than enough for most shooting. I don't know why other makers don't use it.

 

[LukeUSMC]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

As soon as I can, I'm sending my NF off for the velocity reticle!!!!!!

 

[dar1246]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

This puts NF in another league. I like what is coming down the pipe line. Looking for 2 more scopes. Was going with S&Bs but might just wait to see what NF is coming out with.

 

[blue_ridge]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

What do you guys see as the pros/cons of the velocity reticle?

 

[livetohunt]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

Looks like they only offer the velocity reticle in two of there scopes the 2.5x10x24 and 2.5x10x32.Thats a bummer I would have picked one up if I could have gotten it in a 3.5x15x56

 

[dar1246]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

I purchase some Kenston turrets 2 years ago for a leupy. The made them for the cartridge I was shooting. With that they ask the average temp, altitude, vel., ect. Which will work great when shooting at the same location. But if shooting in different areas . Things will change on your dope. I no longer use that because I wanted to know the settings I was dialing.

Correct me if I'am wrong. The reticle is the same kind of thing but with reference points in the reticle. This way if shooting in a different enviroment. You have your reticle to make the corrections according to your dope.

I like reticle feature. I didn't like the horus because it was to busy. This looks like a good reticle choice.

 

[gugubica]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

Good on ya NF. You are getting closer to what I prefer in a scope.

This one one of my complaints about NF scopes.

Now if they would only:

Have a standard mil reticle with numbers.
Have a power ring instead of a power occular.
Have a field adjustable ilumination.
And, most importantly...a 5.5-22 FFP.

I think the most important will be covered soon, and the others are not deal breakers.

I was actually pretty set on an F1 when the higher mag version came out, the new changes are icing on the cake.

 

[alaska guide]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

I've been hoping they would come out with one out to 1k. Great look's like i'll be saving up for one of these.Be a great hunting scope.From shooting yotes/varmints way far out.To making clean kills on big game out to 500/600yds.

 

[ToddM]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

I do like the 10 mils per turn, as long as they keep the clicks solid. Of course I'd rather see a scope with .2 mil per click but I'm in a huge minority there.

The velocity reticule is interesting, but I see it as the same problem every ballistic reticule has. It's only good on one power because the scope is not FFP. I will give them credit for making 3 different types so as to try and match the caliber to the reticule, but again if you swap rifles or calibers or loads it's no longer as useful. It seems they've done a good job of fairly closely matching a wide range of calibers with the 3 they have, at least to 400 yards, 500 and 600 usually end up with higher error. I can only imagine that error is going to get even worse on the new versions that go out to 1000.

Just as a quick example I ran my .308 hunting load through their calculator which they recommend a LV reticule for, with a 200 yard zero. It's pretty close (certainly enough for hunting) at 100-200-300-400 but at 500 it's off 6" and at 600 about 8" I'm sure by 1000 it would be way off. If I wanted a 100 yard zero it gets worse. If I switch to FGMM 175's it's much better to 600. On my AR it's a very good match all the way to 600.

So it's a trade off, if you have a load setup that very closely matches their reticule, and you want something that's very fast and easy to use, and you only want to use the longer ranges on max power I can see it's advantages. However, you give up a lot of flexibility and accuracy when the match is not perfect or if you want to run different loads.

I see it as ideal for any gun that you can tailor the load or caliber for to get very close to one of the velocity reticules that has to be able to make very quick shots at various yardage.

As for the new 0-1000, that's busy enough that I'd just rather have the plain old MLR 1/2 mil hash type reticule and know the hold overs in mils. As much error as there is in certain cases at 500/600 with their current ballistic reticules I can't see 700-1000 being very useful unless you just happen to have a perfect matching caliber/load. It's also much less flexible to deal with changing environments. However, if you did have that perfect matching load, and your environment did not change a lot for your use I can see it being a very nice option.

Now if NF were to build custom reticules to your drop data, that would be wicked. Similar to their new 0-1000 yard but based on customer drop data for a fee.

 

[dar1246]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

I do believe the reticle vs turrents. The reticle if shooting in different enviroments. You can make the corrections on your turrent to adjust for the environment and will make the holdovers close to the POA. The turrents you cannot. With this feature it would be a good addition. Different calibers would be another topic.

 

[ChadTRG42]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

Wow! I love the 20 MOA turrets! This solves one of my 2 main complaints. The other is 1 MOA hash marks on the horizontal on the NP-R1 reticles.

 

[dar1246]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

I would agree with ChadTRG42 on the 1 moa hashmarks.

 

[rmfield]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

I also agree with ChadTRG42 on both counts. Nightforce just doesn't get the importance of 1 MOA windage hashmarks. 20 MOA per revolution knobs is definately an improvement, however.

Edit: Regarding ballistic reticles, I have little use for them for shooting over 5-600 yards. Beyond that, the environmental influences are too significant for "fixed" holdovers.

 

[cjgemm]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

imagine if they would have made the MOA turrets 1/2 MOA. 40 MOA 1 turn.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cjgemm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">imagine if they would have made the MOA turrets 1/2 MOA. 40 MOA 1 turn.</div></div>

I have two NF scopes with 1 MOA adjustments, about 60 MOA per turn.

But that is mil only

 

[TimResin]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

Over on sniper central http://www.snipercentral.com/nxs5522.phtml Mel said in his review that they were going to come out with 40Moa turrets with 1 MOA per click.

 

[Every Day Gun Guy]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TiroFijo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Excellent! I just hope they keep the great "feel" of their current turrets, in spite of the smaller clicks. If not, please NF change to a larger knob, and update the illumination system too.

10 mils per turn is an <span style="font-weight: bold">excellent</span> idea! after all it is a <span style="font-style: italic">decimal</span> system. Second turn just add 10+1 etc., very easy and fast, and 20 mils (two turns) is more than enough for most shooting. <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">I don't know why other makers don't use it.</span></span> </div></div>

US Optics uses it if I'm not mistaken. Larger knob(EREK) and 1/10MIL

 

[CSTactical]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

We are really looking forward to seeing them and getting them in stock.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

Ya, No disrespect to Mel, but I have the scopes and have had them for more than a year... they have 60 MOA per turn, and are 1 MOA.

and the flyer does say, .25 MOA with 20 MOA per turn.

 

[Austan]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

LL, can you give a brief explanation of the numbers on that turret?


Edit: I think I answered my own question. The tall lines indicated yards/meters. It seems the 300 yd/m indicator should be one more to the left, that would have helped me get it quicker.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

It's a BDC for a 300 WM, which I since changed out to a straight MOA based turret.

The lower number is the MOA the upper is Meters

 

[Buckoman]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

How do you rangefind with that reticle?

 

[glock24]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Master_Blaster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How do you rangefind with that reticle? </div></div>

You don't. It is a straight BDC reticle, hence the lack-luster reception.

 

[TiroFijo]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nightmel</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TiroFijo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Excellent! I just hope they keep the great "feel" of their current turrets, in spite of the smaller clicks. If not, please NF change to a larger knob, and update the illumination system too.

10 mils per turn is an <span style="font-weight: bold">excellent</span> idea! after all it is a <span style="font-style: italic">decimal</span> system. Second turn just add 10+1 etc., very easy and fast, and 20 mils (two turns) is more than enough for most shooting. <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">I don't know why other makers don't use it.</span></span> </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">US Optics uses it if I'm not mistaken. Larger knob(EREK) and 1/10MIL </span></div></div>

USO EREK knob has 90 clicks per revolution... not 100

 

[rksimple]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow! I love the 20 MOA turrets! This solves one of my 2 main complaints. The other is 1 MOA hash marks on the horizontal on the NP-R1 reticles. </div></div>

^^This. And number the damn things...both mil and moa. Seems they're a little slow on the uptake...

 

[Lindy]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

I think 2 MOA hashmarks would be better on the horizontal. That <span style="font-style: italic">roughly</span> corresponds to 0.5 mil hashmarks, which I've always found adequate. One MOA would be too many for rapid use, IMO.

However, it's unlikely that I will ever own one, so I've no dog in that fight.

 

[Rassmussen]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

My wish would be MRAD models of the 8-32 and 12-42 models. Any word on when they will be available?

-R

 

[vman]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

I think its great that NF dont agree that a small amount of reticles would cover most cartridges... keen to see how their calculator tests out in the real world. It would be a real winner for long range varminters.

 

[Grump]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

I think this one is another "close but no cigar" move.

Having used/borrowed a Vortex Viper with their version of a holdover reticle, I can honestly report my own real-world preference for having a mil-dot available SOMEWHERE in the field of view. Vortex gives you a whopping 2.0 mils on either side of the crosshair.

Why not the standard 5?

Yeah, it's SFP, which I *can* use, and I really, really like a crosshair that gets "thinner" on the target as I zoom up in magnification. But I'm on a FFP scope now and love it so far.

All Nightforce had to do with this one was put a mil-dot on the horizontal crosshair.

I could even live with an extra piece of glass for the etched reticle on the FFP, for a non-crosshair mil-dot ranging area.

Are the horizontal tics on those range settings something like a 10 MPH crosswind hold? If so, great idea, but THAT and the holdovers really, really should be put FFP. Interrupt the crosshairs just shy of the intersections and you can SEE the tiniest target object instead of covering it with black lines.

Just my cranky preferences.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

Grump, my point exactly. Without mil-dots or any other tics on horizontal crosshair this new reticle looks ugly to me.

Also, I don't think I really want a reticle "hard-coded" to one particular caliber and cartridge/bullet weight. I'd much rather compute.

 

[Parallax]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

That new reticle is very Zeiss-like ... the Zeiss Rapid-Z ballistic reticle to be exact.

 

[B.Bates]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

any news on any new nightforce optics?

is there a 22x FFP or is it a new scope all together???

 

[crosshairs803]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ToddM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now if NF were to build custom reticules to your drop data, that would be wicked. Similar to their new 0-1000 yard but based on customer drop data for a fee. </div></div>

I agree ToddM. Custom drop data would be phenomenal.

Also, (maybe someone else mentioned this) the reticule loses some functionality without a means of measurement. In my experience, rangefinders don't always do the deed.

I had ten minutes at work today and used paint to modify their velocity reticule I hope the idea makes it's way to NF before they release in May. Maybe it can be called "Velocity-T(tactical)" or maybe " Velocity-RF (Range Finder)". We'll see. I think it is low profile enough that it wouldnt make it too 'Horus-ish". Oh yeah and number the lines for the measurement scale...Please! On my NPR-1, I find my self recounting lines too much. I would def pay for something like this below.

What do you all think?

 

[Lindy]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

Scopes with velocity-specific reticles will have little resale value except to someone shooting the same cartridge at the same muzzle velocity.

I prefer scopes which can be used on any rifle with any load.

 

[strick9]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

I have tried the bdc reticles mostly the swaro tds and for just pot shottn their ok but clicks is clicks and data is mo betta. Though Bohem was punchn with the rapid z at 4oo.

 

[Graham]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

'Velocity' reticles? Are they serious?!!

 

[dmgreene]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

What about the higher power FFP that a few people were hinting about? I guess it is a no go?

 

[*Nine]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

Wow, I was 100% ready to call NF tomorrow to get a RMA to swap my .25 MOA turrets on my NXS to MIL, but if they're gonna offer a 10 MIL per rotation turret, I'll wait for that.

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg264</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What about the higher power FFP that a few people were hinting about? I guess it is a no go? </div></div>
No, there wasn't one. I was underwhelmed by the NF improvements, but they are in the right direction.

 

[Matt in Virginia]

Re: Nightforce Shot Show Flyers *Leaked*

imho,
I would agree. For the love of God have they not been paying attention? Who wants multiple "velocity" reticles set to a specific cartridge or range of cartridges when most everyone knows that mil/mil is the only way to fly. Larger turret, locking lever if you want to look cool, a better Mil based Reticle and don't tack on another $500. I would buy one if they could make their original Mil-Dot with half-mil hash marks. That reticle is different enough from the Gen II that one would hope they would not go for patent infringement. The Klein predated the Gen II and it's basically the same deal...

No improvement in illumination technology, no improvement in the rheostat, glass that is not up to Schmidt & Bender, one FFP magnification range, and a price that is approaching striking distance of Schmidt Bender. Yeah I can see they've been hard at work...

IMHO,
Nightforce either needs to decide to compete with the tier 1 companies OR they need to get comfortable in their current tier 2 manufacturer position and go for the $1500 market. fwiw & imho

Regards, Matt Garrett
757-581-6270