Objective discussion about savage vs rem 700 actions?

Winny94

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  • Nov 19, 2013
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    I'm looking into delving into (semi) precision shooting and trying to figure out what my first gun should be. I'm torn between the remington 700 AAC-sd and a savage hog hunter.

    Everytime I try to search for the pros/cons of each action, I get pulled into an arguing match between "fanboys" of each. Is it possible to find objective opinions details the pros and cons of each for someone new like me?

    Thanks for any help
     
    Here's my objective two cents. DISCLAIMER: I own 4 centerfire Savages, 1 centerfire 700, briefly owned a 700 Tactical 16.5" 308 last summer.

    The 700 bolt "feels" better; the bolt lift requires less effort and the bolt throw is smoother. The 700 also ejects brass like a boss. The 700 BDL is mag length limited to something like 2.82", if I recall correctly. 700 308s tend to have very long throats. The aftermarket for 700s is better, specifically in terms of trigger selection and aftermarket stocks/chassis/DBM systems.

    A Savage action has a heavier, clunkier bolt throw due to the geometry of the cocking mechanism. The oversized bolt handle of the Hog Hunter makes the effort easier, and it gets better after you run the bolt a thousand (yeah, a thousand) or so times. Ejection often leaves something to be desired, somewhere between slightly weak and piss poor. SharpShooterSupply makes a kit for $8 that gets it up to stock Remington level. The centerfeed Savage magazine (be it in blind mag form like the Hog Hunter, or as a DBM) allows up to 3.00" COAL. Savage 308s tend to have shorter throats, with 175s hitting the lands pretty much at factory OALs.

    The Savage action allows you to swap bolt heads and barrels in your own home, with minimal tooling, fairly quickly. This is an intangible of the Savage action, and IMO the primary reason to run one vs. a Remington - you can go from a 223 to a 338 Edge in a matter of minutes should you so choose. You can also easily swap bolt handles yourself with a Savage.

    Both actions are capable of very good accuracy. A 700 build will have better residual value at resale than a Savage build of identical specifications.

    700s are probably a bit more reliable for field work due to better extraction and ejection - does not necessarily mean Savages are not reliable, however.

    A Rem-Age conversion (700 action with a Savage-type barrel nut system) is the very best of both worlds, IMO.

    I personally choose Savage to save money, both upfront and in smith fees when I decide I want to do something different. I was able to build a 20" threaded 260 in a McMillan A5 stock with CDI DBM using a 10FP action for about the same money as a new 700 5R in 308. I would surmise a good smith could provide a trued/chambered 700 barreled action with greater mechanical accuracy capability than a Savage barreled action with a prefit barrel, but I'd also say Savages are very accurate and few people could probably shoot the difference between the two.
     
    Addendum:

    The last few years, Savage hasn't been able to leave its actions the hell alone. In what I can only believe is an attempt to de-uglify them, they've started switching to smooth barrel nuts (PITA to get off and reuse) and the bottom bolt release. As such, the aftermarket (which had started to catch up a bit to Remingtons) has tapered off a bit again.

    I have a new bottom bolt release rifle, and its really not a huge deal...but its something else one has to consider.

    I generally prefer "top" or "side" bolt release actions, which the Hog Hunter is.
     
    From a consumer/shooter perspective (not blueprinting, but buy and shoot), I purchased two Remington 700's both in 308W. Both were SPS versions and both were rather gritty on bolt manipulation. Given some time, they both broke in well; however the one concern/complaint I have is both rifles will close on a no-go guage. They pass the Field guage, but that is kind of shitty for a factory rifle. Although this is chambering, not the action, it can lead to poor grouping with factory ammo, or diminished case life if one does not use a bump guage.

    I do not have a savage in 308, so I can not compare, but in hind site I would have brought a guage with me to the LGS, or just went custom from the get.

    The rifles shoot decently, but I am not all that happy with the QC and worn reamers at Remington.

    Then again, if you look at some of their new lines, Remington is embracing the barrel nut technology to properly set headspace (but not in the 700).

    In short, the Remingtons can be great shooters, but they are hit and miss, if possible bring a no-go guage with you.
     
    i chose Savage because they met my need at the time for learning about long range/precision shooting, without going full custom. for someone new to shooting or on a budget, i think this is the best way to go.

    there are now many stocks, DBM and other parts available for Savage.

    the factory barrels are quite good, in my experience. they're not as slick as custom barrels and they will copper foul in the beginning, but they are very good. even better with handloads.

    i have several full custom guns for other disciplines, but the Savages still meet my needs for LR/precision stuff. plus, i thoroughly enjoy beating my buddy with his $8k custom rig with a stock Savage barreled action and trigger.
     
    I have a rem sps varmint in .243 which i will agree with above has a smother bolt throw sitting in a b&c stock. I also have an old 111 savage with a rifle basics trigger,b&c stock and a shilen match grade barrel in 6.5x284 that will cycle nearly as well and is way more accurate. I like the savage for the fact i can go full custom in my barn with no smith, but i dont think you will be sorry either direction you go.

    +1 on the disappointed about the lack of rem vs. Savage war. I had no intention of posting just some chuckles lol.
     
    Objectively - who wins?

    Factory:
    Action bolts - Remington (Savage keeps moving the spacing - and still can't get it right)
    Trigger - Savage (Accutrigger is simple and safe)
    Bolt handle - Savage (Savage is removable, Remington breaks)
    Firing pin - Savage (adjustable from factory)
    Bolt head - Savage (replaceable and free floating)
    Ejector - Remington
    Extractor -draw
    Lock time - Savage
    Bolt lift - Remington
    Recoil lug - Savage (locating tab makes everything aligned)
    Barrel quality - Savage
    Cost - Savage (AAC-SD is $200+ more than Hog Hunter)

    Aftermarket:
    Stock/chassis selection - Remington
    Trigger - Remington
    DBM - Remington
    Blueprinting - draw
    Barrel - draw
    Cost of build - Savage
     
    Objectively - who wins?

    Factory:
    Action bolts - Remington (Savage keeps moving the spacing - and still can't get it right)
    Trigger - Savage (Accutrigger is simple and safe)
    Bolt handle - Savage (Savage is removable, Remington breaks)
    Firing pin - Savage (adjustable from factory)
    Bolt head - Savage (replaceable and free floating)
    Ejector - Remington
    Extractor -draw
    Lock time - Savage
    Bolt lift - Remington
    Recoil lug - Savage (locating tab makes everything aligned)
    Barrel quality - Savage
    Cost - Savage (AAC-SD is $200+ more than Hog Hunter)

    Aftermarket:
    Stock/chassis selection - Remington
    Trigger - Remington
    DBM - Remington
    Blueprinting - draw
    Barrel - draw
    Cost of build - Savage


    +1^^^^^^
     
    Everytime I try to search for the pros/cons of each action, I get pulled into an arguing match between "fanboys" of each. Is it possible to find objective opinions details the pros and cons of each for someone new like me?


    You're going to have a lot of that.

    The Remington is a better action from front to back. The only possible advantages to the savage are the bolt handle is a bit stronger, the user interchangeable barrel and possibly the floating bolt but that's debatable. Other than that the Remington does it better. There's a reason you see all these Remington based custom actions vs Savage. The Savages also have two features which downright suck and I cannot stand, one being the accutrigger which is the most failure prone factory trigger I've experienced, and the trigger gurd assembly. They're cheap, plastic, and the mags suck. The Remington's trigger and BDL bottom metal is actually serviceable.

    They both have some QC issues, plenty of lemons coming out of each company, close enou I'd say it's a draw. Remington gets the nod for customer service, if you get a bad one, it WILL get fixed. Myself and two other people I have sent savages back with poor accuracy and only one they did anything about. On my LRH 7mm and a friends 338 they told us were acceptable accuracy at 5MOA.... Lots of remy's have gone back in that I have personally seen and they came back fixed the first time.
     
    The Remington is a better action from front to back.
    How?

    The only possible advantages to the savage are the bolt handle is a bit stronger
    That's an understatement - breaks reported weekly vs never been broke.

    , the user interchangeable barrel and possibly the floating bolt but that's debatable.
    Both are facts. The benefits might be debatable - but the presence of the features isn't.

    Other than that the Remington does it better.
    Did the record get stuck? How is it better?

    There's a reason you see all these Remington based custom actions vs Savage.
    And the reason is ..... ? Do we see a pattern yet?

    The Savages also have two features which downright suck and I cannot stand, one being the accutrigger which is the most failure prone factory trigger I've experienced
    When you say failure prone - if you mean killing your kid or blowing the bolt out on safety - I have to say Remington got it covered. Improperly adjusted Accutrigger will not set - but it will NOT fire either.

    , and the trigger gurd assembly. They're cheap, plastic, and the mags suck.
    Both Remington and Savage offer models with plastic and metal guards - get your facts straight.



    Is this better?
     
    I've gotten in enough battle of wits with unarmed people lately. There's no convincing an idiot, and no use arguing with one.

    Sometimes you need to take a hint - maybe it's not "everyone else" who's an idiot.
    Good luck with the sale of the Remmy - let me guess new fan-club? Can I guess again - Tikka? That seems to be the latest buzzword for the cool kids...
     
    Sometimes you need to take a hint - maybe it's not "everyone else" who's an idiot.
    Good luck with the sale of the Remmy - let me guess new fan-club? Can I guess again - Tikka? That seems to be the latest buzzword for the cool kids...


    hey hey, don't link tikka to the remmy fanboys. Had a 695 and it was a great rifle just didn't have a use for a 25-06.
     
    My actual experience. New Remington 700 PSS .223. Spent 3-4 months on load development. Tried almost every conceivable combination of components. Best I could get out of it was 1 1/4 - 1 1/2" groups. Sold it at a loss. Bought a new Savage 223. Went through load development again. Boring 1/4" groups..... Not to hard to shoot groups in the 1's. No reason to spend money on Remingtons and take a change it may or may not shoot. Two friends bought Savages in 6mm and .223. Both shoot in the 1's and routinely in the 2's.
     
    I own both but don't really shoot em any more. IF you just want a range rifle then there is nothing wrong with the savage. They seem to shoot great and mine is extremely accurate. If you will be wanting to upgrade things later on I would go with the Remington. If you will probably need to depend on it then I say rem for sure. A good friend of mine said it best " You wont find a savage that wont shoot good, but you wont find a savage that wont break" I've seen savages go down several times with remmys running strong beside it. I'm deff not a fan boy as I really don't shoot either. Yes I have a few customs built on trued rem actions but I mainly stick with my customs. If starting off then both are light years ahead of having nothing. Whatever your getting, just get some good ammo and practice hard. Both will show you what matters in LR shooting. Your knowledge will carry on to whatever you get later.

    Good luck!!
     
    I'm a die hard Savage fan. Mainly due to cost and ease of barrel swaps at home. They do have a stiff bolt, but a little polishing and you can smooth things up a little. I don't like the newer mods, just like the older actions. My old 110 is getting a Select Shilen tomorrow.

    Throats burned out on my 204, so when that barrel gets here, pull out my head space gauge and 5 min its ready for load development.

    Don't get me wrong, Rem makes damn good actions! Little more pricey, looks better too and bolt runs smoother. So, low budget, Savage...got more to spend...Rem all the way.


    Oh....forgot....GO SEAHAWKS!!! Record point lead on the way??? :)
     
    Objectively speaking...

    The receiver itself is a draw, maybe slight advantage to Savage, because it's round all the way back, making bases easier to manufacture to fit nicely.

    Savage wins for serviceability, obviously.

    I like the accutrigger better than an Xmark out of the box, but once you start talking aftermarket alternatives, the Remington is far, far better. Accutrigger is a bandaid to a piss poor trigger design.

    You won't break a savage bolt handle. Wish I could say the same for Remington.

    Savage has 3 position safety, on the tang. Maybe thats better? Neither Savage or Remington safeties are even CLOSE to as good as a Winny. Take your pick, I guess.

    Savage bolt runs really clunky, Remington feels much more refined.

    Both have weak/lame primary extraction but its more common for out of the box Savages to have failures to extract.

    Savage extractor itself is better than Remingtons thing.

    I haven't yet seen a Savage with scope base holes drilled out-of-line. Wish I could say the same for Remington.

    Savage has been weird about changing designs, a real pain to modify them because of this.

    Savage resale sucks.
     
    A close friend builds 1000 yard rifles, beanpole rifles, etc. He has had more than a few NIB Remington's brought to him for custom builds. Three out of four new Remington's were so out of square and the barrel threads were so off center to the action he would have ruined them trying to make them workable. He gave them back to the owners untouched. Remington QC is questionable and risky. IMHO.
     
    availability of stocks and other parts - also the target action is only short
    Stocks available for savage rifles;
    McMillan
    McCree
    Manners
    XLR
    Bell & Carlson
    HS Precision
    JP ent
    Stockade
    Choate
    These are just off the top of my pointed skull.

    Everything but Jewell for triggers.
    Plus A boat load of "other parts" are available for you to customize the rifle to your liking, yourself.
    So I'd say the aftermarket alternatives comparison is a draw too.
     
    shoots100 said:
    So I'd say the aftermarket alternatives comparison is a draw too.

    Its really not. Sure you can get a custom stock, but off-the-shelf options are sorely lacking (specifically, no B&C Medalists for varmint barreled long action Savages and only the A2 Medalist for short actions).
     
    I need to get over my aesthetic displeasement of savage and get one. They're fugly to my eyes but i hear nothing but good things and given the price i need to pick one up. Especially if i can get a 1/2 MOA truck gun that i wouldn't be too worried about if it got stolen. Though everytime i start a "budget" project it ends up turning into a full blown rifle i wouldn't want to lose.

    Never owned a savage grew up on remingtons and i really like them. Though i will testify to budget remingtons. Recently fondled a 700 AAC and the gritty feeling of the matte finish on the action would make me return it. I know it will wear but damn it feels like sand in the action. I own a 5R and the jewelled bolt is pretty damn smooth, the lugs seem to be done well on my particular bolt as well, caming is effortless and smooth. I've had luck though my 5R is a tack driver, seriously with handloads it is putting up less than 1/2 MOA groups consistently. And has done so with every bullet i've tried so far, which has been 155gr scenars, 168gr SMKs, 175gr BT LRs, and now 178gr BTHP. That said the rifle is 1000$.

    I think BoilerUP covered it very well and the ability to interchange barrels and bolt faces is awesome, from a non-biased standpoint i think it would be difficult.
     
    Me and a few friends were discussing this today. Ive had a full blown decked out Savage, still have a nice short barrel Remington, and a full blown custom on a Defiance Deviant action. The only thing that sucked about the Savage was the resale value. They are just not worth what an equal Remmy would be. There are plenty of top notch parta to build a sweet Savage, as long as your prepared to take a loss when you sell or keep it forever. I started with Savage and would do it again because it lets you get in the game for cheap and build it up yourself as funds allow. Just my .02
     
    I have both, a remmy 5r .308 and a savage 10 6.5 creedmoor. To be honest, I like them both. They both have positives and negatives. I like the 700 because of the after market support. To be honest, the only thing original on my remmy is the action, and it has been trued. My savage is stock. I use it for hunting, and it shoots fine. I really wish that savage would slow down on all of their "changes" though. Trying to find a new stock is frustrating. Savage could get a little more streamlined with their stuff. If we were all real honest, there are a lot of really good rifle companies out there. Most come from the factory sub moa. Try to get sub moa out of your grandfather's rifle. Probably ain't gonna happen.
     
    I had a short infatuation with savages.

    They're cheap and you can build them yourself and they shoot!

    I had more failures to fees and extract with it than any rem I've had.

    A big part of that was due to the sloppy fit of the savage bolt.
     
    Stocks available for savage rifles;
    McMillan
    McCree
    Manners
    XLR
    Bell & Carlson
    HS Precision
    JP ent
    Stockade
    Choate
    These are just off the top of my pointed skull.

    Everything but Jewell for triggers.
    Plus A boat load of "other parts" are available for you to customize the rifle to your liking, yourself.
    So I'd say the aftermarket alternatives comparison is a draw too.

    did you actually read what I was responding to?

    the comment is about savage long action, price competitive parts (other than prefit barrels) will likely never be what I want - my compromise for an in the works 30-06 is a remage build

    you have to be damn careful what is spent on a savage build because the resale is shit - the flip side is that if you can find what you want used in a savage - long or short - it can typically be had at a bargain price
     
    Its really not. Sure you can get a custom stock, but off-the-shelf options are sorely lacking (specifically, no B&C Medalists for varmint barreled long action Savages and only the A2 Medalist for short actions).

    exactly, B+C is the shape I like - almost always in stock at redhawk - price is right - quick reasonable shipping
     
    One thing I like about the savage is the firing pin travel, bolt lift tension, and firing pin spring tension are all adjustable. I'm not sure but I don't think the 700 has that.
     
    I've got a savage 10fcp and a handful of Rem700's. I got lucky out of the box w/the savage as it shoots sub moa with factory match rounds. Hand loads even better. I like the feel of the Rem's much better. The savage has a clunky hallow feel where the rem feels like butter. Aftermarket support the Rem is golden, savage is better now than it was a few years ago, but still lacking. If you're on a tight budget I suggest Savage. The $ you save you can put towards glass. If budget is not as much of an issue. Get a Rem. the couple extra bucks at start up you will recoup at resale and most likely sell faster. I wouldn't rule out buying used either. Lots of very nice sticks go up for sale daily most of the time for a lot less than what's into them.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    My actual experience. New Remington 700 PSS .223. Spent 3-4 months on load development. Tried almost every conceivable combination of components. Best I could get out of it was 1 1/4 - 1 1/2" groups. Sold it at a loss. Bought a new Savage 223. Went through load development again. Boring 1/4" groups..... Not to hard to shoot groups in the 1's. No reason to spend money on Remingtons and take a change it may or may not shoot. Two friends bought Savages in 6mm and .223. Both shoot in the 1's and routinely in the 2's.

    With .1" groups, I must be doing something wrong. My GAP won't even do that with boring regularity.
     
    My actual experience. New Remington 700 PSS .223. Spent 3-4 months on load development. Tried almost every conceivable combination of components. Best I could get out of it was 1 1/4 - 1 1/2" groups. Sold it at a loss. Bought a new Savage 223. Went through load development again. Boring 1/4" groups..... Not to hard to shoot groups in the 1's. No reason to spend money on Remingtons and take a change it may or may not shoot. Two friends bought Savages in 6mm and .223. Both shoot in the 1's and routinely in the 2's.

    I'm not far from you, I'd love to see a factory rifle that shoots .1moa groups regularly...

    A close friend builds 1000 yard rifles, beanpole rifles, etc. He has had more than a few NIB Remington's brought to him for custom builds. Three out of four new Remington's were so out of square and the barrel threads were so off center to the action he would have ruined them trying to make them workable. He gave them back to the owners untouched. Remington QC is questionable and risky. IMHO.

    That's odd because I've had two well regarded gunsmiths tell me that the new actions Remington is making are so square they can't make them any better. They lap the lugs, sometimes chase the threads if they need it and install a barrel.

    I don't doubt though that they put out a few bad apples but for one person to experience "more than a few" when other smiths that are doing volumes more work say otherwise sounds like made up BS. Just who is this backyard bubba gunsmith?

    Either way, bad product for bad product, at least Remington fixed mine. Savage didn't.
     
    Examples

    With .1" groups, I must be doing something wrong. My GAP won't even do that with boring regularity.

    I really don't have any reason to BS anyone. Here are a couple of examples with a range of bullets.
    Sav.jpg
    Sav1.jpg
    Sav2.jpg
     
    With .1" groups, I must be doing something wrong. My GAP won't even do that with boring regularity.

    My only experience with a GAP is one owned by a kid at my local range. He was doing load development with 175 smk's and his largest groups were clover leafs. About half of his groups being in the .1's. This was with an Harris bipod on a concrete bench. It was the sickest thing I've ever seen.
     
    Your bad Savages were rimfires, correct?

    I was referring to the LRH 7mm that shot 5moa and savage told me the accuracy was acceptable. An a friends 338 that shot about the same and they said the same thing. I did have a few 17HMR's that wouldn't shoot acceptable to me and not what others were claiming (why I kept buying them) and savage said the same thing but I could possibly see why they think 2-3moa is acceptable with a rimfire. 5 MOA however is not acceptable for a "long range hunter" or for your flagship long range 338 lapua.
     
    I remember you previously mentioning the rimfires...didn't remember seeing you discuss a LRH or 338.

    But yeah, 5MOA is pretty awful. Did they not want the rifle back to examine it...or if they did they said 5MOA was okay?!?