Observing Trace Beyond 1000yds?

[Bigwheels]

I was thinking the other day about observing trace past 1000 yds, & have some ?'s.
Does trace disappear once the bullet goes subsonic?
Could you see it at say 1500+ yds. What magnification would you need?
Next weekend I hope to see for myself as I'm going to shoot to 2K again with my 300WM.
That begs another ? What magnification would I want to use for the best results. I have a 20-60X spotter, so should I leave it on 20X for more field of view, or crank it up to see the target more clearly?
Thanks.

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: Observing Trace Beyond 1000yds?

Better have one hell of a good eye for that. Lower power would let you "catch" the trace and predict its route and be able to see its very small trace past 1,000 yards. If you know for sure the trace and see its pattern you could then zoom a little more for the trace further down range.

 

[ScottyS]

Re: Observing Trace Beyond 1000yds?

20x or so is fine, the most difficult thing about it is the fact that the bullet is changing elevation so fast. If you try to use magnification that is too high, with too narrow a field of view, you may not see it as you will not be able to pick up the bullet initially.

Of course air conditions play a larger role, with more distance (and conditions) that the light needs to travel through. So, some days you may pick it up, and some days not.

My .308 video at 1500yds shot at 20x magnification picked it up, but unfortunately the quality after uploading was degraded. On the full-res video you can see it.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: Observing Trace Beyond 1000yds?

betcha a counter sniper scope would pick it up

 

[desertHK]

Re: Observing Trace Beyond 1000yds?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">betcha a counter sniper scope would pick it up </div></div>

you mean the NC Star scopes right? Not familiar with Counter sniper scope, but I am sure the the NC Star will... LOL

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: Observing Trace Beyond 1000yds?

......need another keyboard now

 

[Arch]

Re: Observing Trace Beyond 1000yds?

BW. No. What temperature average in daytime?

 

[Bigwheels]

Re: Observing Trace Beyond 1000yds?

The conditions @ the range will be aprox.
45*
28.10" hg
605 humidity.
Overcast @ mid day.
The bullet wil go subsonic at aprox. 1450yds.

 

[Short-bus]

Re: Observing Trace Beyond 1000yds?

It'll be easier to spot the trace on a sunny day than a cloudy day, although you may still see it just fine on a cloudy day.

Once the bullet goes subsonic, it won't make any signature of trace, however, by then it's so far away you have most likely lost sight of the trace anyhow.

The last couple times i've been out with my .308, myself, and my shooting buddy, have been able to observe the trace almost all the way to the target. Like another poster said, you observe it long enough to extrapolate a predicted hit (or miss) location. Sometimes when the conditions were right we could observe all the way to the target.

We usually set the spotters up around 40x for the 700 and 800 yard targets, above that the mirage was getting a little hairy, but being as how the ground is frozen now, I think that mirage would be of little concern through the remainder of the winter, and we could crank it up to 60x.

Branden

 

[Tyler Kemp]

Re: Observing Trace Beyond 1000yds?

It's not nearly as big as a supersonic round, but subsonic .22 LR rounds do make a trace. So I think a subsonic rifle round would as well.

 

[SScott]

Re: Observing Trace Beyond 1000yds?

SS

 

[Bigwheels]

Re: Observing Trace Beyond 1000yds?

Well, tomorrow is the day. I'm going out for some 2K shots with another member. The weather is going to be better than I originally anticipated. I'll let you know what I could see.

 

[Bigwheels]

Re: Observing Trace Beyond 1000yds?

Had almost perfect weather for shooting... Except for the pea soup FOG!!! Never got a chance to see past 700 yds, let alone 2K. Maybe next time.

 

[marduk185]

Re: Observing Trace Beyond 1000yds?

i see trace with no spotting scope on subsonic 45 auto rounds fired to 100 yards well enough to hit shotgun hulls pretty regular

 

[hifly78]

Re: Observing Trace Beyond 1000yds?

I agree. Trace can be seen with a subsonic 22lr. I wonder if it has something with humidity. Due to the pressure changes around the bullet maybe we are seeing condensation vapor with the subsonic rounds on those high humidity days.

Just a thought

 

[Bigwheels]

Re: Observing Trace Beyond 1000yds?

Last week I was spotting for a member with a 375 C-T, & easily spotted trace @ 1100 yds. I had no problem seeing it on 20X. Could I see it with my 300WM @ that distance? I don't know. Hopefully he'll be up my way for some shots @ 2000yds, & I'll find out if I can see it then.

 

[Chiller]

Re: Observing Trace Beyond 1000yds?

My understanding is that is part of how Rob Furlong made his shot...(2430 m).......

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Observing Trace Beyond 1000yds?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My understanding is that is part of how Rob Furlong made his shot...(2430 m)....... </div></div>


partially, he also watched the splash of the round and held to hit the guy in the back and if i remember right the 50 cal round penetrated a ruck that the guy was wearing and that was the end of that fellas story

 

[Chiller]

Re: Observing Trace Beyond 1000yds?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My understanding is that is part of how Rob Furlong made his shot...(2430 m)....... </div></div>


partially, he also watched the splash of the round and held to hit the guy in the back and if i remember right the 50 cal round penetrated a ruck that the guy was wearing and that was the end of that fellas story </div></div>

That was the other part...all this being done WITHOUT the Hubble mounted to he rifle...

 

[TOPO-sniper]

Re: Observing Trace Beyond 1000yds?

Yeah, make sure you look at the bullet drop you are working with at the range you are shooting before you go. I've spotted many times at 1k, but was surprised at how much more I had to zoom out on the spotter when shooting 1650m.

 

[ewoaf]

Re: Observing Trace Beyond 1000yds?

i've watched my partners trace out to 1500y. At these distances, depending on the cartridge, you will notice the round almost coming straight down. Crank the magnification to about 12-18, back off the focus a touch, and put the target in the bottom of the FOV.
Again, it depends on the conditions..I'm ok with a little bit of mirage, but trace will get lost in heavy mirage. Sometimes you see it, sometimes you don't. It can be frustrating, but practice helps.

 

[McCrazy]

Re: Observing Trace Beyond 1000yds?

You may already know this but it helps to back of the focus to a couple hundred yards in front of the target. This way you have the maximum opportunity to see the trace in focus and it wll be going out of focus as it enters the target. If you focus solely on the target, you may not be able to discern the trace with enough time to read it.

HTH

 

[flims]

Re: Observing Trace Beyond 1000yds?

with the 7.5x55 which performs like a 308win, I could not see the trace past 800 ish it also depends on the background. if shooting against a mountain face the trace seems easier to observe. i dont use more than 20x. on the other hand with 338 and the 50steyr, it was much easier spotting trace,it displaces a larger volume of air and yet beyond certain distances I could not spot trace and I can only correct because the bullet hits dirt and blows 2 feet of dust. beyond 1200m i prefer to have two spotters especially when there is vegetation around the target and missing is easier.

in this video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcenqaXOF5M&feature=related
they recreated quite accurately what happens when a bullet is in flight and how winds effect the trajectory however i cannot understand how experienced guys like those would use ball ammo at such distances when probably army personnel have access to Raufoss rounds. Moreover I cannot see how ball ammo would be of any use at those ranges seen the large ES usually associated with such ammo. beyong 1250m we dont usually shoot ball through our 50steyr, we either stick to match ammo or tracer rounds.

One more thing, whats the magnification on that range finder? we usually use a leupold Tactical TMR at around 20x and a Swaro vski at about 40x just to get a better close up. im surprised a low mag range finder can be really useful at those ranges

 

[jwoolf]

Re: Observing Trace Beyond 1000yds?

Um, when I was a kid we didn't call it trace, we called it a vapor trail. It's actually supposed to be the bullet boiling the actual atmosphere as it travels through it.

In my own experience, you use as much scope as you have but, the biggest problem is that unless you have a large front objective, you'll lose the bullet out of the top of your scope field on too high a power because of your limited field of view.

Your milage may vary.

also, I'm not sure a .45 acp is boiling the atmosphere but, on a bright day, you can see the sun glinting off of one most of the time.

 

[Short-bus]

Re: Observing Trace Beyond 1000yds?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: flims</div><div class="ubbcode-body">with the 7.5x55 which performs like a 308win, I could not see the trace past 800 ish it also depends on the background. if shooting against a mountain face the trace seems easier to observe. i dont use more than 20x. on the other hand with 338 and the 50steyr, it was much easier spotting trace,it displaces a larger volume of air and yet beyond certain distances I could not spot trace and I can only correct because the bullet hits dirt and blows 2 feet of dust. beyond 1200m i prefer to have two spotters especially when there is vegetation around the target and missing is easier.

in this video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcenqaXOF5M&feature=related
they recreated quite accurately what happens when a bullet is in flight and how winds effect the trajectory however i cannot understand how experienced guys like those would use ball ammo at such distances when probably army personnel have access to Raufoss rounds. Moreover I cannot see how ball ammo would be of any use at those ranges seen the large ES usually associated with such ammo. beyong 1250m we dont usually shoot ball through our 50steyr, we either stick to match ammo or tracer rounds.

One more thing, whats the magnification on that range finder? we usually use a leupold Tactical TMR at around 20x and a Swaro vski at about 40x just to get a better close up. im surprised a low mag range finder can be really useful at those ranges </div></div>

They used ball ammo as that's what Furlong was using when he made his famous kill shot.

Branden