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Official (DTA) SRS, HTI, Covert, Hunter Thread

#16,451
Blueoval56 said:
A top tier brand that often gets overlooked is March. I’ve been super happy with mine and my 2 shooting buddies also converted. One has the same 4.5-28 that I have and another has the 5-42 and they have been amazing.
Click to expand...
I looked at those and agree they have an impressive pedigree.. for a Desert Tech HTI i really wanted a tank that could handle recoil and a bit of abuse if i ever needed to use the gun in that manner. Vortex and NF have that reputation for durability. The Razor i have on my abusive HTI 50 just takes the abuse of the rocoil and keeps on keepin on... I'm hopeful i get a clean bill of health on my ZCO from the service appointment so i can sell it and go back to tried and true..
 
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#16,452
My tangent theta on my SRS is, I think, the best scope I’ve ever owned. I used to have Nightforce exclusively, but Tangent is definitely a step up. Nightforce will take anything recoil-wise that you can dish out to it, for sure. So far the Zeiss LRP on my 50/375 has functioned flawlessly. The knobs are silly fat, and the reticle is a little fat also but the floating center dot makes aiming at distant targets a breeze. Even though I think (so do others who get behind them) I prefer the view through the Tangent, the LRP is a perfect mate for the big boy because it has a full 41 MRAD of elevation, which gets me to 3250 yards without a prism. The illumination on it is best in industry, too. My TT has a 0.5% tracking bias, and LRP has 0.7% bias. Most NF I've had have been around 1%, even up to 1.5% when tracked using an elaborate procedure.
71824515677__B4091F9A-0E1A-4A5C-982A-EF57D3B6F7BB.jpeg
 
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#16,453
secondofangle2 said:
My tangent theta on my SRS is, I think, the best scope I’ve ever owned. I used to have Nightforce exclusively, but it is definitely a step up. Nightforce will definitely take anything recoil-wise that you can dish out to it, for sure. So far the Zeiss LRP on my 50/375 has functioned flawlessly. The knobs are silly fat, and the reticle is a little fat also but the floating center dot makes aiming at distant targets a breeze. Even though I think (so do others who get behind them) I prefer the view through the Tangent, the LRP is a perfect mate for the big boy because it has a full 41 MRAD of elevation, which gets me to 3250 yards without a prism. The illumination on it is best in industry, too. My TT has a 0.5% tracking bias, and LRP has 0.7% bias. Most NF I've had have been around 1%, even up to 1.5% when tracked using an elaborate procedure. View attachment 8244449
Click to expand...
i remember when i was looking at the ZCO the TT was the one everyone was using as a comparison point at that time.. the one thing i like about my ZCO is the reticle is see though vs my NF which has solid black circles and causes more of an obstruction to view than anything, but obviously a great scope.. ill see what happens with service, hopefully it works out and i get the results i paid for..
 
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#16,454
secondofangle2 said:
My tangent theta on my SRS is, I think, the best scope I’ve ever owned. I used to have Nightforce exclusively, but it is definitely a step up. Nightforce will definitely take anything recoil-wise that you can dish out to it, for sure. So far the Zeiss LRP on my 50/375 has functioned flawlessly. The knobs are silly fat, and the reticle is a little fat also but the floating center dot makes aiming at distant targets a breeze. Even though I think (so do others who get behind them) I prefer the view through the Tangent, the LRP is a perfect mate for the big boy because it has a full 41 MRAD of elevation, which gets me to 3250 yards without a prism. The illumination on it is best in industry, too. My TT has a 0.5% tracking bias, and LRP has 0.7% bias. Most NF I've had have been around 1%, even up to 1.5% when tracked using an elaborate procedure. View attachment 8244449
Click to expand...
That is great info... thanks
 
#16,455
HTI-416 said:
Yes, I have a vortex razor i keep as a backup and there is no issue when that optic is mounted.. the way the gun reacts when zeroing is puzzling until you start figuring out the issue.. Its a large bore round and you take several shots making sure your not the problem, pulling or anticipating recoil..

it was tricky to pinpoint because its gotten increasingly worse over time. Now its very obvious that the scope loses zero after only a few rounds.. The puzzling part is that it doesn't just favor a offset direction, its 2 moa high, then 4 moa low, then 6 moa right and so on, it makes you look at the targe and think what the hell is happening here?

with the backup scope i can make the rounds touch consistently..
Click to expand...
I had this EXACT scenario with one of the first 5-27 ZCO,s i got.

I was doing load development and was having huge issues with random groups opening up and POI variations...spent days blaming my loads and then the rifle.

Finally i changed out the ZCO for my old faithful NSX Nightforce...lo and behold ...No more POI issues and groupings were fantastic.
I was furious that i had spent days wasting time and components when the issue turned out to be the optic!!

At this time i was up at out rear paddocks and rang my dealer with a very agro tone...he understood my frustration and as he is an absolutely top level bloke he promptly despatched me another ZCO .

This is the story just getting started.....from this point on it was all down hill as i had several more ZCO,s fail....my dealer confirmed this and in the end refunded me for all the ZCO,s i had purchased.

He has had other customers...quite a few actually , with similar issues with ZCO......
My local Gunstore will no longer sell ZCO due to several customers having issues...

These are just the facts..
 
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#16,456
wooferocau said:
I had this EXACT scenario with one of the first 5-27 ZCO,s i got.

I was doing load development and was having huge issues with random groups opening up and POI variations...spent days blaming my loads and then the rifle.

Finally i changed out the ZCO for my old faithful NSX Nightforce...lo and behold ...No more POI issues and groupings were fantastic.
I was furious that i had spent days wasting time and components when the issue turned out to be the optic!!

At this time i was up at out rear paddocks and rang my dealer with a very agro tone...he understood my frustration and as he is an absolutely top level bloke he promptly despatched me another ZCO .

This is the story just getting started.....from this point on it was all down hill as i had several more ZCO,s fail....my dealer confirmed this and in the end refunded me for all the ZCO,s i had purchased.

He has had other customers...quite a few actually , with similar issues with ZCO......
My local Gunstore will no longer sell ZCO due to several customers having issues...

These are just the facts..
Click to expand...
Thats a shame, i remember this when i was looking to buy but bought anyway... I'm hoping they dont even try to repair and just send a new one... There are other issues with the optic that i'm not fond of such as the parallax issue and light transmission through the optic.. Its easy for some to chime in with comments like, "it took you a 1000 in ammo to figure out the issue", but it's puplexing when you are working through this issue and ammo for a 416 is quite expensive so when your chasing zero, everytime you shoot, 1000 bucks at 10+ per round is, poof gone.. Now it's got to be sent off, retrieved and re-zeroed again... the other aggravating thing is, if they know this is an issue, how about a service bulletin to make folks aware so they can stop fiddling with their systems and loads... Get ahead of it, own it and make it right..

This far more prevalent that some will admit, as the PM's i received about the POI shift is apparently a known issue... I shouldn't feel this way, but i don't have any confidence they can fix it, but we shall see..

What optic did you switch too?
 
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#16,457
HTI-416 said:
Thats a shame, i remember this when i was looking to buy but bought anyway... I'm hoping they dont even try to repair and just send a new one... There are other issues with the optic that i'm not fond of such as the parallax issue and light transmission through the optic.. Its easy for some to chime in with comments with it took you a 1000 in ammo to figure out the issue, but it's puplexing when you are working through this issue and ammo for a 416 is quite expensive so when your chasing zero, everytime you shoot, 1000 bucks at 10+ per round is, poof gone.. Now its got to be sent off, retrieved and re-zeroed again...

This far more prevalent that some will admit, as the PM's i received about the POI shift is apparently a known issue... I shouldn't feel this way, but i don't have any confidence they can fix it, but we shall see..

What optic did you switch too?
Click to expand...
Currently using 2 S&B 6-36,s on my Desert Tech,s........ best optics i have had to date!!!
 

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#16,459
wooferocau said:
Currently using 2 S&B 6-36,s on my Desert Tech,s........ best optics i have had to date!!!
Click to expand...
nice, i have a friend that swears by them.. Thanks for all the info, i'll see what the rep. purposes.. I'll keep my fingers crossed for a resolution. with the oversized mount makes this a pain in the butt, cause if i discard this optic now i need a new mount as well.. So, I guess i hope they repair correctly / completely or replace it entirely.. lastly how do I in good faith sell a sub-par product?
 
#16,461
secondofangle2 said:
What are those gizmos off to the right of the scopes eyepiece?
Click to expand...

Rianov CSI Digital Cant and Slope (Cosine) Indicator​

australiantacticalprecision.com.au

Rianov Australia CSI Digital Cant Slope (Cosine) Indicator Level

The RIANOV CSI (Cant/Slope Indicator) for long-range precision shooters. Cant and Slope are two very important variables in making accurate shots. The RIANOV CSI will replace both your Cant and Slope bubble levels with a state of the art digital unit capable of measuring Cant and Slope to a 10th...
australiantacticalprecision.com.au australiantacticalprecision.com.au
 
#16,463
wooferocau said:

Rianov CSI Digital Cant and Slope (Cosine) Indicator​

australiantacticalprecision.com.au

Rianov Australia CSI Digital Cant Slope (Cosine) Indicator Level

The RIANOV CSI (Cant/Slope Indicator) for long-range precision shooters. Cant and Slope are two very important variables in making accurate shots. The RIANOV CSI will replace both your Cant and Slope bubble levels with a state of the art digital unit capable of measuring Cant and Slope to a 10th...
australiantacticalprecision.com.au australiantacticalprecision.com.au
Click to expand...
Oh, interesting. I used to have all those doo-dads, an ACI and a digital level. Not knocking them, but I retired them all. I repeat, I'm not knocking the devices, I just decided they're not for me, because:

I found that I spent too much time dicking around with inputs that are almost immaterial even at 2-3000 yards.

At 3000 yards, changing the shot slope (shooting up/down) by 3 full degrees affects my elevation setting by just 0.1 MRAD - one click. I can guestimate to within 3 degrees, or put my phone atop the scope cap.

With my digital level from Long range arms, I found that I was always replacing the battery and again, dicking around trying to keep the rifle PERFECTLY level. Then I learned that a simple bubble level is capable of measuring to within a fraction of a degree - meaning that if your bubble is not perfectly centered, you're probably still within a quarter of a degree. With my Spuhr mount bubbles, if the bubble is touching the lines, it's exactly 0.5 degrees canted. You have to go outside the lines to be more than that. At 2000 yards, a 0.5 degree cant creates an error of about 0.15 MRAD in windage and half that in elevation. Not totally peanuts, and if I'm shooting that far, I'll try to level it as close a possible. But for everyday shooting, with the digital level, I found it was largely a distraction, and I should focus my attention on the wind....or the woodchuck that was popping up and down from the grass...

What are you guys' thoughts on these devices? Worth it or not?
 
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#16,464
HTI-416 said:
The defensiveness of folks on here when you have negative feedback on a ZCO is kinda odd.. I remember reading your experience with ZCO a while back I believe, prior to purchasing mine. When i bought mine someone had made the comment about my serial number and i should be good to go.. I remember thinking it's a new brand and there will be bugs to work out, but we should be past that at this point..

The scope has some issues beyond retaining zero, its dark, overly dark for the tube size, the tracking is off a bit as well, and the parallax is horrible.. its constant trying to keep the parallax in tune.. The razor that sits on my 50 almost never needs adjustment.. zoom in, zoom out, that's it..

this forum has made it so folks wont openly share its opinions and experiences without being beaten up by fanboys... The folks that PM in the background won't openly share their experience because of it.. The forum loses its reason for existing when people are silenced.. Ive been a cop for 20 years, these ding dongs on here are cupcakes compared to the tards i deal with everyday.. bring it!!

I appreciate your willingness to speak publicly on your experience.. Folks that are waiting or debating on whether or not to spend their hard earned money on a ZCO or any product need to know all aspects of the product.. the good and the bad..
Click to expand...
So I’m assuming this is directed at Ordinance Locker and me as we are the only other two I can see on here whose comments could be taken as a defense for ZCO.

If someone took offense to my previous post or took it as an attack on another’s viewpoint, that certainly was not my intention and I apologize if someone took offense to it.

I made a post when another individual said to ditch the ZCO due to issues he had experienced.

I certainly think the experience he had is very concerning and I posted that in my original comment. I just have not seen it on my end. I thought that my experience would also be worth sharing.

This morning, I actually recalled a customer issue when we first started selling ZCO years ago, had his objective lens fog up. It was sent to ZCO and promptly repaired. The customer was happy enough with how things were handled he purchased a couple more ZCO scopes. I remember calling and talking to Jeff at ZCO about it. He explained what caused the issue and how it was addressed. That’s the one known issue regarding a ZCO, I can recall a customer bringing to my attention.

ZCO’s sold in the US are assembled in Orofino, ID. From what it sounds like ZCO’s sold outside the US are assembled in Austria. I have not confirmed that, it’s just what was mentioned on here.

I am curious to know what sort of failure rate ZCO scopes have and if it is different between scopes assembled in the US vs Austria. I’d also like to know if this is a known issue in US made scopes. Again from my perspective as a dealer, I just haven’t been made aware of zero shifting by any of my customers and I have not seen it on my personal scopes.
 
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#16,465
secondofangle2 said:
Oh, interesting. I used to have all those doo-dads, an ACI and a digital level. Not knocking them, but I retired them all. I repeat, I'm not knocking the devices, I just decided they're not for me, because:

I found that I spent too much time dicking around with inputs that are almost immaterial even at 2-3000 yards.

At 3000 yards, changing the shot slope (shooting up/down) by 3 full degrees affects my elevation setting by just 0.1 MRAD - one click. I can guestimate to within 3 degrees, or put my phone atop the scope cap.

With my digital level from Long range arms, I found that I was always replacing the battery and again, dicking around trying to keep the rifle PERFECTLY level. Then I learned that a simple bubble level is capable of measuring to within a fraction of a degree - meaning that if your bubble is not perfectly centered, you're probably still within a quarter of a degree. With my Spuhr mount bubbles, if the bubble is touching the lines, it's exactly 0.5 degrees canted. You have to go outside the lines to be more than that. At 2000 yards, a 0.5 degree cant creates an error of about 0.15 MRAD in windage and half that in elevation. Not totally peanuts, and if I'm shooting that far, I'll try to level it as close a possible. But for everyday shooting, with the digital level, I found it was largely a distraction, and I should focus my attention on the wind....or the woodchuck that was popping up and down from the grass...

What are you guys' thoughts on these devices? Worth it or not?
Click to expand...
I played with a Rianov years back. It actually had ballistics in it as well. It was pretty slick. The elevation and windage holds would change as the rifle was canted. It would actually give you a firing solution when going sideways in urban prone. That said, I generally have bubble levels on my rifles. I’ve started using a couple LRA levels.
 
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#16,466
PRDRIVER said:
So I’m assuming this is directed at Ordinance Locker and me as we are the only other two I can see on here whose comments could be taken as a defense for ZCO.

If someone took offense to my previous post or took it as an attack on another’s viewpoint, that certainly was not my intention and I apologize if someone took offense to it.

I made a post when another individual said to ditch the ZCO due to issues he had experienced.

I certainly think the experience he had is very concerning and I posted that in my original comment. I just have not seen it on my end. I thought that my experience would also be worth sharing.

This morning, I actually recalled a customer issue when we first started selling ZCO years ago, had this objective lens fog up. It was sent to ZCO and promptly repaired. The customer was happy enough with how things were handled he purchased a couple more ZCO scopes. I remember calling and talking to Jeff at ZCO about it. He explained what caused the issue and how it was addressed. That’s the one known issue regarding a ZCO, I can recall a customer bringing to my attention.

ZCO’s sold in the US are assembled in Orofino, ID. From what it sounds like ZCO’s sold outside the US are assembled in Austria. I have not confirmed that, it’s just what was mentioned on here.

I am curious to know what sort of failure rate ZCO scopes have and if it is different between scopes assembled in the US vs Austria. I’d also like to know if this is a known issue in US made scopes. Again from my perspective as a dealer, I just haven’t been made aware of zero shifting by any of my customers and I have not seen it on my personal scopes.
Click to expand...
No worries at all... OL and I had our fun.. I don't have an issue with anyone really, but if someone wants to say silly things i can't help but engage and be equally ignorant.. I have been in contact with the rep, and I'm not happy, but for a multitude of reasons but either they will fix or replace it and life will go on.. Some of the stories i've heard don't give me a warm and fuzzy but we shall see.. All good questions you have, im curious as well...
 
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#16,467
HTI-416 said:
No worries at all... OL and I had our fun.. I don't have an issue with anyone really, but if someone wants to say silly things i can't help but engage and be equally ignorant.. I have been in contact with the rep, and I'm not happy, but for a multitude of reasons but either they will fix or replace it and life will go on.. Some of the stories i've heard don't give me a warm and fuzzy but we shall see.. All good questions you have, im curious as well...
Click to expand...
Keep us posted on how it goes.
 
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#16,469
HTI-416 said:
The defensiveness of folks on here when you have negative feedback on a ZCO is kinda odd.. I remember reading your experience with ZCO a while back I believe, prior to purchasing mine. When i bought mine someone had made the comment about my serial number and i should be good to go.. I remember thinking it's a new brand and there will be bugs to work out, but we should be past that at this point..

The scope has some issues beyond retaining zero, its dark, overly dark for the tube size, the tracking is off a bit as well, and the parallax is horrible.. its constant trying to keep the parallax in tune.. The razor that sits on my 50 almost never needs adjustment.. zoom in, zoom out, that's it..

this forum has made it so folks wont openly share its opinions and experiences without being beaten up by fanboys... The folks that PM in the background won't openly share their experience because of it.. The forum loses its reason for existing when people are silenced.. Ive been a cop for 20 years, these ding dongs on here are cupcakes compared to the tards i deal with everyday.. bring it!!

I appreciate your willingness to speak publicly on your experience.. Folks that are waiting or debating on whether or not to spend their hard earned money on a ZCO or any product need to know all aspects of the product.. the good and the bad..
Click to expand...
Is yours a US or Europe made.

Cause issues seem isolated
 
#16,476
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#16,478
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#16,479
#16,480
PRDRIVER said:
Thanks. Which one do you like the most?
Click to expand...
I like them all except the stock one.. lol Anything that sets it apart from others and new is all im going for.. I ordered the new one with the more aggressive style because the HTI's can be cantankerous to chamber sometimes, so i got one with a bit more bite...
 
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#16,482
HTI-416 said:
I like them all except the stock one.. lol Anything that sets it apart from others and new is all im going for.. I ordered the new one with the more aggressive style because the HTI's can be cantankerous to chamber sometimes, so i got one with a bit more bite...
Click to expand...
One last question. Do you prefer the Atlas 5H or the Elite Iron bipod when shooting the HTI?
 
#16,484
PRDRIVER said:
One last question. Do you prefer the Atlas 5H or the Elite Iron bipod when shooting the
Click to expand...
The Atlas looks really nice and has a great foundation if you’re on a bench. But overall elite iron in my opinion is significantly better because it is vastly more versatile. The 50 now has an EI bipod on it as well.
 
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#16,485
Exactly my experience LRA for bench EI for everything else.

For field shooting on slopes, LRA is too short for DT bc the pistol grip sticks down too far, limiting uphill to like 6 degrees if you’re on uneven ground. It had to go for that reason alone. I’d even like the EI to be an inch taller.

Also guys if you need to remove it, instead of unscrewing the mounting screws, u can unscrew the ring front of the rotating spigot and take the legs/spigot off that way

ETA: I see that they make extension feet for EI bipods to add 1.5 or 2.5" to the end of the legs, I just learned: https://eliteiron.com/product/revolution-bipod-leg-extensions/
 
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#16,492
Finally got to go out and shoot over the weekend. Once I figured out how the razors tool-less zero worked, it was almost too easy to make hits at 500, despite the winds shifting pretty frequently.

Y’all were right 140 ELD-M are the bee’s knees.

Has anyone ever seen any Black Friday deals on DT mags? I’d like to get another one or two, and I’d like to try the 10 rounders as well, assuming they can be found for a good deal.
 

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#16,493
Aerem said:
Finally got to go out and shoot over the weekend. Once I figured out how the razors tool-less zero worked, it was almost too easy to make hits at 500, despite the winds shifting pretty frequently.

Y’all were right 140 ELD-M are the bee’s knees.

Has anyone ever seen any Black Friday deals on DT mags? I’d like to get another one or two, and I’d like to try the 10 rounders as well, assuming they can be found for a good deal.
Click to expand...
As a DT distributor, I do not recall specials on magazines.
 
#16,494
I’m trying to sort out demand for a couple DT related products.

We worked with Sawtooth Rifles to develop some ARCA rails for the A2. We have full length (basically from the end of the hand guard and reflexing back over the stock panels to the trigger guard) for the Standard length SRS and Covert. We also have a rail that is about 5” long essentially hose from the trigger guard and takes up about 2 inches of the hand guard, for shooters who want arca mounting near the rifles balance point for shooting off a tripod. This shorter rail will work with the A2 SRS, Covert, and even the M2.

Who would be interested in similar type rails for the A1 rifles?

Any interest in an ARCA rail for the HTI?
 
#16,495
PRDRIVER said:
I’m trying to sort out demand for a couple DT related products.

We worked with Sawtooth Rifles to develop some ARCA rails for the A2. We have full length (basically from the end of the hand guard and reflexing back over the stock panels to the trigger guard) for the Standard length SRS and Covert. We also have a rail that is about 5” long essentially hose from the trigger guard and takes up about 2 inches of the hand guard, for shooters who want arca mounting near the rifles balance point for shooting off a tripod. This shorter rail will work with the A2 SRS, Covert, and even the M2.

Who would be interested in similar type rails for the A1 rifles?

Any interest in an ARCA rail for the HTI?
Click to expand...
Free bump. I love mine. Makes tripod shots very doable. Makes a comfy hide for glassing.
 
#16,496
PRDRIVER said:
I’m trying to sort out demand for a couple DT related products.

We worked with Sawtooth Rifles to develop some ARCA rails for the A2. We have full length (basically from the end of the hand guard and reflexing back over the stock panels to the trigger guard) for the Standard length SRS and Covert. We also have a rail that is about 5” long essentially hose from the trigger guard and takes up about 2 inches of the hand guard, for shooters who want arca mounting near the rifles balance point for shooting off a tripod. This shorter rail will work with the A2 SRS, Covert, and even the M2.

Who would be interested in similar type rails for the A1 rifles?

Any interest in an ARCA rail for the HTI?
Click to expand...
I would be interested in the short rail for an A1 for shooting off a tripod
 
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#16,497
PRDRIVER said:
I’m trying to sort out demand for a couple DT related products.

We worked with Sawtooth Rifles to develop some ARCA rails for the A2. We have full length (basically from the end of the hand guard and reflexing back over the stock panels to the trigger guard) for the Standard length SRS and Covert. We also have a rail that is about 5” long essentially hose from the trigger guard and takes up about 2 inches of the hand guard, for shooters who want arca mounting near the rifles balance point for shooting off a tripod. This shorter rail will work with the A2 SRS, Covert, and even the M2.

Who would be interested in similar type rails for the A1 rifles?

Any interest in an ARCA rail for the HTI?
Click to expand...
What I would like to see is a conversion kit for the HTI to use SRS conversions. sleeve the barrel and sleeve the bolt and make a striker longer where it engages the sear. The barrel would sit further back in the receiver. You could use a suppressor for shorter barrels. It can be made with three parts but it would be single feed. I would still want a mag adaptor. But I would be happy with a single feed.
 
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#16,498
PRDRIVER said:
We also have a rail that is about 5” long essentially *goes from the trigger guard and takes up about 2 inches of the hand guard, for shooters who want arca mounting near the rifles balance point for shooting off a tripod.

Who would be interested in similar type rails for the A1 rifles?
Click to expand...

I'd be into a short one for the A1. I'd be willing to bet my brother would too.
 
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