Night Vision Only got one eye, and I want fusion!

[RKM556]

Howdy everyone! I've been lurking on this sub forever. Finally made an account today - an event years in the making.

I want a solution for NV fusion, but in monocular form. The whole "bridge a skeet with a 14" seems like a way for all y'all to flex that extra eye you have, and is not an option for monocular me. I would love to try the ECOTI, but it just seems not even close to as good as the true fusion options like the PSQ-20C (ENVG III).

Basically I would love some insight, is the SkeetIRX good enough for land nav? If not, is the ECOTI with a nice 14 good enough? If the ENVG III is that much better, is it worth the extra cash and the risk to acquire one? I need a solution that allows me to walk through mountainous (or quite hilly), wooded terrain chasing down wild pigs.

Also, I have a financial advantage over you all - I don't need duals, so the cash that many put toward a nice set of UF WP duals (10k+) I can put toward an extra fancy fusion monocular!

Thanks for any help or discussion!

 

[stefan73]

Howdy everyone! I've been lurking on this sub forever. Finally made an account today - an event years in the making.

I want a solution for NV fusion, but in monocular form. The whole "bridge a skeet with a 14" seems like a way for all y'all to flex that extra eye you have, and is not an option for monocular me. I would love to try the ECOTI, but it just seems not even close to as good as the true fusion options like the PSQ-20C (ENVG III).

Basically I would love some insight, is the SkeetIRX good enough for land nav? If not, is the ECOTI with a nice 14 good enough? If the ENVG III is that much better, is it worth the extra cash and the risk to acquire one? I need a solution that allows me to walk through mountainous (or quite hilly), wooded terrain chasing down wild pigs.

Also, I have a financial advantage over you all - I don't need duals, so the cash that many put toward a nice set of UF WP duals (10k+) I can put toward an extra fancy fusion monocular!

Thanks for any help or discussion!

Makes the decision easier for you. Us bi-eye'd peeps tend to suffer from paralysis by analysis as the Horta likes to put it. Buying NVG's seems to be like figuring out where our wives want to eat dinner at.

 

[RKM556]

Makes the decision easier for you. Us bi-eye'd peeps tend to suffer from paralysis by analysis as the Horta likes to put it. Buying NVG's seems to be like figuring out where our wives want to eat dinner at.

"would you like 31A for NV?"

'no.'

"BNVD-UL?"

'no, you pick'

"RNVGs then."

'no, that's too heavy and outdated.'

 

[stefan73]

"would you like 31A for NV?"

'no.'

"BNVD-UL?"

'no, you pick'

"RNVGs then."

'no, that's too heavy and outdated.'

My biggest challenge is when my wife sees the credit card bill I show her the cost of what I want just to make things a little spicy (I keep the firearms locked away, and the knives).

 

[M4guru]

I've know a bunch of your fellow pirates that had to adapt to one eye. A nice -14 with an E-COTI would give you some flexibility to drop weight/size or weapon mount it if you needed to. Honestly the 320-res COTI in outline mode for sub-$3K works pretty good for what you're asking it to do, I don't know that the E-COTI is worth an extra $6000 unless you're sure you need it.

If I were a one-eye pig hunter I'd get the nicest -14 I could and the $2900 COTI.

 

[GreenMushroom]

My wife has a similar situation. Filmless tube/coti on a half bridge so it's quick to roll up to use a real thermal hand held. Exps3 and laser on the rifle. Coti does fine if you dig in the settings. They're 2500 at Eurooptic right now. Put the $ saved vrs a ecoti towards a nice handheld or wmt.

I would not recommend a thermal as a primary navigation. It works right up until it doesn't. Maybe if you live in South West Flatlandia and walk around in open fields all night....maybe.

 

[stefan73]

I've know a bunch of your fellow pirates that had to adapt to one eye. A nice -14 with an E-COTI would give you some flexibility to drop weight/size or weapon mount it if you needed to. Honestly the 320-res COTI in outline mode for sub-$3K works pretty good for what you're asking it to do, I don't know that the E-COTI is worth an extra $6000 unless you're sure you need it.

If I were a one-eye pig hunter I'd get the nicest -14 I could and the $2900 COTI.

You can find Coti's for less. I bet Wigwam could find you one.

 

[RKM556]

I've know a bunch of your fellow pirates that had to adapt to one eye. A nice -14 with an E-COTI would give you some flexibility to drop weight/size or weapon mount it if you needed to. Honestly the 320-res COTI in outline mode for sub-$3K works pretty good for what you're asking it to do, I don't know that the E-COTI is worth an extra $6000 unless you're sure you need it.

If I were a one-eye pig hunter I'd get the nicest -14 I could and the $2900 COTI.

I've definitely considered this! But I've heard mixed reviews on the older COTI but the price is unquestionably appealing. That with a super high FOM tube in a good housing would be nice.

 

[RKM556]

My wife has a similar situation. Filmless tube/coti on a half bridge so it's quick to roll up to use a real thermal hand held. Exps3 and laser on the rifle. Coti does fine if you dig in the settings. They're 2500 at Eurooptic right now. Put the $ saved vrs a ecoti towards a nice handheld or wmt.

I would not recommend a thermal as a primary navigation. It works right up until it doesn't. Maybe if you live in South West Flatlandia and walk around in open fields all night....maybe.

This is super helpful. Which half bridge does she use? That sounds like a great setup.

Good to know on the thermal for nav. I do not live anywhere near SW Flatlandia, so perhaps that's not the move.

 

[WhereNow&How]

This is super helpful. Which half bridge does she use? That sounds like a great setup.

I suspect he is referring to one of the Mod Armory versions. It takes but a second to unbolt whichever side you do not want an arm on. These bridges are super solid and well built.

Night Vision Helmet Mount Dual PVS-14 Light Weight Mounting System

Night Vision Helmet Mount Dual PVS-14 Light Weight Mounting System offers an adaptable system to be configured for dual tube technology.

www.modarmory.com

 

[WhereNow&How]

A PVS 14 with a Pas 29 COTI works very well for the application OP is wanting. Additionally, I always run any of my NV quite a bit away from my eyes such that I can see around and under my NV plus by running further out you do not fog up the units with your body heat/sweat.

Another benefit to running the NV far from your eyes is that I can also slide a Flir Breach up to the same eye at an angle and scan with it if I want to without ever moving my NV/Coti set up.

 

[CTM1]

When these come out go for broke and buy one. Nothing like being able to flip between NV and thermal or fuse the two. The advantage of units like this over the coti equipped NV is that it does not need to be dark out to use the thermal channel.


https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/anyone-interested-in-an-envg-iii-fusion-mono.7089189/

 

[GreenMushroom]

This is super helpful. Which half bridge does she use? That sounds like a great setup.

Good to know on the thermal for nav. I do not live anywhere near SW Flatlandia, so perhaps that's not the move.

We have Mod Armory. We got the d14s with the quick disconnect since we mix and match a lot. If this doesn't apply for you get the lightweight posted above. It's quite a bit cheaper and has less moving parts. If your going to get a thermal that's helmet mountable as well as hand held get the d14 so you can swap your thermal out for your 14 when you want to.

If you go d14 give Mod Armory a call. They let me select options not available on the website. You can get just one arm and they might let you leave off the socket on the side you don't need and save some $.

Thermals can be used for navigating its just that in some terrain and conditions they suck and can be potentially dangerous. Having both is the best option imo. For instance for kayaking my wife prefers her thermal over her 14.

 

[wigwamitus]

COTI+14 + CP Night CAP ... one eye ... minimalist setup !

Good for detecting heat signatures out to 500ish ... PID ... depends on how long you have to observe the critters ...

Best for quick engagements close in ... like in the woods in vegetation when the thermal can see the critter but the 14 can't ... and illum woujld make things worse bouncing off the trees back at you, but 14 can see the laser and you can get the job done. Best of both worlds.

 

[Conqueror]

When these come out go for broke and buy one. Nothing like being able to flip between NV and thermal or fuse the two. The advantage of units like this over the coti equipped NV is that it does not need to be dark out to use the thermal channel.


https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/anyone-interested-in-an-envg-iii-fusion-mono.7089189/

Last I heard that project is on hold (sad face).

 

[shoobe01]

...COTI+14 + CP Night CAP ... one eye ... minimalist setup...

Among the things I looked through at Wig's place was this. In outline mode it's pretty neat. The limited FOV is a limit, the unit is a bit odd but I am sure I'd get used to the batteries and switches.

I loves me my NOX but when comparing outline-to-outline it's in the basic ballpark. You can wander and get hot targets out a ways, use it for pretty neat extra identity of things to not bump into, shoot at, etc. when its real dark.

Even if available, and money no object, the PSQ-20 is pretty big, heavy, and the weird mount is weird. Oh, and the thermal overlay is still a square in the middle, much like COTI, not a full frame image. I'm not sure I'd get one (PSQ-40 is a lot neater but is binocular, yes, I know), so fusion will be improving all the time.

If you could import them, there are lots of neat things in other countries. Here's a good example:

Polish domestic NV/TIC producer PCO, makes the MU-3M KOLIBER NV monocular, and it has a spot on the bottom to attach a ClipIR. That injects an image via some collimator somehow much like the COTI but it's designed to clip on, has a rather larger image area.

 

[TheHorta]

Wig and WHN are right. 14 + COTI.

$5K and you’re golden.

 

[RKM556]

I suspect he is referring to one of the Mod Armory versions. It takes but a second to unbolt whichever side you do not want an arm on. These bridges are super solid and well built.

Night Vision Helmet Mount Dual PVS-14 Light Weight Mounting System

Night Vision Helmet Mount Dual PVS-14 Light Weight Mounting System offers an adaptable system to be configured for dual tube technology.

www.modarmory.com

Awesome! This is a great tip, thank you. I will be giving them a call tomorrow.

A PVS 14 with a Pas 29 COTI works very well for the application OP is wanting. Additionally, I always run any of my NV quite a bit away from my eyes such that I can see around and under my NV plus by running further out you do not fog up the units with your body heat/sweat.

Another benefit to running the NV far from your eyes is that I can also slide a Flir Breach up to the same eye at an angle and scan with it if I want to without ever moving my NV/Coti set up.

Thanks very much. I was concerned about potential lack of thermal ability with the COTI compared to newer options. If it's still relevant, then it sure would save me a lot of money!

When these come out go for broke and buy one. Nothing like being able to flip between NV and thermal or fuse the two. The advantage of units like this over the coti equipped NV is that it does not need to be dark out to use the thermal channel.


https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/anyone-interested-in-an-envg-iii-fusion-mono.7089189/

This was actually my original plan, but these are not happening anymore I have heard. very sad!

We have Mod Armory. We got the d14s with the quick disconnect since we mix and match a lot. If this doesn't apply for you get the lightweight posted above. It's quite a bit cheaper and has less moving parts. If your going to get a thermal that's helmet mountable as well as hand held get the d14 so you can swap your thermal out for your 14 when you want to.

If you go d14 give Mod Armory a call. They let me select options not available on the website. You can get just one arm and they might let you leave off the socket on the side you don't need and save some $.

Thermals can be used for navigating its just that in some terrain and conditions they suck and can be potentially dangerous. Having both is the best option imo. For instance for kayaking my wife prefers her thermal over her 14.

Thank you very much for the tip!! I will be calling them tomorrow. I will also snag a thermal scanner, probably the nox for now if I do a COTI.

COTI+14 + CP Night CAP ... one eye ... minimalist setup !

Good for detecting heat signatures out to 500ish ... PID ... depends on how long you have to observe the critters ...

Best for quick engagements close in ... like in the woods in vegetation when the thermal can see the critter but the 14 can't ... and illum woujld make things worse bouncing off the trees back at you, but 14 can see the laser and you can get the job done. Best of both worlds.

I can think of a few distinct situations where I had an animal (hog, deer, possum, etc) within 20 yards in the woods but couldn't see it with my NV. Turning on illumination just reflected off of the brush in front of me. This is exactly what I'd be using it for and lines up well with my personal experience!

Among the things I looked through at Wig's place was this. In outline mode it's pretty neat. The limited FOV is a limit, the unit is a bit odd but I am sure I'd get used to the batteries and switches.

I loves me my NOX but when comparing outline-to-outline it's in the basic ballpark. You can wander and get hot targets out a ways, use it for pretty neat extra identity of things to not bump into, shoot at, etc. when its real dark.

Even if available, and money no object, the PSQ-20 is pretty big, heavy, and the weird mount is weird. Oh, and the thermal overlay is still a square in the middle, much like COTI, not a full frame image. I'm not sure I'd get one (PSQ-40 is a lot neater but is binocular, yes, I know), so fusion will be improving all the time.

If you could import them, there are lots of neat things in other countries. Here's a good example:

Polish domestic NV/TIC producer PCO, makes the MU-3M KOLIBER NV monocular, and it has a spot on the bottom to attach a ClipIR. That injects an image via some collimator somehow much like the COTI but it's designed to clip on, has a rather larger image area.

This is awesome, but I have no idea how I'd go about importing this. That's well beyond the scope of my knowledge. I know that folks are able to import some chinese units, if that can be done than can polish/german units be imported? I believe there is a company in germany that makes a fusion knockoff.

Wig and WHN are right. 14 + COTI.

$5K and you’re golden.

The Horta has spoken. If the COTI is good enough for the Thermal Man himself to suggest, maybe it's good enough!




Phew, sorry for a billion quotes. Got really busy at work last night and today and was unable to get to the computer!

 

[shoobe01]

Also can't believe no one has overlapped this with the laser thread, and posted this critical information for the OP:

 

[RKM556]

Also can't believe no one has overlapped this with the laser thread, and posted this critical information for the OP:

Hahahahahahaha, no FP lasers ever for me for this reason!

 

[DownRangeThermal]

Among the things I looked through at Wig's place was this. In outline mode it's pretty neat. The limited FOV is a limit, the unit is a bit odd but I am sure I'd get used to the batteries and switches.

I loves me my NOX but when comparing outline-to-outline it's in the basic ballpark. You can wander and get hot targets out a ways, use it for pretty neat extra identity of things to not bump into, shoot at, etc. when its real dark.

Even if available, and money no object, the PSQ-20 is pretty big, heavy, and the weird mount is weird. Oh, and the thermal overlay is still a square in the middle, much like COTI, not a full frame image. I'm not sure I'd get one (PSQ-40 is a lot neater but is binocular, yes, I know), so fusion will be improving all the time.

If you could import them, there are lots of neat things in other countries. Here's a good example:

Polish domestic NV/TIC producer PCO, makes the MU-3M KOLIBER NV monocular, and it has a spot on the bottom to attach a ClipIR. That injects an image via some collimator somehow much like the COTI but it's designed to clip on, has a rather larger image ar

Among the things I looked through at Wig's place was this. In outline mode it's pretty neat. The limited FOV is a limit, the unit is a bit odd but I am sure I'd get used to the batteries and switches.

I loves me my NOX but when comparing outline-to-outline it's in the basic ballpark. You can wander and get hot targets out a ways, use it for pretty neat extra identity of things to not bump into, shoot at, etc. when its real dark.

Even if available, and money no object, the PSQ-20 is pretty big, heavy, and the weird mount is weird. Oh, and the thermal overlay is still a square in the middle, much like COTI, not a full frame image. I'm not sure I'd get one (PSQ-40 is a lot neater but is binocular, yes, I know), so fusion will be improving all the time.

If you could import them, there are lots of neat things in other countries. Here's a good example:

Polish domestic NV/TIC producer PCO, makes the MU-3M KOLIBER NV monocular, and it has a spot on the bottom to attach a ClipIR. That injects an image via some collimator somehow much like the COTI but it's designed to clip on, has a rather larger image area.

FYI....PSQ-40 is the ENVG-III mono goggle. Another manf is making a commercial copy of it soon. Will be around $14k to consumers.

 

[RKM556]

FYI....PSQ-40 is the ENVG-III mono goggle. Another manf is making a commercial copy of it soon. Will be around $14k to consumers.View attachment 7751678

That is awesome news and would be exactly what I’m looking for. However I had heard that there was one that fell through that was announced in August of this year. Is there an alternative coming out? That’d be epic!

 

[shoobe01]

FYI....PSQ-40 is the ENVG-III mono goggle...

Dammit, Army! "PSQ-40" is FOR SURE listed on a PEO page as the name for the ENVG-B. I'll try to purge that from my brain.

Happen to have a dataplate, can tell me what the nomenclature is on those aside from "ENVG-III"? Unless that's secret

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

PSQ-20b is the WP hybrid mono, at least the one I was issued a while ago. I hated it in the field due to the shitty battery life when thermal is turned on, weight, and lack of necessity to see a bunny running through a bush. For work I'll take the 31As, for hog hunting I'd use the 31As with an ECOTI with a thermal and DBAL/NGAL on my rifle.

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

Or maybe that's the older model, I know the PSQ-36s are the duals.

 

[Sigma]

Or maybe that's the older model, I know the PSQ-36s are the duals.

New duals are psq42 and are definitely not available commercially .

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

The main issue is the connection to the military network.

 

[aslrookie]

Why not run a 14 with a rotating mount and carry a handheld thermal to scan with? Then you don’t have to compromise.

 

[shoobe01]

The main issue is the connection to the military network.

Just had to explain that in some detail to someone today. No way you get to use them without the bonus of a government paycheck because secure-proprietary commo stuff. We'll never see those legit surplussed, etc. Like MBITR, will need an "ENVG-CLEAR" version with the allowed features, as on the other thread... maybe, sometime.

 

[Conqueror]

New duals are psq42 and are definitely not available commercially .

If only... IIRC the Elbit ones are 1080 resolution 10μm .

 

[DownRangeThermal]

640 10micron in elbit. 640 12 micron in L3H. No HD fpa in them. HD display though.

 

[RKM556]

640 10micron in elbit. 640 12 micron in L3H. No HD fpa in them. HD display though.
View attachment 7754366View attachment 7754371

Is this something I can acquire? Or do these have army special sauce in them?

 

[DownRangeThermal]

Army special stuff as of now. UWB really only comms with other specific battlefield peripherals but they keep it close for obvious reasons.