Optic for RECCE style rifle?

[Saluki2003]

I'm about to pull the trigger on the BCM RECCE 16 and now I'm trying to figure out what optic to go with. Its basically coming down to a lower powered Vortex scope or an ACOG. Which would you prefer? Which model would you recommend from your choice? Of if you recommend something different please post up what you would go with.

My planned use for this gun will be punching paper and hitting steel plates out to approx 500-600 yards. In case of a SHTF event this will be my main battle rifle. My other firearms are a Remington 870 and a Sig SP2022 and P220.

Thanks guys.

 

[ajwcotton]

My preference is the vortex razor HD II, 1-6 power. It has excellent glass, a useable and simple BDC reticle similar to the ACOG but with more mag on the top end and a very nice 1x red dot on the bottom end.

 

[Cdiver0109]

I agree. Variable magnification great glass and awesome warranty at roughly the same price point. Go razor

 

[tickled pink]

This is what I just put on my Colt LE6920 M4 which has a Geissele SSA-E trigger added. The glass in this scope is much clearer & sharper IMHO than my Leupold 3-9x40mm scope. You can not beat the price either. I use mine for deer hunting and target shooting out 600 yds. plus.

BUSHNELL 4.5-18X40 BDC RETICLE TARGET AR-SCOPE @ Sportsmans Outdoor Superstore:

 

[Redmanss]

What is your budget? We can go all over the place here...

 

[Saluki2003]

Guess that would have been good to add. I'd like to keep it under $1k. I've seen some ACOGs on sale for $999 so thats about the most I'd like to spend on it.

 

[LRRPF52]

I hate ACOGs. Biggest issue with them is eye relief and exit pupil, which are both unacceptable on most of the earlier models, and barely workable on the 3.5x. They are a great scope for issuing to troops who need a rugged optic that takes a beating, and basically stays put even better than iron sights. We were constantly replacing front sight posts on the M16's and M4's in infantry units for getting bent from use and abuse.

I am all about the variable power tubes that have a 1x-4 or more. What part of the country are you in? It makes a difference. For example, I'm out West, where I can't bring enough gun to the desert and mountains. A 20mm Laht anti-tank rifle would barely cut the mustard for many of the distances we have out here.

Once you get into the rolling farmland of the Midwest, distances start to shrink, depending on the season. Over the Mississippi, and now you're in the sticks.

For the "Recce" profile gun, which is basically packing as much SPR performance into a 16" carbine, I really like 1-4x24, 1-6x24, and 2.5-10x32 or 2.5-10x44 out here in the Rocky Mountain Region. If I was back in East TX, LA, MS, AL, GA, FL, SC, NC, TN, KY, VA, PA, NY, VT, NH, ME, a 1-4x24 as small as possible would be fine.

One caveat might be the Appalachians if I were at elevation or foothills, but you still have a lot of dense forest in those regions.

If you are in the high desert of WA, ID, OR, NV, AZ, CA, NM, TX, UT, or CO, I prefer the 2.5-10x. Based on these parameters, I would recommend either a Vortex 1-4x Viper HS or PST, or the 2.5-10x32 or 2.5-10x44 PST. All are within your budget, have zero-stop, different reticle options, capped or target turrets, MOA or MRAD, SFP and FFP.

If you live in the sticks or a larger urbanized area, get the 1-4x24 with illumination. If out in the countryside, consider the parameters listed above as you make your selection.

 

[pmclaine]

There was a USO 1-8X (red dot at 1X) in the Optics for sale section with a custom BDC reticle set up for 77 SMKs. I think that would give you plenty of speed/utility.

If you shoot other than 77s Im sure the drop can be figured out.

Not my scope (but I have one on order)

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/optics-sale/216341-wts-us-optics-sr8c-1-8-scope.html

The Dos Equis guy will drink with you when sporting one of these.

Sorry just saw your budget. You can get good glass for what you are budgeting, that is a lot of cash, but this USO scope is made using powdered Unicorn bladders.

 

[Saluki2003]

I live in San Diego and will also be taking this gun out to the high desert for shooting as well. Do you think a 2.5 to 10x would be well suited for my application?

Or is there an optic that has magnification like that USO that wont kill my wallet?

I wish I could afford that USO scope...that thing is sick!

 

[Redmanss]

For under (well, at...) $1k, a 1-6x from SWFA would be a nice fit but you may find yourself wanting more top end at the longer distances. If you want to step up the magnification and don't see yourself doing CQ distances with it, take a look at the Vortex 2.5-10x32. You might find some used non-ZS Nightforce 2.5-10x32 out there inside your budget, and that would be a really nice match without weighing down your rifle.

The 1-8x scopes are nice, very flexible (I have a CQBSS), but they're fairly heavy and in my mind not a good match for a carbine. Mine is going over to my .308 because it's a pig already, and I'm shifting the 18" AR to the Vortex Razor.

 

[tickled pink]

For under (well, at...) $1k, a 1-6x from SWFA would be a nice fit but you may find yourself wanting more top end at the longer distances. If you want to step up the magnification and don't see yourself doing CQ distances with it, take a look at the Vortex 2.5-10x32. You might find some used non-ZS Nightforce 2.5-10x32 out there inside your budget, and that would be a really nice match without weighing down your rifle.

The 1-8x scopes are nice, very flexible (I have a CQBSS), but they're fairly heavy and in my mind not a good match for a carbine. Mine is going over to my .308 because it's a pig already, and I'm shifting the 18" AR to the Vortex Razor.

No insult intended, but you seem to think if you spend a lot of money you will get something better. I have a Vortex 6-24x50mm PST FFP MOA scope with a custom turret that I use on my long-range antelope hunting rifle. It consistently shoots under 2 inches at 400 yards. I bought a Bushnell AR/223 scope 4.5-18x40mm for my Colt LE6920 M4. I think the glass is better than my PST. The Bushnell is so clear and sharp it will blow you away. The reticule is great also. You will be doing yourself an injustice by not looking through one. If you want more magnification and don't have it what then. If you have a lot of magnification and don't need just turn down the power. Here is pictures of mine.

 

[LRRPF52]

So for the SoCal area, you have a lot of wide open spaces with desert, lots of ambient light, rarely overcast, very dry air, high winds and sand devils.

I would get the smallest 2.5-10x you could get, with the best features for the money. If your budget was in the thousands, then you might consider a March Optics, or try to find a NightForce 2.5-10x24 (yeah right!), but they are a lot of money for the compactness and superb glass.

The Bushnell 4.5-18x40 is too much scope for a Recce profile carbine in my opinion, and won't allow you to have a good close-quarters aiming solution, even when dialed down to 4.5x. The highest magnification that I have found doable on the low end is 3x, but I prefer as low as I can get and will keep the scope on the lowest power setting during movement.

I actually like the Vortex PST 2.5-10x44 a little better than the newer FFP 2.5-10x32, because of FOV and length. I originally wanted Side Focus, but have come to appreciate simplicity after breaking the SF on a Schmidt & Bender PM II right before an international sniper competition. I also like that there isn't the SF knob to catch on my pouches and other catch-me, spank me snag opportunities.

This is what the 2.5-10x44 looks like on a 16" carbine:



2.5 Power


10 power

 

[800mZero]

Scour the px for a nf 2.5-10

 

[Ando]

Usable 1x is a great feature I would not want to lose. SS 1-6 or maybe the Bushnell 1-6.5. I've got the trijicon 1x-4x and it is awesome. I do miss a lit bit of mag on top though....

 

[Redmanss]

No insult intended, but you seem to think if you spend a lot of money you will get something better. I have a Vortex 6-24x50mm PST FFP MOA scope with a custom turret that I use on my long-range antelope hunting rifle. It consistently shoots under 2 inches at 400 yards. I bought a Bushnell AR/223 scope 4.5-18x40mm for my Colt LE6920 M4. I think the glass is better than my PST. The Bushnell is so clear and sharp it will blow you away. The reticule is great also. You will be doing yourself an injustice by not looking through one. If you want more magnification and don't have it what then. If you have a lot of magnification and don't need just turn down the power. Here is pictures of mine.

I'm glad you have found scopes that are both inexpensive and suit your needs. That's awesome. I on the other hand apparently have different requirements and/or desires. If there is one thing I've discovered, it's that in glass you get what you pay for. My rifles have Leupold, Schmidt and Bender, US Optics, SWFA HD, Trijicon and Aimpoints on them, and my cheapest scope is an old Weaver T-10 on my 40x. I've used many of the same optics on my work rifles over my years as well, and I know what works for me during the best of times shooting off the bench at the range, and the worst of times in a shit storm of weather conditions while I'm being far from gentle on them. My optics track and put me on target every single time, and at the same time allow me every ounce of flexibility that I ask of them. I've had inexpensive optics pushed onto me in the past that don't last a month, much less a full contract cycle. It's not fun telling the USG rep they just pissed taxpayer money away and now get to "buy twice, shitcan once", especially when that same rep can eject you from the country on a whim.

In this case, I asked the OP what his budget is. I didn't recommend anything outside his budget aside mentioning to him what I've tried and found unsuitable for my purposes. [MENTION=66921]LRRPF52[/MENTION] is giving some great in depth advice as well, and I like him appreciate simplicity and flexibility while being durable enough to fulfill the role asked of it. The OP is going to carry this rifle into the desert and while I usually avoid anything mentioning SHTF situations, he still mentions it so I suggested a scope with known high durability (Nightforce) or companies that fully stand behind their optics (SWFA and Vortex). I don't believe in pay to play in this sport, everyone has their own budgets, but I do believe in getting the best you can sensibly afford.

While we're sharing photos, here's my latest carbine build I put together for my girlfriend:

 

[Saluki2003]

Thanks for all the info guys! I'm going to go with the Vortex PST 2.5-10x44.

What mount would you guys recommend for it? I was thinking of this one: LaRue Tactical SPR / M4 Scope Mount QD LT104 | LaRue Tactical

Anything else I would need?

 

[Redmanss]

Do you want/need a QD? I typically pass on those and go with Badger or Nightforce one piece mounts.

 

[Saluki2003]

Do you want/need a QD? I typically pass on those and go with Badger or Nightforce one piece mounts.

I've just had a few guys recommend that particular mount....Not really sure why I would need a QD though. LoL

 

[Redmanss]

A Nightforce Unimount (cantilever style) would be a perfect match for that rifle and scope, 1.375" height. Save the QDs for two way ranges and when you want to swap optics back and forth.

 

[VJJPunisher]

acogs suck ass, that is all

 

[Saluki2003]

acogs suck ass, that is all

After looking through several ACOGs and Vortex scopes I've realized that the ACOG will not give me the precision I need for the range that I would like to become effective at.

Im going to go with the Vortex PST 2.5-10x44.

Any other opinions on what mount to get with that scope?

 

[LRRPF52]

As far as mounts or rings go, as long as you buy from a reputable manufacturer, made in US or Europe, with solid attachment that doesn't come loose, your bases are covered there. One thing that commonly gets overlooked is fitting the ring height to your anatomy.

Before you buy an optic, get your carbine out, make it empty and safe, put it in a rest, and pick up a nice solid position with a firm cheek weld, looking at a small target lined up with the bore in the distance. Using a ruler, measure the height to the center of your particular eye height above the top rail of your upper receiver. Triple-check the measurement, then look for rings or mounts that have a height that fits your eye height.

The rings will often have the height indicated by the manufacturer, but that height is from the base to the bottom inner edge much of the time. This is simple to compensate for. Since you are using a 30mm tube, convert 30mm to inches, which is 1.18".

Our end goal is to finish with a measurement of the center of the scope being at our exact eye height from the firm and repeatable cheek weld, which you obtained with a ruler. You might even want to use calipers. Mine is between 1.25" to 1.3", as 1.5" is too high for me, but I'm used to it and I adapt by using an upper bicuspid tooth weld through the cheek, rather than my inferior zygomatic arch (underside of the cheekbone).

So let's say you have a 1.3" optimal eye height like me. Half of 30mm is .59" or ~.6".

The optimum ring height will be your eye height - .6" for a 30mm tube.

In this case, .7" rings or base-to-ring height will be optimal for a nice cheek weld, where you don't have to search for the centered-up sight picture of your tube.

Now good luck finding .7" high rings. As long as we're using telescoping stocks, with AR15 charge handle clearance, there are very limited options as to cheek pieces, and most AR15 one-piece bases with rings set the scopes up at 1.5" or higher.

Avoid Chinese, Wal-Mart, rings with one screw per side. If the price is under $50 for the ring set, it's probably a waste of your money 9/10, and you may as well just take the cash and burn it, because that won't involve burning your precious ammo, gas to the range, and as much time, plus you can warm your hands or enjoy the entertainment value of the fire, rather than cussing and cursing at the range when your group is all over the place, and your optic comes loose. I've seen it too many times, especially in the opening of hunting season.

 

[jb326]

I use a Leupold VX-R Patrol on my Daniel Defense V7. I also tried a Vortex PST 1-4, but ultimately stuck with the Leupold as I primarily use this rifle for 3 Gun, and the Leupold reticle works better for speed. If I was aiming more for precision, the Vortex would definitely have gotten the nod.

 

[ChemE1975]

you did not define if close shots/speed were much of a priority. if those shots are the biggest priority, then you need an aimpoint.

if you want something functional close up but a compromise, go for a 1-4.

if you are really never going to do fast paced shooting and really going to be out in the desert trying to make a 500-yard shot, you should go with a 3-9 or 2.5-10, etc.

 

[Saluki2003]

Im not really planning on doing any fast paced shooting. Im more interested in working on my accuracy and becoming effective from 100 yds out to 500+ yds and learning how to calculate all the factors involved in making those shots.

 

[WaveNature]

you did not define if close shots/speed were much of a priority. if those shots are the biggest priority, then you need an aimpoint.

if you want something functional close up but a compromise, go for a 1-4.

That may be true for you and your shooting but it's not true for everyone.

It's a training issue, not an equipment issue.

 

[Mike Shoots Stuff]

I have a Recce 16 upper as well. I went with the Army ACOG. The M150. Do able at close and mid ranges and built like a tank. Look around on some forums and see if you can find one in the classifieds. You can get a couple hundred under a grand if you look around. I got this one for $850 and it's practically new.

 

[Saluki2003]

I ended up getting the Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10x44. Its the EBR-1 (MOA) Reticle with SFP and uncapped turrets. What do you guys think?

I'm just waiting for my 10 days so I can pick up my lower and start putting this rifle together!!!

 

[earthtrekker1775]

I ended up getting the Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10x44. Its the EBR-1 (MOA) Reticle with SFP and uncapped turrets. What do you guys think?

I'm just waiting for my 10 days so I can pick up my lower and start putting this rifle together!!!

Great scope for the money. I think you will be pleased. I really like my 4-16X50 and I have a 1-4 on the way from the guys at Sport Optics. I prefer Mil/Mil personally but shoot what you know and shoot it often. Have fun.