Gunsmithing Our lathe adventures.

[D Miller]

The lathe adventures.

Most of this is already in the ongoing LR thread on a local forum.

<span style="font-weight: bold">
Special thanks to Shiraz at Grizzly.com.</span>

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Gunsmith-s-Bench-Top-Lathe-with-Stand/G4003G

It was the stand out for entry level lathes in our bid to become more self sufficient. Obviously a Bridgeport or Southbend would be ideal but the extreme cost of their equipment eliminated them at this time. Las Vegas' lack of gunsmiths that can/will accommodate precision rifles with less than 6mo turn around time was a driving force behind our decision to learn.

We all have put in a great deal of time, effort and expense in to our shooting and competing but it appears to be paying off. Hopefully this new gunsmithing/rifle building endeavor will be just as fun and rewarding. After months of reading, watching you tube vids and picking the brains of the experienced, its now time to practice hands on with steel stock and re-learn the machine. It will be a while before any of us even get close to building a rifle but that day is now one step closer.

Toubalcain's videos have been a great help along with STR's gunsmithing vids

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrDr4rYLiAk&feature=player_embedded

Looking forward to pizza, beer and many afternoons spent in the 110F garage working on new projects.

Even though its one of the smaller lathes out there it still weighs in around 1500lbs. I think every one should have a crane... or at least have a friend with one :thumbup1:

 

[D Miller]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

Moving the lathe using 2 car casters and straps to help secure it on its short move.

 

[D Miller]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

Threading a piece of stainless stock for a muzzle break.

Bill(Hognuts), Joe(JFComfort) and I spent a few hours in the garage with the lathe this afternoon. We finally got it leveled and made sure the ways were parallel to each other. The centers lined up as well as anyone could ask from the factory.

Once we finished that we gave a shot at threading our simulated barrel for a break. It took about 2 hours for us to get the stock as true as we could going off the OD of the stock. Then we turned it down to a smaller diameter than the break calls for to account for growth while threading. Watching the threading dial and starting at the exact same point produced some fine threads.


Next time we will do it all over again then practice clocking the break...

<span style="font-weight: bold">A special thanks to NYECO(Steve) for answering my endless barrage of questions and inviting us out to spend the better part of a day in his shop
</span>

*This is 2 weeks progression form time of lathe arrival to now.*

 

[Ritten]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

Nice! I'm jealous. Mine was delivered early, but I'm still having to wait till mid-August to power it up since the VFD I ordered is backordered!

 

[JFComfort]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

We have been having a lot of fun learning and getting things figured out. I'm looking forward to being able to keep up our match rifles and eventually put together new ones! I have a NIB Rem 700 SA that I would eventually like to make a back up match rifle out of and mount a USO SN-3 ERGO to it.

It will be awhile but I'm enjoying the journey.

 

[Clark]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

I paid $50 for delivery from Seattle to Mercer Island of a Clausing 5914 lathe, about 1200 pounds.


It was put on the high flat bed truck with a crane, but I my house there was no crane.

The guy with the flatbed, Slid it down boards from the flatbed to the driveway in the rain. I was certain it would fall over and was just concerned no one got killed.

But it did not fall over, and years later when I sold it, the guy came with a low flat bed and a crane.

I am now paranoid about lathes falling over, and put wide bases under them.

 

[dmg308]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

Nice I've been working on a 0509g for a few years and been very happy with it.

 

[STR]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

Nice job guys.

 

[JFComfort]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

Now were getting dangerous. We have our threading figured out and are working on properly clocking muzzle brakes. D.Miller has more tooling coming in and were getting close to having what we need to properly do barrels. We have a lot of practice ahead of us but I think we both surprised ourselves last night cutting on a take of Rem SPS barrel. (seemed really soft)

Were getting better at getting things nice and straight in the 4 jaw chuck. We have been enjoying getting things figured out. Time to do some shooting this weekend because we have been getting distracted with the lathe! (its a good distraction)

I have some pictures I'll post up when I get home this evening.

 

[JFComfort]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

 

[D Miller]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

Spent some more time out in the garage today with the lathe.

Starting out with 1 3/8" steel stock. A very close representation of Bills rifle barrel.

Turning it down to the required diameter to thread 16TPI for a remmy 700 action

Joe taking his turn on the lathe

Wow! it fit and first try at that.

Joe with the next thing to sweep the bolt gun world, an integral suppressed SBR'd rem 700... Or just an action with a chuck of steel stock threaded in. The remmy700 tire thumper.

 

[nashlaw]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

You gents are having waaay too much fun!

 

[hdbiker1]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

Have you started on an action truing fixture yet?

 

[D Miller]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hdbiker1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you started on an action truing fixture yet? </div></div>

Not yet. Im finding the tooling is going to cost twice or more what the late did. I was looking at some heavy wall alumnium piping the other day but they wanted way too much for the scrap piece. We will be there in the near future but focusing on just the barrels first.

 

[2156SMK]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D. Miller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im finding the tooling is going to cost twice or more what the lathe did.</div></div>

You will keep finding that out for the rest of your life...

 

[JFComfort]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2156SMK</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D. Miller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im finding the tooling is going to cost twice or more what the lathe did.</div></div>

You will keep finding that out for the rest of your life... </div></div>

Someday we'll almost have everything we need! lol

 

[SONIC SAAMI]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

And set up takes more time than anything

 

[WhiteDingo]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D. Miller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hdbiker1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you started on an action truing fixture yet? </div></div>

Not yet. Im finding the tooling is going to cost twice or more what the late did. I was looking at some heavy wall alumnium piping the other day but they wanted way too much for the scrap piece. We will be there in the near future but focusing on just the barrels first. </div></div>

You can get a 12" piece of .250" wall, 2" OD 6061 aluminum tubing from Speedy Metals for about $9 (or DOM steel tube for $20ish). Just a thought

Looks like you're well on your way to putting some guns together.

 

[JFComfort]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

After learning how to use the lathe and a lot of practice with facing, turning down, threading and chasing threads Dane and I are going to finnaly give it a go and attempt to rebarrel his custom Stiller Tac-30 match rifle. I've been making notes and getting everything down on paper before we actually get started on the lathe (Rogue308 has been giving me a hard time about my hand writing). The replacment barrel is a Rock Creek 6.5mm 5R 1-8" twist SS match.

I'll keep you guys updated on how it goes, I'll try and remember to take some pictures too.

 

[JFComfort]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

So we started working on re-barreling Dane's match rifle. We wrote everything out before we touched anything. We have the tooling we need and its just a matter of getting the proper measurements and doing the deed!

Today we got side tracked with the Jeep but were able to get the barrel set up in the lathe. It took us a bit but we were able to get the axis of the bore lined up 0.0005" within being perfectly straight. It was getting late so we left the barrel in the lathe. Tomorrow we plan on pulling his old tube and getting the measurements we need from the bolt and action. Once we have those we can get started on cutting the tenon, recess and chamber!

 

[SONIC SAAMI]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

I'm sure have it from Jerrys site but I'll post it anyway
http://viperactions.com/files/predator_tenon.pdf

 

[JFComfort]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DaveD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm sure have it from Jerrys site but I'll post it anyway
http://viperactions.com/files/predator_tenon.pdf </div></div>

Good looking out Dave!

 

[Immorteq]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

Fun pics. Not nearly enough fluid usage being depicted in those shots tho

 

[STR]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

Sometimes dry is ok, and less messy.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

Is that the angle you had the compound at when threading?

Doesnt look right in the pic. But maybe its just the pic

 

[JFComfort]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

Nah we move it to 29.5 degrees and square up the tool holder with a fish tail. Early on Dane and I did have some threading goof ups but hit the books and figured it out.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

Kool.

30* off X axis right?

Not 30* off Z.

In the pic with the bar in the action, it looks like the compound is at 30* off Z.(EDITEDic shown in next post)


People sometimes goof that up. They set it to "30*"(or 29.5) but it should actually be set to 60* because "0" is parallel to Z on the compound. Not X.


Did you attach that light or did it come with it there?
We need more lighting around our lathe. I want to buy some lights like that and either use a strong magnet to hold it on, or I'll just clamp it down. I want them to be moveable.

Ah, I see it came with the lathe. I need a light like that. Battery powered would be awesome!

 

[SONIC SAAMI]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

This picture cracks me up.
You look like a brand new daddy with his first born child.

 

[D Miller]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

Thanks Dave. I found one like it for a standard remmy but nice to have the specs for the exact action we dealing with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y0MmvscBzg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-bTfflIPlc
This guys video series has been a tremendous help in speeding up the learning curve and skipping some newbie mistakes.

Keith

Yes. 29.5 off the X. Ill admit we botched several earlier attempts on scrap steel stock. All practice cuts were dry but there will be plenty of oil on the real deal.

I also have a 400w metal halide light that i may use once it gets below 115f in the garage but any more heat will kill us during the summer.

We will keep ya posted.

 

[JFComfort]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

The STR video's have been extremely helpful as well!

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

Know what ya mean about the heat, trust me.

 

[JFComfort]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DaveD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This picture cracks me up.
You look like a brand new daddy with his first born child.

</div></div>

Haha! I was just happy everything came together correctly! Now that we have an actual barrel chucked up in there we will be taking our time, measuring 5-6 times before we cut! lol

 

[D Miller]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JFComfort</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The STR video's have been extremely helpful as well! </div></div>
defiantly! Ive watched his series at least 2 full times and certain videos 5 times.

 

[STR]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

Thanks!!!! Hope to make more once I'm reset up at home in the garage. Moving a pro shop into the garage is a challenge. You guys are doing a fine job. Best of luck on that first one.

 

[redirt78]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JFComfort</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It took us a bit but we were able to get the axis of the bore lined up 0.0005" within being perfectly straight. It was getting late so we left the barrel in the lathe. </div></div>

In one of the threads on a similar subject here on the Hide the gunsmith said to re check all settings/tolerances after things sat overnight. For the life of me I can't remember exactly what he was referencing but had something to do with the difference of the machines bearings/surfaces having oil on them and the lack of oil after sitting overnight. Wish I knew what I was talking about but just a heads up in case I'm not too far off.

Cool thread and good luck.

 

[redirt78]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

I went back and looked at some of my first posts and I'll be damned, I think it was an STR video on truing actions.

 

[JFComfort]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redirt78</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JFComfort</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It took us a bit but we were able to get the axis of the bore lined up 0.0005" within being perfectly straight. It was getting late so we left the barrel in the lathe. </div></div>

In one of the threads on a similar subject here on the Hide the gunsmith said to re check all settings/tolerances after things sat overnight. For the life of me I can't remember exactly what he was referencing but had something to do with the difference of the machines bearings/surfaces having oil on them and the lack of oil after sitting overnight. Wish I knew what I was talking about but just a heads up in case I'm not too far off.

Cool thread and good luck. </div></div>

Thank you for the heads up! I'll check it when I get to Dane's after work. Before we start cutting we will be sure to check it again just to be safe!

 

[STR]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

redirt78, I could be mistaken, but that thread about machines being off over night, and oil running out, plus metal changing due to shop temps was written by Chad Dixon. Another one of your very good and well known smiths here on the Hide.

 

[D Miller]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">redirt78, I could be mistaken, but that thread about machines being off over night, and oil running out, plus metal changing due to shop temps was written by Chad Dixon. Another one of your very good and well known smiths here on the Hide. </div></div>


THanks

This is now the 3rd time i have heard this. The barrel will be double and triple checked before the cutting bit even moves near it.

 

[JFComfort]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

You guys were exactly right! We went back, started turning things and found we had gained 0.0005" at the tip of the bore rod and 0.001" near the barrel bore. I got it dialed back into 0.0005" of run out just for the practice.

 

[duke54]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

When running CNC machines I always ran a little progam i made whereas it cycled the tool changer, ran up and down different speeds and moved all the axis for about 30 min before retutning to the program i was using and job i was running.

 

[300sniper]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JFComfort</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You guys were exactly right! We went back, started turning things and found we had gained 0.0005" at the tip of the bore rod and 0.001" near the barrel bore. I got it dialed back into 0.0005" of run out just for the practice. </div></div>



i'd recommend running your spindle at a medium rpm for 10 minutes or so before you dial your first part in for the day to warm it up. i don't bother moving any of the axises. a lathe is not the same as a vertical cnc machine center. you don't have a several hundred pound head being suspended with gravity trying to pull it away from the ways.

that said, my guess is your change in runout had nothing to do with the lathe temperature or oil on the bearings and most likely it is because of the range rod technique you are using. i bet if you dial in the bore dead nuts, remove the rod and reinsert it, you will have runout. it's not a perfect technique but for now, it's the one i use and i'b getting satisfactory results. i am planning on trying the "gordy gritters" technique soon. it makes more sense to me.

 

[redirt78]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">redirt78, I could be mistaken, but that thread about machines being off over night, and oil running out, plus metal changing due to shop temps was written by Chad Dixon. Another one of your very good and well known smiths here on the Hide. </div></div>Aw damn, that sounds right. My memory is still what it always has been... a little fuzzy haha. Got the point across though I guess, thanks man.

Hey <span style="color: #990000">lathe adventure guys</span>, pm sent with a link to some stuff I think you might want.

 

[lvcatfish]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

Ditto on the range rod insertion repeatability comments above. Inserting the rod and locking it off consistently is an acquired skill much like trigger pulling. Practice does help. You should not be jamming the rod in there and make sure to lock it off lightly. And in case you hadn't heard always clean the bore prior to inserting the rod. A light chamfer on the bore is also a good idea to remove any boogers prior to rod insertion. All of these things can add up, think tolerance stacking; range rods, barrel bores, test indicators, spindle bearings all have tolerances. Just even trying to do a good job should get good results.

Also note that bore dimensions change (i.e. the bushing on your range rod might be different than the bushing on your reamer pilot especially if you pre-bore the chamber first). Just decide to pucker up and do it. Good Luck guys!

P.S. if your first barrel shoots better than mine did then I might have to sabotage your lead screw...

 

[JFComfort]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

Haha! Were on hold waiting for a .264 pilot counter bore. Were going to take our time and do the best job we possibly can. I hope it shoots just like when Dane got the barreled action from Stiller.

Either way we have been enjoying the learning process and look forward to getting things figured out. Looking forward to the local match starting up again, hopefully my barrel doesn't go before then! lol

Heading down to Phoenix to shoot a match, any other LV guys heading down? I think So Cal PRC is going to have Dane and I out numbered.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

Next Saturday? See you there hopefully.


Just single point the counterbore.

 

[Trapshooter12]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redirt78</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">redirt78, I could be mistaken, but that thread about machines being off over night, and oil running out, plus metal changing due to shop temps was written by Chad Dixon. Another one of your very good and well known smiths here on the Hide. </div></div>Aw damn, that sounds right. My memory is still what it always has been... a little fuzzy haha. Got the point across though I guess, thanks man.

Hey <span style="color: #990000">lathe adventure guys</span>, pm sent with a link to some stuff I think you might want. </div></div>

I was going to mention something like this. I will add this. This is not necessary on a quick job, but if it is one that is not going to be finished before you quit for the day. You will need to store all of your parts in the same room as the machine that is doing the work. This way everything is at the same ambient temperature.

I learned a lesson on this 10 years ago.
I am just a dumbass IronWorker and we were moving and setting some heavy machinery. The base had been sitting in the building for a few days.

We moved the top in from outside one after noon and tried to fit it up and the pivot pins wouldn't slide in. Those of us that were working on it thought that there was a major screw up. The Boss told us just to put it down and go home since it was the end of the day. We came back the next morning and everything fit like a glove. The Boss knew that everything had to be at the same temp, but he didn't tell us dumbasses that.

 

[JFComfort]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

We really appreciate your guys help and in put!

 

[D Miller]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Keith at PCR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Just single point the counterbore. </div></div>

We thought about it and were considering just doing it...but

Both Joe and I have no formal training at this and are learning as we go. At this point its keep it simple as possible and try to eliminate as much human factor as possible.

PTG had one in stock so hopefully it will be here early next week.

 

[2156SMK]

Re: Our lathe adventures.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D. Miller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Keith at PCR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Just single point the counterbore. </div></div>

We thought about it and were considering just doing it...but

Both Joe and I have no formal training at this and are learning as we go. At this point its keep it simple as possible and try to eliminate as much human factor as possible.

PTG had one in stock so hopefully it will be here early next week. </div></div>

Now you're becoming spoiled...
I single pointed about 15-20 bolt nose counterbores before I bought the ptg tools.