Penrod B-14R is back

[Kisssofdeath]

After less than 2 months I got my Penrod rebarreled B-14R back. The work visually is excellent with the barrel/nut/receiver connection looking very nice. The barrel is a 4 groove Shilen Ratchet. It ended up being exactly 24.5" long with a straight blank at .920 OD. Of course it was slugged to find the tightest spot.

I added a Harrell tuner to the package. Never used a tuner before so that will be interesting. I'll start out without the tuner to try and establish a baseline then go from there. Since the Shilen is button rifled I elected to not have the barrel threaded for a suppressor.

It's been windy here but today I will get it out and at least put some rounds through it. Not much else to say except the ratchet rifling looks really weird. Please don't ask about the cost as I won't discuss that.

The below photos were sent to me by Mark. I'll have more up later on.

 

[IamJoHo]

Looks good. Waiting to see how it does.

And the wind. Shot my first match yesterday. We are in Ohio and the wind was crazy and then started snowing. Im happy I was able to get any hits.

 

[nesikabay]

If Penrod built it it will shoot. He is one of the best. Cant wait to see how it shoots. What reamer did he use

 

[nesikabay]

Did he do any bolt or firing pin work

 

[littlepod]

How many ft/lbs do you torque that barrel down to the action? I'm guessing it has to be pretty precise to get the extraction cuts to line up perfectly.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

IamJoHo, thanks. I shot 450 rounds through it today. Haven't tallied anything up yet

nesikabay, he used his reamer he said. Funny you ask about the bolt and firing pin. Supposedly the receiver/bolt didn't need any work, he was really impressed with the tolerances and fit. Having said that I started getting light primer strikes for some reason. never happened before. I switched bolts and it stopped. Then I started having issues with the Elftmann trigger set screw getting too loose causing AD's and inconsistent trigger pulls. I believe the true accuracy is a lot better than what the targets show.

littlepod, not sure what the torque setting is, never asked about it.

I'll post some targets later on after I get everything measured up.

 

[allan harris]

KOD...Pleased to see the B14R back home again...Judging by your pics, I'd say Mr. Penrod is a good machinist...Beautiful work.
I'm sure that once you have everything adjusted properly, it will shoot well.
Do you know if it has been head spaced for any particular ammo?

 

[Tomiboy]

Can't wait to see how this shoots!

 

[AGrizz]

In case you wish to try shim kits in the bolt for the b14r they are available from www.triggershims.com, www.michigancenteroutdoors.com

 

[Kisssofdeath]

Sorry for the late reply but I wanted to have everything in order before posting.

I talked with Mark about the bolt, firing pin, trigger and headspace. He said he checked the bolt and there wasn't anything needed to be done. "Maybe that's one reason he was impressed with the B-14R, excluding this particular barrel". He said he didn't take the bolt apart nor did he touch the trigger. He said he set the headspace at .044", he didn't say why nor did I ask him why. The two Eley plates were shot with this .044" headspace. The rest were shot with a headspace estimated to be .048" and I will explain that later.

First off I decided to put the Penrod B-14R (now recognized as PB-14R) in the MDT XRS chassis and put the B-14R with CF barrel in the Bergara HMR stock for a totally stock gun and a more custom look for the PB-14R. All groups were shot without knowing the headspace.

These first two Eley targets were shot the original bolt and .044" headspace. For novice readers or just FYI, headspace is generally set at .043" with a headspace gauge unless you are setting headspace to a specific brand rim thickness.

Part way through the first target I started getting light primer strikes and that's exactly what it was because after the first two I started looking at the rim when one didn't fire. I would rotate the rim and it would fire on the second try. I didn't keep count but this happened several times and never happened before with this ammo or rifle. Groups were not very good and not what I had expected.

After the two Eley plates were shot I remembered the B-14R CF and started using the bolt from it to try and eliminate the light primer strikes. This is where the .048" headspace comes into play. Even with the increased headspace the light primer strikes when away. The rest of the targets were unknowingly shot with this headspace. I don't remember when but at some point the trigger adjustment set screw backed off and started causing an inconsistent trigger pull. I did have a few AD's that are not identified because I really hate making excuses. In my stubbornness I shot more than I should before addressing the issue.

Since I can only post 10 photos I will leave you with these two and create another post that follows up with the headspace issue.

Shown with Harrell tuner. Have not shot with the tuner, for now I'm trying to establish a baseline.

 

[Triple D]

So, are you happy with the results?

 

[littlepod]

Swap the firing pin spring from the original bolt, and shoot SK/Lapua ammo?

 

[Kisssofdeath]

After talking with Mark about the headspace I decided to use my gauge and check headspace with the original bolt "with red knob". Sure enough the bolt closed easily as if closing on an empty chamber. This is one reason I learned that checking with a live round is rather misleading because you will encounter resistance when the bullet engages the rifling. So on a match grade chamber is the resistance you are feeling rifling induced or headspace induced??

Headspace tool used. It's made by Forster and is classified as a Go Gauge.

I do have the shim kit for the B-14R and decided to make a jump on it and installed the .003" "blue stripe shim". This should bring the headspace down to at least .042-.041"" which is a little tight. Closing the bolt after headspace adjustment proved that, it was significantly harder to close but didn't have to be forced. I think I'm all set on the headspace. Out of curiosity I did check the CF barreled action. The bolt handle would close on the Go Gauge. After I installed the .002" shim the bolt handle would not close down on the GO Gauge. It would be nice to have a .001" shim to try.

The bolt can be disassembled by inserting something in the through hole as shown below to the far right in the bolt shroud. This will hold the spring while you twist off the bolt shroud. Nothing else needs to be done to do this. You remove the bolt, insert something to hold the spring pressure and twist off the shroud counter clockwise as normal. See below for removal of the firing pin and gaining access to the headspace shim.

Remove the roll pin at this location to get the firing pin out and measure your factory headspace shim. This is easily remove and installed. Firing pin spring will not "fly" out.

In taking the bolt apart I noticed a significant amount of oil build up around the entire inside of the bolt. I removed everything and cleaned thoroughly. This bolt "with red knob" has approximately 7,000 to 8,000 rounds on it. 5,400 can be verified by counting my saved target plates. There is a difference the the larger springs on both bolts. Firing pins measured the same length. Firing pin springs looked the same. After adjusting the headspace and next time I shoot, if I have ignition issues I'll just swap out the bolt shrouds and see if the newer spring has an impact on primer strike.

After the roll pin is removed as shown in the above photo you can get to the factory shim. Shown below is the factory shim plus the .003" blue stripe shim from the kit.

Not all B-14R's are created equal. Here's the shim measurements from both mine. Use the bolt knobs behind the calipers for reference as to which shim comes from which bolt.

I believe I'm now headspace optimized to reshoot for groups. At least I'm better off than before and could possibly explain the lack of accuracy expected from the Shilen barrel along with inconsistent primer ignition on the Eley targets.

In addressing the trigger issue I readjusted both and the following are the results. Both are Elftmann R700 triggers. Both feel exactly the same with one being a little heavier. Both measurements are an average of 5 pulls.

Hope this helps or enlightens someone. I look forward to shooting more as time permits. I have a lot of confidence in Shilen and Penrod's work. If someone decides to go down this road Mark Penrod can be reached at [email protected] or [email protected] or by calling (260) 982-8385.

Please don't ask about my cost for this rebarrel. Any price inquiries should be taken up with Mark. BTW, I did not receive any special pricing. Mark knows now but in the beginning I did not disclose I was a member here and would report on the results. As always with any review/update I report the bad with the good.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

So, are you happy with the results?

No.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

Swap the firing pin spring from the original bolt, and shoot SK/Lapua ammo?

In this case, I don't think the actual firing pin is the issue.

 

[nesikabay]

One question . But first i have a couple of Penrol built 22s. mine all shoot great. Do you think you are they should have work on the firing pin and bolt. From what you have posted it sounds like your ftf problems need to be fix. I have never had a gun built by Penrod that had issues

 

[Kisssofdeath]

The only thing Mark did was replace the barrel and make the bushing. According to Mark there was no need to work on the bolt. He did say he noticed like primer strikes when he inspected the cases but they all fired. He also said that Eley was having issues with some types of ammo. I don't believe Mark's work had anything to do with the misfire issues, it would have happened anyway. Mark only test for function and not accuracy.

 

[grauhanen]

I seemed to have overlooked the explanation of how the CF barrels bolt has .048" headspacing.

Two headspace gauges -- Go and No Go gauges -- give a more complete picture of a rifle's headspace. A Go Gauge will allow a bolt to close with a safe headspace. A No Go Gauge will not allow the bolt to close if there's excessive headspace.

Headspace that is one one-thousandths of an inch different than .043" is unlikely to cause significant accuracy issues. On the other hand, consistent ignition is required for consistent accuracy.

Another factor in accuracy worth keeping in mind is lot variation. Different lots of the same make and variety of ammo (e.g. Center X) can produce different results from the same rifle.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

I seemed to have overlooked the explanation of how the CF barrels bolt has .048" headspacing.

The difference in the factory shims are .004". That's .063" minus .059" which would equal .004" With the .063" shim the headspace was set at .044" according to Mark Penrod. By using the bolt from the CF barreled rifle the headspace was increased by that .004" making the total headspace .048".

The larger the shim the less headspace you have. Hope this helps.

BTW, didn't shoot the PB-14R today, instead played with the Grand Power Stribog.

 

[ta6ppc]

I’d be interested in serial BR card shot to see the total score

 

[Kisssofdeath]

I’d be interested in serial BR card shot to see the total score

?

 

[nesikabay]

The only thing Mark did was replace the barrel and make the bushing. According to Mark there was no need to work on the bolt. He did say he noticed like primer strikes when he inspected the cases but they all fired. He also said that Eley was having issues with some types of ammo. I don't believe Mark's work had anything to do with the misfire issues, it would have happened anyway. Mark only test for function and not accuracy.

Im not saying Mark was wrong. He is one of the best rimfire smiths there is. And i will send him more work. But i could be wrong but it looks like you have a bolt or trigger issue. I have a Vudoo with a Jewell trigger that had problems. My fix was to make to outside housing thinner and its fine now

 

[nesikabay]

I am more likley wrong but it looks like you have a tight fitting trigger. Its not allowing the the bolt and firing pin to work as it should

 

[ta6ppc]

?

ARA Targets

The official Target of the New Factory Class of American Rimfire Association, Inc. 25 Bulls and numerous sighters. Sold in packs of 100.

www.killoughshootingsports.com

Something like this target see what it scores consistently

 

[Kisssofdeath]

I have IR 50/50 targets, I'll shoot those. I got the Elftmann R700 changed out to the Bix TacSport Pro. I might be able to shoot tomorrow.

 

[Parkerized]

I have a Vudoo with a Jewell trigger that had problems. My fix was to make to outside housing thinner and its fine now

What was your specific problem with the Jewell trigger? How did you go about thinning the housing? I have one in a B-14r that makes the bolt drag and makes it almost unusable once cocked, as in cycling out an unfired round. I'm looking for any lead to get it sorted, tight trigger, sear height, etc.
Thanks

 

[Kisssofdeath]

PB-14R update, I'm still experimenting. Moved on to using the Harrell Tuner. Not my normal test procedure but here's a sample with various ammo. Harrell Tuner is set 3 turns out from zero on 75. This was shot with the original bolt, Bix & Andy TacSport Pro in the MDT XRS chassis. Shot off bipod/sandbag combo. All ammo was shot back to back, left to right and top to bottom. Headspace was not changed, still have the .003" shim in place.

 

[Tomiboy]

Your Pistol King comes through again!

 

[ta6ppc]

Looking really promising

 

[Kisssofdeath]

Yeah, it's an extremely small sample. Hopefully by the weekend I know something more definite.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

Minor update. Not shooting as much on the bench lately. Now that Thanksgiving has passed I will try to get on the bench more. Letting everyone know "like people give a shit" LOL that the Penrod is not dead.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

Long overdue but here is what is happening with the PB-14R. So far my technique is shoot three 5-shot groups. Also for now I have settled on 75 for the tuner setting.

Cleaning. In the past I have had the mindset to only clean a barrel when it "tells" me to. Mark Penrod takes a different approach and cleans between 75 and 100 rounds. His cleaning method IIRC is one wet patch, one stroke "back and forth" with a brush, a wet patch and two dry patches and that's it. We have to keep in mind he is talking about his BR rifle. Having said all this I have not cleaned mine since when I first got it back and that was only a dry patch. I plan on cleaning it per his recommendation and try to get on a schedule. But I admit, it's hard to break old habits.

Headspace. Headspace hasn't changed, same as above.

Trigger. Trigger is still the B&A.

Misfires. Misfires or light strikes have disappeared. I'm also using the original bolt, firing pin and spring. Since changing out the trigger and resetting the headspace all ignition issue are gone.

On with the groups. I started out with the Lapua ammo but it didn't shoot well enough to complete. Next time out I'll shoot CCI SV to start with before going to the test ammo.

These were shot on 11/22. I had actually forgotten about this because of the Thanksgiving holiday coming up but here it is. Nothing really notable about this session. Good weather, light wind, no mirage, shot off bipod and sandbags. Keep in mind, I am never ever 100% steady shooting from this table but it's all I have for now.

I didn't calculate a total average but should have, didn't think about it. I didn't make notes on the plates but my subtraction value for the bullet diameter is .221".

Here is what I shot yesterday. Yesterday was cold, in the low to mid 40's. Slight breeze nothing major. Oddly there was a noticeable mirage. trigger finger almost numb. This time I summed up the average for each ammo on these plates.

The total average for all 45 shots are .325" or .303".

The total average for all 45 shots on this plate are .395" or .314".

As can be seen it shoots everything pretty good...to me that is. Some of the shots are questionable on my part. that's where the "OR" comes in to play when reading the measurements. Eighteen 5-shot groups averaged out to .360" or .308". I'm going to start shooting my IR 50/50 targets to see what I can get. Worth noting, on the first group with the Fed ammo, I'm not 100% sure the low shot was the first shot. That's why I didn't identify it like I did with the RWS Special Match.

I did use my chronograph and will post those number shortly.

Also, this tuner stuff is new to me. If anyone has suggestions or advice please share your knowledge.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

Got a few more things to share. After approximately 1,300 rounds fired I cleaned the barrel and the tuner. Tuner had approximately 250 rounds through it. My cleaning method was exactly 2 wet patches, two strokes "down only, did not pull back through", 1 wet patch and 2 dry patches. The first photo below is what the wet patch looked like after the brush. I have never had a patch come out that clean after using a brush. Granted I only made 2 passes with the brush but still I'd expect it to be dirtier than that. Carbon ring was barely visible after cleaning.

Crown after removing the tuner.

Tuner before and after cleaning.

Making it shine. I believe it will shoot better after a good Blue Magic polish job.

Found this stuff on my shelf, forgot I had it. Trying it out for the first time on the bolt.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

Last post for the night. Here are the chronograph results including the Lapua Center-X, Pistol King and Eley Edge. I don't know what happened to those but they didn't shoot near as well as before. The spread is really huge as compared to all the SK and RWS. You may have to click on the attachment to get a better view.

Eley Edge

Lapua Pistol King

Lapua Center-X

Federal Gold Medal Match

RWS Special Match

RWS R50 sc

SK Biathlon Sport

SK Flatnose Match

SK Rifle Match

 

[grapo]

Those are some nice groups. Glad its shooting well for you. Thanks for the updates.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

Those are some nice groups. Glad its shooting well for you. Thanks for the updates.

You're welcome. Just sharing information on a hobby we all like.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

Shot my first two IR 50/50 targets today with the PB-14R. One this morning but the wind was gusty and I had a really bad mirage. I only scored a 239 with 6X on it. The second one was shot around 4:30 and the wind had stopped and mirage was gone. Shot a 245 with 8X. Was using SK Rifle Match. I know it's not competitive yet but I'm just getting started. It's much better than when I first started shooting it. Pretty happy so far.

Glad I bought the scoring gage awhile back. It is really helpful, without I may not have scored this one a 10.

 

[Doctorwho1138]

That rifle looks like a real shooter. I would be more than happy with those results. Also interested in hearing replies about using a tuner. Nice shooting!!

 

[Kisssofdeath]

That rifle looks like a real shooter. I would be more than happy with those results. Also interested in hearing replies about using a tuner. Nice shooting!!

Thanks.

Using a tuner is completely new to me. I started using it as directed by Penrod by turning out one complete turn (25 clicks) and shooting. Three complete revolutions and I'm on a setting of 75 and have not went any further.

With the exception of the 6th shot on the IR target above all my 10 ring misses were either high or low. Since the tuner's job is to reduce the vertical spread I may find a better setting than 75.

I should note that the barrel did not shoot all that good without the tuner.

 

[smelv]

G'day Kod, i totally agree with agree with the way you are going about this . You will not find a lot of people that will comment on tuners (muzzle devices)Keep going out as there is a tune not far away.I shoot an ANSCHUTZ 54.30, my tune is 125 and has not been changed for 2 years. Head space .I have a .004 washer in the bolt for eley match/ .002 for lapua. I do grade my ammo by ogive length. Cleaning is almost the same as Mark advises ( Ibought this rifle as a barrelled action in 2016 and have only used bristle brushes in it. Trigger timing is another issue which is easy solved to create easy bolt closing. Scott

 

[Kisssofdeath]

Thanks for the feedback. So 125 setting for you works best with any ammo?

 

[smelv]

Not any ammo, tuned for eley match 1065/1067 f/sec.I do use sk rifle match for practice 1066 f/sec . I have a good amount of both these brands. With the fine barrel you have on that rifle i would use the most constant brand you have and then fine tune for it. (Barrels /Tuners /Ammo) that"s why i have no hair on my head lol.Scott.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

No hair is understandable for sure, I'm just getting my feet wet and 247 hairs fell out already.

Makes sense on the FPS velocity. That's exactly the same thing I was thinking and why I took the chronograph readings like I did. Normally in the past I'd never spend time with chrono readings with a rimfire unless I was testing to see the difference in velocity with different barrel lengths.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

smelv,

Do you see a change when you remove the tuner for cleaning? Do you always insert on the barrel in the same orientation every time or does that matter? I currently have 3 barrels this one tuner will fit, possibly two more that I haven't checked.

 

[smelv]

KOD, no changes, remove my tuner after each outing 75/ 80 shots as it will not fit in the safe attached. I have a mark on the barrel and a punch marks on the tuner screws that i line up every time . I clean my tuner with BRAKE CLEANER,used bedsheet around 1/2 inch water pipe tucked in the ends and polish with TURTLE WAX CAR polish. Works for me. BTW i'm from Bundaberg ,Queensland.Australia.Scott.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

Shot another IR50/50 target a few days back. I was trying different settings and had the tuner on 1.00 or 100 or simply 4 revolutions out. I shot the first row at that setting before I realized it needed to be on 75 or 3 revolutions out. I dropped 6 points and 3 was in the first 5 shots. So I come out with a 244 with 9X. Used the same SK Rifle Match. Didn't take any sighters and didn't adjust the scope. Shot #11 was almost a 10 but with the scoring gauge inserted the line wasn't broke.

 

[JohnTheFisherman]

Did you use a plug? You’ve got a few close calls on there that could be flipped in the bergara’ favor if you haven’t used one yet.

 

[Tomiboy]

Very nice KoD!

 

[CodeMonkey]

I've noticed that my B14R has a lot of cock-on-close and it makes closing the bolt less smooth than my centerfire B14. I womnder if it's something inherent to the function of this design. Does yours have exhibit cock-on-close?

 

[Kisssofdeath]

I do use a plug, check out post #37.

Thanks Tomiboy.

CodeMonkey, both mine cock on open. Both are easy. Only issue I ever had was with a Trigger Tech Diamond and it was probably just a fluke.