Perfect Rifle For PRS

[t-payne]

If you could build the perfect rifle strictly for shooting the PRS matches, what would you build? Barrel contour, stock/chassis, trigger, scope, rings, ect....

 

[Lowlight]

Already been spec'd by Team GAP...

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...39-new-gap-bravo-6-delta-ships-out-today.html

 

[308sniper147]

24" 6.5creed m40 contour, rock solid chassis, maybe a timney trigger(as long as the trigger goes down to 2.5-2.75lbs I don't mind). So I normally leave the trigger stock but that is not what most people will do, a good quality 3-15 power scope is always good(nightforce, Stiener, vortex, S&B any of those), seekins 4&6 screw rings, seekins or badger one piece 20 moa scope rail. That's just me, and the system I am going to be running in my comps minus the caliber(my local comps only go to 200 yards so I just use my .308 with 175 smk's but I'm also looking into 155gr lapua senars).

That's just my two cents. I personally think that PRS rifle preferences are too individualistic to have one "perfect" PRS rifle, but that's just me.

Hope my post helps,
Andrew

 

[Hunt4life]

.243, 24" light varmint/Palma contour, xlr carbon fibre chassis, night force 3-15 mlr, titanium 700 clone custom action, timney trigger set to 1.5 pounds. Ultimate goal would be for something light as the matches are using more physical drills and iron man type competition. No brake, as compact a scope as you can get,every thing would be light.

.243 or any 6mm because of the edge. Order two- three barrels so that is not a concern and rock and roll.

 

[poison123]

Just rock what you won the Mammoth Sniper Competition with.

 

[Trevor300wsm]

6mm (pick one)
Bartlein M40/M24 contour at 24"
Brake (brand of choice)
Jewel or Timney
Rock Solid Chassis (yeah, as good as it gets)
Razor/NF/S&B/March
Harris bipod (sorry, Atlas loses its edge in PRS)
TAB Sling (RAS is great)

As for that Team Gap Spec'd rifle.....I don't recall any Team Gap guys shooting that config.

 

[poison123]

6mm (pick one)
Bartlein M40/M24 contour at 24"
Brake (brand of choice)
Jewel or Timney
Rock Solid Chassis (yeah, as good as it gets)
Razor/NF/S&B/March
Harris bipod (sorry, Atlas loses its edge in PRS)
TAB Sling (RAS is great)

As for that Team Gap Spec'd rifle.....I don't recall any Team Gap guys shooting that config.

George and Bmorgan both shoot rifles similar in spec to that.

 

[turbo54]

The B6D is pretty close, some close variant is pretty much ideal:

Quality action of your choice
24-26" RemVar(ish) barrel from a premium manufacturer
6mm chambering of your choice that fits in AIAW magazines, run the 105 hybrid @ 3100+, and won't make you cry when you lose some brass.
Brake is pretty much unnecessary
Reliable trigger of your choice
Bottom metal of your choice
Quality builder of your choice
Manners/McMillan lightweight stock of your choice
3ish-25ishx50ish reliable FFP optic with 10mrad/rev - so you'll never need to get off of first revolution. Reticle doesn't need to be excellent for ranging, as milling isn't frequent in PRS matches.

It's ideal to weigh in less than ~14lb all up with sling, bipod, optic, etc

Here's my take on it:

Badger Ordnance 2013 melonited
Hawk Hill Customs Remington Varmint barrel @ 26"
6mm Super LR chamber
APA LB brake - can barely feel the difference if it's on or off
Timney 510U trigger at ~2lb
PTG "Stealth" DBM
Built by Mark at SAC
McMillan A5 with standard fill
Premier 5-25x56 with Mildot reticle

 

[varmint slayer]

Perfect Rifle For PRS

The B6D is pretty close, some close variant is pretty much ideal:

Quality action of your choice
24-26" RemVar(ish) barrel from a premium manufacturer
6mm chambering of your choice that fits in AIAW magazines, run the 105 hybrid @ 3100+, and won't make you cry when you lose some brass.
Brake is pretty much unnecessary
Reliable trigger of your choice
Bottom metal of your choice
Quality builder of your choice
Manners/McMillan lightweight stock of your choice
3ish-25ishx50ish reliable FFP optic with 10mrad/rev - so you'll never need to get off of first revolution. Reticle doesn't need to be excellent for ranging, as milling isn't frequent in PRS matches.

It's idea to weigh in less than ~14lb all up with sling, bipod, optic

Here's my take on it:

Badger Ordnance 2013 melonited
Hawk Hill Customs Remington Varmint barrel @ 26"
6mm Super LR chamber
APA LB brake - can barely feel the difference if it's on or off
Timney 510U trigger at ~2lb
PTG "Stealth" DBM
Built by Mark at SAC
McMillan A5 with standard fill
Premier 5-25x56 with Mildot reticle

Have you ran the 6 SLR before? I'm really curious about them but I can't really find any hard data that says the shoulder angle and longer neck does much more than the .243 can. Any thoughts?

 

[turbo54]

Have you ran the 6 SLR before? I'm really curious about them but I can't really find any hard data that says the shoulder angle and longer neck does much more than the .243 can. Any thoughts?

It's only my 2nd 6mm. My first was/is the 6xc. It sure *feels* like the SLR has a much easier time propelling the 105s to 3150 than the XC does, despite the fact it takes more powder in the SLR.

I guess the question becomes: What hurts a barrel more, 40gr H4350/105hybrid@3150fps/65,000psi or 43gr H4350/105hybrid@3150fps/58,000psi?

I pulled these pressure figures out of my ass, by the way - so don't quote me on them. Bottom line though is a bigger case with more powder to achieve the same velocity is running lower pressure.

Anyway, I don't know the answer.

I like that the SLR uses plain 243 brass that I don't mind losing. I like that it can run the match speed limit easily. I like that the long neck has a good grab on the bullet DESPITE the bullet being nowhere near the neck/shoulder junction all the while fitting an AW magazine with room to spare. They're also easy to spot in a big pile of brass.

I don't put a lot of stock in the magic shoulder angle + longer neck having a big impact on throat/barrel life. When you consider the cost of match fees, time off work, travel (food/fuel/lodging), ammunition, etc etc, the extra $20 per match you spend on barrel wear for a 6mm vs. a 6.5mm is just a drop in the bucket.

I'm not here to say I think 6SLR is the "best" 6mm chambering out there. The x47, XC, Creed and 243 have all proven to work great. In my lizard brain though, the SLR makes a lot of sense.

 

[varmint slayer]

It's only my 2nd 6mm. My first was/is the 6xc. It sure *feels* like the SLR has a much easier time propelling the 105s to 3150 than the XC does, despite the fact it takes more powder in the SLR.

I guess the question becomes: What hurts a barrel more, 40gr H4350/105hybrid@3150fps/65,000psi or 43gr H4350/105hybrid@3150fps/58,000psi?

I pulled these pressure figures out of my ass, by the way - so don't quote me on them. Bottom line though is a bigger case with more powder to achieve the same velocity is running lower pressure.

Anyway, I don't know the answer.

I like that the SLR uses plain 243 brass that I don't mind losing. I like that it can run the match speed limit easily. I like that the long neck has a good grab on the bullet DESPITE the bullet being nowhere near the neck/shoulder junction all the while fitting an AW magazine with room to spare. They're also easy to spot in a big pile of brass.

I don't put a lot of stock in the magic shoulder angle + longer neck having a big impact on throat/barrel life. When you consider the cost of match fees, time off work, travel (food/fuel/lodging), ammunition, etc etc, the extra $20 per match you spend on barrel wear for a 6mm vs. a 6.5mm is just a drop in the bucket.

I'm not here to say I think 6SLR is the "best" 6mm chambering out there. The x47, XC, Creed and 243 have all proven to work great. In my lizard brain though, the SLR makes a lot of sense.

I hear ya man. I have been running a .243 AI with a 30" barrel and H1000 and getting 3200 is no problem at all. I've had them up to 3300 with room to run about 3 more grains of powder. If AI brass wasn't a kick in the nuts to loose I would run it in matches as 3150 with H1000 is child's play for it so I'm guessing barrel life will be pretty long with it. Thanks for you thoughts though. In appreciate it and maybe it a year or so you can report back.

 

[Brasscow]

Here's my take on it:

Nice rifle, but nowhere near <= 14lbs.

 

[turbo54]

Nice rifle, but nowhere near <= 14lbs.

I think it's a smidge over 15.

Do as I SAY, not as I DO!

I think simply replacing the 2013 action with a Defiance/Stiller/Rem700 would get it inside 14lb. A lot of (considerably) lighter scopes available, too.

 

[Shanerbanner10]

Out of curiosity, why are more guys not running the Badger actions or other 3 lug short throw bolts in PRS?

 

[Lowlight]

Bravo 6 Delta is under 11LBS without a scope... just saying.

 

[turbo54]

Out of curiosity, why are more guys not running the Badger actions or other 3 lug short throw bolts in PRS?

My guess is because there aren't very many 60º actions out there, the M2008 had a pretty stiff bolt lift as well as some other quirks, the M2013 hasn't been out very long and people are still wary of the M2008, and the community seems to be on a Defiance kick...before that it was Surgeon.

EDIT: Plus the AI and BO actions are heavy!

 

[Rob01]

What is perfect for one person might not be for another. Basics i would say:

Whatever action makes you happy
6mm or 6.5mm caliber of your choice
24-28" barrel in proper twist for bullet being used
med palma to MTU contour
Stock which is comfortable for you
DBM of choice
Built by good rifle smith
Good quality, reliable scope with top end in the 20-25x range

 

[t-payne]

Do most people run compensators on their rifles? If not why? And if so, which one is the favorite?

 

[turbo54]

Do most people run compensators on their rifles? If not why? And if so, which one is the favorite?

Most do, probably ~75%.

Favorite? APA LB, Badger Thruster, JEC are popular.

Some run suppressors, also, but way fewer.

Why do some people not use a brake? Because some people don't like the blast. Others find a ~243 or ~260 really just doesn't need one.

 

[308sniper147]

What is perfect for one person might not be for another. Basics i would say:

Whatever action makes you happy
6mm or 6.5mm caliber of your choice
24-28" barrel in proper twist for bullet being used
med palma to MTU contour
Stock which is comfortable for you
DBM of choice
Built by good rifle smith
Good quality, reliable scope with top end in the 20-25x range

Why would you want your scope to have that high of a mag range? Some scope with that high of a mag range are heavier as well as I don't generally use over 12-15x for 1000 yards. I can even use a fixed 10x at 1000 and it do pretty well. I'm just curious.


Andrew

 

[Rob01]

Why would you want your scope to have that high of a mag range? Some scope with that high of a mag range are heavier as well as I don't generally use over 12-15x for 1000 yards. I can even use a fixed 10x at 1000 and it do pretty well. I'm just curious.


Andrew

I can dial my 25x scope down to 10x or 12-15x but can you dial up to 25x with a fixed 10x or 3-15x scope if you needed more power for a stage of fire? The size and weight is not enough to worry about as it breaks down to a couple inches and a few extra ounces. The pro side of having more magnification far outweighs the con side.

I don't generally go much over 15x on most stages either but I have it there if I need it which at times I do to make the shot easier.

 

[turbo54]

Why would you want your scope to have that high of a mag range? Some scope with that high of a mag range are heavier as well as I don't generally use over 12-15x for 1000 yards. I can even use a fixed 10x at 1000 and it do pretty well. I'm just curious.


Andrew

Ever shoot a "know your limits" or "test your limits" stage?

It is not uncommon for these to be done at 100 yards. There'll be decreasing-size dots, starting at ~1.5" going down to perhaps 1/4".

Can you target a 1/4" or 3/8" dot @ 100 yards with 10x?

Maybe, but not like you can with 25x.

For tacmatch shooting, I'll always give up the 3-4x range to gain the 15-25x range.

 

[ColoYooper]

.260 rem, BigHorn Action, Mark Chanlynn Palma barrel, muscle brake, Jewell trigger, Manners T5-A with 10 round DBM, Harris rocking bipod, Leupold Mark IV TMR 8.5-25 50mm scope (soon to be replaced with same FFP version), 20 MOA bases.

 

[poison123]

Why would you want your scope to have that high of a mag range? Some scope with that high of a mag range are heavier as well as I don't generally use over 12-15x for 1000 yards. I can even use a fixed 10x at 1000 and it do pretty well. I'm just curious.


Andrew

When your shooting a KYL specifically if its a paper KYL you will really want that extra 10x mag.

 

[308sniper147]

I can dial my 25x scope down to 10x or 12-15x but can you dial up to 25x with a fixed 10x or 3-15x scope if you needed more power for a stage of fire? The size and weight is not enough to worry about as it breaks down to a couple inches and a few extra ounces. The pro side of having more magnification far outweighs the con side.

I don't generally go much over 15x on most stages either but I have it there if I need it which at times I do to make the shot easier.

Agreed. I do think it's better to have it than to not I have just never personally had to use over 15x

And I do agree that it would make precise shooting on paper "easier".

 

[JByrd]

Surgeon Scalpel spec'd in a A5's have been Purdy consistent choice at the top of the pile. that GAP bravo 6 is all business as well. I got a feeling you will be seeing ALOT of the new
Vortex 27x's.

turbo54 hit the nail on the head

6mm cost of operation in the grand scheme of things vs HOW MUCH TRAVEL,ROOMS,COMPONENTS etc. cost. those are the straws that brake the camels back. its deep water to play with the big boys and be competitive

like rob and others have said you can always turn a 25x mag optic down, its a no brainer.

good luck, sounds like you have a lot of potential, go get'm

 

[clayne_b]

If money was not an issue im sure it would be uber bad ass...

But here is my set up

Savage 12 LRP 6.5 Creedmoor
Rifle is 100% factory
Weaver Rail
Blackhawk rings
SWFA SS 5-20x50
Darkeagle Custom Inc, 10 round mag
Harris bipod
Strap on cheek rest

 

[Randoman5]

If money was not an issue im sure it would be uber bad ass...

But here is my set up

Savage 12 LRP 6.5 Creedmoor
Rifle is 100% factory
Weaver Rail
Blackhawk rings
SWFA SS 5-20x50
Darkeagle Custom Inc, 10 round mag
Harris bipod
Strap on cheek rest

Placing that high with that rifle is uber bad ass.

 

[JRWALLSIII]

Tyler

You will get tons off different opinions. I hope to see you shooting the PRS this year as I'm sure you will be at the top if you do.

Lots of guys are running 6mms. 6 creedmoor and 6xc are at the top
6.5s are still winning the big matches a 260 won the finale and 6.5x47 win the grind. So barrel life vs speed is the deal breaker

I run Heavy Palma contours with APA little bastard brake. They are a little lighter than MTUs but heavy enough to be stable and easy to shoot well.

Stock choice is what feels good to you. I hate chassis so Manners or MCM

Surgeon still makes the best DBM by far

Good luck bro. See you soon

Joe Walls

 

[SFree]

PrecisionRifleBlog.com | A DATA-DRIVEN Approach to Precision Rifles, Optics & Gear will give ya pretty much all the info and results of equipment choices you seek.

Disclaimer: Top 20-30 shooters would be competitive with a sling and 5 smooth stones...

 

[Trevor300wsm]

PrecisionRifleBlog.com | A DATA-DRIVEN Approach to Precision Rifles, Optics & Gear will give ya pretty much all the info and results of equipment choices you seek.

Disclaimer: Top 20-30 shooters would be competitive with a sling and 5 smooth stones...

Exactly..... Those top 20 guys could all be shooting .308's with everyone else shooting hot rod 6's and they would still win the match. You can copy the gear, but you can't copy the skill.....sadly.

 

[The_FNG]

Ever shoot a "know your limits" or "test your limits" stage?

It is not uncommon for these to be done at 100 yards. There'll be decreasing-size dots, starting at ~1.5" going down to perhaps 1/4".

Can you target a 1/4" or 3/8" dot @ 100 yards with 10x?

Maybe, but not like you can with 25x.

For tacmatch shooting, I'll always give up the 3-4x range to gain the 15-25x range.

Hows your parallax at 100 [MENTION=45618]turbo54[/MENTION]

 

[turbo54]

Hows your parallax at 100 [MENTION=45618]turbo54[/MENTION]

Dunno, haven't had a chance to let Frank inspect it yet.

 

[ericthebeard]

You can copy the gear, but you can't copy the skill.....sadly.

Sadly? No way. The converse would be uber depressing. I can train and work hard over time and get better.

My rifle will just sit there and always be what it is... maybe even rust a little.

Gear is fun, skills acquisition and hard work is what makes life worth living.

 

[t-payne]

Will I be at a disadvantage having a trued 700 action? Is there really a big advantage going with one action over the other?

 

[poison123]

Will I be at a disadvantage having a trued 700 action? Is there really a big advantage going with one action over the other?

Seriously I got to ask.....assuming you are the Payne on the AMU Team....who just won Mammoth Toughman for what the 3rd year in the row.......why ask a question like that?

And a honest answer is.....is Tacops not one of the finest rifles that can be had? And they are all built on Rem700's.

 

[JSF]

Will I be at a disadvantage having a trued 700 action? Is there really a big advantage going with one action over the other?

You will be fine with a trued 700. I've seen some customs lock up while factory remingtons and savages kept chugging along.

 

[t-payne]

I ask because I have very limited experience with any custom actions. If getting a custom action is an advantage over a 700, I would like to know before I start putting together a rifle. Thanks for all the replies so far.

 

[JRWALLSIII]

I run a Surgeon. But there are many great actions

I properly trued 700 will shoot with the best custom IMO. Though resale will suffer and you have to spend money to true, pin the lug, etc. to me a custom is just a matter of time and a good move to start off right.

Surgeon are hard to get but nice
Defiance makes a nice action
Stiller would be good if you could get a non fluted bolt as I've seen there fluting cause problems
Bighorns are nice too

Any action will fail if not taken care of properly

 

[poison123]

I ask because I have very limited experience with any custom actions. If getting a custom action is an advantage over a 700, I would like to know before I start putting together a rifle. Thanks for all the replies so far.

The biggest plus of a custom over a 700 in my opinion is being able to have them cut to use AW mags.

 

[Pointman308]

Placing that high with that rifle is uber bad ass.

I have one of those rifles because I cannot afford a custom. Let me tell you; they kick ass period.

 

[Lowlight]

Don't use AW mags, they don't work in a competition rifle for shit... ever.

Avoid AW mags outside of an AW rifle. They don't hold right and if you slam the mag under stress / time you have a good chance to pop the rounds right out of the top.

AW mags is nice in theory but don't work for shit in reality

 

[poison123]

Don't use AW mags, they don't work in a competition rifle for shit... ever.

Avoid AW mags outside of an AW rifle. They don't hold right and if you slam the mag under stress / time you have a good chance to pop the rounds right out of the top.

AW mags is nice in theory but don't work for shit in reality

They have run fine in my Gap Team Gun Clone....but then again I asked them to make sure it was setup for them.

 

[Okie Gordon]

The biggest plus of a custom over a 700 in my opinion is being able to have them cut to use AW mags.

There are definite advantages to having a custom action over a factory Remington or Winchester or Savage.
Reliability, specifically with the Surgeon action.

Surgeon's have a true one piece machined bolt body and handle.
Surgeon's have a scope rail and recoil lug machined into the receiver rather than something screwed or brazed on.
Surgeon's have a machined bump on the inner portion of the left lug recess to keep rounds from going too far left and causing a "Remington Moment" when single feeding.

There may be a couple of other receivers who have all these features but I know the big three do not.

I have seen screw on rails come loose and even shear off under the stress of recoil, and have also seen brazed bolt handles come off when trying to run the bolt to remove the spent round.

When you shoot 10,000+ rounds a year (as some top shooters do) log term reliability is absolutely a requirement, not an option.

 

[Lowlight]

I have it in the Bravo 6 Delta and the mover event where you ran up, inserted a mag, shot the mover, then moved to the barricades, ending at the 500 yard mover...

All the round flew out of the action. I had a bunch of feeding issues during the GRIND.

I have seen it happen to others... working once or twice in my opinion is just pure luck. It's not a matter of "if" but "when" .

Plus I have also seen over time, no side dips down and stops feeding right.

 

[poison123]

I have it in the Bravo 6 Delta and the mover event where you ran up, inserted a mag, shot the mover, then moved to the barricades, ending at the 500 yard mover...

All the round flew out of the action. I had a bunch of feeding issues during the GRIND.

I have seen it happen to others... working once or twice in my opinion is just pure luck. It's not a matter of "if" but "when" .

Plus I have also seen over time, no side dips down and stops feeding right.

I understand what your saying LL. When I ran a McCree with a custom action it fucked me good at the first Mammoth.

I guess I'm just lucky with over 2k rounds into this gun never had "mag" moment on it yet.

 

[JLR]

Don't use AW mags, they don't work in a competition rifle for shit... ever.

Avoid AW mags outside of an AW rifle. They don't hold right and if you slam the mag under stress / time you have a good chance to pop the rounds right out of the top.

AW mags is nice in theory but don't work for shit in reality

Frank, I respect you and your opinions but making a blanket statement like that is just BS and borderline ignorant. AW mags can and do work just fine in a competition rifle.

 

[Lowlight]

If you say so, I have seen more where one side dips down and stops feeding, I have several here, read: More than One, and none work as well the as AICS mags do.

I even swapped some that were designed to work with the AW mags as I have seen several issues.

I don't see how it is "ignorant" as I have experience with more than one builder using the same AW mags that don't work.

I can list 4 rifles I have used in the last year that don't work. They need special attention, and that attention does not always hold true throughout the use.

AICS in rifles with stocks, work better... call me ignorant all you want, but that is my personal opinion based on using a variety of them.

 

[JLR]

Like I said, I respect your opinion, but the blanket statement you made is incorrect. When set up properly, AW mags work just fine. I can back that up with a heck of a lot more than 4 rifles that can and do work with both AI and AW mags flawlessly. It takes a little extra attention to detail in the bedding/dbm setup, but that's just part of the process.

 

[Lowlight]

Whatever,

It's my opinion, so, also not every AW mag is perfect, it takes very little to lower the mag so it doesn't feed correctly. All that has to happen is one side need to drop a bit for the bolt to cross over the round, and it can be just as much the magazine's fault as the builder. You're attention to detail does not extend to the magazine.

Also it's much more open than in a traditional AW rifle, and it's easier for the rounds to fly out of the top if you load it too hard. That has nothing to do with the construction. The AW mag is design to be Top Fed as much as an internal magazine. So it's easier to pop the rounds out.

You have a vested interest, you build this stuff, I use it... I see it across a wide variety of platforms and loading and feeding issues happen all the time, and from what I have seen, more often with AW mags than AICS.

You can call me ignorant you can say whatever the fuck you want, but remember something, you're experience and mine are two different things, cause I actually pay more attention when something doesn't work as well.

I know exactly what goes into doing it right, and I know your doing it right does not dictate the entire picture of things. We are talking several levels here, not just one.

AICS are more reliable... period.

if you want to continue to call me ignorant on this, I can easily show you how fucking ignorant I can be.