Peterson Virgin Brass Pressure Signs

[FNG1001]

@918v
Fired outer neck diameter = 0.2945
Loaded neck diameter = 0.2925

 

[Holliday]

Interesting observations on Peterson Brass in this thread. I was using Nosler brass in my 280 Ackley and had a lot of inconsistent premature pressure issues. I really felt from my personal anecdotal experience that Nosler brass is crap.

Since switching to Peterson “all has been right with the world” to quote another poster. It seems night and day in quality to me.

Someone sure the hell likes Petersen brass because when it comes to getting to 280 Ackley Peterson brass, it’s like trying to find unicorn turds. I just snagged 100 pieces Grafs the other day, and that stuff was gone in a few hours.

This guy did a comparison between 280 AI Nolser and Peterson: https://schoutdoors.com/threads/high-quality-brass-experiment-280-ai-nosler-versus-peterson.15575/. “Clear winner is Peterson in almost every category.”

 

[Cascade Hemi]

@918v
Fired outer neck diameter = 0.2945
Loaded neck diameter = 0.2925

What do other brands of brass look like out of the same gun?

 

[FNG1001]

What do other brands of brass look like out of the same gun?

No signs using Hornady and Norma brass and Federal 210 primers.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Do bullets drop in a fired case?

 

[918v]

@918v
Fired outer neck diameter = 0.2945
Loaded neck diameter = 0.2925

I think you should turn the necks for .005”+ clearance and your pressure signs will go away.

 

[supercorndogs]

Interesting observations on Peterson Brass in this thread. I was using Nosler brass in my 280 Ackley and had a lot of inconsistent premature pressure issues. I really felt from my personal anecdotal experience that Nosler brass is crap.

Since switching to Peterson “all has been right with the world” to quote another poster. It seems night and day in quality to me.

Someone sure the hell likes Petersen brass because when it comes to getting to 280 Ackley Peterson brass, it’s like trying to find unicorn turds. I just snagged 100 pieces Grafs the other day, and that stuff was gone in a few hours.

This guy did a comparison between 280 AI Nolser and Peterson: https://schoutdoors.com/threads/high-quality-brass-experiment-280-ai-nosler-versus-peterson.15575/. “Clear winner is Peterson in almost every category.”

Case neck wall thickness .160... I think i would be inclined not to listen to that guy. For reference that is over 1/8". The listed variance is more than my Nosler 280 brass is thick.

Case Neck Wall thickness:

Peterson Wall Thickness spread +/- .000
.160
.160
.160
.160
.160
--------
Nosler Wall Thickness spread +/- .020
.170
.160
.150
.150
.160
---------

My Nosler 280 brass has been fine. It is sitting weighting for its 9th time around. Of course it hasn't been pushed to max pressures each firing either.

 

[just browsing]

A couple of guys around here have had bad luck with the Peterson BR/Dasher stuff. I had a bad experience with their 6x47L a few years ago. But I also had a bad experience with the original (non-OCD) Alpha 25 Creed brass.

Shit, I‘m having a 22GT recut using the Alpha “spec” reamer specifically to accommodate the OCD brass and not develop gnarly carbon rings after 150 rounds…

I guess the point is that there are a lot of factors that impact how brass reacts in a specific application. It’s system-dependent. Different chamber dimensions, reamer options, not to mention differences in how it’s being loaded, prepped, etc. Honestly it’s not really surprising to hear “bad” stories regardless of what’s being used at this point.

Admittedly I don’t view Peterson as “equal” to Alpha or Lapua, but realistically that has nothing to do with performance or consistency and everything to do with personal preference.

 

[FNG1001]

I think you should turn the necks for .005”+ clearance and your pressure signs will go away.

time for new equipment on the bench


Also found a related thread, using Peterson, that sounded very similar

Neck Tension and Pressure Signs

I've been struggling in my 6.5-CM loads with pressure signs (heavy bolt, extractor swipe marks, etc.) in loads that absolutely should "not" be delivering them. I'm talking about velocities that are hundreds of fps slower (2400-ish) than factory ammo (2700-ish) ... that by the way ... shoots...

www.snipershide.com

 

[Jack's Dad]

I've found Peterson brass to be excellent in my straight 284

 

[FNG1001]

@dmuffman80 Before and after pics of the bolt head. I clean off the grease prior to shooting.

 

[918v]

time for new equipment on the bench


Also found a related thread, using Peterson, that sounded very similar

Neck Tension and Pressure Signs

I've been struggling in my 6.5-CM loads with pressure signs (heavy bolt, extractor swipe marks, etc.) in loads that absolutely should "not" be delivering them. I'm talking about velocities that are hundreds of fps slower (2400-ish) than factory ammo (2700-ish) ... that by the way ... shoots...

www.snipershide.com

and that guy has a .296” fired necks. More clearance than you have and the same problem. Have you tried other brass?

 

[FNG1001]

and that guy has a .296” fired necks. More clearance than you have and the same problem. Have you tried other brass?

Yes, similar experiences, though im not having any stuck or sticky bolts.
Previous brass I've use have been Hornady and Norma without any concerns/signs of pressure.

 

[918v]

Then maybe you should go back to those. It would suck if you bought a neck turner and turned all those necks for the problem to remain.

 

[Holliday]

Case neck wall thickness .160... I think i would be inclined not to listen to that guy. For reference that is over 1/8". The listed variance is more than my Nosler 280 brass is thick.

Case Neck Wall thickness:

Peterson Wall Thickness spread +/- .000
.160
.160
.160
.160
.160
--------
Nosler Wall Thickness spread +/- .020
.170
.160
.150
.150
.160
---------

My Nosler 280 brass has been fine. It is sitting weighting for its 9th time around. Of course it hasn't been pushed to max pressures each firing either.

Interesting…. I had not noticed that. Did he forget a zero or is he adding two walls together to make the full diameter difference?? I’m no mathematician. Good catch.

 

[spife7980]

Interesting…. I had not noticed that. Did he forget a zero or is he adding two walls together to make the full diameter difference?? I’m no mathematician. Good catch.

You think .080 thick would be good?

He must have forgotten a leading 0

 

[Holliday]

You think .080 thick would be good?

He must have forgotten a leading 0

Probably. I’ll measure a virgin piece when I get a spare moment.

 

[FNG1001]

I went back to the range today, and ran some more tests. I brought with me some factory Norma 6.5CM (i forgot to bring some factory Hornady 140 Match) and another load of the Petersoon brass with Hornady 140 ELDM and H4350

After carefully inspecting the the heads of the Norma, I could see the marks left by the ejector. To keep things consistent, I measured the necks on the Norma and Peterson:

• Norma Fired Outer neck = 0.2945
• Norma Factory loaded w/ bullet neck size = 0.2920
• Peterson Fired Outer neck = 0.2945
• Peterson loaded w/ bullet neck size = 0.2925

Dropping a Hornady 140 ELD-M through the mouths of the fired Peterson was fine. Needed a little aligning but they went down. Norma fired brass was not going down.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

You have neck turning in your future.

 

[FNG1001]

You have neck turning in your future.

It's looking likely.

Not sure if it's worth it at this point, but i lean toward staying safe than anything else. The (factory) barrel has 1300 rounds through it, and its about this time that i started seeing these signs. Fouling? A re-barrel should be sometimes this year.

 

[dmuffman80]

@dmuffman80 Before and after pics of the bolt head. I clean off the grease prior to shooting.

The ejector does not look too long.

 

[918v]

It's looking likely.

Not sure if it's worth it at this point, but i lean toward staying safe than anything else. The (factory) barrel has 1300 rounds through it, and its about this time that i started seeing these signs. Fouling? A re-barrel should be sometimes this year.

When you rebarrel ask for a standard size neck. My brass expands to .296” and I don’t have any pressure issues. The last time I had a tight neck cut I saw what you’re seeing- low velocity and pressure signs.

 

[Milo 2.5]

@918v
0.2910 after FL resize and no bullet.
0.2925 with bullet seated

Bullet is a Hornady 140 ELD-M measuring 0.2635 average.

Measurements taken from a Mitutoyo CD6 ASX.

Sidebar here, lol, when you have a problem, involving 10 strangers with 10 opinions a quick fix usually is not in the cards.
Pick one or 2 of these guys, and follow their lead, exasperate their ideas first.
918 and spife are pretty solid, more are too, I am just more familiar with them>

 

[Cascade Hemi]

It's looking likely.

Not sure if it's worth it at this point, but i lean toward staying safe than anything else. The (factory) barrel has 1300 rounds through it, and its about this time that i started seeing these signs. Fouling? A re-barrel should be sometimes this year.

I was having pressure problems from a tight custom chamber that wasn't supposed to be tight. I borrowed a friend's turning station and turned a few pieces to prove what was happening. I then bought a 21st Century turning lathe. I should have done it years earlier. It isn't hard and doesn't take that much time. Neck turning seems to be the boogie man on SH, it just isn't that big of a deal. We bought all the rest of the high end gear and wring out hands over every detail. Why would neck turning somehow be different?

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Sidebar here, lol, when you have a problem, involving 10 strangers with 10 opinions a quick fix usually is not in the cards.
Pick one or 2 of these guys, and follow their lead, exasperate their ideas first.
918 and spife are pretty solid, more are too, I am just more familiar with them>

In another thread recently, a member stated that neck clearance doesn't matter. Not all advice is good advice for sure.

 

[Milo 2.5]

In another thread recently, a member stated that neck clearance doesn't matter. Not all advice is good advice for sure.

I respect your advice, and rocketman, fucking elton john in my head, lol, and supercorndoggie's.
I just know from personal experience, too much becomes gray noise.
I had to bail on the reloading forum, got sick of the dogfights

 

[FNG1001]

This has been a great thread. Thank you all for sharing your knowledge on this. I'll be looking into the different neck turners on the market. I'll have to debate whether to change out the current barrel ~1k rounds early (with the proper neck size), or get turner on the bench.

When you rebarrel ask for a standard size neck. My brass expands to .296” and I don’t have any pressure issues. The last time I had a tight neck cut I saw what you’re seeing- low velocity and pressure signs.

What are the pro (cons are clear so far) for manufacturer creating tight necks? Do you still find yourself neck turning since changing neck dimensions?

 

[Milo 2.5]

What are the pro (cons are clear so far) for manufacturer creating tight necks? Do you still find yourself neck turning since changing neck dimensions?

I think you are pointing a finger at the wrong manufacturing process. In a factory rifle, tight neck may be that chamber was one of the final ones done by that reamer, it may be worn.
More in no brass standards for neck thickness.
On custom chambers, now it could be design, want a neck turn chamber, or a chamber turned for a certain brand of brass.
An oversize neck diameter in the chamber can create it's own set of issues too, like not a proper seal off.

 

[kvpm]

I know you mentioned you cleaned the bore, but could you be experiencing a carbon ring?

 

[918v]

This has been a great thread. Thank you all for sharing your knowledge on this. I'll be looking into the different neck turners on the market. I'll have to debate whether to change out the current barrel ~1k rounds early (with the proper neck size), or get turner on the bench.


What are the pro (cons are clear so far) for manufacturer creating tight necks? Do you still find yourself neck turning since changing neck dimensions?

The pros are reduced brass hardening. A lot of people turn necks because they want consistency. A thick neck, when you size it in a bushing die, produces a tighter ID. A thick neck also holds on to the bullet more strongly than a thin neck increasing bullet pull.

So people turn necks. But now, if you have a factory chamber, your beautiful turned necks have additional clearance and you’re working the brass more. Bad. So the next chamber you cut has a tight neck. You turn your necks and end up with the same clearance as before but with perfectly consistent necks.

I use a Lee collet neck die and a body die which eliminates the neck thickness issue. But people who use bushing dies may benefit from turning necks. Also, annealing eliminates the work hardening issue.

 

[Holliday]

He must have forgotten a leading 0

Probably. I’ll measure a virgin piece when I get a spare moment.

Yep I got .0160”

I posted the correction.
Post in thread 'High Quality Brass Experiment (280 AI - Nosler versus Peterson)'
https://schoutdoors.com/threads/hig...0-ai-nosler-versus-peterson.15575/post-198007

 

[MarkyMark007]

so you all dont like some brand of the brass, but noone is comparing how accurate is your gun within those brands?

what are you looking for? the most shiny brass?

 

[MarkyMark007]

I've found Peterson brass to be excellent in my straight 284

me too, but I hate their too tight primer pockets, expecialy with european primers.

but now I bought Lapua 284 brass (only for a stockpile; because I expect that peterson will last for years), because there is no more Peterson on the planet...