Thank you sir. Minus my butchered flash hider, I'm happy with this build... Waiting on another optic but assuming it passes the alignment test, I'm ok safety wise, from what you see?Probably is okay, but never risk it with high velocity or pressurised components.
Nice looking rig though.
Pin and Weld Question
- Thread starter IWillNotComply
- Start date
I'd rather let the correct gauge tool decide that.
Reality is, that a high density barrel takes a shitload of direct heat to deform.
Even a low functioning cockwomble with a welder, would be challenged to munt it.
Hoping it's okay, but get it professionally assessed.
Reality is, that a high density barrel takes a shitload of direct heat to deform.
Even a low functioning cockwomble with a welder, would be challenged to munt it.
Hoping it's okay, but get it professionally assessed.
TBH the first two pictures have me concerned that your sandman will mount. There are teeth that slide over that surface and it is nessecarily a tight fit.
Is this a one man shop? Maybe the Smith doesn't know the job was done so poorly. If he has a junior Smith working under him, maybe he thought it's such a simple process, he could give the job to the other guy.
You have to stand up and let this shop know that people won't stand for this type of work.
It looks flame welded. I would be a little concerned about how hot they got the actual barrel to weld all that.
I braze and solder pipe for a living. metal needs to get extremely hot to flame weld.
Jesus, that's fucked. You should be pissed the hell off with that kind of abortion.
As above, the amount of heat input it took to do this and any warpage it might've caused to your bore.
Throw that shit back at bubba and demand a full refund of his "work" plus purchase cost of your butchered components, fucking hatchet job.
And what the fuck is up with that strange non-shoulder? Almost looks like he started a parting cut, then said fuck it and turned a radius instead. Either way, it's ugly as sin and a totally unacceptable job.
As above, the amount of heat input it took to do this and any warpage it might've caused to your bore.
Throw that shit back at bubba and demand a full refund of his "work" plus purchase cost of your butchered components, fucking hatchet job.
And what the fuck is up with that strange non-shoulder? Almost looks like he started a parting cut, then said fuck it and turned a radius instead. Either way, it's ugly as sin and a totally unacceptable job.
Hello, professional welder here. I’d be a Little concerned with how hot that barrel/muzzle device got. Looks like it was brazed to me. Tig welding would have melted away the threads where you are seeing filler metal. Meaning this dufus probably took an oxy acy torch to the end of your barrel/muzzle device and got the thing red hot. Any temper that was in any of those parts Was definitely affected. Temps were definitely high enough to burn off the coatings that were on the barrel/MD. A quick tig weld would have had a very small Heat affected zone.
Or did they try to cover it with paint and bondo??
Never seen an AR barrel without a shoulder behind the threads.
My concern is the discoloration on the barrel itself.
Looks like an annealed piece of brass and totally burnt off the Manganese Phosphate Barrel Finish.
Never seen an AR barrel without a shoulder behind the threads.
My concern is the discoloration on the barrel itself.
Looks like an annealed piece of brass and totally burnt off the Manganese Phosphate Barrel Finish.
where these new parts or did you buy them second hand. Whom ever did the last work over heated the metals and it looks like someone tried to correct it. thats some hack shit
There is no way to until you have a can on it and use a no go / alignment tool on it. The way the shop tried to weld a ring around bottom can put stress on the threads.
post the shop so no one else try’s to use them.
it also looks like he burnt through the shims, I’m surprised there isn't any spatter
If I get it checked for Go-No Go and for the suppressor to fit, which is doubtful, and for the unlikely chance the bore is not deformed, is it potentially usable or am I still F-d?
I just sent them pictures and a nice note... Just to see what happened and what they say. I'm so depressed about this. Spent so much time and $ planning out this to be my primary rifle....
Hypothetically, if I sourced another barrel with gas Tube, block, etc, could I get a proper smith to swap it and reuse the rail and receiver? I'm thinking what is my lowest cost to return this mess to proper form.If I get it checked for Go-No Go and for the suppressor to fit, which is doubtful, and for the unlikely chance the bore is not deformed, is it potentially usable or am I still F-d?
I just sent them pictures and a nice note... Just to see what happened and what they say. I'm so depressed about this. Spent so much time and $ planning out this to be my primary rifle....
Quick update.... Going to take it back tomorrow after getting a response. Was told, after inspection, if need be, they will pay for a new barrel and muzzle device. That's at least progress and thank you all for the help and confidence to nicely pursue a correction.
Now, to find a BFH elw 14.5 barrel, that is going to be a chore. Ugh
Now, to find a BFH elw 14.5 barrel, that is going to be a chore. Ugh
Keep us updated. I wanna see what he has to say about that whole situation, and how he fucked it up. If he just gave it back and hoped you wouldn't notice, I'd be LIVID lol. Thats just shit integrity.
If he had an apprentice do it and didn't realize, and fixes the issue, then I might be more willing to forgive lol.
Let us know
Will do... And to be totally honest I'm surprised as hell, because really seems like a nice/good person, I'm thinking it was an apprentice issue, because when I dropped it off, we discussed the job, and he explained the tiny weld and how it's usually unnoticeable it's been pinned.. so I didn't even look at it closely when I picked it up, rookie move I know!
The good thing is, via text this morning, very nice responses and absolutely open to look at it and the offer to replace the barrel and muzzle device if required, which I think is a safe bet when I use you all's feedback in person.
Last question before I go back tomorrow, if I happened to get $ for a new barrel, and dead air hider, do I need to assume anything else needs to be replaced, such as gas block or anything? I'm not experienced taking apart uppers as you might know. This is the BCM BFH ELW brand new 14.5 from the factory.
Shouldnt have to replace the gas block or anything else. Nice rig. You done good. Shame you’re going through this. Hopefully he takes care of you.
If you end up replacing the barrel, you will need a new gas block and barrel nut unless, somehow, your smith is able to remove the current muzzle device. You can not take those parts off the old barrel with that muzzle device attached.
Thank you.. and you are right, it's a shame indeed and it makes me sick how I tried so hard to do everything right for this 'budget' but quality build... And I didn't even explain the other hurdles to get to this, but it's been an exhausting process getting my 'do-it-all' rifle completed.. from delayed shipments on BCG, lower receiver, buying the wrong upper first from BCM, and having to sell it, then waiting for this exact one to get in stock for weeks... Now it's to the final stage and BOOM, ruined! I should have just bought the upper pinned from BCM in the first place and not worried about the Suppressor...
Well, if the barrel is truly toast, could it just be cut off? Should I push to just get full cost of the entire upper and muzzle device ($780 + $100 for dead air flash hider) and let him keep the one they did? I'm not sure I can even find this barrel in stock, as they are using them for uppers.
If the barrel is toast or being replaced just ask the Smith to chop off the muzzle and slide your gas block off
This is what I worry about. Looks like the chicken shit on the taper and he tried to clean it up with a file. Make him pay for a barrel and adapter. Get a 16" barrel. An inch and a half OAL isn't worth the hassle created by a P&W job even if done correctly.
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In my opinion, since it was a factory built upper, I would want a factory built upper replacement. Yes you could cut the barrel and remove them but that isn’t the proper way to do things.
Now here is something to consider:
request a refund of your money for pin and welding and the cost of new barrel and muzzle device. I would request that they pay for a new barrel nut and gas block as your current ones are “stuck on” the barrel they screwed up. I would also make sure to include tax and shipping in the amount you request. Then when you get the new parts take them to a qualified smith for install. I would not trust the current guy. As many have said he let that leave his shop, that means he was ok with it.
Agreed... I think if I can get those costs for the barrel, muzzle device, pin & weld, etc, which I will ask for, what I can do is just hope I can get another entire upper in stock (might take time) buy a brand new one, and part out the rail, upper receiver, etc... That way I don't have to deviate from a factory build for my main rifle. Then get another GS to do the pin and weld.
Honestly, to get this sorted correctly, if I was able to get a new upper and have to eat $200 or something of cost, I'd do it for peace of mind... If I was able, I would just buy the new upper now and get what I could back from them and parting out the leftover rail & parts should be easy in this environment, but can't stomach fronting another $900 for the upper right now, plus it's out of stock everywhere.
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I can't imagine the WHOLE barrel is ruined. Cut it off right behind the muzzle device.
You can still use that barrel. Send it to a more well known AR smith and have them cut it to 12.5 and rethread it, and open up the gas port a touch. My 12.5 middy runs great. Probably be $120-$150 plus shipping for all that.
I feel like the barrel would probably be fine 2" behind all that mess. You could then use the gas block and tube.
But everyone is right, I'd be having him refund you for everything.
Idk, thats pretty subjective. The extra 1.5" is nice to have when using a suppressor, especially at that length. My 18" AR is definitely noticeably easier to maneuver with over my 20".
You can still use that barrel. Send it to a more well known AR smith and have them cut it to 12.5 and rethread it, and open up the gas port a touch. My 12.5 middy runs great. Probably be $120-$150 plus shipping for all that.
I feel like the barrel would probably be fine 2" behind all that mess. You could then use the gas block and tube.
But everyone is right, I'd be having him refund you for everything.
Idk, thats pretty subjective. The extra 1.5" is nice to have when using a suppressor, especially at that length. My 18" AR is definitely noticeably easier to maneuver with over my 20".
Yeah I sold the 16 inch because once I got it, I quickly realized that the 1.5 inches would be way more than I thought in terms of usability with a heavy suppressor like a sandman S.. I didn't think it would matter until I handled both side by side and 14.5 was definitely preferable for me at least.
That is an interesting idea... I've never heard of a mid length 12.5.
They're becoming more popular. Especially running suppressed.
My Rainier middy barrel runs great so far, both suppressed and unsuppressed. I'm sure there is more variability with gas port size and what not, but suppressed, mine is still a tad gassy. I'll adjust the buffer weight a little and see if I can get it dialed in better for both. Unsuppressed its a clean 3 oclock ejection, locks open on empty mag with my medium reloads (55gr ~3000fps out of 20").
I know there's guys who know how to make a 12.5" middy work and why waste such a great barrel. Worst case scenario you get it smithed up, and if you don't end up making a pistol (which you should), you can always sell it.
Interesting and good info. Maybe I can just get him to buy the entire upper back from me, and he can pursue whatever he wants to offset the costs... I just wish I had my 14.5 done
Wonder if the manufacturer could do the pin/weld?
From watching people’s court, once he pays for the upper or whatever technically it’s his property.
BCM offers it done when purchasing a 14.5, but they only offer a BCM comp, and since I have a Sandman S, I opted to have it with the A2 non-pinned... So I could have my dead air one added on and pinned. Unfortunately, they don't offer to use any other muzzle devices.
Might be worth a call when you reorder, tell them what happened and ask if you can send them the comp, they might just say “sure” and you can have the new comp shipped right to them, worse they say is no.
See its not being a dick, just standing up for yourself in a polite professional manner. Good on you. I know its a pain now, but you'll be happier in the end.
Thank you and agreed. Assuming I can get the cost back, whether the entire upper or just the pieces F'd up, I'm just depressed thinking about how it's going to be impossible sourcing the replacements, as everywhere is out of stock especially after all the 'free money' they gave out to so many people, me not included.
That is some good news. If they refuse to help, Ask them to write out their findings and how they came to them.
if you decided to scrap this project, the gas block and rail assembly are still good. Also use a good gunsmith on the next one. ADCO is still a solid shop.
who did this work for you?
Well, I want to see how tomorrow evening goes and hear what happened, and what can be done.... And not post any names... I really hate this entire situation, but I don't want to make it worse by calling someone out. If that makes sense. I just hate this entire situation as I saved a certain budget for this build, stayed to it mostly, and after months of sourcing the parts, I'm now I'm up a creek with no rifle. I know I made the mistake of not using someone else. Just sucks...
How did you determine the 16 was a pig? You said you don't have the can yet??? The 16" ELW barrel weighs a whopping one ounce more than the 14.5. A 16" barrel with a direct thread can would weigh less and not be over 3/4" longer than what you are trying to put together.
That’s fair, after everything is said and done and the smith makes his decision please keep us updated.
Question... I know how it's going to be impossible to find the same BCM barrel, alone... It's not something they are restocking at the moment from what I can tell looking today.. would anyone recommend replacing it with this if I can find one in stock?
danieldefense.com
14.5" 5.56mm, Mid-Length, 1:7, LW
Our Lightweight 14.5” 5.56 barrel is perfect for those looking to shed a few ounces without sacrificing durability or accuracy for their AR-15 build. We Cold Hammer Forge our barrels, a process that sets us apart from other barrel manufacturers. It’s forged from 4150 Chrome Moly Vanadium...
danieldefense.com
I would take a DD barrel over a BCM every time. Others to consider are FN, Centurion, Criterion and Fulton Armory. Start a new post with your goals for the upper and how you plan to use it.Question... I know how it's going to be impossible to find the same BCM barrel, alone... It's not something they are restocking at the moment from what I can tell looking today.. would anyone recommend replacing it with this if I can find one in stock?
14.5" 5.56mm, Mid-Length, 1:7, LW
Our Lightweight 14.5” 5.56 barrel is perfect for those looking to shed a few ounces without sacrificing durability or accuracy for their AR-15 build. We Cold Hammer Forge our barrels, a process that sets us apart from other barrel manufacturers. It’s forged from 4150 Chrome Moly Vanadium...
I’m suggesting Compass Lake Engineering. Frank can fix you up with a Krieger, Bartlein or what you prefer. I’m not familiar with BCM, but I can’t imagine it being better than the brands I mentioned.
I’ve had them build a .204 upper with a Krieger, rebarrel my 6940 with a Krieger, and last fall build two pistolS (11.5”) wi Bartlein barrels. Great work, quality, and people.
I’ve had them build a .204 upper with a Krieger, rebarrel my 6940 with a Krieger, and last fall build two pistolS (11.5”) wi Bartlein barrels. Great work, quality, and people.
CHF barrels are a good choice for a work horse AR. I wouldn’t necessarily dump big money into a custom spun SS Bart or Krieger for a “non DMR” style build. DD, BCM, BA, Faxon, Rainer, AP, all make respectable chrome lined AR barrels good for beating on. Now if youre strictly going for a Precision DMR type of gun you may want to look at other options.
Thank you everyone for the responses. We will see what he says later, hopefully I at least get reimbursed for the Barrel and Flash Hider. I'll be fine with that, and take the lesson learned as a hard one to stomach BUT perhaps I can turn lemons into lemonade.
Assuming I'm left with a BCM upper Receiver and 13 inch MCMR rail, I'm going to be in the market for a new mid-length barrel. I'm set on a 14.5 or 13.7 CHF Chrome Lined, and yes I do want that size and don't want a 16, I know some people will hate on that, but my goal is a do-all AR to last.
That being said, since I'm not an experienced builder and I'm on a budget (ie, I'd like to reuse the 13 inch handguard), I'm thinking I might need some help choosing the best barrel to work with a dead air flash hider (for a sandman s that is in jail).
Barrels are hard to find these days.... But does anyone know if a Centurion 13.7 with flash hider and suppresor (eventually) will be long enough to fit on a 13 inch MCMR? Asking bc if it won't work, then I know I'm going to end up going with a 14.5 and that will narrow my options... Also if anyone knows of anywhere with a supply in stock, much appreciated!
Assuming I'm left with a BCM upper Receiver and 13 inch MCMR rail, I'm going to be in the market for a new mid-length barrel. I'm set on a 14.5 or 13.7 CHF Chrome Lined, and yes I do want that size and don't want a 16, I know some people will hate on that, but my goal is a do-all AR to last.
That being said, since I'm not an experienced builder and I'm on a budget (ie, I'd like to reuse the 13 inch handguard), I'm thinking I might need some help choosing the best barrel to work with a dead air flash hider (for a sandman s that is in jail).
Barrels are hard to find these days.... But does anyone know if a Centurion 13.7 with flash hider and suppresor (eventually) will be long enough to fit on a 13 inch MCMR? Asking bc if it won't work, then I know I'm going to end up going with a 14.5 and that will narrow my options... Also if anyone knows of anywhere with a supply in stock, much appreciated!
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