If bare buffer AR pistol is legal, having one would make it illegal to own any other AR with a stock that come off LOfrickenL.
PISTOL BRACE
- Thread starter Conrad101st
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I’m sure there are more, but 2 qualifiers that come to mind immediately are “if the brace does not possess rear surface area that facilitates shouldering” and “if the sighting system is usable when the firearm is not shouldered (for example, pistol style irons or a RMR wit no eye relief restrictions).
And didn’t one of those videos point out that moving one of these “free” SBRs into a trust was going to require sending them the actual rifle?
In response to your last question, you can’t. Only if the barrel is 16”, which means it’s a rifle. Yeah they’re not illegal, but if you own an actual pistol and the brace, you may be prosecuted. But like daylight bright Todd said, they’re not interested in law abiding citizens like you, and you can bet your life and freedom on that.
Not exactly. If you have a single SBR lower, you can have eleventy-seven short barrel uppers, so long as all of your non-SBR lowers have corresponding uppers. At least they is my understanding.
Now, you might be caught up in constructive intent if you have an AR pistol with a bare carbine receiver extension and a “parts bin” with a stock in it.
They say the gun has to already be in the trust for it to be registered as a sbr and owned by the trust. How do they know, can’t you add or remove anything you want at any time into or out of a trust without notifying anyone (nfa items excluded).
It has to be a notarized addition with a date prior to the 13th.
Your lawyer (or their paralegal) who instructed you on the specificity of items to listed in the trust is a fucking moron. A trust that just reads "muh erry-thang goes to muh boo-thang" absolutely will not work. For serialized gear, you need the serial numbers denoted.
I'm no lawyer, but I got a specific NFA Trust drafted and the lawyer was very specific on what needed to be in there and why according to assorted case law.
I recommend you seek additional legal counsel for your Trust.
Does it make the barrel 16" or longer?
If yes, then you have a rifle with a 16" or longer barrel, because math, and its no longer an SBR.
To not be SBR, barrel plus permanently attached muzzle device must be longer than 16”. I think barrel measurement starts at essentially the bolt face. Drop a dowel down the barrel on a closed bolt and mark it at the welded suppressor tip. Has to exceed 16”
And after that you use the fee schedule in US code to sue the fuck out of them for the violations of your person amd rights.
You have to measure from the closed bolt face. You’re a little over 4 inches short there.
IMHO this is a very different time then the 1968 "machine gun amnesty". I was only 3 at the time, but from what I understand it was not uncommon for folk to "trust" the .gov. Some folks took them up on it and it did turn out to be a "real" amnesty. I doubt that will happen again with the way the world is today.
This is a good video on it, worth watching.
This is a good video on it, worth watching.
Good luck with that.
You can look up how widely the qualified immunity is stretched by the court. Then look up what the average pay out is for a civil rights violation. Here's the real kick in the ass. It's paid for by the taxpayers.
Canada should be the barometer of what intent is among the usurper class for all gun ownership.
Dollars to doughnuts this fits into that plan somehow.
It's not clear that a bare buffer tube is still considered legal in all instances.
They mention that any rearward protrusion with surface area adequate to facilitate shouldering may be enough to consider something an SBR, and specifically include the term buffer tube. Then go on to say if the protrusion is required for the operation of the firearm, other criteria will be used to determine if it is intended to be shoulder fired and thus is an SBR.
So, it's conceivable that something like bare buffer tube + magnified optic would still be considered an SBR.
Administrative rule making at it's finest.
If you are handicap you might get by with it.
This is my issue with all this.
Because soon enough with continued compliance it will be "You don't need a scope over 5 power to hunt a deer!"
The tools are there to stop this, but we don't take the time to learn them.
Like I posted in the other thread, nobody can really be surprised. The brace thing was always a workaround to SBR due to a loophole they found 10 years ago so it was only a matter of time and I'm surprised it took this long. I've never known or seen a single person actually use the brace in the means that it was "intended".
The courts stretch that to comical lengths.
One judge actually used qualified Immunity to defend a city employee that was impersonating a cop to detain some folks that a local competitor didn't like and wanted pressure put on.
Qualified Immunity is something the crooked courts thought up on their own and needs to be gotten rid of for good.
The way I read it:
If you register that model and serial # within the 120 days, the factory stamping suffices as a marking and you don’t have to send it to an engraver. None of that hinges on whether you decide to put a stock on it after approval.
No. It reads to me like they are making an exception to the engraving rule in this case only and that once an SBR you can do whatever you want, keep the brace, put on a stock whatever. I am pretty sure in the FAQ they even allude to such. But none of it makes sense to me. I mean some of these I was gonna refinish anyways but if I can get by without having to do so then why wouldn’t I? I think if they stipulate that the brace has to remain on there then they can’t really claim it’s an SBR because if it’s truly an SBR and registered as such then why can you not put a stock on it? They are contradicting themselves in their own rules and it’s confusing as hell, even for us with the knowledge of such things.
Personally, I think it wise to just act like you never had a brace and register and pay the stamp. Why? Because this way you are not implicating yourself in any way and without a doubt can do whatever you want with it by registering as a traditional SBR. There’s too much unknown with this brace bullshit now. Or you could just take your chances and not do anything at all. Imo, this effects so many people that it should be the forefront of any court cases. Last I heard there was supposed to be all kinds of suits dropping today but I haven’t heard any details on any of them actually being dropped.
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That’s exactly the way I read it, but it’s not crystal clear cause normally you have to have your name or initials and city/state where it was made (in this case you being the maker, your city/state).
but that's where I respectfully disagree. As soon as I throw a dangerous stock on I no longer have a stabilizing brace on. This is in reference of question #27 in the ATF's FAQ link. https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/undefined/faqfinalrule2021r-08f-correctedpdf/download
I saw a vid today with a GOA representative talking about using Congressional Review, because it’s an “inexpensive route” to fight this. I have no faith in that route. I too have only heard crickets regarding an actual lawsuit. Hopefully some high powered attorneys are combing through it carefully to make a strong case, and that’s taking some time. This was just made public Friday, so I guess we hurry up and wait.
Maybe the legal eagles are watching the bump stock cases. If we get a 2A win on that, then the pistol brace should be easier to litigate.
How about instead of trying to scoot under the new ruling(not law), y'all grow a set of balls and just not comply.....
But my job
But my benefits
But my house
But my 3 cars
Don't worry, that will all be gone soon also.
Doc
But my job
But my benefits
But my house
But my 3 cars
Don't worry, that will all be gone soon also.
Doc
Stop giving them ideas. This is how FRT triggers got on the radar.
"Hey ATF this looks like full auto is this really okay?!"
They don't get to tell you what property you can put in your trust, LOL
If you bought a pistol and could put it in a trust why wouldn't you be able to do the same with this? They're just saying THEY won't send you a stamp for a trust.
Take it to a Class 3 FFL and start a form 4 for your individual to your trust after you're done kissing the ring.
But for fucks sake don't ask shit like "you're not saying you won't authorize any stamps for trusts anymore, are you?"
How many lowers can I use 1 brace on to get the free form 1 SBR? I mean, it'll save me a bunch of money to just register every one I have, but I'd need to find a brace first.
I'm still wondering how a tube is safer than a brace. Anything running a standard buffer will still need the tube and could be shouldered.
I'm still wondering how a tube is safer than a brace. Anything running a standard buffer will still need the tube and could be shouldered.
Sorry man, I guess I'm still not tracking. Looks to me like these are the registration options if you live in a SBR-friendly state:
- Register a braced pistol within the 120 days as an individual on the special "final rule" form 1, no $200 tax, skip the engraving, you keep possession of said weapon in its current configuration while you wait on approval. I'm not sure on the legality of immediately replacing the brace with a stock or if you have to wait on approval first.
- The old way. Register the weapon as an SBR on a traditional form 1 either as a trust or individual (best put a pistol buffer tube or 16" barrel on first), pay $200, get it engraved, wait on approval, once approved, put stock/short barrel on.
I think what you miss is that, its not that they are allowing a one time registration of braced pistols. Reality is, they now, IMMEDIATIALLY, consider your previously braced pistol as an SBR. As such, they are giving you a 120 day grace period to register it. You may as well pull the brace off it today and put a stock on, because you are no less illegal with a brace today than you are with a stock. That's the crazyness of it, the ATF waived their magic wand and declared that you now own an unregistered SBR, and they are giving you 120 days to fix it.
You’re saying in their eyes “brace = stock,” so might as well put a stock on it? I see the logic, but don’t forget who is making up the rules. Who knows if they’ll see it the same way. They are known for contradictory BS. What I saw said the brace could be replaced “once the weapon is registered.” Does that mean once the form 1 is submitted or after it’s approved? As to the engraving, I still don’t think it’s needed if it’s registered on the special eform 1 in the 120 day window, but attempting to apply logic to this mess is damn near a lost cause.
If you have an AR-15 with a brace that provides surface area to shoulder, its an SBR now. No less SBR than if it has a stock on it.
The only way I could see owning a braced AR-15 would continue to be a non-SBR would be the following:
1. Assuming the ATF considers bare pistol buffer tubs as Ok (not even sure about this)
2. You used a nylon strap ONLY to wrap around your forearm that was attached to the pistol buffer.
The above configuration, from my understanding of reading what they wrote, would be the only chance of having a braced pistol not now be considered an SBR. But....I'm not even convinced they would allow even this.
And, if your sights are unusable except when the firearm is shouldered, you may have a SBR, regardless of what is hanging off the back end…
How much area is needed to shoulder it? Do pistol buffer tubes need to be pointy now?
I mean, if they're handing out free sbr stamps I have a pile of Anderson lowers.
Surely the ATF has a way to cross reference the original configuration of the firearm on the application, right?
(Was the firearm initially sold as a pistol?) I mean, otherwise they have opened a giant hole where individuals can pour an untold number of receivers in order to obtain “free tax stamps.” Shirley, someone thought about this…Do you take possession of suppressors or SBRs when you file or when approved?
Do not disagree, that little puke up there is a real bit of work.
Surely the ATF has a way to cross reference the original configuration of the firearm on the application, right?
Every lower I've ever bought was "other". I've never bought a complete pistol. I'd venture to guess a ton of braced pistols started the same way.
Not sure if that was rhetorical or not because there are a lot of basic NFA questions getting asked, but traditionally you take possession or complete the SBR build when approved. But in this case, you already have possession of what they deem to be a SBR, so…
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