PISTOL BRACE

[Mattrmvpd]

Supposedly the FBI and ATF had a spat…. Now the ATF handles the background checks.

Per their rules (ATF) they have 88 days to approved said paperwork or its an automatic denial.

That denial after the 88 days can cause enforcement action.

Attorneys for GOA have been speaking on this specific issue.

 

[Longshot231]

 

[Longshot231]

Supposedly the FBI and ATF had a spat…. Now the ATF handles the background checks.

Per their rules (ATF) they have 88 days to approved said paperwork or its an automatic denial.

That denial after the 88 days can cause enforcement action.

Attorneys for GOA have been speaking on this specific issue.

 

[Mattrmvpd]

^ Longshot - Thanks, thats the video i was referring to.

 

[chavezz556]

Who else smells a tax grab to pay for their Ukraine money laundering

 

[LawnMM]

many of us here already have registered stuff but I’m curious as to how many of you believe that this is some kind of plan to get to know where many more things are before they go full Canada on us?

It's not feasible here. Even if they did, what do they find? 10-40 million braced AR pistols? There's more than 300 MILLION firearms in America.

Go ahead and start confiscating the braced ones and see what the other 260 million do.

No only a treasury agent can demand to see it. A cop can detain you until they arive tho. At least thats what ive been told by people i trust. Ive also shot with tons of police and never been asked to see a stamp even in home made cans

You need better people.

I don't know where you live, but every state I've looked at, and admittedly I've not looked at all of them, have laws against short barreled rifles, shotguns, etc. The state laws typically mirror the federal.

Your stamp is your permission slip. Don't produce it and you're going to be in jail, not detained waiting for a treasury agent

Pick battles worth fighting. If someone with a badge and gun asks to see it, and I think that's a pretty remote scenario, just fuckin show it to them and be in your way.

 

[NoDopes]

Pick battles worth fighting. If someone with a badge and gun asks to see it, and I think that's a pretty remote scenario, just fuckin show it to them and be in your way.

Sound a lot like "Papers please..."

 

[LawnMM]

Sound a lot like "Papers please..."

Sounds a lot better than "Turn around and put your hands behind your back."

You're an adult, do it your way and report back!

 

[SilentStalkr]

It's not feasible here. Even if they did, what do they find? 10-40 million braced AR pistols? There's more than 300 MILLION firearms in America.

Go ahead and start confiscating the braced ones and see what the other 260 million do.

You need better people.

I don't know where you live, but every state I've looked at, and admittedly I've not looked at all of them, have laws against short barreled rifles, shotguns, etc. The state laws typically mirror the federal.

Your stamp is your permission slip. Don't produce it and you're going to be in jail, not detained waiting for a treasury agent

Pick battles worth fighting. If someone with a badge and gun asks to see it, and I think that's a pretty remote scenario, just fuckin show it to them and be in your way.

That’s kind of my point. They may not know what all you have but let’s be honest here, most people that would have these are gonna have a lot more than just those. I’d wager that many of us here own at least 10 firearms, some many many times over that. It’s not really that hard to figure out that if you own one of these you likely have more on the premises. So my point being, then they could just take all you have. Does it seem likely, feasible etc.? Not really but history shows it has and can be done.

So I assume you are registering yours, if you have any? I’d say many of us already have registered stuff and could potentially store stuff in multiple locations but for most folks that’s not how this is gonna work and as of right now, those that don’t have anything registered and still live in free country, they are still the unknown. But the moment they register one of these things they become the known and the same rule mentioned above applies. Where they have one, they are likely to have many more. I dunno it still seems like an entrapment issue to me. Sadly, I’d wager that a lot of these influencers telling people to fight this stuff have likely already registered their crap.

 

[striped1]

Who else smells a tax grab to pay for their Ukraine money laundering

How is it a tax grab if they aren't charging for the tax stamp?

 

[LawnMM]

So I assume you are registering yours, if you have any? I’d say many of us already have registered stuff and could potentially store stuff in multiple locations but for most folks that’s not how this is gonna work and as of right now, those that don’t have anything registered and still live in free country, they are still the unknown. But the moment they register one of these things they become the known and the same rule mentioned above applies. Where they have one, they are likely to have many more. I dunno it still seems like an entrapment issue to me. Sadly, I’d wager that a lot of these influencers telling people to fight this stuff have likely already registered their crap.

I don't own anything illegal that needs registering.

Even if I did it wouldn't be my first NFA item so I guess I fall into your category of one of the known vs the unknown.

 

[dang472]

For those of you that think you’re finding some loophole to get free tax stamps and SBRs, do you honestly believe the ATF won’t change their parameters and rules 6 months after you voluntarily give up your info? They waited 10 years after giving express written permission to these companies and customers to own these and took it all back with a stroke of a pen. Get real guys.

 

[SilentStalkr]

I don't own anything illegal that needs registering.

Even if I did it wouldn't be my first NFA item so I guess I fall into your category of one of the known vs the unknown.

View attachment 8053632

Nothing illegal about them yet as I don’t believe it has been officially published.

 

[LawnMM]

Nothing illegal about them yet as I don’t believe it has been officially published.

Nothing illegal about mine at all

 

[Darayavaus]

I think the current SCOTUS would. By the time it gets there? God only knows.

since the mass fraudulent ballots system was never challenged by republicans when they had the power to challenge it, no republican will ever win a presidential election again, unless he is a shill installed simply for the illusion of choice.

so the entire constitution is on borrowed time, as one by one the justices drop off and are replaced by radical marxists. Enjoy this brief indian summer of individual rights; it's going quickly.

 

[dustingaunder]

I saw someone else ask but never saw an answer. What about those braced glock chassis. Do you have to SBR your Glock or can you SBR the drop in chassis? If you can SBR the chassis, there are no serial numbers or makers marks on it. I suppose you’d engrave your makers mark on it?

 

[Tx_Aggie]

I saw someone else ask but never saw an answer. What about those braced glock chassis. Do you have to SBR your Glock or can you SBR the drop in chassis? If you can SBR the chassis, there are no serial numbers or makers marks on it. I suppose you’d engrave your makers mark on it?

You have to Form 1 (“register”) the Glock.

The chassis is an accessory, like a stock, while the pistol is the firearm that the accessory converts into an SBR.

 

[Steel+Killer]

If this has been said forgive me.

So any AR with a barrel less than 16” as long as you don’t have any thing attached to the buffer tube it is considered a legal pistol correct?

The minute you put any stock on the buffer tube it is now an SBR correct?

I am just thinking wow how quickly one can take a stock on and off a AR buffer tube.

I know what I will be doing when I want a SBR and when I want a pistol

 

[W54/XM-388]

If this has been said forgive me.

So any AR with a barrel less than 16” as long as you don’t have any thing attached to the buffer tube it is considered a legal pistol correct?

The minute you put any stock on the buffer tube it is now an SBR correct?

I am just thinking wow how quickly one can take a stock on and off a AR buffer tube.

I know what I will be doing when I want a SBR and when I want a pistol

The ATF put in some things so they can still be pissy.
What kind of optics / sights to you have on it.
What is the total weight
Are there any other grip type accessories on the front handguard etc.
Is there a front handguard etc.

The new rules essentially say, we know what an SBR is when we see one we don't like.

 

[357Max]

So any AR with a barrel less than 16” as long as you don’t have any thing attached to the buffer tube it is considered a legal pistol correct?

Unless you have the Maximum Defense CQB brace. Then your screwed, cause the buffer tube attaches behind the brace adapter. Gun wont function without it. It uses a proprietary buffer/spring or JP silent capture. This would add up to a lot of $$$$ quickly.

 

[chavezz556]

How is it a tax grab if they aren't charging for the tax stamp?

Oh they will be. This is a test to see how many will be willing to turn in, register or ignore. Just like with the vax card. They wanted to push people to see how many they can get to comply.

 

[SilentStalkr]

Im amazed at all the people wanting/willing to bend the knee so easily. We all might as well just go ahead and turn everything in, all of the m cause it ain’t gonna stop anytime soon.

 

[Downtown]

If this has been said forgive me.

So any AR with a barrel less than 16” as long as you don’t have any thing attached to the buffer tube it is considered a legal pistol correct?

The minute you put any stock on the buffer tube it is now an SBR correct?

I am just thinking wow how quickly one can take a stock on and off a AR buffer tube.

I know what I will be doing when I want a SBR and when I want a pistol

If you go back to the early "AR pistol" days, BATF was interpreting (inventing) rules that called for short buffer tubes or buffer tubes without indentations for a stock to lock on. That was back in the crutch tip days, for you youngsters.

 

[gunjunkie45]

Im amazed at all the people wanting/willing to bend the knee so easily. We all might as well just go ahead and turn everything in, all of the m cause it ain’t gonna stop anytime soon.

Quite possibly, the people who don't plan to play along aren't saying much...

 

[W54/XM-388]

If you go back to the early "AR pistol" days, BATF was interpreting (inventing) rules that called for short buffer tubes or buffer tubes without indentations for a stock to lock on. That was back in the crutch tip days, for you youngsters.

I had an AR pistol back in those days, smooth buffer tube with no notches or any attachments for anything to clip on and no front handguards as well, just the raw barrel coming out of the front of the upper.

 

[darkfader]

Yep. Still have a few pistol buffer tubes. They are a tad girthier and no stops whatsoever.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

There are so many things legally wrong with this one can't see how it will ever see the light of day. I am betting a Fed judge injuncts it, then scotus rules on it and bars atf from any more of this nonsense. I am betting scotus basically says "If congress wants a law passed that is constitutional, then do so. If they want to change the constitution, then meet the criteria requires to do so if they can (they cant), and do so. Until then, stop with the nonsense."

 

[SilentStalkr]

There are so many things legally wrong with this one can't see how it will ever see the light of day. I am betting a Fed judge injuncts it, then scotus rules on it and bars atf from any more of this nonsense. I am betting scotus basically says "If congress wants a law passed that is constitutional, then do so. If they want to change the constitution, then meet the criteria requires to do so if they can (they cant), and do so. Until then, stop with the nonsense."

Yes, that’s what should happen.

 

[LawnMM]

So any AR with a barrel less than 16” as long as you don’t have any thing attached to the buffer tube it is considered a legal pistol correct?

We believe so.

But, then again...

 

[Steel+Killer]

In my neck of the woods, I don't believe there is a jury that would find a man guilty of a crime for having a SBR this or a pistol that. I am done tip toeing around bullshit laws that violate the constitution I am going to live my life as a free American and everyone else should do the same.

 

[Longshot231]

Anyone own a foreign made braced pistol? You only have two choices now. Surrender to ATF or destroy it.

 

[atomic41]

Anyone own a foreign made braced pistol? You only have two choices now. Surrender to ATF or destroy it.

And shit just got real...whoa.

 

[Long_Action]

 

[Steel+Killer]

I see PSA is only showing the JAKL that comes without the brace as being in stock, but I believe they just removed the ones that came with a brace pending the outcome of this latest ATF bullshit.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/jakl.html

 

[Doc68]

And shit just got real...whoa.

And this is how the straw finally breaks......

Doc

 

[Doc68]

Was watching this last night. They have lost their collective minds thinking people are gonna just hand over or destroy a 2k MP5.

Doc

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Was watching this last night. They have lost their collective minds thinking people are gonna just hand over or destroy a 2k MP5.

Doc

Just another of the many many issues with this rule. It's selectively applied on its face. There's so many legal issues with this thing that it makes me think they either

A: Just wanted to run it up the flag pole to say they did it and be done with it, so whoever is pushing this up there will shut up about it.
OR
B: They have some other reason they put this out knowing it will get smacked down easily, but that isn't their primary motivation in doing it anyway.

 

[earthtrekker1775]

Never forget the key point of all of this: You are all felons already... between obscure and outdated laws that are never removed from the books, bloated and incomprehensible tax laws, intentionally vague gun laws, limits on free speech, thought and expression for conservative Americans while the radical left can act like mentally ill, rabid animals and gets a free pass. The only reason you are not in prison or caught up in a decade long court case yet is because you are not on their radar yet so they have had no reason to tear through your life with a microscope.

This is what tyranny looks like. We have no real freedoms anymore, instead we have debates on the internet about how to appease our plantation masters vs how to not get their attention and how to keep the level of our enslavement at it's current state instead of losing more of our illusion. We have chosen the comfort of blind sleep instead of the unpredictability of the arena of living as free men that will not kneel to false gods, kings, or perverse and unjust laws. They will never stop encroaching and taking what is yours.

Get off your knees. Take back what is ours.

 

[wade2big]

Never forget the key point of all of this: You are all felons already... between obscure and outdated laws that are never removed from the books, bloated and incomprehensible tax laws, intentionally vague gun laws, limits on free speech, thought and expression for conservative Americans while the radical left can act like mentally ill, rabid animals and gets a free pass. The only reason you are not in prison or caught up in a decade long court case yet is because you are not on their radar yet so they have had no reason to tear through your life with a microscope.

This is what tyranny looks like. We have no real freedoms anymore, instead we have debates on the internet about how to appease our plantation masters vs how to not get their attention and how to keep the level of our enslavement at it's current state instead of losing more of our illusion. We have chosen the comfort of blind sleep instead of the unpredictability of the arena of living as free men that will not kneel to false gods, kings, or perverse and unjust laws. They will never stop encroaching and taking what is yours.

Get off your knees. Take back what is ours.

Can’t do that while backing the blue. Every fucked up thing the government does is backed by the violence of men with a badge. None of it would be possible otherwise. Tyranny is the direct result of police action, city, state, local. These men are not your friends. These men are not on your side. Their only loyalty is to the state that authorizes their paycheck from money these men help steal from your pocket by pointing a gun to your head. State sanctioned armed robbery.

Any action that would right this wrong puts all those involved in direct confrontations with any and all government employees with the front lines being badged men carrying guns for marxists one world criminals. Let that sink in. Anyone with a working brain understands the truth in this.

 

[nagantguy]

Can’t do that while backing the blue. Every fucked up thing the government does is backed by the violence of men with a badge. None of it would be possible otherwise. Tyranny is the direct result of police action, city, state, local. These men are not your friends. These men are not on your side. Their only loyalty is to the state that authorizes their paycheck from money these men help steal from your pocket by pointing a gun to your head. State sanctioned armed robbery.

Any action that would right this wrong puts all those involved in direct confrontations with any and all government employees with the front lines being badged men carrying guns for marxists one world criminals. Let that sink in. Anyone with a working brain understands the truth in this.

But, but- muh Constitution an muh sheriff- why he goes to the Lutheran church and shoots on my trap league. And just look how they protected us from riots and clot shots !!! Back the Blue- cover your car in defaced ‘merican flags .

 

[SilentStalkr]

Was watching this last night. They have lost their collective minds thinking people are gonna just hand over or destroy a 2k MP5.

Doc

$2000!!! you tripping. A B&T or an actual HK, even clones are more than that. But yeah I agree. I don’t know anyone especially with multiples that are gonna do that.

 

[1911hombre]

Anyone own a foreign made braced pistol? You only have two choices now. Surrender to ATF or destroy it.

Nothing says you have to Form 1 your foreign-made pistol under this tax-forbearance system. Just SBR your MP-5 or whatever under the conventional Form 1. $200....big deal. As far as the foreign-made pistol being "braced", well, it isn't.

 

[redhooker]

Nothing says you have to Form 1 your foreign-made pistol under this tax-forbearance system. Just SBR your MP-5 or whatever under the conventional Form 1. $200....big deal. As far as the foreign-made pistol being "braced", well, it isn't.

The issue is the foreign made pistols can NOT be classified as legal SBRs no matter what stamp you apply for. Rifles such as the AK or MP-5 must be assembled in the USA as well as contain enough US made parts to be 922 compliant.

The ATF is saying if ANYONE added a brace to a foreign made pistol (user or manufacturer) it is NOT eligible to just remove the brace and return to pistol status. It must be surrendered or destroyed.

 

[1911hombre]

The issue is the foreign made pistols can NOT be classified as legal SBRs no matter what stamp you apply for. Rifles such as the AK or MP-5 must be assembled in the USA as well as contain enough US made parts to be 922 compliant.

The ATF is saying if ANYONE added a brace to a foreign made pistol (user or manufacturer) it is NOT eligible to just remove the brace and return to pistol status. It must be surrendered or destroyed.

Nonsense like this is why it's not been published yet. Laughably full of holes. There's never been an issue SBR-ing foreign-made pistols. The way it's presented this new rule only applies to "braced" pistols.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

I think it says an optic with eye relief that is only functional if the weapon is shouldered, indicating intent to be shouldered.

Also....completely fucking stupid iggernant retarded because:

 

[Tx_Aggie]

The issue is the foreign made pistols can NOT be classified as legal SBRs no matter what stamp you apply for. Rifles such as the AK or MP-5 must be assembled in the USA as well as contain enough US made parts to be 922 compliant.

The ATF is saying if ANYONE added a brace to a foreign made pistol (user or manufacturer) it is NOT eligible to just remove the brace and return to pistol status. It must be surrendered or destroyed.

Yep.

Any FFL with imported braced pistols in inventory would be expected to surrender or destroy them. They could not be able to just remove the brace and sell the firearm without it. And ATF can easily obtain records of these from manufacturers and distributors.

And ATF can use these same records to trace these guns to the FFLs who sold or transferred them to the first owner. Then track that person down via the 4473 to facilitate destruction or surrender of the firearm (assuming that person is still in possession). This would be a massive hassle for the folks who work in the field (and something I'm betting many of them do not want to do). I'm also not saying this is something ATF would do, but they certainly could attain the information necessary to attempt it.

Folks who added a brace themselves will be a different story, and they could conceivably destroy the brace, make the pistol 922r compliant, and then Form 1 it into a legal SBR via the traditional route (paying the $200 tax) without ever mentioning the brace to ATF.

 

[1911hombre]

YUP^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.Also, persons who bought an unbraced foreign-made pistol and NEVER ADDED A FUCKING BRACE TO IT could SBR it on a traditional Form 1 and pay the crown.

 

[SilentStalkr]

Yep.

Any FFL with imported braced pistols in inventory would be expected to surrender or destroy them. They could not be able to just remove the brace and sell the firearm without it. And ATF can easily obtain records of these from manufacturers and distributors.

And ATF can use these same records to trace these guns to the FFLs who sold or transferred them to the first owner. Then track that person down via the 4473 to facilitate destruction or surrender of the firearm (assuming that person is still in possession). This would be a massive hassle for the folks who work in the field (and something I'm betting many of them do not want to do). I'm also not saying this is something ATF would do, but they certainly could attain the information necessary to attempt it.

Folks who added a brace themselves will be a different story, and they could conceivably destroy the brace, make the pistol 922r compliant, and then Form 1 it into a legal SBR via the traditional route (paying the $200 tax) without ever mentioning the brace to ATF.

Several things tho. No way they’d ever be able to know who braced their pistol and when, if it was originally sold as just a pistol. What about someone who bought it as a pistol, added a brace and then sold it to someone else? Too many damn issues and unknowns here on many levels.

As far as making things 922r compliant, I’m not even sure there are enough B&T parts out there made in the US to make them compliant. Same goes for the stribog and a myriad of other foreign made pistols that cost a mint, as a pistol!

Regardless, to my knowledge, none of this has been published yet.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

I’m sure there are more, but 2 qualifiers that come to mind immediately are “if the brace does not possess rear surface area that facilitates shouldering” and “if the sighting system is usable when the firearm is not shouldered (for example, pistol style irons or a RMR wit no eye relief restrictions).

Again.
A first year law student can beat that premise in court.
I could call 100 expert witnesses out of my personal contacts.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

There's no way they abolish the whole ATF, that was just wasted effort and stupid grandstanding. If they were serious they'd go after the regulations directly. Make suppressors purchasable with just a background check like guns, pass a law so SBR's are classified and treated like every other gun, etc. Even that's an uphill battle, if for no other reason than it's almost $1 billion a year into the general fund in taxes and if there's one thing politicians love it's getting $ to spend.

The fact that the ATF handles explosives, federal licensing for explosives, federal licensing for gun dealers, etc. along with arson, illegal trafficking of alcohol and tobacco, means you'll never see nation wide support to get rid of them. You'd have a better chance getting people as a whole to support abolishing congress

They can't even get any traction for years on the simple concept that suppressors are a good thing because they preserve your hearing, especially when used indoors.

They had that chance when they controlled two branches of our oligarchy. They made HPA act disappear with an efficiency that would make Houdini take notes.
You know who went along with them burying the HPA? The N fucking RA. Quislings the fucking lot of them.