POF and my Incredibly Disappointing Experience......

[lawofsavage]

That’s pretty much a truism in life bro. Don’t talk the talk unless you’re Willing to walk the walk haha. Obviously, some people are gamblers and don’t mind bluffing occasionally. He already said that none of the options Pof offered are acceptable to him, so this is another option, which could potentially require Pof having a licensed attorney defend them depending on the state and local rules while the op could represent himself pro se. Pof already admitted that the barrel is defective and should be covered under warranty.

 

[lawofsavage]

If they can't repair the product, they need to replace it with something equal, or refund you. 5.56 is not equivalent or close to 6.8SPC. I would kindly ask them for a fully refund if they can't repair it.

You can also file a complaint with the BBB.

I wouldn't threaten them with legal action, unless you are committed to following through with it. Many companies have a policy of stopping all discussions and passing it to their legal team when someone threatens legal action.

I very much doubt a company pof’s size has an in house “legal team”. Given the emails laying out the options offered up to this point and admitting the Barrel is defective, other than potentially taking longer to resolve, I see very little risk in getting a worse result by requesting a full refund before filing a complaint. It’s not really a “threat”.

 

[Wrongtarget]

Scam artists, class action lawsuit, and attorneys. LOL. Small claims court at best.

 

[bigjake83]

Wow; what f#cking SCUMBAGS. Frank Desomma MUST BE A REAL POS.....Leadership starts st the top. It’s one thing to treat civilians like crap but a police force? God that guy must be hated by so many people....

I’m amazed that they are still in business. They make shiny stuff bUT GOD THOSE PEOPLE ARE EVIL

I'm not sure if anybody has replied to you about this but you don't have to use a piston system you can easily just convert it to a DI system and pick a barrel and BCG of your choosing. As a retired vet myself if you pay for the parts I'll do it for you.

Unless there's something I'm missing about the older model you own everything should be similar with the exception of the barrel and bolt carrier group.

I'm not sure if you're aware of this but the one of the original GAP10 rifles from GA Precision was made off of POF receivers and was converted to DI, and it's still one of the most accurate AR on the market to date.

I'm sure you can make one hell of a 6.5 Grendel or Valkyrie with 85% the parts on your current gun.

Either way it's unfortunate for you to have to go through this but it's not the end of the world, but it's definitely is a soup sandwich.

 

[RifleBlog]

Scam artists, class action lawsuit, and attorneys. LOL. Small claims court at best.

Thank you, it makes me cringe everytime I read some anonymous tough-guy internet legal expert who wants to flex his new Latin vocabulary.

OP if you want to put pressure on them:

Write a signed demand letter and have it delivered via certified mail to Frank D.

• Establish the date of purchase (attach it)
• Establish proof that their “100% satisfaction guarantee” that existed prior to purchase (print out the page, save the HTML / URL....they will take it down guaranteed)
• Cogently define the timeline of events to when you first contacted them, how many times you’ve contacted them since, how many times you’ve been to the range / ammo spent in failure
• Casually mention your regular hourly billing rate as a physician that you’ve spent “XX hours” on the phone and email and range attempting to solve this.
• Establish that you are not satisfied, that they have saddled with you a defective rifle that you are not satisfied with, and ask for a functional Valkyrie upper (pro tip: go DI and scrap their single shot piston) or a full refund.
• Give them 30-45 days from the date of receipt to deliver the goods / parts to you or that you will be filing for relief in the court.
• Sign it as your name, Dr. John Smith, MD (this implies you have money and are not to be fucked with)
• Figure out if you live in a state where you can recover small claims filing fees as the successful plaintiff.

This will almost certainly make any reasonable company cough up a refund or the parts. If they don’t, file a small claims lawsuit in your own state the day of your deadline from the letter and send them the notice of the suit.

If they are really stubborn they will immediately lawyer up and have the case elevated from small claims to Superior Court which will necessitate an attorney on your part. They’ll pay $350/hour for an attorney to read the correspondence (3 hours) and respond with a nasty letter (1.5 hours) to you threatening to chase you for attorneys fees after they win; at this point it’s probably not worth pursuing.

If they don’t, then all you really need is to attach the demand letter and exhibits (your phone and emails to POF, receipt when buying, their guarantee, etc) to your case and it should be a slam dunk.

These kinds of industry predators deserve to have the occasional customer muscle them into complying with their bullshit marketing claims (100% Satisfaction Guaranteed!!). I recently had to put Bushnell in check after they tried to completely fuck me on their Elite Tactical warranty.

 

[lawofsavage]

Instead of being passive aggressive, why don’t you say exactly what it is that made you “cringe” hahaha ... I was going to call you man or bro but I don’t want to assume your gender hahaha. I wouldn’t want you to have to start your day off with another cringe hahaha.

Also, since apparently you’re not a tough guy even though you brag about keeping companies in check and “muscling them” and you want to show off your copy and paste skills on how to write a demand letter hahaha, why don’t you explain to everyone, without knowing the specific state or local rules that would apply, the specific legal mechanism which would allow anyone in small claims court to: “immediately lawyer up and have the case elevated from small claims to Superior Court which will necessitate an attorney on your part.” Obviously, they could appeal but I’m very curious how they could immediately “have the case elevated from small claims to Superior Court” unless they claim the amount at issue exceeds the jurisdictional amount for small claims.
I’m glad we have a real expert here so we can all learn from you today.

 

[USMC_JA]

One option is to request in writing via email, a full refund pursuant to their 100% satisfaction guarantee as they have admitted that they sold a defective product and that they are no longer able to replace the product that was originally purchased. And, If I don’t receive a refund within the next ten days, I will file a complaint in small claims court.


Might as well make them sweat a little while you decide what to do and who knows it may work but I’m sure they’ve heard it all before if this is how they treat people.

ETA: no one can really say if you “need” an atty or not if you decide to go the small claims route but a lot of times in small claims court especially the judges treat you better if you’re pro se haha or are at least a little more sympathetic towards a pro se plaintiff/litigant. Also, I’m not sure where you live but in most states, it’s considered unauthorized practice of law for a corporation to represent itself/ a non-attorney to appear pro se on behalf of a corporation but it’s not unlawful for an individual to represent themselves pro se.

I don't think the threat of small claims court is going to make POF "sweat." It may trigger a refund if POF views it as a nuisance case and simply wants to avoid the hassle. But this case is no real threat to the company.

A couple of things about small claims court. One, if you want to proceed in small claims court, to get any real traction, OP will likely have to sue POF in the county in which POF is headquarter and/or has its principle place of business. That means travel (and expenses for OP)...unless he lives near them. While one technically CAN sue POF in a foreign state (again, assuming OP doesn't live near them), POF could simply ignore the suit, let OP take a default judgment and then OP STILL has to exert more energy and money trying to collect in POF's home state. Otherwise, the judgment is worthless. Oh, yeah. And POF may hire a lawyer to challenge the validity of the default judgment. This means more time and effort. POF will know all this. In sum, small claims court leads to more time and money out of pocket with an unknown outcome.

That being said, IF you sue them in POF's backyard, they will most likley have to hire a lawyer to answer the lawsuit. In most jurisdictions, as stated, a corporation cannot defend itself pro se. If POF then decides to make a business decision, they might, indeed, give you a refund because it will likely be cheaper than lawyering up. The danger is that POF may decide (as some businesses do) that they'd rather pay a lawyer than pay you.

Again, and for the reasons I've already stated, I fail to see how all this is worth the time, money, and energy. Get them to rebarrel the gun, dump it on the open market, and spend your time doing something enjoyable.

 

[Snuby642]

Maybe in the lawsuit you could get the judge to have the company change thier name to POS ?

 

[lawofsavage]

100% agree with you that “sweat” was the wrong word choice. Replacing one rifle which appears to be what the OP wants for sure won’t make them sweat at all but it could help people in the future not be jerked around by them as much potentially if this happens more often than accepting the options Pof has laid out. Also, I reacted more strongly than I normally would because it happened to a vet and it’s close to Memorial Day but at least they admitted it was a bad Barrel and offered a 5.56 upper. I think since it’s a vet they should go out of their way to get him the 6.8spc that he wants especially considering he originally purchased a 6.8spc and there is a 100% satisfaction guarantee. Personally, I’d be tempted just to accept the 5.56 option because I wouldn’t consider it worth my time but I could tell it upset him and I was just “triggered” haha that they would treat a vet like that especially close to memorial like I said above.

Given the Statements to the op via email admitting the barrel is due to be replaced under warranty and the guarantee, I see very little risk of a successful appeal but you’re right about it potentially taking more time to defend an appea but that cuts both ways. Almost any atty should be able to Record a judgment and file a judgment lien for a very nominal cost and/or domesticate a foreign judgment should that be needed.

 

[Blutroop]

I’m no lawyer but it seems to me it’s his choice if he wants a small claims court or a bigger lawsuit. 12000 dollars invested with a company that isn’t honoring its warrantee seems like he could play with the big boys. I’ve spent time holding a m4 built by the cheapest bidder. I don’t have a dr. In front of my name though. I would never spend that kind of money on something I could build myself, however I would give em one more chance to honor their word and give a 6.8. I would let them know I’m serious.. then if they didn’t fix this ASAP I would spend money just to keep them from getting away with this. At least the lowest budget m4 would be fixed or replaced ASAP.. I was alway handy with 550 cord though

 

[Voyager1]

Scam artists, class action lawsuit, and attorneys. LOL. Small claims court at best.

Hey if you got screwed you wouldn’t be laughing. When it happens to you, I hope your less flippant (if u know what that means)....

 

[Voyager1]

Maybe in the lawsuit you could get the judge to have the company change thier name to POS ?

That’s HILARIOUS. I LOVE YOUR SENSE OF HUMOR....HOME RUN!!!?????????

 

[The DFC]

I had a Revolution with similar problems. I dealt with customer service and decided to just dump the rifle-and the entire company for that matter. Life is good now rifle wise.

I also call them POS lol-and have the posts here to prove it.

 

[Voyager1]

I’m no lawyer but it seems to me it’s his choice if he wants a small claims court or a bigger lawsuit. 12000 dollars invested with a company that isn’t honoring its warrantee seems like he could play with the big boys. I’ve spent time holding a m4 built by the cheapest bidder. I don’t have a dr. In front of my name though. I would never spend that kind of money on something I could build myself, however I would give em one more chance to honor their word and give a 6.8. I would let them know I’m serious.. then if they didn’t fix this ASAP I would spend money just to keep them from getting away with this. At least the lowest budget m4 would be fixed or replaced ASAP.. I was alway handy with 550 cord though

Thank you for your support. This was the total dollar amount for the number of rifles purchased; not just one. I remember 550 para cord was originally used for soldiers during WW2 and then it evolved from there. Everyone is good at something so that’s a plus. ??????

 

[Voyager1]

I had a Revolution with similar problems. I dealt with customer service and decided to just dump the rifle-and the entire company for that matter. Life is good now rifle wise.

I also call them POS lol-and have the posts here to prove it.

Wow, apparently there are a bunch of people who have been very unhappy with their rifles. ?????????? Good lord what did I get myself into.....????

 

[Voyager1]

I don't think the threat of small claims court is going to make POF "sweat." It may trigger a refund if POF views it as a nuisance case and simply wants to avoid the hassle. But this case is no real threat to the company.

A couple of things about small claims court. One, if you want to proceed in small claims court, to get any real traction, OP will likely have to sue POF in the county in which POF is headquarter and/or has its principle place of business. That means travel (and expenses for OP)...unless he lives near them. While one technically CAN sue POF in a foreign state (again, assuming OP doesn't live near them), POF could simply ignore the suit, let OP take a default judgment and then OP STILL has to exert more energy and money trying to collect in POF's home state. Otherwise, the judgment is worthless. Oh, yeah. And POF may hire a lawyer to challenge the validity of the default judgment. This means more time and effort. POF will know all this. In sum, small claims court leads to more time and money out of pocket with an unknown outcome.

That being said, IF you sue them in POF's backyard, they will most likley have to hire a lawyer to answer the lawsuit. In most jurisdictions, as stated, a corporation cannot defend itself pro se. If POF then decides to make a business decision, they might, indeed, give you a refund because it will likely be cheaper than lawyering up. The danger is that POF may decide (as some businesses do) that they'd rather pay a lawyer than pay you.

Again, and for the reasons I've already stated, I fail to see how all this is worth the time, money, and energy. Get them to rebarrel the gun, dump it on the open market, and spend your time doing something enjoyable.

I sincerely appreciate your rationale thought process. What I’m dealing with though is that I’m going to be dumping all of my POF rifles of which I have put a lot of time and energy into. However, since I have been able to vent my frustrations on this board, I have been feeling much better about it. As they say, misery loves company and I am so thankful that all of you are to support me in some small way. It may not seem like much, but it’s truly meaningful in ways u will never understand. When you think that that someone has your back in an emotional way and then they literally stab you it’s pretty brutal.

??????

 

[RifleBlog]

Also, since apparently you’re not a tough guy even though you brag about keeping companies in check and “muscling them” and you want to show off your copy and paste skills on how to write a demand letter hahaha, why don’t you explain to everyone, without knowing the specific state or local rules that would apply, the specific legal mechanism which would allow anyone in small claims court to: “immediately lawyer up and have the case elevated from small claims to Superior Court which will necessitate an attorney on your part.” Obviously, they could appeal but I’m very curious how they could immediately “have the case elevated from small claims to Superior Court” unless they claim the amount at issue exceeds the jurisdictional amount for small claims.
I’m glad we have a real expert here so we can all learn from you today.

Yeah, fuck me for trying to help the guy right?

POF is located in Arizona, Maricopa County. It's almost like I knew what I was talking about, having done this before, in that very same county.

https://www.azleg.gov/ars/22/00504.htm

22-504. Transfer to justice court
A. If any party whose rights are or may be adjudicated by an action in the small claims division, at least ten days before the time set for hearing objects to the proceedings being held in the small claims division, the action shall be transferred from the small claims division to the justice court and the provisions relating to civil actions in justice court shall apply.

I don't think the threat of small claims court is going to make POF "sweat." It may trigger a refund if POF views it as a nuisance case and simply wants to avoid the hassle. But this case is no real threat to the company.

Knowing POF and their situation (and because they are clearly willing to have their dirty laundry aired on the internet over a $200 rebarrel job) I assumed that the value proposition of hiring an attorney to answer the demand letter would leverage them to take care of the OP. I agree that it's not a huge threat, just enough of a nuisance to get the guy taken care of.

A couple of things about small claims court. One, if you want to proceed in small claims court, to get any real traction, OP will likely have to sue POF in the county in which POF is headquarter and/or has its principle place of business. That means travel (and expenses for OP)...unless he lives near them. While one technically CAN sue POF in a foreign state (again, assuming OP doesn't live near them), POF could simply ignore the suit, let OP take a default judgment and then OP STILL has to exert more energy and money trying to collect in POF's home state. Otherwise, the judgment is worthless. Oh, yeah. And POF may hire a lawyer to challenge the validity of the default judgment. This means more time and effort. POF will know all this. In sum, small claims court leads to more time and money out of pocket with an unknown outcome.

Agreed, but I think they'll cough up the parts or a refund before catching a default judgement against them. Nobody wants that on their credit.

If POF then decides to make a business decision, they might, indeed, give you a refund because it will likely be cheaper than lawyering up. The danger is that POF may decide (as some businesses do) that they'd rather pay a lawyer than pay you.

Agreed on both points.

Again, and for the reasons I've already stated, I fail to see how all this is worth the time, money, and energy. Get them to rebarrel the gun, dump it on the open market, and spend your time doing something enjoyable.

Sometimes you just want to see them hurt

 

[Voyager1]

Thank you, it makes me cringe everytime I read some anonymous tough-guy internet legal expert who wants to flex his new Latin vocabulary.

OP if you want to put pressure on them:

Write a signed demand letter and have it delivered via certified mail to Frank D.

• Establish the date of purchase (attach it)
• Establish proof that their “100% satisfaction guarantee” that existed prior to purchase (print out the page, save the HTML / URL....they will take it down guaranteed)
• Cogently define the timeline of events to when you first contacted them, how many times you’ve contacted them since, how many times you’ve been to the range / ammo spent in failure
• Casually mention your regular hourly billing rate as a physician that you’ve spent “XX hours” on the phone and email and range attempting to solve this.
• Establish that you are not satisfied, that they have saddled with you a defective rifle that you are not satisfied with, and ask for a functional Valkyrie upper (pro tip: go DI and scrap their single shot piston) or a full refund.
• Give them 30-45 days from the date of receipt to deliver the goods / parts to you or that you will be filing for relief in the court.
• Sign it as your name, Dr. John Smith, MD (this implies you have money and are not to be fucked with)
• Figure out if you live in a state where you can recover small claims filing fees as the successful plaintiff.

This will almost certainly make any reasonable company cough up a refund or the parts. If they don’t, file a small claims lawsuit in your own state the day of your deadline from the letter and send them the notice of the suit.

If they are really stubborn they will immediately lawyer up and have the case elevated from small claims to Superior Court which will necessitate an attorney on your part. They’ll pay $350/hour for an attorney to read the correspondence (3 hours) and respond with a nasty letter (1.5 hours) to you threatening to chase you for attorneys fees after they win; at this point it’s probably not worth pursuing.

If they don’t, then all you really need is to attach the demand letter and exhibits (your phone and emails to POF, receipt when buying, their guarantee, etc) to your case and it should be a slam dunk.

These kinds of industry predators deserve to have the occasional customer muscle them into complying with their bullshit marketing claims (100% Satisfaction Guaranteed!!). I recently had to put Bushnell in check after they tried to completely fuck me on their Elite Tactical warranty.

Wow that’s pretty solid information. Thank you sir!

 

[Voyager1]

I'm not sure if anybody has replied to you about this but you don't have to use a piston system you can easily just convert it to a DI system and pick a barrel and BCG of your choosing. As a retired vet myself if you pay for the parts I'll do it for you.

Unless there's something I'm missing about the older model you own everything should be similar with the exception of the barrel and bolt carrier group.

I'm not sure if you're aware of this but the one of the original GAP10 rifles from GA Precision was made off of POF receivers and was converted to DI, and it's still one of the most accurate AR on the market to date.

I'm sure you can make one hell of a 6.5 Grendel or Valkyrie with 85% the parts on your current gun.

Either way it's unfortunate for you to have to go through this but it's not the end of the world, but it's definitely is a soup sandwich.

Dude, your so kind. I’m super appreciative however I would NEVER ask someone to do something for me that I couldn’t do for myself.having said that, God bless you. Your a kind a soul....

 

[lawofsavage]

Assuming the OP chooses to file in Maricopa County, your post was still factually incorrect. It would be an incorrect statement to say that a party to an action in the small claims division of maricopa county may transfer the action to the superior court as of right. I am not familiar with the local rules in Maricopa county but you have already shown you are more than willing to put out factually incorrect information as the rules allow a transfer to justice court as of right not the superior court. A similar rule definitely does not exist in all jurisdictions. Nice try though. Solid effort points even if you were wrong.

Might try familiarizing yourself:http://www.azcourts.gov/portals/74/rcipljc/0928/jcrcp09232011.pdf

Yeah, fuck me for trying to help the guy right?

POF is located in Arizona, Maricopa County. It's almost like I knew what I was talking about, having done this before, in that very same county.

https://www.azleg.gov/ars/22/00504.htm





Knowing POF and their situation (and because they are clearly willing to have their dirty laundry aired on the internet over a $200 rebarrel job) I assumed that the value proposition of hiring an attorney to answer the demand letter would leverage them to take care of the OP. I agree that it's not a huge threat, just enough of a nuisance to get the guy taken care of.



Agreed, but I think they'll cough up the parts or a refund before catching a default judgement against them. Nobody wants that on their credit.



Agreed on both points.



Sometimes you just want to see them hurt

 

[Voyager1]

Assuming the OP chooses to file in Maricopa County, your post was still factually incorrect. It would be an incorrect statement to say that a party to an action in the small claims division of maricopa county may transfer the action to the superior court as of right. I am not familiar with the local rules in Maricopa county but you have already shown you are more than willing to put out factually incorrect information as the rules allow a transfer to justice court as of right not the superior court. A similar rule definitely does not exist in all jurisdictions. Nice try though. Solid effort points even if you were wrong.

Might try familiarizing yourself:http://www.azcourts.gov/portals/74/rcipljc/0928/jcrcp09232011.pdf

I don’t want this to turn into a place where we become a circular firing squad. I LOVE ALL YOU MORE THAN YOU KNOW. ITS ALMOST LIKE YOUR MY FAMILY as I NEVER HAVE PEOPLE THAT WERE WILLING TO STAND UP FOR ME. Thank you

 

[RifleBlog]

Assuming the OP chooses to file in Maricopa County, your post was still factually incorrect. It would be an incorrect statement to say that a party to an action in the small claims division of maricopa county may transfer the action to the superior court as of right. I am not familiar with the local rules in Maricopa county but you have already shown you are more than willing to put out factually incorrect information as the rules allow a transfer to justice court as of right not the superior court. A similar rule definitely does not exist in all jurisdictions. Nice try though. Solid effort points even if you were wrong.

Might try familiarizing yourself:http://www.azcourts.gov/portals/74/rcipljc/0928/jcrcp09232011.pdf

You're correct, I apologize, I meant to say justice and typed superior. Semantics.

Regardless, the right does exist and it's the first move that any smart business will make when they're sued in small claims here.

 

[lawofsavage]

You're correct, I apologize, I meant to say justice and typed superior. Semantics.

Regardless, the right does exist and it's the first move that any smart business will make when they're sued in small claims here.

100% agree with that. It's a huge advantage for a pro se litigant for the normal rules of civil procedure not to apply.

 

[Voyager1]

I’m a bit lost because I’m not a lawyer.,, BUT THANK U BOTH

 

[RifleBlog]

100% agree with that. It's a huge advantage for a pro se litigant for the normal rules of civil procedure not to apply.

If nothing else, I appreciate that a group of people with diverse skills and knowledge collaborated on this thread with the goal of shitting on POF.

 

[7WSMShooter]

Dealt with their crappy products before. Dealt with Frank before. Lessons learned.
I don’t care who says this or that about POF or supports them. After spending the money for two of their first 308s released years ago and the BS that ensued with the wait times, changing parts out from what it was ordered with to what it shipped with, and accuracy problems, top rail sliding off the receiver under recoil, etc, etc fucking etc. I wouldn’t have one of their rifles if you gave it to me.
And would honestly feel bad about selling it because the next poor bastard would have to deal with it.

 

[Wrongtarget]

Hey if you got screwed you wouldn’t be laughing. When it happens to you, I hope your less flippant (if u know what that means)....

Lol. I’m not the one that bought 12k of their product....If you know what that means.

 

[aard3]

I very much doubt a company pof’s size has an in house “legal team”. Given the emails laying out the options offered up to this point and admitting the Barrel is defective, other than potentially taking longer to resolve, I see very little risk in getting a worse result by requesting a full refund before filing a complaint. It’s not really a “threat”.

I didn't specify "in house"... those are your words, not mine. A company of that size no doubt has access to legal counsel for various business purposes, whether it be in house or an outside firm. i.e. "legal team"

I also didn't refer to asking for a refund as "a threat". I actually recommended asking "kindly" for a full refund. I cautioned against threatening legal action (e.g. lawsuits and small claims court), unless the OP was committed to following through with it. Since in my experience companies often will clam-up and cease communications when legal action is brought up.

 

[45.308]

Believe me, this sucks and I feel your pain, very deeply. There is not a whole lot for you to do other explain your displeasure, make your requests and take notes.

I have no dog in this fight, I am not a legal expert and could be wrong in it all as I am sure someone will call it out but from experience:

Contact BBB, not much can be done but its on file.
The States attorney, its doubtful they are interested but at least you did.
Small claims, is it worth your time, money and effort for a $300 barrel?
Sue, most companies have their policies reviewed and approved by lawyers for their protection and companies have that lawyer on retainer who can legally defend the policy. While it may not be want you want, are they in good faith within company policy. $350 an hour of your money for an attorney to sue for a $300 barrel plus a couple $k. This could be the show stopper.
Not sure how you get recouped for all your rifles because of a single barrel issue but anything is possible.
Does the state have a lemon law? If so, have you allowed the company to try to repair the warranty within their warranty policy. How many times has the product been repaired and its still an issue.
Is there a safety issue Vs just product issue.
Flaming a company on the interweb may or may not help.

Every company to include all firearm manufactures have warranty and customer satisfaction issue time to time, no company is 100% perfect.

This is a stuff spot to be in, good luck and I mean that!

 

[Voyager1]

I didn't specify "in house"... those are your words, not mine. A company of that size no doubt has access to legal counsel for various business purposes, whether it be in house or an outside firm. i.e. "legal team"

I also didn't refer to asking for a refund as "a threat". I actually recommended asking "kindly" for a full refund. I cautioned against threatening legal action (e.g. lawsuits and small claims court), unless the OP was committed to following through with it. Since in my experience companies often will clam-up and cease communications when legal action is brought up.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I’m actually surprised that this post received so much traction. This company has obviously hurt quite a few people (those who haven’t and some who have have), made themselves known. I’ve personally made a decision.

This Post surprisingly has taken far more time than I anticipated! It’s great knowing that there is so much love and support from my fellow shooters out there. That means the world to me. just following up on see responses has been very therapeutic.

I’m going to request that they re-barrel my rifle and replace the gas block. As a consolation it is my hope that they will at least give me a “better” Trigger that what came with my rifle......

Whatever POF decides, I’ll be certain to follow up with everyone here that has been so kind and supportive to me. You all are the salt of the earth and make this board really special. Ultimately, I’ll turn the outcome of all this over t

If the CEO knew this was going on I would bet he’s probably really angry. His subordinates that are making these decisions have to live with themselves and while maybe they have made a lot of money; I suspect that should they continue to burn customers, they will, in the not too distant future not have much of a business left (they will be swallowed up by bankruptcy and debt). There are far too many companies that make too many great AR 15’s and AR 10’s for people to put up with substandard rifles and services.

With most gracious appreciation and kindest regards to everyone,

Doc David MD PHD

 

[gopherslayer]

I’ll say it again. Either find someone to do a barrel for you to use the existing piston system or as mentioned above scrap it and go DI. If you go DI sell the piston system to recoup some money. Then move on from POF and don’t give them anymore money. Unless of course you’re bored and want to debate on here what to do.

 

[AZgeek]

After reading this, I'd never buy from them. I'd take up Big Jake on his offer but pay for the parts. Then you can start a new thread about fixing their crap. More bad public press is what they don't want and will hurt them more than any legal action.

 

[Voyager1]

After reading this, I'd never buy from them. I'd take up Big Jake on his offer but pay for the parts. Then you can start a new thread about fixing their crap. More bad public press is what they don't want and will hurt them more than any legal action.

I agree. Do you believe they are aware of these posts?

 

[Lowlight]

I was talking to Frank this AM, he is aware, I sent him a link

 

[AZgeek]

Well they are now! Good to have our Frank involved but this should't have been necessary. So start thinking about next steps. IMHO if they agree to make good on their warranty, I would let them do so. You already have a Plan B ready thanks to Big Jake's offer.

 

[madppcs]

Tagged for the outcome of this. I have alot of hard earned money spent on their stuff.

 

[Voyager1]

As already stated, I made a decision and sent them an email. My hope is they will rebarrel my rifle, put in the appropriate adjustable gas block and I requested a better trigger. That’s it.
I don’t have this much time to devote to this anymore. I will let everyone know what happens.
Cheers

 

[lawofsavage]

I didn't specify "in house"... those are your words, not mine. A company of that size no doubt has access to legal counsel for various business purposes, whether it be in house or an outside firm. i.e. "legal team"

I also didn't refer to asking for a refund as "a threat". I actually recommended asking "kindly" for a full refund. I cautioned against threatening legal action (e.g. lawsuits and small claims court), unless the OP was committed to following through with it. Since in my experience companies often will clam-up and cease communications when legal action is brought up.

Grass is green and the sky is blue. Everyone has access to a “legal team” if they want one but normally they don’t work for free haha. I’m not trying to be a dick but I guess I just don’t understand what the practical point of what you’re trying to say is even though I don’t disagree factually even if the things you’re saying are basically truisms. Like I said before, I think it’s a good general rule not to say things whether its in a legal context or not if you don’t want to follow through with what you’re saying. Also, I don’t see how referring this to a “legal team” hurts anything. He already has a statement in writing saying the Barrel is due to be replaced under warranty. The only issue is they don’t make the Barrel in the caliber he bought anymore and they offered a different caliber. They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee if he wanted to request a refund. I could just tell he was upset about it and didn’t want him to feel like he had to be jerked around if he didn’t want to be. I probably would havent offered input Unless it was framed as a vet being jerked around over Memorial Day. There are other options but for me and for a lot of people it probably wouldn’t be worth their time over having a barrel in a different caliber. I just felt like If there was a time to go above and beyond it would have been for a vet over Memorial Day and wanted him to know he has option and people that would help if he didn’t like the options that were already offered.

 

[i556]

Thank you for the post, I was looking to buy the pof revolution in 308, I've now decided that they can keep that POS on the shelf. It's funny, I can't find any video of the pof shooting well.

 

[The DFC]

Thank you for the post, I was looking to buy the pof revolution in 308, I've now decided that they can keep that POS on the shelf. It's funny, I can't find any video of the pof shooting well.

My Revolution shot about 1 moa-for the first 5 shots-then accuracy disappeared-like off the entire target disappeared. Very frustrating. I have to say for the most part I liked the rifle aside from the nasty recoil impulse and the whole accuracy thingy I mentioned. I have a youtube vid on it but I don't think I showed any targets.

 

[i556]

Wow, initially I thought of Jp, larue, pws, radian and how I would never pay that for a 1950s designed ar platform, so I thought the price wasn't bad compared to them. I know it's difficult to get a piston gun shooting accurate but it's been done, even the di version, everyone seems to show bad results, I just can't pay that if it's not accurate. So many ppl unhappy with the POFS.

 

[FLIGHT762]

Thank you for the post, I was looking to buy the pof revolution in 308, I've now decided that they can keep that POS on the shelf. It's funny, I can't find any video of the pof shooting well.

Buy a GAP 10. I have a 2013 vintage rifle in 308 Win. that shoots amazingly well. The current ones are even nicer than mine. They changed to newer parts AFTER I purchased.

 

[FLIGHT762]

O/P, I hope POF takes care of you and you can move on to using a great rifle that will make you happy.

 

[i556]

Buy a GAP 10. I have a 2013 vintage rifle in 308 Win. that shoots amazingly well. The current ones are even nicer than mine. They changed to newer parts AFTER I purchased.

Its a bit much imo, I have aero m5 receiver set, I can buy a bartlein and trigger and get in under 2k$. Unless that Gap is super light , IDK.

 

[Voyager1]

Thank you for the post, I was looking to buy the pof revolution in 308, I've now decided that they can keep that POS on the shelf. It's funny, I can't find any video of the pof shooting well.

I have two POF 308’s that took a while to break in but once I got them tuned they shot pretty dam good. Both have Nightforce optics on them. I can’t understand why someone like myself that thought so highly of them, would throw me under the bus like a piece of garbage after I have supported them in so many ways for years...

My POF 5.56’s are P415 edge’s and while I’m not huge fan of the single stage POF trigger, besides that they ran great. My 6.8 SPC...I want everyone to understand that this was not supposed to be a let’s bash and destroy POF. I originally started this because I was so distraught and wanted to figure out a way that I could get them to honor their warranty or give me a refund or ho or what they said they would do.
I’m surprised that there is so much animosity out there towards POF....

 

[Voyager1]

O/P, I hope POF takes care of you and you can move on to using a great rifle that will make you happy.

Man I hope so too.

 

[Voyager1]

You sir w

Grass is green and the sky is blue. Everyone has access to a “legal team” if they want one but normally they don’t work for free haha. I’m not trying to be a dick but I guess I just don’t understand what the practical point of what you’re trying to say is even though I don’t disagree factually even if the things you’re saying are basically truisms. Like I said before, I think it’s a good general rule not to say things whether its in a legal context or not if you don’t want to follow through with what you’re saying. Also, I don’t see how referring this to a “legal team” hurts anything. He already has a statement in writing saying the Barrel is due to be replaced under warranty. The only issue is they don’t make the Barrel in the caliber he bought anymore and they offered a different caliber. They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee if he wanted to request a refund. I could just tell he was upset about it and didn’t want him to feel like he had to be jerked around if he didn’t want to be. I probably would havent offered input Unless it was framed as a vet being jerked around over Memorial Day. There are other options but for me and for a lot of people it probably wouldn’t be worth their time over having a barrel in a different caliber. I just felt like If there was a time to go above and beyond it would have been for a vet over Memorial Day and wanted him to know he has option and people that would help if he didn’t like the options that were already offered.

i appreciate your kind words. I never have contemplated legal action as my post was geared towards hoping to speak with others that have been able to deal with POF in a way that did not involve lawyers. I also believe a 100% satisfaction guarantee means what it’s says. It would be one thing if I actually enjoyed the rifle but it never ever shot from the factory. So in that respect I was surprised that they were so ready to throw a loyal customer overboard and tell him too bad so sad. Yes I should have dealt with it when I first bought it, but I always believed that a guarantee is a guarantee. In that respect, I do believe a refund would be warranted or a new rifle etc...

Thanks to all that have reached out in support of my circumstance.

 

[madppcs]

My Revolution shot about 1 moa-for the first 5 shots-then accuracy disappeared-like off the entire target disappeared. Very frustrating. I have to say for the most part I liked the rifle aside from the nasty recoil impulse and the whole accuracy thingy I mentioned. I have a youtube vid on it but I don't think I showed any targets.

I have a Revolution 308 and it shoots very consistent and Ive never had an issue with it. I run it suppressed 100% of the time. Looks like Im the 1% that hasnt had any problems with them in this thread, but thats also why Im wayching the thread very closely as well.

 

[deersniper]

I did. I didn’t matter. Do I have any options? See below...suing them for this is not something I want to do. good money after bad....IMHO

Theirs is is EXACTLY WHAT THEY WROTE...It sounds very lawyerly....you and everyone following this thread be the judge. There are two sides to every story and I believe in transparency....All of you be the judge and tell me your thoughts....

Doc.....

I am not thrilled with the way things are either, sadly our options are limited. I really wish that we had the opportunity to fix this years ago when we had the 6.8 and you originally knew about these issues, but that time has passed. The warranty covers the reasonable replacement of the part that is the issue, which in this case is the barrel. That would mean that we would cover a barrel and a gas block under warranty.



The problem with the .224 Valkyrie is that it has a rifle length gas system, which would leave your gas block fully exposed, which we will not do for liability reasons. We could re-rail the rifle to a 14.5” rail with no window that will have the Dictator DI gas block just barely poking out the front for $275. We would then have to get you a new BCG, which is another $275. At that point you would still have a franken-gun.



Were I you, I would take the offer to get it re-barreled into .223/5.56 and simply sell the upper. I could get you a deal instead on a brand new factory .224 Valkyrie upper for $947.99, free shipping and it would have the full Renegade+ loadout including the ambi charging handle and the lower profile handguard without being a franken-gun.



Selling the upper, since you already have a few others in .223 will easily pay for the Renegade+ upper and you could sell it in good conscience knowing that you arent offloading a problem barrel onto someone else.



Warm regards,

POF

It's a shit sandwich but you could probably sell that new barreled upper for 5-700 and not be it a ton for a new Valkyrie


I too bought a couple POFs back when they were good and used rock barrels and Gisselle triggers. Very accurate rifles. Put 4 into 2.6" wth the 5 opening the group up to 4.1" at 550 with the 308 I have. The 223s are similar.
I think things went bad when they went to a cheaper barrel supplier.

 

[4cDragon]

I would send them a 10 day demand letter (certified and normal) for a barrel replacement schedule of your rifle or you will seek legal action. If they refuse to do that then I would consider suing them in a local small claims court. You can represent yourself, but they will have to hire representation and are probably out of state. If they were smart they would buy a $300 barrel and install it in your rifle.

If they never respond you need to decide is it worth going through the steps to sue them in small claims court or would it be better for you to buy a replacement barrel, hire someone or buy the tools and install the barrel yourself.