Night Vision "Posers" in night vision

[clasky]

Ah internet forums. The place where it doesn't matter what you say or who you say it to because you are tucked safely away in your own home. You gotta love how this form of social media has made people so nasty to each other.

A recent thread has been started by another industry professional making sharp accusations at my company and specifically calling out our products. Now, let me start off by saying that I don't spend much time on this forum personally. It is outside my particular duties and responsibilities at my company. Anyone that knows me knows that I am a level-headed guy who tends to think before opening his mouth. It takes a lot to get under my skin. But, I will take exception to someone blatantly attacking my company and my work. If someone wants to have a debate on the same footing with me, I have no problem with that. But, when someone doesn't even know what they are talking about and they just start spouting off, well...

Before I go on, I would like to point out that I have personally exchanged very pleasant and productive emails with the individual in question in the past few months. so, I am a bit dismayed that he is now jumping off the deep end with both barrels blazing making accusations and publicly attacking my company and products. Personally, if I felt threatened by some unfounded rumor, I would have addressed the source to see if there was some truth. Apparently, this value is not shared by this guy and he instead chose to "frontal attack and charge."

OK, so let's look at this point by point.

1. Grade B Tubes. These are blemished tubes that didn't pass spec at the factory and therefore were deemed unacceptable by the manufacturer to be used in factory-built systems for government or commercial sale. They are sold as factory-seconds at low prices. Yes, it is true that these tubes may very well have high specs on paper. But, their blems made them rejects. Why don't we sell systems with these tubes? Easy answer: our customers deserve better and the instant gratification of buying a grade B system tends to wear off. It's pretty simple; $2,200 is still $2,200. Especially in today's economy, dollars need to stretch. I tell customers all the time that I would rather they save for a few more months and get a system that they will be happy with years from now rather than blow their money right now on impulse because they really want a toy in their hands today. I can't tell you how many people have thanked me for this advice over the years.

You see: most people can only afford to buy one night vision device and it is a stretch for them to afford it. As a responsible company, we understand the needs of the commercial market and want to make sure our customers get the most for their hard-earned money. It is much better to save for what you really want then to blow your wad early and get something that isn't quite as good.

2. Our "garage-built" systems are coated in poser Camo. This point shows a clear case of someone being "unconsciously incompetent." Basically, the speaker doesn't know enough to know that he doesn't have a clue what he is talking about. So, to mask this, he slings public insults at his competition, but ends up looking foolish. Funny, it reminds me of the current political ads from a current administration with no ground to stand on so they just spew negativity. Then, his planted friend comes along and doubles down on the ignorance by saying "BTW: if you need camo on night vision, you're doing it wrong." Face palm.

OK, I am going to address this for the sake of the forum community who needs to be presented with facts. As a Special Operations vet, I will attest to how valuable camo is on all equipment in the field. That is why we spray paint our rifles and anything else that is black. Black is an unnatural color and stands out like a sore thumb. Warfighters and LEO's have their night vision goggles mounted on their helmets during the day and night. You see, lighting conditions change on the battlefield and you have to be ready to employ your tools immediately as they do. You might be on a sun-saturated street one minute and then duck into a cave or dwelling that has no light at all. You can't stop and fuck around trying to find your goggles in a pouch on your back, fit them into the mount, properly position them so they line up on your face all while trying to keep your gun up while the rest of your team piles in with you. That's too late: you have already all been killed by the guy with the PKM inside that room. So, you wear your goggles on your helmet during the day too.

And, what's the point of wearing all that camo if you are just going to have a big black plastic thing on your head as a target? But according to some of the uninformed, the guys with camo night vision are doing it wrong. Let's take a look at some of these guys who are doing it wrong:

Here are a few photos of some guys from DEVGRU (the unit that shot Bin Laden in the face) who are apparently doing it wrong

And, we all know that the operators from U.S. Army Special Forces don't know what they are doing.

The same can be said for the Rangers. They are clearly stupid.

It's amazing how dumb SOF can be, isn't it? For crying out loud, the insanity has even spread across the pond. The SAS must be the biggest dumbasses in the world. Check out this jackass's camoed night vision. What a maroon...

Hell, it's so stupid to have your gear camoed to blend in with everything else, right? What are these guys thinking? I just want to bang my head against the wall when I see things like the photos below showing the most advanced and expensive night vision goggles available to Tier 1 units actually being molded in camo colors at the factory!

I mean, just look at this gear locker in the team room. This operator from DEVGRU who was on the raid that killed Bin Laden has every single piece of kit camoed. Why would he do that? Why? He must be a poser.

In fact, our camo goggles are so poser. Multicam is clearly nothing but poser. That's why USSOCOM has been running it for years as their standard issue. That's why the U.S. Army uses it for all troops deploying to Afghanistan. Makes perfect sense. They're all fuckin' posers.

We are all learning so much right now! Forums are fun! You get to see people who clearly don't know what they are talking about spout off without any frame of reference because they don't even understand how the gear is meant to be used.

3. Apparently the release of our TNV/PVS-14 line http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3564658#Post3564658 is meant to start a price war with this particular individual. My company does not base its business decisions and product development on the actions of other companies. We assess the market, listen to our customers, and produce innovative products. Our so-called "garage-built" systems are the result of a lot of work to provide our customers with a product they can rely on. They are built by professionals for professionals. Our customers have come to rely on TNVC for years as a provider of kit that is good to go. We don't always know if the products we sell are going to end up as someone's toy or on the battlefield, so we work towards the later. Our company is staffed by veteran Warfighters from several special operations units, as well as veteran and current SWAT officers. Our real world knowledge and expertise has helped build TNVC into one of the most trusted and respected night vision distributors in the country who specializes in taking the time to make sure our customer's needs are fully addressed.

That comes from hard work, honesty, integrity, and commitment; not from basing our business model on trying to tear down the competition and reacting to what they do. We make decisions based on what will best serve our customers, many of whom have to rely on the products they bought from us to save their lives.

Chip Lasky
TNVC, Inc.
Director of Operations

 

[HPLLC]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

I think it's just hard to find the expendable income for quality night vision.

The good units are like $4000, and mono's suck so Anvis 6's are probably the good standard for quality and they are like $8000 or more, and the quad tubed goggles which are obviously the best technology available are $65,000 (according to the author of No Easy Day) and given a choice between a down payment for a house and quad tube goggles, I think I'll buy the house.

The night vision would be cool, but without being the White-houses go to guys for killing Osama Bin Ladin, there just isn't a need.

Luckily you can get the suppressor and similar quality firearms to the same guys for a lot less than the Cadillac pimp night vision goggles.

 

[clasky]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

I agree with ya. I don't personally own any dual tube systems. Monos are very effective, but I do prefer duals when given the choice. Oh, well. I'll just have to save.

Right on about the suppressors. I am waiting on a Form4 to be approved as we speak.

 

[dumbbell]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

Clasky, i agree with your point that there is no need for the "p" word to be used when describing your competitions night vision. Name calling stopped being effective as a marketing technique to me when i turned thirteen. That being said, i saved up my duckets and when i had the choice between tnvc and your competitor i chose him. He was very informative and helpful and trustworthy, and i am not disappointed. My reasoning was based on two things. Him as a person, #1, and #2 the fact that the very first sticky you see on the night vision forum here on the hide is you mouthing pretty much every other night vision retailer. Yes, your article on pvs14's is very informative, but it would seem that you took the first shot across the bow by detailing how all these other "home-brew" systems aren't worthy to even be called night vision. Only factory built stuff is worth buying. And now oddly enough, tnvc is home-brewing their own. TNVC's obvious condescension and childishness in the most visible post on the night vision forum on the hide is why i looked elsewhere. Did I hurt tnvc's sales? Ha, not a bit. Does tnvc sell top of the line stuff? Absolutely. This is Just to maybe point to the hypocrisy of saying that somebody else took to internet forums to mouth you when me, the casual observer, sees it the other way around. Keep in mind this is all coming from a hick farmer in Arkansas with almost 40 posts, so others probably see it differently.

 

[clasky]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dumbbell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Clasky, i agree with your point that there is no need for the "p" word to be used when describing your competitions night vision. Name calling stopped being effective as a marketing technique to me when i turned thirteen. That being said, i saved up my duckets and when i had the choice between tnvc and your competitor i chose him. He was very informative and helpful and trustworthy, and i am not disappointed. My reasoning was based on two things. Him as a person, #1, and #2 the fact that the very first sticky you see on the night vision forum here on the hide is you mouthing pretty much every other night vision retailer. Yes, your article on pvs14's is very informative, but it would seem that you took the first shot across the bow by detailing how all these other "home-brew" systems aren't worthy to even be called night vision. Only factory built stuff is worth buying. And now oddly enough, tnvc is home-brewing their own. TNVC's obvious condescension and childishness in the most visible post on the night vision forum on the hide is why i looked elsewhere. Did I hurt tnvc's sales? Ha, not a bit. Does tnvc sell top of the line stuff? Absolutely. This is Just to maybe point to the hypocrisy of saying that somebody else took to internet forums to mouth you when me, the casual observer, sees it the other way around. Keep in mind this is all coming from a hick farmer in Arkansas with almost 40 posts, so others probably see it differently. </div></div>

Don't worry, I don't take offense to what you have to say. You are entitled to your opinion and interpretation. However, I would like to point out the post in question because there is nothing there that I see as condescending to any other dealer. Here is the direct quote from the guide:
<span style="font-style: italic">
As discussed earlier, there are a lot of "home brew" systems on the market. Depending on who is assembling them, they can be just as good as factory-built units or they can suck balls. Just about every night vision dealer on the internet offers some sort of "home-brew" system. In fact, the PVS-14 is one of the only monoculars that has a a factory-built unit because the manufacturer, ITT, makes the tubes and the housings. Remember when I said that ITT and L3 are the only two image intensifier tube manufacturers in the U.S.? Well, there are a lot of other night vision manufacturers who make their own housings and optics. These companies sell will use tubes from ITT or L3 to make their own night vision devices while also selling their housings/optics to dealers who will further build night vision systems.

When perusing the various dealers online, you will come across various PVS-14's with different prefixes (example: MVPVS-14, NVPVS-14, etc.). These systems are "home-brew" from the dealer whose site you are looking at. The prefixes stand for the dealer's name such as MVPVS-14 = Morovision PVS-14 and NVPVS-14 = Night Vision Depot PVS-14. We choose not put a prefix on our home-brew systems. But, if you see a PVS-14 with a prefix other than "NQ," "NE," or "AN," you are looking at a home-brew system.

The reason we sell home-brew units is because we are able to offer the customer a Data Card or Data Sheet with the device. A Data Card will tell the buyer the exact specifications for the tube they have in their night vision device. You will see the exact S:N, lp/mm, date of manufacture, etc. Data cards are akin to certificates of authenticity and prove that the tube is within spec for a particular night vision system. As mentioned earlier, the two image intensifier tube manufacturers sell their tubes to other night vision equipment companies. Whenever a tube leaves the factory without being assembled into a complete night vision device, it must be accompanied with a data card so the end manufacturer knows what he is getting. Factory-built devices from ITT and L3 do not come with data cards because they are tested and certified to be within spec at the factory.</span>

So, I am not seeing where I say that home-brews suck. In fact, I even say in the guide that we offer home-brews and that it all depends on who makes them. Every dealer offers home brew systems because most of the factory units are not available for commercial sale. The thing to look out for is who you are buying from? Are they established? What is their rep? will they be around in 5 years to honor a warranty they offer?

We deal with a lot of guys who come to us after buying home brews from "builders" who sell on ebay. They get absolutely no info on the system they bought and cannot contact the maker when it goes tits up. So, they come to us and ask us to repair the goggle they thought was such a great deal. In fact, one of my buddies in the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office in WI just got a PVS-14 back from us that we had to repair for them. The department had these goggles from a donation but had no other info. Didn't even know the tube that was in it. These are the risks taken when buying from an unknown source.

You will also notice that I mention in the article that the home-brews can be just as good as factory. Again, depends on who builds them. As for the comment about mouthing off about every other NV dealer; where do you see that? The only thing I say about others is to give examples of what some of the prefixes mean in front of PVS-14. MV stands for Morovision, NVD is Night Vision Depot, etc. Why would I bash them? We are friends with those guys, have been for years. In fact, we buy a whole lot of stuff from them. The reason for me mentioning the prefixes at all is to let people know it is a brand thing and has nothing to do with the device itself. I get people asking me all the time what the difference is between an MV/PVS-14 and Night Enforcer or an NV/PVS-14, etc. There is no difference except who built it.

So, please forgive me that I am not seeing any of your points about us being against home-brews or bashing anyone else. I explicitly say that we offer home brews in that article. But, we get a lot of questions about no-name NV all the time and people need to be educated.

I've never attacked the competitor in question. I never started anything in this fight. In fact, I've been nothing but cordial to him. So, I was a bit shocked that this comes out of the blue. No other retailer has taken this article as a shot across the bow and it has been around for years. In fact, there are several other retailers who have told me how they use it to help educate their own customers.

 

[5RWill]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

There is a reason TNVC is held to high standards around here, and in reality everywhere. It would take much more than some incompetent person spitting nonsense to tell me different. I understand the reasoning for the post though.

 

[Harvey55]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

Clasky - you don't know me, but I have spoken with you on the phone and have purchased over 7k worth of equipment from you and will spend more and am proud of it!

Thank you for your service!

 

[dumbbell]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

Clasky, i appreciate the response. I took the connatation of home-brew to be negative and a downgrade on others products, and that is the main thing that i thought seemed to be a gig at others. By your explanation it seems that i was wrong (not unusual), and i apologize. I agree, what you wrote was very informative and i have read it two or three times. That being said, the last time i read that article(four or five months ago), yall didn't offer home brews and there was nothing in there(I don't think) about you doing so. So yes, the article does have a different tone now since you also sell "home brew".

 

[clasky]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dumbbell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Clasky, i appreciate the response. I took the connatation of home-brew to be negative and a downgrade on others products, and that is the main thing that i thought seemed to be a gig at others. By your explanation it seems that i was wrong (not unusual), and i apologize. I agree, what you wrote was very informative and i have read it two or three times. That being said, the last time i read that article(four or five months ago), yall didn't offer home brews and there was nothing in there(I don't think) about you doing so. So yes, the article does have a different tone now since you also sell "home brew". </div></div>

DB- No worries, Brother. At the time, our home-brew system was our L3 PVS-14. We offered this for $2,995.00. We did this to make it more affordable for our customers than the factory units. If we had offered a factory L3 unit, the price would have been over $4K because of our cost on factory L3 systems. L3 is very proud of their factory systems. Because they did not do the volume of PVS14's done by ITT (ITT had the military contract for the AN/PVS-14), L3 could not afford to offer their PVS-14 to the commercial market to meet the Night Enforcer.

But, the economy and defense budgets change. Contracts change too. so, the market has changed. As a business, we are constantly monitoring the market and moving to develop innovative product offerings for our customers at the most affordable prices. So, we decided to invest more in the home brew market and the response has been great. If you are ever in the market for another goggle, please keep us in mind. I would love to win your business.

-Chip

 

[clasky]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

Blackops and Harvey55; thanks for the kind words and your patronage. I speak for all the families at TNVC by saying we truly appreciate it. Please keep your eyes peeled as we have more programs launching over the next several months!

 

[Harvey55]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

I do appreciate the fact that your business is there and does the quality that it does, but when I said thanks for your service, I was referring to your military service. and that goes for all the Vets on here.

A BIG THANK YOU!

 

[TNVC - Kyle]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

Thanks Harvey55!! All of us here are proud of our service. We are also proud of the continual service of all the Soldiers, Seamen, Marines and Airmen. We know what a critical job they do and, we are grateful that we can provide them with safe and effective gear. We feel the same about our LEO Brothers and our Contractors. We always keep them in mind, even when we build an item that might only be for the "non-uniformed" user. We figure, if we build it all to the standard required by the Warfighter then, it's good-to-go for everyone!

Thanks again for the kind words and, the business over the years. TNVC has grown to be a large company but, we never forget where we came from. Our same dedication towards Products and Customer Service is today, what it has always been. We know that folks can spend their hard earned money anywhere they like. We feel honored when they trust us enough, to send that business our way.

Stay Safe,

Kyle Harth
Director, Government Sales

 

[wes1]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

My camo comments were a "tongue and cheek" jab, guess it worked.....
The majority of the people on the NV boards are civilians looking to shoot varmints/pigs at night, not military/LE personal, that is issued gear. I find it comical that you justify your camo PVS14 with pictures from a SOF thread off militaryphotos.net
I will admit the "sexycam" looks good, but personally I don't need it,nor would I paint my NVDs. I have been able to stalk and kill many animals all while using a black NVD mounted on a camo helmet

The night vision market is relatively small and saturated with dealers who need to set themselves apart.That being said, do your own research people, talk to end users, then dealers.
You can find some great deals right now, especially on pre-owed, just get an inspection period.

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

Look, times change and black is going the way of the Dodo bird.

Even when I was in the USAF in the 80s the PJs painted their crap. I'd much rather have it done at point of sale, rather then use some god awful crap like Krylon. [granted, there are better options these days.]

Me, I can see times when I don't want to stick out like a sore thumb... and frankly,I can see the commercial usefulness of not worrying about black devices, and only offering green/fde/lomb/multicam units.

I own 3 PVS-14s, a PVS-27, an x200xp, a W1000-9, and alot of related crap. I wish that some of these had come in other colors.

 

[clasky]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

Black is going the way of the dodo bird. You are absolutely right. Most all of the new items the military is buying are being molded or coated at the factory in earth colors.

There are a lot of items in the hunting/shooting market that were designed for the commercial market. But, we have to keep in mind that the vast majority of night vision and related accessories are designed for the Warfighter and LE community first. Their commercial applications are an added bonus.

TNVC's experience and expertise stem from our military and LE backgrounds. These are our main markets. But, like most everything else in the shooting industry, the commercial market wants to mimic the military market. Do civilians need to run Multicam clothes, tan vests, helmets, etc? Nope. Can they still buy them, use them, and enjoy them? You bet! Does the civilian community need to have camo rifles and helmets to go hog hunting? Nope. Do they use them anyway? You bet! Does the civilian market need to have camo night vision? Nope. Are they the only market TNVC caters to? NOPE.

Everything we offer at TNVC is looked at with these questions in mind:

1. Does this product have the ability to enhance the Warfighter or LE Professional's ability to defend this country on foreign and domestic soil?

2. Given our own experience on battlefields across the globe, would we bet our own lives on this product?

This commitment to quality is what has earned us the respect of our brothers and sisters in uniform. Our experience informs our decisions. It has also captured the attention of the commercial hunting market.

Does everybody need camo goggles? Nope. That is why we made it an optional upgrade. But, there are plenty of professionals who purchase from us and understand the benefits. There are also a lot of professionals who read these forums, but do not post. But, it's unfortunate that there are some people out there who see the market with such narrow vision because that is all they have been exposed to. And, when they see something they, personally, don't have a use for, they show their ass by spouting off in a public forum, trying to tear down something they don't understand. And, when they get called out on it, they try to back-peddle.

Kinda speaks to their character.

 

[wes1]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

No back peddling here. I stand by my statements.....

 

[mos2111]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

Since you brought it up.
I noticed that the TNVC company address is listed as 25612 Barton Road #328 Loma Linda, CA 92354-3110. When I look at some maps I see the following:
Google a la Feb 2011 - a strip mall
Bing a la 2012 shows a "mail choce" sandwiched between wh cigars and cigarets and the indo mart.
So, the assembled units probably arent built in PO box #328. So if they are not built in a garage, where are they built?
I was just a regular Marine. My NODS were and are black. Never seemed to be an issue.

ETA: and speaking of the commercial hunting market and pvs 14 kits- from a thread in March when vic was speaking on a different forum.

"...The same gang who now sell a generic shop built "Beyond Mil-Spec" PVS-14 ... These knock-ff type kits may be satisfactory for the gang and their pig hunter counterparts...."

 

[clasky]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

Mos2111 -

Thank you for your service. There is no such thing as "just a regular Marine." All service in all branches is honorable and none should be held to higher degree than any other. We are all on the same team, working to protect our country and her allies from those who would do harm to innocents.

As for the address on our website; you are quite astute. The address does indeed lead to a Mail Choice center. There are several reasons for this.

1. We are a high-end distributor of night vision and related tactical accessories. Thus, our inventory is composed of high-dollar items. Many would-be thieves actually case business online first, getting an idea of who might have things worth stealing. So, we don't want to publicly broadcast our main office and warehouse's location.

2. We are not a store-front business. We do not have retail counter tops and a cash register. Thus, we are not set up for walk-ins. If we were to advertise the main office's actual location, we would have all sorts of folks just showing up off the street wanting to look through night vision. That is not our core business. That is why we have dealers who have shops for you to come browse and talk about gun shop stuff. We offer appointments to select clients.

3. We are a national company with offices and facilities in several states across the country (West Coast, Midwest, and East Coast). This allows us to better and more efficiently serve our government customers and dealer network. All items ship out of the warehouse in California. But, we are not about to list the addresses for all our offices. What is the point in that?

As for the location of our goggle building facility, it is at the corner of "Stop Trolling Lane" and "None Of Your Business Avenue." The reason we decided to set up shop there can be found in the three points above.

Mos, your post is as pointed as it is transparent. You and the rest of your gang can keep trying to tear us down, but all it accomplishes is to make you look desperate and foolish. And, all ya'll have to show for it is being banned from other forums for this sort of behavior. Let it go.

 

[TNVC - Kyle]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mos2111</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since you brought it up.
I noticed that the TNVC company address is listed as 25612 Barton Road #328 Loma Linda, CA 92354-3110. When I look at some maps I see the following:
Google a la Feb 2011 - a strip mall
Bing a la 2012 shows a "mail choce" sandwiched between wh cigars and cigarets and the indo mart.
So, the assembled units probably arent built in PO box #328. So if they are not built in a garage, where are they built?
I was just a regular Marine. My NODS were and are black. Never seemed to be an issue.

ETA: and speaking of the commercial hunting market and pvs 14 kits- from a thread in March when vic was speaking on a different forum.

"...The same gang who now sell a generic shop built "Beyond Mil-Spec" PVS-14 ... These knock-ff type kits may be satisfactory for the gang and their pig hunter counterparts...." </div></div>


Nice of you to join in. We figured you would show up. No one actually brought up this topic but, since you did...

I, personally, supervise and participate in the manufacturing of this product. As the Director of Government Sales and, a former ITT (now Excellis) employee, it falls under my purview. I played an integral part in the Omni VII and fusion systems which, again, is one of the reasons I oversee this program. I also proudly served a long career as an Infantryman and a Special Forces soldier. However, I wouldn't really call my service "regular" as I feel like I was part of a distinguished and honorable group of individuals who were responsible for defending this Country and our freedoms in multiple conflicts around the world. To call that regular would belittle my service and the service of all the other Patriots who have defended our freedoms.

As for the location of our manufacturing facility, you should probably refer to Chip's post which, I believe, is the most succinct answer that could be delivered. However, we have spent the better part of the beginning of this year, moving to our new, primary location and, preparing that location to house the 3000+ items that we stock, sell and ship. It also serves as our primary operations center, where our Sales and Warehouse staff have offices. Manufacturing and Maintenance operations take place there, as well as at both of our East Coast Offices. They are staffed by knowledgeable individuals who have a vast amount of experience with the manufacture and repair of night vision devices. If you had a genuine interest and reason to know where that was, we would tell you. The thing is, you are not our customer. You are a "mud-slinger" and a "pot-stirrer". This forum is for the active sharing of meaningful information and opinions. Neither of which you did. You just sat behind the veil of an internet forum and threw daggers. Personally and professionally, we don't appreciate it. Neither do the predominant amount of forum members who would prefer to spend their time reading something far more meaningful than what you came up with on Bing. Find something more useful to do with your time.

 

[SkyPup]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mos2111</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since you brought it up.
I noticed that the TNVC company address is listed as 25612 Barton Road #328 Loma Linda, CA 92354-3110. When I look at some maps I see the following:
Google a la Feb 2011 - a strip mall
Bing a la 2012 shows a "mail choce" sandwiched between wh cigars and cigarets and the indo mart.
So, the assembled units probably arent built in PO box #328. So if they are not built in a garage, where are they built?
I was just a regular Marine. My NODS were and are black. Never seemed to be an issue.

ETA: and speaking of the commercial hunting market and pvs 14 kits- from a thread in March when vic was speaking on a different forum.

"...The same gang who now sell a generic shop built "Beyond Mil-Spec" PVS-14 ... These knock-ff type kits may be satisfactory for the gang and their pig hunter counterparts...." </div></div>

In my book, that is a pretty cheap shot.

If you let me know which NV company you are associated with, I will be more than happy to take my business elsewhere....

 

[sandwalk3r]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

All I know is that Vitor at TNVC took care of me like a customer would want to be taken care of. Dropping the dough on a top PVS14, OpsCore, Wilcox etc isn't cheap, but I wouldn't have sent it anywhere else.

There's TNVC and the "other guys" as far as I'm concerned. Haters gonna hate.

(and when is the TNVC clip-on coming out? I want to spend more...)

 

[Harvey55]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

+1

I am waiting on TNVC to come out with the clip-on myself!

 

[mos2111]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

skypup, you know as well as i do that I am not in the industry and i know as well as you do that you are already a big tnvc guy.
chip- this is why i have nothing against you, you sir are a class act and that is honest. and we've met before.
Kyle, I think perhaps the title of this thread and content escaped you. posers and internet drama aren't really technical in nature. but I'm such a problem, by simply asking where units are assembled that I got everyone but dino and the boss out.
maybe a response on the coating methodology of yalls units would be more along the lines of this forum. so cerakote or dipped or other?
next time put it in the pit where it belongs not as a percieved advertising tool in a tech forum...

 

[TNVC - Kyle]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mos2111</div><div class="ubbcode-body">skypup, you know as well as i do that I am not in the industry and i know as well as you do that you are already a big tnvc guy.
chip- this is why i have nothing against you, you sir are a class act and that is honest. and we've met before.
Kyle, I think perhaps the title of this thread and content escaped you. posers and internet drama aren't really technical in nature. but I'm such a problem, by simply asking where units are assembled that I got everyone but dino and the boss out.
maybe a response on the coating methodology of yalls units would be more along the lines of this forum. so cerakote or dipped or other?
next time put it in the pit where it belongs not as a percieved advertising tool in a tech forum... </div></div>

Nice try at a backpeddle to make yourself look better. You even tried to pull others into the fray. Transparent, childish drivel. Fact is, you actively support other industry members and you actively show disrespect and disdain for us. You make it a point to try and derail our posts and that is your MO. That is a fact and can be seen on theirs and our, historical posts. That is why you don't get the answers you are looking for. We spend time servicing <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">our</span></span> customers. You won't ever be one. That is completely OK. You work hard for your money and you can spend it wherever you like. I am happy that you choose to spend some of it with members of The Hide. That is good for the forum and, good for those other manufacturers and resellers. It is the reason why industry members choose to advertise here. It also gives us the luxury, just like the industry folks that you support, to place our advertising where we see fit. We do it, to reach customers. This post was a response, that was designed to clarify information to our customers. We always want to make sure that they have some facts at their disposal. Especially when bad, or spiteful, information is put out. If you really thought it was inappropriate, you would have admonished the other advertisers. You didn't. Again...transparent.

I will address the question on coating, as it was relevant: It is hydro-dip. At least, the pattern transfer part of it is, to be more accurate. This, unlike some of the other types of coatings (like Ceracote), allows the best definition of the pattern. We chose this method for that purpose and for it's durability. We add a few steps, to ensure the latter.

Hope that helps clear things up for you.

Kyle

 

[SkyPup]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mos2111</div><div class="ubbcode-body">skypup, you know as well as i do that I am not in the industry and i know as well as you do that you are already a big tnvc guy.
chip- this is why i have nothing against you, you sir are a class act and that is honest. and we've met before.
Kyle, I think perhaps the title of this thread and content escaped you. posers and internet drama aren't really technical in nature. but I'm such a problem, by simply asking where units are assembled that I got everyone but dino and the boss out.
maybe a response on the coating methodology of yalls units would be more along the lines of this forum. so cerakote or dipped or other?
next time put it in the pit where it belongs not as a percieved advertising tool in a tech forum... </div></div>

I certainly am a big TNVC guy, however, I have spent tens of thousands of dollars elsewhere on my NV & Thermal equipment (just ask Vic if you don't believe me). I am a molecular geneticist so I am certainly NOT in any position of selling anything to anyone, except for custom recombinant DNA for their body to produce proteins they were born without.

I have the freedom to choose who ever has the best products at the best prices with the best service and warranties and the best employees to talk to about what it is that I am getting.

Another good reason why I often deal with TNVC!

 

[TNVC - Kyle]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwalk3r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All I know is that Vitor at TNVC took care of me like a customer would want to be taken care of. Dropping the dough on a top PVS14, OpsCore, Wilcox etc isn't cheap, but I wouldn't have sent it anywhere else.

There's TNVC and the "other guys" as far as I'm concerned. Haters gonna hate.

(and when is the TNVC clip-on coming out? I want to spend more...) </div></div>

sandwalk3r and Harvey55,

The WASP went to the range last night for final, recoil testing on the 5.56mm and 7.62mm platforms. It will travel to the Midwest to have some photos and, will arrive at my East Coast office in the latter part of next week. That weekend, it will be strapped on to the Army's XM-2010 rifle, for the 300 win mag recoil test. There are some photos floating around, that were taken at our California Office, while readying the rifles for the test. I have a sneaky suspicion that you may see a few, here shortly.

Regardless, we are at the end of the cycle. Tubes are ready, bodies are ready, lenses are ready. Once the testing is complete and we compile some data, we will be releasing. We are very proud of the WASP and, we want it to be perfect when folks have a chance to order one. As always, we appreciate your business and your patience. Like you guys, I am anxiously awaiting mine, so I can lay it to some of the four-legged varmints that frequent my hunting property!!

Stay Tuned...

Kyle

 

[Harvey55]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

thanks for the heads up Kyle!

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

 

[CTM1]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

That is just so so wrong Vic!
You remind me of Stephanie Fragoletti from HS who always knew how to tease.
[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/wink.gif

 

[Harvey55]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

I hope there is more to come... nice scope though!

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Harvey55</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="font-weight: bold">I hope there is more to come.</span>.. nice scope though!

</div></div>

Thanks Harvey, there is....

I do hate it though when you cannot see all 4 rounds!

....Especially at 10x.

 

[deadly0311]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

Im just curious, since this has turned into Days of our Lives.....who is this "Poser" we are talking about?

 

[shooter6.5]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

Nice group.

What time of day was that shot and what were the natural light
conditions?

 

[CTM1]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

I'm still digging the picture of the locker with the HKMP7.
Did not know that any serious military group was using those based on what I have read about the ballistics. Who knew!

 

[sandwalk3r]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

tease...

 

[ggmanning]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

The WASP clip on has been a perpetual tease for a year.

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ggmanning</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The WASP clip on has been a perpetual tease for a year. </div></div>

Indeed, it has...EVERYTHING needed to be perfect and we're now getting close.

 

[CTM1]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor-TNVC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #FF0000">EVERYTHING needed to be perfect</span>
</div></div>

That means it is FREE

 

[HTR707]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ggmanning</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The WASP clip on has been a perpetual tease for a year. </div></div>

That may be the case, but one of the reasons TNVC is tweaking it, is that they are meticulous about the quality and detail. I know this first hand, and have seen the level of attention they gave to all of the features that might be needed by different end users, including us hicks from deep south Texas

It WILL be worth the wait.

 

[slowkota]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CTM1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm still digging the picture of the locker with the HKMP7.
Did not know that any serious military group was using those based on what I have read about the ballistics. Who knew! </div></div>

SEAL's apparently like 'em for some good 'ole CQB!

I'm stuck on the $65,000 price tag... Not sure if I should think that it's a fleecing of Gov't tax dollars, or if that price tag is a "bulk" Military discount price!

Nothin but the best for our men downrange though, so I really don't mind!

 

[5RWill]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ggmanning</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The WASP clip on has been a perpetual tease for a year.</div></div>

Perfection takes time

all in all better to field the product without concerns and up to TNVC standards/quality rather than rush it to the market.

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackops_2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ggmanning</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The WASP clip on has been a perpetual tease for a year.</div></div>

Perfection takes time

all in all better to field the product without concerns and up to TNVC standards/quality rather than rush it to the market. </div></div>

Thank you.

We've been working hard and think most will really like what is coming.

 

[Surgeon_Shooter]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

I'm a TNVC customer and proud of it! Always will be!

Jay

 

[Ronn72562]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

Hi skypup
I noticed you are a molecular geneticist and study BMP,I use to work for Medtronic and sold BMP for spinal fusions and other applications.Bmp is really a wonderful product,I have Bmp in my back from a spine surgery back in 2009.
FYI
Ron g

 

[SkyPup]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

The President of Medtronics has a get away log cabin with a heliopad not far from my ranch, he has had me over to fish in his private pond full of 8 pound plus largemouth bass, but you have to be careful the Charlois bulls don't think you are coming though the gate for feeding time or they will get mad and attack!

 

[Ronn72562]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

Wow what a small world skypup!!!!,sounds like a good time fishing and hunting around there.
Ron g

 

[Slapchop]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

I don't have much of a dog in this fight, but I will say this. I placed an order sometime last year. In the grand scheme of things it wasn't anything major to the guys at TNVC but it was something I needed for a project I had going on.

The order got screwed up and arrived incomplete. Mistakes happen. I PM'd Victor TNVC ( a hide member and company rep ) and he couldn't apologize enough and he was prompt in making things right even though this took place during the middle of SHOT Show. Even threw in a little extras for my troubles.

Customer service goes a long way into making and keeping a life long clientele. What a vendor does AFTER the sale is what counts the most. I'm not sure of the numbers but between Mil and LE sales, I'm sure that TNVC doesn't even NEED to give civilians the time of day. The fact that they took the time to square away the little guy speaks volumes about their business ethic.

Not trashing this other vendor as I know nothing about him but TNVC is aces and my go to place should the need arise for night vision gear.

 

[SkyPup]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ron1234</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow what a small world skypup!!!!,sounds like a good time fishing and hunting around there.
Ron g </div></div>

The Rural Electric Meter guy made the mistake of going through the gate to check the electric meter, by the time he got back to his Ford F-150 PU about a half dozen Charlois Bulls were standing around his truck waiting for a biscuit handout. Needless to say he had no cattle treats, so in return one of the Bulls rammed the door on his truck and ripped it off the hinges. He jumped into the bed while 2-3 of the bulls took to his truck giving it a through trashing, he had to call a rural sheriff deputy for help to get the hell out of there.

The bulls are nice and will eat out of your hand, but if you don't have any treats, they can be mean as hell!

 

[Ronn72562]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

Next time I would bring a Extra bag of treats for those bulls.Those bulls can be really mean so you better have a good pair of running shoes.
Ron g

 

[Oshi Shinobu]

Re: "Posers" in night vision

Nice!
Ain't facts a bitch? Keep the good news coming, Chip! Thanks!