Rifle Scopes PR Heritage Scopes

[pdd614]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

magnumdood, in all due respect I wouldn't call premier's warranty "the best in the industry." if you look back a ways I explained my case with premier. I think the best in the industry would have given me a loaner scope of some sort until they figured out my problem. water under the bridge now i guess.

 

[Magnumdood]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pdd614</div><div class="ubbcode-body">magnumdood, in all due respect I wouldn't call premier's warranty "the best in the industry." if you look back a ways I explained my case with premier. I think the best in the industry would have given me a loaner scope of some sort until they figured out my problem. water under the bridge now i guess. </div></div>
Who gives out loaner scopes <span style="font-style: italic">AND</span> fixes the scope even if you're not the original purchaser?

 

[pdd614]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

but I was the original purchaser. no loaner scope and only news i heard from premier was an unable to duplicate complaint. so I would say premier has a little ways to go before I would call it the best in the business.

 

[Magnumdood]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

I remember your post now. You ended up returning the scope to Scott at Liberty Optics. Too many ifs for me to guess what should have been done there. IF you had a valid problem, why couldn't PR duplicate it? Even if you just thought you had a problem PR could have just sent you another scope. I'll give you that one, but you have to give me this one; I said <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">best</span></span>, not <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">perfect</span></span>.

 

[pdd614]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

I don't know why they didn't duplicate my complaint. Maybe I should have told them to mount that thing and shoot it themselves. But they only had the scope a couple days so maybe they just didn't spend enough time with it. Who knows, maybe they did fix something but didn't want to admit it.

I hope they get the wrinkles worked out of these scopes, because when they do track well they are pure joy to shoot.

 

[Turk]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

I'll give you; you said the best, and you are wrong!

 

[Magnumdood]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

You had a bad experience with PR warranty.

I read a lot of the posts at 24-Hour Campfire, where Leupold can do no wrong...except for the guy that gets treated by Leupold's vaunted CS & warranty division poorly. For every 10 testaments to the excellence of Leupold's customer service department, there's one guy who wouldn't piss on their hair if their heads were on fire.

As I said, I never claimed perfect.

 

[pdd614]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

Like I said, water under the bridge and no hard feelings.

 

[J.Boyette]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

Guys,

One quick point to make here.

There is helpful bashing and hurtful bashing.

This I think is going in the hurtful way to SH.

IF I made things you guys wanted, I would think before I joined.

Not because I got something to hide, but because I do not want to read this SH!T.

So, we now know there is a new place on the map, its called Nun-ya. Its right next to from-under.

Lets not let this run off manufacturers.

some thoughts.

John

 

[Magnumdood]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll give you said the best; and you are wrong!

</div></div>
And, whom Sir is better?

 

[Magnumdood]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

I thoroughly enjoy just fiddling around with my PH 5-25. I am truly impressed at the thought that went in to making that scope as user-friendly as possible. It is obvious that the opinions of shooters were considered when the Premier Heritage was designed. I'll enjoy that scope for years to come (I hope).

I can't add anything of any real value, so...

...I'm out.

 

[JLM]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

I can understand not wanting to say WHO the SPECIFIC source is for whatever widget goes into your product, but a general statement about the Country of Origin? What's the harm in that?

 

[clmayfield]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

I am kind of at a loss to figure out why the place of manufacture of piece parts is such a big deal for PR and not anyone else. I don't remember individual component place of manufacture coming up for any other company... correct me if I'm wrong.

What is crazy is that Premier is being called out as the bad guys because they are less US. What? A quick run-down of the competitive set:

_______________Country of:
_______________Ownership___Manufacture___Glass_____Components
PR Heritage____USA_________USA___________Germany___Germany + China
S&B____________Germany_____Germany_______Germany___? Never asked
Hensholdt______Germany_____Germany_______Germany___? Never asked
Nightforce F1__Australia___USA___________Japan_____Japan + ?
Razor__________USA_________Japan_________Japan_____? Never asked

So let me get this straight, we are grilling the company that is US-owned and US-made for not being American enough? It's not like we didn't know the glass wasn't from here.

Amazingly, this thread has become so well managed by PR opponents that PR is actually on the defensive about their American-ness. This is freaking unbelievable. So what, is a potential purchaser going to be so upset that PR's components are not USA made that he is going to buy a scope made by a country we fought against in WWII?

 

[hunter223]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am kind of at a loss to figure out why the place of manufacture of piece parts is such a big deal for PR and not anyone else. I don't remember individual component place of manufacture coming up for any other company... correct me if I'm wrong.

What is crazy is that Premier is being called out as the bad guys because they are less US. What? A quick run-down of the competitive set:

_______________Country of:
_______________Ownership___Manufacture___Glass_____Components
PR Heritage____USA_________USA___________Germany___Germany + China
S&B____________Germany_____Germany_______Germany___? Never asked
Hensholdt______Germany_____Germany_______Germany___? Never asked
Nightforce F1__Australia___USA___________Japan_____Japan + ?
Razor__________USA_________Phillipines?__Japan_____? Never asked

So let me get this straight, we are grilling the company that is US-owned and US-made for not being American enough? It's not like we didn't know the glass wasn't from here.

Amazingly, this thread has become so well managed by PR opponents that PR is actually on the defensive about their American-ness. This is freaking unbelievable. So what, is a potential purchaser going to be so upset that PR's components are not USA made that he is going to buy a scope made by a country we fought against in WWII? </div></div>

The Razor is MFG in Japan

 

[clmayfield]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The Razor is MFG in Japan</div></div>

Thx... will change. I was using info off of another thread.

 

[teknikallysekure]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am kind of at a loss to figure out why the place of manufacture of piece parts is such a big deal for PR and not anyone else. I don't remember individual component place of manufacture coming up for any other company... correct me if I'm wrong.

What is crazy is that Premier is being called out as the bad guys because they are less US. What? A quick run-down of the competitive set:

_______________Country of:
_______________Ownership___Manufacture___Glass_____Components
PR Heritage____USA_________USA___________Germany___Germany + China
S&B____________Germany_____Germany_______Germany___? Never asked
Hensholdt______Germany_____Germany_______Germany___? Never asked
Nightforce F1__Australia___USA___________Japan_____Japan + ?
Razor__________USA_________Phillipines?__Japan_____? Never asked

So let me get this straight, we are grilling the company that is US-owned and US-made for not being American enough? It's not like we didn't know the glass wasn't from here.

Amazingly, this thread has become so well managed by PR opponents that PR is actually on the defensive about their American-ness. This is freaking unbelievable. So what, is a potential purchaser going to be so upset that PR's components are not USA made that he is going to buy a scope made by a country we fought against in WWII? </div></div>

The Razor is MFG in Japan </div></div>

We need a Leupold rep in here.

 

[clmayfield]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
We need a Leupold rep in here.</div></div>

As soon as Leupold makes an FFP, mil/mil scope with exceptional glass, we can add them to the lineup. They haven't signaled that they are headed that direction yet. And as crowded as the market is right now, I wouldn't move that direction if I were them.

 

[clmayfield]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

BTW... I should have added USO. They are 100% American, right?

 

[jasonk]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

Alright, every story needs a villian, I guess it'll be me.

Unless someone is willing to call Leupold, S&B and Nightforce tomorrow and ask where all their parts are made then I'm about to lock the thread. Premier was a hero among scopes here a year ago and then with a couple of disgruntled people who probably have valid complaints and a bunch of pile it on'ers, it's come to this.

I'm waiting for someone to provide real information that any mission critcal parts are made out of substandard materials using child labor in China, if not then who cares. I challenge anyone to find a spring or screw that is made in the US, I'd have to call Terry Cross for help on that task. We live in a global economy, the best of anything can be made anywhere and crap can still be produced right here in the US.

As for Chris and the Nunya answer, probably a shitty way to answer the question but I don't necessarily blame him. He knows that unless his answer is only USA then someone is going to find fault in the answer and flame him and Premier for using foreign parts.....even though they could very well be made better than US parts.

How many of the guys here complaining that a $2500 scope might have $100 in foreign parts have a $25,000 foreign car in the garage?

For the record, I have no dog in this fight, I don't know Chris and have never talked to him. I've owned 3 of his scopes and don't any longer, but that had nothing to do with the scopes, the parts or anything else (I have ADD, I know this). I've put those 3 Premiers side by side with the S&B's and Nightforces, then I sold my S&B's. Now the Premiers are gone, currently my safe is lacking serious optics.

 

[goober]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

it has been a great thread and truthfully has exposed some stuff while I believe not loosing the confidence of most Hiders even though the 'nun ya statement wasnt the best thought out reply -I think PR Gen2mildot has said his piece fair and square .You either think these scopes are top end and excellent whilst still evolving or you dont, we arnt going to get a list of what and where made although I did think this statement was telling "<span style="color: #FF0000">But for now, we're at the mercy of subcontractors and have to shoot for the best price while maintaining a fine balance with quality.</span>!! Maybe I read to much into that !!I for one am seriously going to look at one of these scopes and give Chris a call when I am ready to make my next purchase, hell I might even get a reasonable deal given there is no New Zealand agent who's going to add 100% to it -- I am tight when it comes to splashing out thousands on new kit and purchae very little shit .I for one feel no less confidence in PR after reading through this post .

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.Boyette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys,

One quick point to make here.

There is helpful bashing and hurtful bashing.

This I think is going in the hurtful way to SH.

IF I made things you guys wanted, I would think before I joined.

Not because I got something to hide, but because I do not want to read this SH!T.

So, we now know there is a new place on the map, its called Nun-ya. Its right next to from-under.

Lets not let this run off manufacturers.

some thoughts.

John </div></div>

John, I'll second that motion....

And to which I'll add, that it doesn't matter what anyone does in their attempts to do the best they can, there will always be the antagonists.

How many people are beating down the gear-carriers doors, for their material? Is their stuff made in the US? Ok, so it's bought in the US, from a US company, but are the threads that make up the fabric made in the US? Grown in the US? Are the dye's that they're colored with made in the US?

Nobody's asking these types of questions, cause nobody's created the bandwagon yet. Yes, the above is a RIDICULOUS EXAMPLE, so don't even start.

The point is, you can't please everyone. The quality begins, when you try to. And the quality continues, when you go out of your way to keep trying.

I see this getting shut down right quick.

 

[918v]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

If you want something 100% USA made, you have to buy a 50 year old used Colt or a Weaver T-10 with a steel tube. Neither is ideal for today's combat requirements.

People just have to accept that nothing mechanically complicated is 100% USA made. Nothing. So quit being unrealistic and start being practical.

 

[Tribe]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

FWIW, which admittedly ain't much.... I frickin' LOVE mine... even after a 9 month wait... I own a couple of USO's as well... one being a "Canadian".

 

[gugubica]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

Personally, again, I don't care where all the little shit in my scope came from.

What are the alternatives? NOT having another US based company building products and employing people?

As long as my scope works and the company stands behind it, that is all I can ask.

Jason, I would understand if you were to lock this thing up, but I wish you wouldn't. There is some good info here, and I think some things are coming to light. Sides have obviously been drawn, that is unfortunate.

I think everyone needs to take a step back and remember, this is a new product. There are going to be small issues with any new product. I think that the very low percentage of issues actually says a lot about the time and engineering that went into these.

The fact that Chris is willing to come here at all says a lot to me. Having a direct like to a manufacturer is an overlooked bonus to this forum. Being a dick to him is not productive. I remember why there are no Leupold reps that post here any more, does everyone else? Its because they got tired of defending themselves against this team-up bullshit pile on actacks.

Someone asked if some of the parts in these scopes came from Taiwann, Chris come on and said that not every single little piece comes from the USA. I am fine with that. It is foolish to believe that in a country that has evolved out of a manufacuring industry every single little tid bit is even availabe here.

My scope is great, I am happy with it. I hope that the company is around for a long time to stand behind it. If you don't like their products...fine, there are many that do.

And that really is what all this should boil down to...the product, is it a good product? Does it have good support? All in all, the answer to both those questions is ...yes.

 

[jasonk]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gugubica</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Jason, I would understand if you were to lock this thing up, but I wish you wouldn't. There is some good info here, and I think some things are coming to light. Sides have obviously been drawn, that is unfortunate.

</div></div>

Trust me, it would be a last resort. Locking threads makes the tinfoil hatters think that it's a conspiracy, someone is protecting someone else, etc. In all reality it would simply to be to stop the misinformation and rumor train, as well as giving everyone a chance to cool their jets a little.

Sadly for me, I'm just a nobody. No industry ties, nothing to gain by moderating, just trying to help this site stay the best in tactical and long range shooting information. I bought my Premiers from Liberty and CS Gunworks just like everyone else.

 

[JRose]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

I think that something has been lost in translation here....


Parts being made "outside of the U.S." is not neccesarily a bad thing. I think that parts sorced in countries known for quality, ie Germany, is fine. Parts being made in some third world mud hut country paying a 8 y/o 15 cents an hour to carve out a pot metal part is not.

BTW, this is just to clarify that one point, I'm not making any insinuations about PR's parts, or their origin.

 

[sickeness]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think that something has been lost in translation here....


Parts being made "outside of the U.S." is not neccesarily a bad thing. I think that parts sorced in countries known for quality, ie Germany, is fine. Parts being made in some third world mud hut country paying a 8 y/o 15 cents an hour to carve out a pot metal part is not.

BTW, this is just to clarify that one point, I'm not making any insinuations about PR's parts, or their origin. </div></div>

As I already posted earlier, Taiwan is a first world country which now produces products known for quality. Most of Taiwan's exports nowadays are high tech. <span style="font-weight: bold">Taiwan is not China</span>, it is not a f*cking communist country and and the stuff they make is vastly superior in quality.

 

[clmayfield]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sickeness</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Taiwan is not China</span>, it is not a f*cking communist country and and the stuff they make is vastly superior in quality.</div></div>

Actually, Taiwan is Chinese. It is not mainland China, and it is disputed as to whether it is under the PRC's sovereignty, but Taiwan is Chinese.

 

[nhm16]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sickeness</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Taiwan is not China</span>, it is not a f*cking communist country and and the stuff they make is vastly superior in quality.</div></div>

Actually, Taiwan is Chinese. It is not mainland China, and it is disputed as to whether it is under the PRC's sovereignty, but Taiwan is Chinese. </div></div>

Geopolitical distinctions aside, Taiwan (the Republic of China) is not "China" (the People's Republic thereof) when it comes of the origin of products, and all the reputations, opinions, prejudices, etc., that come with such origins. In other words, I don't think that people think "Made in Taiwan" is the same as "Made in China." With regard to products made overseas, I certainly rank Taiwan higher than the PRC, if not as highly as Germany and Japan.

 

[azimutha]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Magnumdood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Premier Reticles owes us a scope that works, and works so very well indeed, and that's ALL they owe us. We pay our money and take our chances. The icing on the cake is they give it the best warranty in the industry. If you have a Heritage, and you're the 4th owner, and it goes TU, it's my understanding that PR will fix the scope. Hard to beat that gentlemen. They owe us nothing else.</div></div>

Well said. I've read through this thread from time to time over the last couple weeks because, as a recent buyer of a new PH 3-15X50, I was a little concerned over my expensive purchase. While Premier doesn't have the right (and I don't think they pretend) to claim that their scopes are 100% US-made, they do have the right to keep their part sources and manufacturing practices to themselves.

I bought this scope on the strength of its construction, design and features, as well as reviews by people like Frank who have run the scope through far more than I ever will. I have every reason to expect that it will last me many years. Maybe I will have to fix the clicks if they ever get mushy but even if Premier disappeared off the face of the earth I bought this scope on its own merits. I don't turn over equipment (other than computers) so resale value doesn't mean anything to me.

 

[sickeness]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sickeness</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Taiwan is not China</span>, it is not a f*cking communist country and and the stuff they make is vastly superior in quality.</div></div>

Actually, Taiwan is Chinese. It is not mainland China, and it is disputed as to whether it is under the PRC's sovereignty, but Taiwan is Chinese. </div></div>

The only commonality between the two countries is the fact that most of the population is ethnically Chinese. Most of the people up in Canada are of the same ethnic background as the US but that doesn't mean that Canada=America. My point still stands that Taiwan does not export crappy products and the notion that Chinese and Taiwanese manufacturing are anywhere similar is ignorant.

 

[native]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

SH does not need a whine and bitch forum, the optic section seems to do nicely.
“nun-ya” was putting it to <span style="font-weight: bold">kindly</span> for some of you!

 

[clmayfield]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sickeness</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The only commonality between the two countries is the fact that most of the population is ethnically Chinese. Most of the people up in Canada are of the same ethnic background as the US but that doesn't mean that Canada=America. My point still stands that Taiwan does not export crappy products and the notion that Chinese and Taiwanese manufacturing are anywhere similar is ignorant.</div></div>

Actually, this whole line of logic is ridiculous. I can't tell you the quality of anything based on country of origin alone.

I have bought a lot of crap over the years, and I have never bought a product where I was issued a BOM with country of origin of each component. Not cars, TV's, computers, toys, not with my Nightforce scope. And not with my PR scope.

But PR has something to hide, apparently.

Honestly, this thread has basically turned into a political debate. If you hate Premier, then they are satan, and here is why. If you are in the Premier camp, their scopes rock because you have one and it is the best scope you have owned. This is not to say that there are not threads constructively criticizing PR out there. This just isn't one of them.

BTW... I expect Chris Thomas to post his birth certificate because I heard through a reliable source that he is born in Taiwan.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

I really don't care where the guts come from in PR scopes, what bothers me is a company who has been in business as long as PR has, and hasn't learned to make a product that works right out of the box, mushy clicks, telling people whose paralax don't work to loosen there foward ring cap, fucking the people who prepaid for a product and not getting there scopes first. I really wanted a PRH 5-25 but will end up spending more and getting a S&B instead.

 

[roundout]

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

Wow, just Wow. Read SH a long time and just violated my rule of never posting. Maybe its because PR has rushed scopes I sent it in to get different reticles installed (working fine just reticle exchange) when I needed them for work or just because I dont want to see Chris run off. I dont know but what has happened here seems wrong.

I have scopes by just about every major manufacture and get a grip on guys. They all out source parts from all over the world. No current US Brand scope is made completely in USA. So does every US Car Manufacture and pretty much every US Manufacture of most anything.

The quality of the end product is what matters.

PR makes a fine scope. My 5-25 and 3-15 PR Scopes are my favorites with no problems in a year of use with 3-15 and a few months with the 5-25.

The attacks like this are why manufactures dont talk on the net. Its like talking to the press. Everything said is twisted. Low Light does a good job of keeping these attacks down but obviously the man can not be every where all the time.