Prime Update Video

[Nik H]

I was just gonna buy some Norma 223 on sale, but NOPE.

I almost ordered some Norma 6.5 130 grain ammo but I bought FGMM instead.

What a shame. Unbelievable that RUAG could pull a stunt like that and not think there wouldn't be some sort of backlash

I would like to read the court docs as they are generally more comprehensive than a video.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

Should we comment on their various social media platforms to express out displeasure? They seem to have several different ones based on location, so I’m not sure which to post my thoughts on...

All of them.

 

[earthtrekker1775]

Should we comment on their various social media platforms to express out displeasure? They seem to have several different ones based on location, so I’m not sure which to post my thoughts on...

All of them

 

[Basher]

Got it.

 

[SpeedyR]

Anyone know if RUAG uses any sales reps in the US market for their products?

I have some Norma 6.5 brass that was once fired. Did Prime have their own head stamp or was it Norma? I feel bad now just having it...

Will be intersting to see Norma at some of the industry events in the near future...

 

[LawnMM]

We need a list of companies that use RUAG components, etc. and a form letter explaining how we disdain unethical business practices perpetrated by RUAG and will no longer purchase anything from these companies because of their treatment of companies like Prime. Then we need to know where to send the letter/email. The best way to change the tune of a large, money loving corporation is to hurt their bottom line. 15,000 or so Sniper's Hide members and friends/family/shootingg buddies sending said email ought to get the point across

Good luck, we can't get 100 people that attend a match to email and thank the sponsors

 

[Nik H]

Their UK subsidiary has an FB presence...

Search for RUAG Ammotec UK

 

[Basher]

Their UK subsidiary has an FB presence...

Search for RUAG Ammotec UK

Already posted there, and left a negative review on their German page (only way to comment was to leave a review). Let’s see if they filter it out...

 

[DOA]

I plan on emailing Turners Outdoorsman about this.

 

[lash]

Anyone know if RUAG uses any sales reps in the US market for their products?

I have some Norma 6.5 brass that was once fired. Did Prime have their own head stamp or was it Norma? I feel bad now just having it...

Will be intersting to see Norma at some of the industry events in the near future...

Prime has their own head stamp.

 

[Wulf]

Well I personally won’t be shooting Norma brass again. I was looking forward to getting my hands on some prime 260rem Ammo.

 

[Dthomas3523]

So, after reading the documents, here’s the short story I got out of it:

Prime says they had an original payment structure agreement with ruag. They then entered into a second agreement with ruag with superseded the original.

Then ruag used the terms of the first deal to justify holding the massive payment for the 6.5 Saum and 6creed. That they were owed the money based on the original payment agreement.

Ruag is saying yea, they did that and it’s legal.

Mix in a bunch of underlying reasons with the Swiss gov’t and such.

 

[Crazy1323]

I am going to start writing a letter to Midway informing them that I will not be purchasing any items from vendors which sell RUAG items until this case is resolved. I will post the letter on here so that anyone interested can send it as well. I am an accountant by trade, so I know the importance of working capital with startup businesses.

 

[BigTex]

I am going to start writing a letter to Midway informing them that I will not be purchasing any items from vendors which sell RUAG items until this case is resolved. I will post the letter on here so that anyone interested can send it as well. I am an accountant by trade, so I know the importance of working capital with startup businesses.

Good luck, Midway/Potterfield are Fudds and probably don't care.

 

[Sutherlandsd]

Wow what a shit thing for RUAG to do, will boycott with my wallet.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I’m also reading:

Prime suspects/accuses the ruag management knew the Swiss gov’t wanted to sell the civilian (Norma) side.

So they enacted a plan to put prime out of business and severely devalue Norma for a cheap buyout from Swiss gov’t.

So, they would put prime out of business, buy Norma on the cheap, then make a shitload of money owning the Norma brand and selling in the US.

 

[Dthomas3523]

If true, that’s some shady shit you’d think you’d only see in the movies.

Hopefully prime has the documents to prove it.

Looks like the second adendum payment agreement was a handshake followed by an email.

If true, ruag management likely knew an email was harder to prove than a contract.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Trust the Europeans to try to screw everybody over so the elites can make a killing.

 

[Wulf]

I’m also reading:

Prime suspects/accuses the ruag management knew the Swiss gov’t wanted to sell the civilian (Norma) side.

So they enacted a plan to put prime out of business and severely devalue Norma for a cheap buyout from Swiss gov’t.

So, they would put prime out of business, buy Norma on the cheap, then make a shitload of money owning the Norma brand and selling in the US.

Can’t trust the Swiss. They even skimp on their cheese by making it with holes in it.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

Trust the Europeans to try to screw everybody over so the elites can make a killing.

This

 

[Dthomas3523]

Can’t trust the Swiss. They even skimp on their cheese by making it with holes in it.

LOL

If the accusations are true, these ruag managers were/are screwing the Swiss gov’t as well.

By doing this shit, they devalue the civilian (Norma) side and get to pay less for the acquisition from Swiss gov’t

 

[aard3]

If true, that’s some shady shit you’d think you’d only see in the movies.

Hopefully prime has the documents to prove it.

Looks like the second adendum payment agreement was a handshake followed by an email.

If true, ruag management likely knew an email was harder to prove than a contract.

I have the same interpretation after I read the docs...

This all revolves around the "handshake" agreement, that appears was followed up by just an email from prime to RUAG.

If the only executed agreement is the original, and PRIME can't prove that RUAG agreed to the second agreement, they are toast.

 

[Nik H]

Man that was an interesting read. It will be interesting to see what the courts do...

I can guarantee that this isn't going to be resolved anytime soon. Even if RUAG loses, they will appeal. End result...RUAG will continue with its plans and PRIME is basically fucked.

Really sucks. I don't really use any RUAG products so not much I can do other than show support and spread the word about RUAG. Even if PRIME moves to other suppliers, RUAG already has the recipes and good luck proving that they are using them. RUAG can make the ammo per recipe for cheaper than PRIME can.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Even if Prime wins, the issue is still getting their money back.

Ruag management knows this and will just keep the case going as long as possible. Basically a waiting game in an attempt to further drive Prime out of the business.

 

[Dthomas3523]

At this point, Prime needs capital and to go with other manufacturers.

But, if they end up losing, they are going to have a judgement for a large chunk of cash.

This is a bad spot for Prime all around.

 

[Nik H]

At this point, Prime needs capital and to go with other manufacturers.

But, if they end up losing, they are going to have a judgement for a large chunk of cash.

This is a bad spot for Prime all around.

I think that there is little possibility that RUAG wins but they can wait it out and PRIME will go under before the money is returned. I wonder what indemnity PRIME has relative to their subscribers. Those people should join the suit against RUAG as they may have lost some coin.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I think that there is little possibility that RUAG wins but they can wait it out and PRIME will go under before the money is returned. I wonder what indemnity PRIME has relative to their subscribers. Those people should join the suit against RUAG as they may have lost some coin.

It’s also probably damn near impossible for them to develop any capital from investors with this litigation ongoing.

Big risk for investors.

Ruag just has to stall as long as possible.

I think this is what he means when he said Prime is effectively out of business for the temporary.

 

[just browsing]

Feel bad for Prime and all, and I didn’t read the claim docs, but...

If they were/are relying on a “handshake” agreement with a supplier - without executing a contract outlining the new terms - that’s just bad business practice, period.

 

[Basher]

Can’t verbal contracts be enforced in the US? So isn’t a handshake/email agreement the same basic thing?

 

[M338]

Can’t verbal contracts be enforced in the US? So isn’t a handshake/email agreement the same basic thing?

It’s proving it before you run out of funds,that’s the hard bit.

 

[elmuzzlebreak]

I really am rooting for prime but it is going to take a huge effort from the precision shooting industry and consumers to help resurrect it. Hate to say but boycotts are wastes of effort since Ruag won't feel anything unless Midway or Brownells dumps them (which they won't) or everyone stops buying Ruag/Norma products (which also won't happen because some people will buy whatever is cheapest principles be damned ie Troy). Best we can do is support Prime right now and save money so when the taps are open again we buy all of Prime's Ammo.

 

[Racer88]

From what I can tell, so far.... RUAG has committed THEFT. Outright theft.

I had bought Prime ammo until they ran out of stock. So, I moved on to other brands. But, I'd give them a try with any future products. I hope there is also a way we can all help. I'll stay tuned. Bullies like RUAG deserve to be kicked in the balls. Hard.

 

[Sixfivesavage]

I knew I wasn't crazy when the price of 308 changed very quickly from when the moving sale was announced to the second or third day of the sale. It was crazy cheap for a day or two, this explains it. Hopefully they can get their feet back under them and move at least a limited catalog of the more popular stuff manufactured through a second source and get some cash flow and retain some market share for the time being.

 

[C Renz]

Damn now I gotta go into work and get my Dept to change training ammo. Sadly those assholes were the only ones capable of fulfilling our large orders on time. Organize the boycott!!!

 

[Crazy1323]

Here is my hope:

Jim has found a supplier that can meet his QC standards while maintaining a cost similar to what was historically offered; however, capital is necessary to get into production. Customers will be able to place an order (and be charged now) with the anticipation that products will be available in the coming months. THis gives Prime the capital to continue business while fighting the legal battle with RUAG. I reload, but I would happily order a case or two under these conditions (knowing it may be months before I get the product).

You could use your customers and fans as short term capital.

 

[Racer88]

Here is my hope:

Jim has found a supplier that can meet his QC standards while maintaining a cost similar to what was historically offered; however, capital is necessary to get into production. Customers will be able to place an order (and be charged now) with the anticipation that products will be available in the coming months. THis gives Prime the capital to continue business while fighting the legal battle with RUAG. I reload, but I would happily order a case or two under these conditions (knowing it may be months before I get the product).

You could use your customers and fans as short term capital.

Not a bad idea. I would pre-order a case to help the cause.

 

[Threadcutter308]

We need a list of companies that use RUAG components, etc. and a form letter explaining how we disdain unethical business practices perpetrated by RUAG and will no longer purchase anything from these companies because of their treatment of companies like Prime. Then we need to know where to send the letter/email. The best way to change the tune of a large, money loving corporation is to hurt their bottom line. 15,000 or so Sniper's Hide members and friends/family/shootingg buddies sending said email ought to get the point across

Just be sure that you/we do it individually and not appearing to represent the Hide, unless given specific permission by Frank to do so.

 

[LimaTangoWhisky]

PRIME is a great company, Ruag/Norma just made the list. But if people won't but their shit they will just change their company name.

 

[elmuzzlebreak]

Not a bad idea. I would pre-order a case to help the cause.

It would be really neat if we could get a Hide group buy and I think that would be a royal "fuck you" to Ruag. But it's going to take more like reloaders dropping Normal brass and anything Ruag. Then again I'm all for sticking it to the bully.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Uh, somebody want to translate/decode this into human english:

59. There is no remedy at law which allows for Citizens to seek the return of the fraudulently obtained money which is unjustly enriching RUAG.

I don't think it means what it seems to say, but I'd be 'not happy' if it do!

 

[Bradu]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that didn't understand the way some of it's written.

 

[earthtrekker1775]

Just be sure that you/we do it individually and not appearing to represent the Hide, unless given specific permission by Frank to do so.

Of course

 

[c.blackwell1]

Uh, somebody want to translate/decode this into human english:

59. There is no remedy at law which allows for Citizens to seek the return of the fraudulently obtained money which is unjustly enriching RUAG.

I don't think it means what it seems to say, but I'd be 'not happy' if it do!

Way I take it is that the law can’t help them get the money back that was paid for the ammunition. That it was free money for RUAG . It all revolves around a handshake and email negotiations with the new CEO of RUAG on whether or not the courts will uphold that as a contract.

 

[W54/XM-388]

If the accusations are true, these ruag managers were/are screwing the Swiss gov’t as well.
By doing this shit, they devalue the civilian (Norma) side and get to pay less for the acquisition from Swiss gov’t

This is Europe, the elites are all one big incestuous family over there between government and business leaders.
I would not be surprised at all if "someone" in the Swiss government knows all about it and gave the execs the heads up info and the subtle go ahead as payment for making sure cutting off the civilians went smoothly and quietly, while also getting some part of the "new" bought out company for themselves.

 

[Shadow knows]

Well there went any norma purchases I was about to make.

 

[ShtrRdy]

PRIME sent out an email with the court filings attached. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. I didn't read every word but it sounds like PRIME owed RUAG a lot of money. I don't quite understand the details of the last contract where PRIME ordered a bunch of 6.5 SAUM(4s) and were required to pay for it up front.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

I'll leave it for others to jump. I suggest reading 'closer'. Just think of Hannibal Lechter.

 

[TheMammoth]

I am 100% down for donating to this cause.

I’m also down for purchasing a basket load of PRIME lawsuit gear, someone should start thinking up logos for all this and printing shirts/patches.

This is complete bullshit. Anyone who ordered any decent amount of Prime probably got the same thank you phone calls I did.

I even got a follow up call ask how I liked all the different product I got to try. They’re top notch customer service and I want them to stick around. Fuck eurocuck bitches trying to take them down

 

[Dthomas3523]

PRIME sent out an email with the court filings attached. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. I didn't read every word but it sounds like PRIME owed RUAG a lot of money. I don't quite understand the details of the last contract where PRIME ordered a bunch of 6.5 SAUM(4s) and were required to pay for it up front.

They owed money, but the second agreement turned that debt into a loan. Per a handshake and email. This stablished a payment plan for debt with interest.

Then, ruag asked for payment upfront for the 6mm and 6.5 saum. Once ruag received this up front payment they kept it AND the ammo and said it was because of the money owed from original agreement.

According to Prime. Basically a high level bait and switch.

This left Prime cash poor and no ammo.

 

[J-Ham]

Mammoth wins thread for coining the term 'eurocuck'!