Propper @ SHOT

Sportin Wood

Sportin Wood

Team Hardwood
Full Member
Minuteman
    • Jul 17, 2010
    3,602
    238
    The Woods, WA
    #1
    Anybody talk to any of the reps for Propper International when they were walking around upstairs in the big room at SHOT? My brother in law and I walked in and asked about one of their products and the lady didn't have a clue so she went over and got one acouple guys. He came over and before we could ask anything he told us that the stuff he had on his walls were too expensive for us and even if we could afford it we wouldn't see anything for abut 9 to 10 months out. All we wanted was some info on one of their sleep bivy's. How does their company survive with such assholes at the helm. Bet they are glad to have contracts with the military cause that attitude won't get them far with the sportsman....
     
    #3
    Re: Propper @ SHOT

    If this is true, I'd love to see a guy like that fired for alienating customers. Too bad you didn't get video of that exchange. It would be a big hit on the forums.
     
    #5
    Re: Propper @ SHOT

    I would love for some smuck to say something to me like that. NO mind you I have some dirt poor friends and some very wealthy friends and I get along great with anyone and everyone. I myself have been very fortunate in life and have been at the bottom and at the top. I would have immediately got both their names and reported them. Then told them they have no clue by someones looks what there financial status is. I dress just like anyone else and I can buy anything I want. but I also know where I came from as well
     
    #6
    Re: Propper @ SHOT

    Don't get me wrong, I wan;t dressed down or anything. I actually like to think I am ahead of where I should be at 22 financially. I just think because we weren't in Armani suits and crrying breifcases they had to care to even discuss products with the general public. I walked past his booth 4 or 5 times and there was not a soul in it every time.
     
    #7
    Re: Propper @ SHOT

    Dude,

    Don't feel alone, I had a guy with me, foreign chap, asking about things in an clearly informed way, not at Propper but other places, and got a lot of the same thing.

    Even at one point, he was asking about kit and they said, well the military only, buying through governments, you need that behind you, and he said, Ya, Right Mate, so this kit, 200 units, what are we talking, well that is only for people in the military. They were too stupid to get it... Happened more than once, where he was told military only, and even after saying, sure, they didn;t understand he was and were more interested in pushing him away because his badge didn't say US Government Purchasers...
     
    #10
    Re: Propper @ SHOT

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I you want to get their attention, find an email address for someone in their management or marketing, and send them the link to this thread. Include the number of people registered on this site.

    </div></div>

    This has been done.
     
    #11
    Re: Propper @ SHOT

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I you want to get their attention, find an email address for someone in their management or marketing, and send them the link to this thread. Include the number of people registered on this site.

    </div></div>
    MORE VIDEO PLEASE!!!!
     
    #12
    Re: Propper @ SHOT

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paw print</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I you want to get their attention, find an email address for someone in their management or marketing, and send them the link to this thread. Include the number of people registered on this site.

    </div></div>
    MORE VIDEO PLEASE!!!!</div></div> Huh? More video of what?
     
    #13
    Re: Propper @ SHOT

    I have friends who work for Propper and this certainly wasn't like any of them. I hate to be the one guy on the thread to disagree but here it goes. I would note that there are few details in the OP. I have in the past consistently seen that people on this forum always demand specifics when a manufacturer is being commented upon adversely. I would think that the same would be required here. If I posted that I went to the GA Precision booth and the sales guy was an ass, people would be in line to pile on me. Let me be crystal clear, I am not doubting the OP's story or calling him out in any way. I am just saying that prior to going public on a forum, some effort should be made to handle the situation with the company. Are you sure the person you talked to was a regular company employee? Manufacturers regularly bring in distributors (third party companies) to staff their booths at SHOT. Maybe this guy was a distributor and we should be discussing his company and not Propper. I am a small business person and Customer Service is a daily issue for us. I just hate to see anyone trying to service the tactical/LE/MIL community hurt when it may not be deserved. Especially in this economy. So maybe next time the play would be to get the persons name and talk to a Supervisor first. You may get treated well and then the post would be titled "Propper @ SHOT is great!" instead of the alternative. Again, I am just trying to be the voice of reason here and am not calling anyone out.
     
    #15
    Re: Propper @ SHOT

    Do you own a business? Do you have suppliers, vendors and distributors? Can you vet everyone of their employees and/or can you afford to cut off a major distributor solely because you don't like one of their employees? I was trying to add another viewpoint to the thread. That is kind of the point of a forum board. But if all you want to hear is agreement with the bashing, then by all means bash away.
     
    #16
    Re: Propper @ SHOT

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How about making sure no one in your booth is an asshole to begin with. </div></div>

    OK. That should include the visitor too.

    Not saying the OP was but, after being in too many booths at too many shows, I can tell you it goes both ways.
    I have no idea who Propper is and certainly know none of their guys. But, I do whole heartedly agree there are two sides to every story.
    BTW, SHOT was designed for industry people to come present their newest wares to those distributors and dealers who would carry them. NOT for any one who feels like just wrangling a pass from their cousin's aunt's nephews, brother-in-law and going to the show.
    Hell, it isn't much more than a local gun show now.
     
    #17
    Re: Propper @ SHOT

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    BTW, SHOT was designed for industry people to come present their newest wares to those distributors and dealers who would carry them. NOT for any one who feels like just wrangling a pass from their cousin's aunt's nephews, brother-in-law and going to the show.
    Hell, it isn't much more than a local gun show now.
    </div></div>

    Touche'
     
    #18
    Re: Propper @ SHOT

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How about making sure no one in your booth is an asshole to begin with. </div></div>

    OK. That should include the visitor too.

    Not saying the OP was but, after being in too many booths at too many shows, I can tell you it goes both ways.
    I have no idea who Propper is and certainly know none of their guys. But, I do whole heartedly agree there are two sides to every story.
    BTW, SHOT was designed for industry people to come present their newest wares to those distributors and dealers who would carry them. NOT for any one who feels like just wrangling a pass from their cousin's aunt's nephews, brother-in-law and going to the show.
    Hell, it isn't much more than a local gun show now.
    </div></div>

    Still does not make it right to do what they supposedly did. I do have a company that I run on the side with my wife and we go to trade shows etc. I wouldn't dare insult, demean etc any person that came to my booth becuase you never know what that encounter could lead to. It's bad business period. If a person is an idiot I will still hold the conversation with them but wind it down and continue on.

    I have a similar story to what happened above that involved a car dealer and they laughed a buddy of mine off the lot saying he couldn't afford the car he wanted. Needless to say he went to another dealership and got the car he wanted and then rubbed it in their faces. His experience spread around our town and needless to say that dealership no longer exists.
     
    #19
    Re: Propper @ SHOT

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: anthony20031</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How about making sure no one in your booth is an asshole to begin with. </div></div>

    OK. That should include the visitor too.

    Not saying the OP was but, after being in too many booths at too many shows, I can tell you it goes both ways.
    I have no idea who Propper is and certainly know none of their guys. But, I do whole heartedly agree there are two sides to every story.
    BTW, SHOT was designed for industry people to come present their newest wares to those distributors and dealers who would carry them. NOT for any one who feels like just wrangling a pass from their cousin's aunt's nephews, brother-in-law and going to the show.
    Hell, it isn't much more than a local gun show now.
    </div></div>

    Still does not make it right to do what they supposedly did. </div></div>

    Again, I am just saying, there are TWO sides to every story. We only have the OP's side. Even you say "supposedly".
    I AM NOT condoning any rep from any company being an asshole. My company spends hundreds of thousands of $$ each year to participate at SHOT. They would not stand for any of our guys tallking down to a visitor in the booth.
     
    #20
    Re: Propper @ SHOT

    If someone is in your booth your going to ultimately take responsibility for either their professional or shitty behavior.
    Regardless if they are a vendor, customer, business partner etc.

    It's one of the pitfalls of being a manufacturer/owner of guns/gear/whatever.

    If someone had been great in the propper booth they'd be taking the credit right now. It goes the same the other way around.


    So yes, if I had a booth selling whatever I'd be making damn sure everyone in it is a professional, wherever the hell they came from and whatever their role is.



    This sounds alot like when I went to the Larue booth last year and one of the people behind their counter was a real dickhead.(I then came back and posted about it here) Fortunately I understand that everyone has a bad day. But the story is still going to get told.
     
    #21
    Re: Propper @ SHOT

    It's safe to say that at an event like this you literally have NO idea who you're talking to, and attempting to address them by their attire is probably not a good option. Some of the guys in suits are going to end up being marketing schills with no purchasing power or interest in anything other than pushing their trinket, while some scrubby shaggy looking old man could easily represent who knows what there to evaluate items as an armorer for a metropolitan SRT or something.

    I imagine from a sales and marketing perspective you really would do well to represent your company positively to all purveyors regardless of what purchasing power you might think they have. The power of negative communication in this modern social media system we now live in is amplified by magnitudes.
     
    #22
    Re: Propper @ SHOT

    Have you ever been to IWA in Nuremberg? Obviously not. I have been there twice. And just because of this exact reason I won´t go there any more.
    But normally the American based companies like Hornady, Federal, Remington, Kestrel, RCBS and so on are more than willing to help an inform you, even if your English ist not perfect. But try and get any kind of information at the Beretta booth. No matter if it concerns Sako, Beretta itself or Tikka. Good luck. I and three different friends tried independently. On two different dates with a timeframe between the events of one year. No Chance.
    And Beretta sells lots of shotguns to sportmen.
     
    #23
    Re: Propper @ SHOT

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    I imagine from a sales and marketing perspective you really would do well to represent your company positively to all purveyors regardless of what purchasing power you might think they have. The power of negative communication in this modern social media system we now live in is amplified by magnitudes. </div></div>

    I agree with this. I experienced this attitude at Shot in talking with the rep from Massif. He was excited to tell me about their new line of less expensive non FR outdoor clothing. I wasn't someone who was there to purchase loads of goods and he still entertained all my questions and made sure I was satisfied with our exchange. Left a lasting impression on me and I will be looking to purchase Massif in the near future. They had some very cool stuff.
     
    #24
    Re: Propper @ SHOT

    the same thing happened to me at the Modern Day Marine Expo this past fall here in Quantico. I got snubbed a LOT, just because i dont have shiny shit all over my collar. i also got several "here is my card, shoot me an email/give me a call, and i will have something for you" one guy followed through with a set of nice winter gloves, most just snubbed me. one actually happens to be Frank's best budddy, a guy by the name of Mark.
     
    #25
    Re: Propper @ SHOT

    JB gleason, all I was trying to do was get some info on a sleeping bivy that was hanging on their wall amongst all of their other gear. The lady at the table was doing paperwork and said she didn't have a clue and would get someone who did know all about them. We didn't have a chance to even introduce ourselves to the guy who came over, who from his Propper shirt with his name on the chest (I just cant remember the name), I took it he did indeed work for Propper. He was a complete ass before we could say anything.

    I have been getting regulary emails from Propper becuase I was interested in the new ATACS camo that they are carrying. I was looking forward to looking through their booth and had some questions. Like I said in the opening post, Hos only words to us was that we couldn't afford their stuff and even if we could we wouldn't see it for 9 to 10 months.
     
    #26
    Re: Propper @ SHOT

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Socalsheepdog</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    I imagine from a sales and marketing perspective you really would do well to represent your company positively to all purveyors regardless of what purchasing power you might think they have. The power of negative communication in this modern social media system we now live in is amplified by magnitudes. </div></div>

    I agree with this. I experienced this attitude at Shot in talking with the rep from Massif. He was excited to tell me about their new line of less expensive non FR outdoor clothing. I wasn't someone who was there to purchase loads of goods and he still entertained all my questions and made sure I was satisfied with our exchange. Left a lasting impression on me and I will be looking to purchase Massif in the near future. They had some very cool stuff. </div></div>

    Well I definitely had some great experiences with some vendors at SHOT that ensure I will be not only using their products in the future, but when people want to talk about these things I'll definitely be recommending. It only takes a little bit of goodwill and positive attitude to go along ways. Many of these companies get a large amount of business via word of mouth. People always want to feel good about what they're buying and who it comes from.
     
    #27
    Re: Propper @ SHOT

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I definitely had some great experiences with some vendors at SHOT that ensure I will be not only using their products in the future, but when people want to talk about these things I'll definitely be recommending. It only takes a little bit of goodwill and positive attitude to go along ways. Many of these companies get a large amount of business via word of mouth. People always want to feel good about what they're buying and who it comes from. </div></div>

    And I agree with you here. I have a stack of business cards with guys names and what I was interested in at the show. I have contacted a few of them and they were just as nice if not even more over the phone than they were at the show. There were a few companies that the salespeople they hired talked me into actually taking a little better look at their products and getting interested enough to buy some when I got back home.
     
    #28
    Re: Propper @ SHOT

    Maybe the rep was actually bitter at Propper for making products that are ridiculously over priced. Or, maybe he was just tired of people telling him that their products were not worth the extravagant prices they were asking.... Who knows?
     
    #29
    Re: Propper @ SHOT

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jakhamr81</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe the rep was actually bitter at Propper for making products that are ridiculously over priced. Or, maybe he was just tired of people telling him that their products were not worth the extravagant prices they were asking.... Who knows? </div></div>

    lol well I can tell you from first hand experience that asking a vendor how well priced they thought they were against their competition for the markets they were trying to reach was pretty much a certain ticket towards rage-ville.

    laugh.gif


    Not going to mention any names. We'll just chalk that one up as a funny memorable experience. Was totally worth it.
     
    #30
    Re: Propper @ SHOT

    I've never dealt with anyone from Propper, but I do know that our work has issued us some of their gear; I have their "Combat Shirt" and I really feel like the tax payers got robbed on that one. That shirt is not worth anywhere near their $200 asking price. It's purchases like this that make me want to call the fraud waste and abuse hot line.
     
    #31
    Re: Propper @ SHOT

    I have to agree with the OP on this one. I went by their booth THREE times on the Tuesday of the show. It should be noted that the show was an absolute ZOO and it would be a challenge for every browser at their booth to receive attention the minute they started walking the Propper display. I wasn't dressed in a suit or anyting fancy but did wear a nice buttondown & trousers and carried a portfolio for taking notes, holding copies of my business license & resale certificate, etc. Each of the three visits consisted of me inspecting the items of interest displayed for 5-10 minutes at a time. NOT ONCE did any of the Propper staffers introduce themself or inquire as to whether I may be interested in their merchandise. On the last two visits, once it became pretty obvious I was being ignored (I'm pretty patient but finally got the hint), I tried to solicit some help directly. No joke, on one occasion a rep actually made eye contact with me from about 10 feet & promptly turned around & started talking with another rep. After that, I figured that there was no sense trying to do business with a company if this was the attention they would give to my business.

    What is even worse is I had a checkbook in my backpack and was looking to spend some money! I know their backpacks pretty well & have been interested in offering them for some time. Oh well, I found two other companies that can fill the void nicely. Their booth reps were courteous & professional and I'll be adding their stuff within a couple of months...

    Like one of the guys here mentioned, MAYBE they had some unvetted reps staffing their booth. If so, shame on them for not putting a better foot forward at the "Super Bowl" of trade shows within this industry. I don't hold any animosity toward them but I have to admit I was disappointed that they came across as arrogant.
     
    #32
    Re: Propper @ SHOT

    Same thing happened to me with a few buddies standing at a company who makes lights. They are relatively new and were very energetic and excited to show off their product. Their name is FIRST LIGHT USA. They make a top notch weapons light and I highly recommend checking them out. I got one in the mail a few days ago and really like having it in my car. Its a handy tool.

    But on the other hand... you have Surefire. They are a huge company that only care about the guys that are there representing the military, police, SRT and so on. One of the guys I traveled with works in our local store here and is the LE sales guy. He walked in to place an order of pistol lights, M900 lights and some basic hand held flashlights. They only order surefire because of the composite bodies that they are made to carry. They treated him like some bum off the street. Because he didn't have FBI stamped across his badge. I walked up to one of the suppressor guys and asked him to tell me about the mini monster and new mounting system. He looked at me like "are you serious". I just got a bad vibe from them and H&K. They act like if your not military you can piss off. But whatever, I wont carry their stuff if they cant step up their attitudes. Am I mad at them? No, just let down in how they treat the normal guys, the ones that put them in business.

    I understand where your coming from OP. Sometimes you just have to let it roll off and keep walking. I ran into a lot of booths that were more then happy to talk to me and my group. First Light, GAP, Vortex, Premier Heritage, USO, Manners all those and more were very friendly.
     
    #33
    Re: Propper @ SHOT

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StanwoodSpartan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> He came over and before we could ask anything he told us that the stuff he had on his walls were too expensive for us </div></div>

    ROFLMAO,... One of the biggest arms dealers in the world is only 24 years old, but he looks like he's all of 19,...those guys will go far.

    That 24 yo kid could buy an sell folks like with his pocket change.
     
    #34
    Re: Propper @ SHOT

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But on the other hand... you have Surefire. They are a huge company that only care about the guys that are there representing the military, police, SRT and so on. One of the guys I traveled with works in our local store here and is the LE sales guy. He walked in to place an order of pistol lights, M900 lights and some basic hand held flashlights. They only order surefire because of the composite bodies that they are made to carry. They treated him like some bum off the street. Because he didn't have FBI stamped across his badge.</div></div>

    Ky,

    If your buddy is still looking to buy from Surefire, hook him up with "Chucky" (Chuck Vlasek) from here in Hide. This guy could not have been any nicer. Yes, he is involved with their Military Sales, but I would bet my last buck he will help if he can.

    I went to him for some info on just a few simple flashlights, told him what I was trying to do, and he took the time to help. He could have very easily "towed the line" and pointed me in a very expensive direction. Instead he matched me up with the perfect light, and listed several option's to mount it that included unit's not made by them to meet my price range.

    Very cool cat to deal with!

    Chuck Vlasek
    SureFire Military Sales
    [email protected]

    -Pat
     
    #35
    Re: Propper @ SHOT

    Don't know about their reps, but I guarantee they are never getting another sale from me. I ordered a full set of ACUs with garrison cap and boonie and nothing fit. I mean come on how difficult is it to sew a 7-1/4 tag into a hat that is actually 7-1/4 not a 7. Ended up getting a refund and went with BDUs from another vendor who repped Tru-spec.

    Sorry but I believe if you are going to get and print NSNs on your stuff it should actually fit!
     
    #36
    Re: Propper @ SHOT

    This has been an interesting read. I recall back in the day when it was good clean high school fun to dummy up a credential to get into SHOT like kids into "I'm Curious Yellow".

    Then again I do smile when a newbie wanders into here with the 99th rendition of 'whats the best blah,blah,blah' and the 'old hands' line up to envoke the search function credo.

    So some day, long into the line of faux customers a guy isnt at his best... nut up!

    The comments on how pricey their stuff is amusing. Lots of guys 'justify' the very pricey bolt-ons, rifle tweeking, electronic gizmos, 17 way adjustable stocks with flame proof liner, rifle case that cost as much as my first car.

    Then of course there is the paint jobs some rifles get that even the chuntaros think are off the chain.

    All the above is kosher but overpricing tacti-cool clothes is beyond the pale?

    My rule of thumb is if you want free bee crap for just showing up, only talk to the 1st year companies that dont have major pork barrel no bid .gov contracts.

    Otherwise like in many other dealings, be real or be gone. Big time guys really dont have time for nickel bag deals.

    Well thats what the video game "Thugger 12" taught me.

    Slap da bitches n pimp dem hos!
     
    #37
    Re: Propper @ SHOT

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: notquiteright</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This has been an interesting read. I recall back in the day when it was good clean high school fun to dummy up a credential to get into SHOT like kids into "I'm Curious Yellow".

    Then again I do smile when a newbie wanders into here with the 99th rendition of 'whats the best blah,blah,blah' and the 'old hands' line up to envoke the search function credo.

    So some day, long into the line of faux customers a guy isnt at his best... nut up!

    The comments on how pricey their stuff is amusing. Lots of guys 'justify' the very pricey bolt-ons, rifle tweeking, electronic gizmos, 17 way adjustable stocks with flame proof liner, rifle case that cost as much as my first car.

    Then of course there is the paint jobs some rifles get that even the chuntaros think are off the chain.

    All the above is kosher but overpricing tacti-cool clothes is beyond the pale?

    My rule of thumb is if you want free bee crap for just showing up, only talk to the 1st year companies that dont have major pork barrel no bid .gov contracts.

    Otherwise like in many other dealings, be real or be gone. Big time guys really dont have time for nickel bag deals.

    Well thats what the video game "Thugger 12" taught me.

    Slap da bitches n pimp dem hos!

    </div></div>



    ????????
     
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