That would be Joizee Bois…
Doh!
I just realized y'all are talking about sponsored shooters, wearing a "jersey."
I thought everybody was posting about shooters from New Jersey, thinking, they have that many PRS shooters from New Jersey???
PRS rimfire director bullies youth shooter at prize table
- Thread starter five5six
- Start date
Wow I didn't realize how stupid people are, especially those who don't shoot matches and have no idea what their talking about.
After 2 days of shooting outside for 8-10 hours now you expect the prize table to take 3+ hours to complete ( 130 shooters * 2 minutes) as people are trying to catch flights and make their long drives home.
There are easy ways to address the issue and they are already implemented in most matches.
IMO Prize table rules should be published at match sign up along with other information that let's people decide if they want to shoot a match based on how the MD has setup said match. Time hacks ( 90 vs 99 vs 105v 110 or 120s stages) should be as well. That way no one can complain as they were given advanced warning. And people can shoot the matches with the rules they like.
First of all, the youth shooter fucked up. It was not their turn to pick and they either knowingly or through ignorance picked a item before the person in front of them did. This completely invalidates any argument you can make.
But if you need more, this "youth" is a fully sponsored shooter who is almost an adult and has been competing for over 5 years. They get more gear and free shit than ANYONE and you could argue they need something from the prize table least of all. Not to mention they don't have to work, raise a family, ect like normal people....paying their own way.
Stop using hyperbole like steal or snatched. It couldn't be stealing since Matt has superior rights to the item. Period the end. And he sure as shit didn't rip it from the kids hands like the liars in here are insinuating.
On the uneducated surface does it look bad to the uninformed? Some big mean jersey Boi stealing a prize from this poor little victim kid on their way to see dying grandma before heading to the soup kitchen to vollenteer? Sure.
Thankfully details matter and when you understand the situation, it makes the NRL leadership look like a group of fucking retards by playing this cancel culture bullshit. Anyone who has been around Matt at prize tables knows he typically gives his walk or gear to youth/new shooters.
People here just talking shit and taking shots wouldn't have the balls to do it to the man's face anyway. Typical internet trolls.
I’ve shot a ton of matches, and RO’d a few national matches. But, you are correct that it has been a couple of years. My son and I took a hiatus when reloading components really went hay-wire. That was also about the time he got into sporting clays and my shooting money got poured into shotgun shells and NSCA tournament fees. Recently, we’ve been shooting more run-n-gun comps and USPSA events.
And, yeah, it’s not a charity. Shooters shouldn’t feel entitled to “good prizes” simply for the fact that “they have bills to pay.”
Your idea is just as stupid and time consuming.
If like you want the big bad jersey wearing types get unlimited time to go around and snatch whatever they want from anyone else at the prize table, how long do you have to actually be at the prize table before you can pickup something you want and not worry about somebody snatching it from you?
Do you have to wait around at the table until all the asses with Jerseys leave the venue completely and don't decide to come rushing back and take something they decided they wanted?
You can easily have the contents of the prize table published or laid out before the match.
If your jersey wearers are only going to show up for cool stuff, then fine, announce ahead of time the xxx top type get a minuet or two to decide what they want and then go pick it up, then clear out, no whining about changing their minds.
Then let everyone else have at it as they want, first to have hands on something gets it, be an adult about things.
And yes before you comment that I've never done it, I did shoot a match that did the prize table exactly like that and all was fine.
Otherwise just assign all the prizes ahead of time based on what score position gets what and then folks can trade or sell later on like most of the Jersey wearing types do with their precious stuff anyways.
Show us on the doll where the jersey man touched you. Some of the best and worst shooters wear jerseys. Some of the best and worst shooters don't. Your shit is weak come up with something better.
You don't shoot shit so your opinion on the matter is worthless. 99% of matches go on without issue.
You sound like someone with a jersey cornholed ya or something. It's not me your mad at...go talk to your therapist.
PRS/NRL drama during pride month....fitting.
Last edited:
No one feels entitled. The gear is donated and those that perform deserve it. Don't like it...shoot better or stay home and cry and bitch about matches like half the people in here. It's easier to do that then go try something hard.
Strangest gay pride flex i’ve read all month
I was not at that event and did not witness the actions, so in the face of opposing accounts I hold no opinion on the matter.
But, as a competitive shooter that has walked numerous prize tables, a sponsor that has put tens of thousands of dollars on prize table, and a Match Director that has provided large prize tables for numerous competitive events, I can say with a degree of authority that they are a gigantic pain in the ass and a disappointing look into human nature. That said, there are undeniable benefits in providing a prize table at large, "important", and high-draw matches. As much of a pain in the ass as they are, and as much as I wish it weren't so, big prize tables get more shooters, more attention, and more advertising reach. If you don't care about walking the table, great, I have given up my walk more than once, even if only to get on the road early. I hold a lot of respect for those that donate their prizes to new/youth shooters, but that should not be expected of anyone. I know quite a few "pro" shooters that use their winnings to supplement their income, as "professional shooter" pay for the majority of folks in that category is barely paying the bills. Yeah, it's their choice to do that, but the point is that performing/placing well is expected to come with a decent prize at a major match with good support and sponsorship.
When it comes to a prize table walk, I think it runs best when everyone is briefed immediately prior to the place announcements what order will be called, and what table to go to, if it's broken up. Prize table layouts can easily be worth over $25,000, and with that amount of investment by customers and sponsors comes a level of responsibility on the part of the MD to keep things orderly and organized. As much as we crave anticipatory tension in the announcement of winners, by the time it comes to calling names everyone knows where they placed if they care, so being clear about how the prizes will be made available and giving enough time to get people in and out of the door helps a lot. People understanding that the person in front of them has first dibs is also helpful.
Again, I wasn't there and I don't know exactly what happened, just looking at the majority of comments related to prize tables made me want to throw another perspective out there.
But, as a competitive shooter that has walked numerous prize tables, a sponsor that has put tens of thousands of dollars on prize table, and a Match Director that has provided large prize tables for numerous competitive events, I can say with a degree of authority that they are a gigantic pain in the ass and a disappointing look into human nature. That said, there are undeniable benefits in providing a prize table at large, "important", and high-draw matches. As much of a pain in the ass as they are, and as much as I wish it weren't so, big prize tables get more shooters, more attention, and more advertising reach. If you don't care about walking the table, great, I have given up my walk more than once, even if only to get on the road early. I hold a lot of respect for those that donate their prizes to new/youth shooters, but that should not be expected of anyone. I know quite a few "pro" shooters that use their winnings to supplement their income, as "professional shooter" pay for the majority of folks in that category is barely paying the bills. Yeah, it's their choice to do that, but the point is that performing/placing well is expected to come with a decent prize at a major match with good support and sponsorship.
When it comes to a prize table walk, I think it runs best when everyone is briefed immediately prior to the place announcements what order will be called, and what table to go to, if it's broken up. Prize table layouts can easily be worth over $25,000, and with that amount of investment by customers and sponsors comes a level of responsibility on the part of the MD to keep things orderly and organized. As much as we crave anticipatory tension in the announcement of winners, by the time it comes to calling names everyone knows where they placed if they care, so being clear about how the prizes will be made available and giving enough time to get people in and out of the door helps a lot. People understanding that the person in front of them has first dibs is also helpful.
Again, I wasn't there and I don't know exactly what happened, just looking at the majority of comments related to prize tables made me want to throw another perspective out there.
Well said.
Now quick, someone lock this thread already. The horse is dead. @Rob01 You could be the hero we need here.
Given your experience, would eliminating prize tables and replacing them with transparent cash prizes draw the same crowd and mitigate the entitled squabbling of grown-ass “men”? These jersey queens walk the prize table like it’s a stage at the competition.
NSCA Nationals draws an order of magnitude more shooters than any of these PRS events. Top 3 in each division get a cash prize. Trophies and smaller awards are available as well. My son placed well enough for 2 trophies at the last national tournament he shot. We got a flyer in the mail a few weeks after the event with instructions for him to pick his prize(s). They showed up a few weeks after we sent the flyer back to the NSCA. Super painless. No drama. I assume the money prizes are disbursed as a check after the event as well. Maybe HOA gets a promo picture with a foam check?
According to the resident expert on PRS and prize tables, no shooters placing high enough to get anything better than a bottle of Hoppes and a hat needs anything on the table. And, many/most are selling their prizes to supplement their income (offset their costs). Would shooters show up for cash? Is water wet?
Eliminating opinions of people who have no stake or understanding of how this stuff works from this thread would provide way more value to the community.
Last edited:
Thank you for your perspective Jack! I cannot speak from the sponsor side but can as a competitor and MD and I agree. I have a responsibility to ensure the match is not just challenging and fun but an organized and well thought out experience. There is a big customer service aspect to it and while everyone may not agree, the prize tables are a responsibility of mine to ensure fairness and timeliness.
I think in many disciplines there is a known walk etiquette but I don't think it's fair to assume everyone automatically knows what it is, as it varies depending where you go and what you compete in. This is where I think Jack is spot on in briefing the competitors on what is to happen for awards.
I would love to just hand out cash prizes, but sponsors will always far more prefer to send products.
I think you guys did a great job at the prize table at Steel City. It was what I was playing back in my head when I described the procedure that I think works.
Appreciate it. NRL Hunter has established walk for Overall and 1-3 in divisions.
Overall, 1st Factory, 1st Open Light, 1st Open Heavy, Young Gun and Woman get trophy but walk table for overall placement then repeat. After 1-3 are called it’s in overall placement until table is empty.
We were very fortunate to have great sponsors who were very generous that every competitor as well as skills division was able to walk the table. Then once at the bottom I started bottom to top. Seemed to work well and no elbow had to be thrown haha
Wow so 270 shooters get a participation trophy sounds pretty fucking lame to me have fun stroking each other's cocks. Pass.
If there were enough prizes donated by sponsors for all 270, what’s the issue with that?
My point is I can see some special prizes given out to the top ten shooters, but after that just let everyone else have their door prize and hit the road do you really need to call everyone up after the top ten? WTF....LOL
You obviously know nothing about matches but thanks for your uninformed opinion on something you don't do. LOL
Oh yea for sure. At some point for efficiency the names/placement get rattled off. I’ve typically seen etiquette even with a line of people. It’s really not hard to be courteous.
Yeah, I know sometimes common sense just hard to understand.
So, I ask you how many shooters get a special prize and get to come up individually?
Are you telling me if a match had 270 people in it all 270 people get a prize 1-270.
I honestly don't know so please inform me.
There was no common sense in your first post as it was laughable to anyone who knows about matches. At a national finale match like that yes there can be that many prizes but even at half it's still 4.5 hours which is ridiculous.
Once again I ask you how are the top 1-? prizes given out I honestly don't know I figured the top 1-10, 1-15, 1-20? I honestly don't know. At what point is it "come grab your participation trophy" surly not everyone is called up induvial right?
All depends on the match. Some do the top 3 of the divisions and then start at next position in overall and call 5 up at a time and keep it going until table is empty and some call individual. All depends on the MD and how they want to run it.
What’s true is that for the largest percentage of matches, this isn’t an issue. In this case even, the situation was completely blown all out of proportion by some incorrect internet information and became this mess.
Not a good optic? Absolutely. Are we seeing it from a distorted view? Absolutely.
Shot FTR for a few years. Did well. Took 2nd in the Texas State Championship several years ago.
Never even got a fucking 3$ trophy.
Never even got a fucking 3$ trophy.
I’ve got some leftover plaques from my matches and can send you one if you like…
Highpower and FClass are both that way
Ok I will admit I don't know how matches are ran, but can we at least agree that once a prize is picked nobody should be able to take the prize out of someone else's hand once they already have possession of the prize?
I am good, thanks tho.I’ve got some leftover plaques from my matches and can send you one if you like…
Why? You don't understand anything anyone is talking about yet want to talk shit about it.
If you just asked nicely instead of insulting everyone who competes you might get a different response.
Yeah, I will admit I don't understand why giving out prizes in a rifle match is so complicated. It seems like the top finishers should be the only ones getting prizes I didn't realize everyone who competed in the match got their own special little prize they had to be called up for which takes hours to do.
My bad BTW the tampons are on isle 12 in case you need a resupply!
Not all tables have enough for everyone. Most big 2-day matches are between 90-150 competitors, some may have more or less. GAO Grind Pro/Am has as many as 400. It really doesn’t take as long as people who aren’t knowing of these matches think to do prizes. The match fees are also $275-$325 on average.
I didn’t have a PRS table pic handy but this is from NRL Hunter so you have a reference of what a 2-day national level match could look like.
This entire “prize table” is a stupid bunch of stuff normally exiting the south end of a north bond bull. (Trying to quit cussing so much or I’m gonna get kicked out)
What is a prize table, it’s a display loaded with a bunch of stuff donated by industry sources, given to the top shooters who normally don’t need or can’t use anything on the table. So, they pick something up, smile for the camera, and put what to them is nothing more than a trinket on eBay or gunbroker the next day in hopes of recouping some needed cash. CASH, is the key word here.
Eliminate all this bickering, and potential problems. Attach a check to the winners/top finishers trophy and call it good. Always worked for us at horse shows. We trained the horses, and when we made the tie (placed) attached to our placement ribbons was a check. Not much, but on good night, the cash sure came in handy.
So rather than trinkets and other ‘goodies” which may or may not be much good to the winner, just skip the nonsense and give cash. The industry sources can get their money back in the match director’s making sure their advertising banners and recognition of prices is well noted.
What is a prize table, it’s a display loaded with a bunch of stuff donated by industry sources, given to the top shooters who normally don’t need or can’t use anything on the table. So, they pick something up, smile for the camera, and put what to them is nothing more than a trinket on eBay or gunbroker the next day in hopes of recouping some needed cash. CASH, is the key word here.
Eliminate all this bickering, and potential problems. Attach a check to the winners/top finishers trophy and call it good. Always worked for us at horse shows. We trained the horses, and when we made the tie (placed) attached to our placement ribbons was a check. Not much, but on good night, the cash sure came in handy.
So rather than trinkets and other ‘goodies” which may or may not be much good to the winner, just skip the nonsense and give cash. The industry sources can get their money back in the match director’s making sure their advertising banners and recognition of prices is well noted.
There's a baffling incomprehension of the whole situation...by alot of people commenting on this thread.
Prize tables at year end matches are typically multi-faceted in purpose. They are often well supported by the companies, and include what is basically "major prizes" of significant value, plus what amounts to "swag", for the common shooters.
Alot of these are NOT meant to be cash prizes. ... They are meant to build publicity and brand value by putting gear into the hands of competiors, and while we might consider "competiors actually who are competive" (ie the top 20), for marketing purposes, they are treating anyone invited to nationals or (whatever series) a part of "target market", of people who it probably makes some sense to treat nicely, etc.
There really isn't anything nefarious about this setup, other than at some stage, alot of the same guys keep winning top prizes, and after a while, if they are all "free scopes" or etc, people only need so many pieces of kit...so this stuff tends to get re-sold.
But there is value to the industry in getting gear into the hands of people who actually shoot 1,000s of rounds a year. If there needs to be some price-discounts to "ease" the pain, sometimes that's OK. ie, that's the purpose of many pro-deals and deals for industry units/mil/leo etc.
Prize tables at year end matches are typically multi-faceted in purpose. They are often well supported by the companies, and include what is basically "major prizes" of significant value, plus what amounts to "swag", for the common shooters.
Alot of these are NOT meant to be cash prizes. ... They are meant to build publicity and brand value by putting gear into the hands of competiors, and while we might consider "competiors actually who are competive" (ie the top 20), for marketing purposes, they are treating anyone invited to nationals or (whatever series) a part of "target market", of people who it probably makes some sense to treat nicely, etc.
There really isn't anything nefarious about this setup, other than at some stage, alot of the same guys keep winning top prizes, and after a while, if they are all "free scopes" or etc, people only need so many pieces of kit...so this stuff tends to get re-sold.
But there is value to the industry in getting gear into the hands of people who actually shoot 1,000s of rounds a year. If there needs to be some price-discounts to "ease" the pain, sometimes that's OK. ie, that's the purpose of many pro-deals and deals for industry units/mil/leo etc.
Something else to consider about prize tables. Cash hits a company’s balance sheet differently than product. $1000 in cash is typically a bigger number- on that sheet- than $1000 in goods. As such, companies can “do more with less” when they put their goods/products on a table.
That said, match directors should order the prize table by msrp of the prize. Queue everyone according to the designated “pick order.” Run everyone through the table like the buffet at Luby’s, starting at the high end stuff and ending at the hats, Hoppes, and stickers. No cuts. No stopping. No backing up. If it is there when you walk by, grab it. No picking food off of someone else’s plate. Please keep your hands and your children out of the orange jello.
By the way, this is the most used item I’ve picked up off of a prize table (not the most valuable, but used almost daily)…
Not the cup, the sticker. I don’t shoot an AI, but it’s a cool sticker…
That said, match directors should order the prize table by msrp of the prize. Queue everyone according to the designated “pick order.” Run everyone through the table like the buffet at Luby’s, starting at the high end stuff and ending at the hats, Hoppes, and stickers. No cuts. No stopping. No backing up. If it is there when you walk by, grab it. No picking food off of someone else’s plate. Please keep your hands and your children out of the orange jello.
By the way, this is the most used item I’ve picked up off of a prize table (not the most valuable, but used almost daily)…
Not the cup, the sticker. I don’t shoot an AI, but it’s a cool sticker…
Coming from the horse world I used to wonder the same thing. It seems much easier to just pay out cash - pot a portion of everyone’s entries and then include added money from industry sponsors, and cut everyone in the top however many a check proportionate to how they placed. If a big 2day match had a $10k pot from entries plus $15k in added money instead of a $25k prize table that would be something.
But the prize table thing has a lot of institutional inertia, and like Jack said it is easier for MDs to get prizes than cash donations out of sponsors. Mainly because, as ma smith & hlee pointed out a lot of prizes are either swag, lower priced items, or certificates that convey the right to buy a product at a discount. All of these are likely seen by the donor as better return on investment than a check and a banner.
And there are AG cup matches for guys who really want to shoot for checks.
I eventually figured out that PRS is just too damn small to really compare to something like horse showing or rodeo.
Generally “professional horseman” don’t show in the same class as amateur and novice riders - it’s bad business to compete directly against your customers.
In PRS the “pros” compete directly against even the greenest of green novice shooters every weekend. And often there just aren’t enough people shooting these comps to break everyone up into separate divisions with truly separate awards. Plus no guy who considers himself a Pro wants to be last out of 20 when he can be 25th out of 150….
The NRL is better about awarding top 3 places in each division than the PRS, but most of the divisions have nothing to do with shooter skill or experience, and after the top three it reverts back to order of finish overall anyways.
There are always going to be some jerks, but many of the “pros” understand it’s the midpack and lower folks who actually make the matches possible and they conduct themselves accordingly. At least in my experience Stiner has always been one of the good ones. I’ve met some jerks at matches (mostly when volunteering as an RO), but he was never one of them. From what I’ve seen he’s always been friendly and helpful to newer shooters, and this sure seems like something that may have gotten a bit out of hand.
When you shoot a match, you meet everyone in your squad, and maybe some of the people in the squads immediately before or after you. Maybe you meet a few more at a “mixer” or a match dinner. Most people can behave when they know they are stuck with a group for the day, or weekend. But when you RO a match, you have the potential to meet everyone at the match- they’re all shooting your stage after all. And, if you do meet them, it is likely because there is a discrepancy between how they saw themselves shoot the stage and how you saw them shoot the stage. And, some just feel entitled to abuse the help.
Ain’t that the truth.
Thankfully the ones who are either openly abusive or who try to bully their way into an advantage or extra point are rare enough that they tend to stand out amongst a sea of otherwise very pleasant folks. And the ones who are appreciative make it worth the work.
Last edited:
This is still the unanswered question for me.
How many shooters/top shooters get a real prize?" Top 5? Top 10? Top 15? Top 20? Top 25?
At what point are they just handing out participation prizes?
It's easy to tell the guys on this thread who get butt hurt when they don't get their "participation prize"....LOL
In our world, we trained the horses the armatures rode. So, when they came out of the ring with their ribbon, the check was given to us as trainers. We expected it, especailly considering how little they paid for each month of training. We worked their horse(a) daily, fed them, maintained the stalls and provide daily care. The owners paid any vet bills, farrier expenses, show entry fees and paid us transportation fees for the time they were at the show. Sounds like they are getting taken? Well we got $175.00 a month base rate to care for, feed and train their horses. I still can’t beleive how much money we lost, and we had some decent horses in our barn, not many but horses that regularly came out in the top five except for Fashion’s Flirt, if she did not come out with the blue, we worried about the honesty of the judge(s). Flirt was a really nice little horse, Not a national winner, but she won her class in some good shows in Louisiana, Texas, Arkansas and Mississippi, (finally Mississippi we were jinxed in that state, till Flirt won big at Forest, one Saturday night.
Riding against the amateurs? That was Brenda’s job, I had the trainer’s license, but Brenda (who was a damn fine rider and trainer)was eligible to ride in non pro classes. She was up that night in Forest, and we had at least one world championship trainers horse, owned by a millionaire among the also rans. We needed Flirt to win, because we needed the publicity.
Getting back to the subjecyt at hand, Men if you are really interested in making a Million dollars. Go into the horse business with $10,000,000.00. I feel that many smaller sports are lead by men and women who compete professionally but could never hope to earn a living off their winnings and sponsorships. So, they have to fall back on other careers. Be a gunsmith or build custom guns. Work for a range owner and give classes/training or provide independent training in the given sport. Just plain have another job. That’s why I say, Forget the Prize Table and ask the companies to put a little cash in the pot instead. The men and women who lead the sport need it. Without these leaders the companies will ahve no really capable men and women Getting their name out. Fashion’s Flirt did this for our barn. The top shooters are doing it for MDT, MPA Manners, Impact Precision even Leupold. they don’t need a set of rings or a chassis from a company that is in direct completion with their sponsor. They need cash.
You were wondering how i was going to tie this in with the discussion, didn’t you? Come on admit it.
Last edited:
