PRS Talk PRS - Should Gear Become More Restricted???

[skulldragr17]

There are always new and innovative products that come out to enhance the shooter's ability to get successful hits on target. At any point is it too much? This thread is NOT for gripes and complaints, but rather to describe what your ideal PRS rules would or would not entail.

Having been in the military, I have a more practical and tactical perspective to this. I would really like to see the restrictions set to a bipod, sling, rear bag and a tripod. One of each, not one to swap out in every stage. A sniper would utilize this equipment, and not a whole lot more. Yes, there are always some exceptions. To me, marksmanship is something you should be able to take anywhere. I've been able to observe many people utilize fancy equipment to substitute for their lack of ability or fundamentals. I am not saying, by any means, that all shooters that use fancy equipment do not have proper fundamentals! However, there are many people that could not shoot well at all without any of that equipment. There is no doubt that the equipment helps tremendously with building a solid position, and to be frank, it is almost necessary to be competitive in the sport. So why not just get rid of those unnecessary, impractical pieces of gear, put everyone on the same level and go back to needing to have proper fundamentals?

Whenever there is equipment involved that essentially mitigates the movement of your reticle to the point where you don't really need a slow squeeze, natural point of aim, proper body position, etc to make a successful shot, you simply stop doing those things. You are moving yourself in a negative direction as a shooter. Fundamentals soon go out the window and you will soon no longer be able to recognize what you are doing wrong as a shooter.

We all know that getting into PRS can be an intimidating and overly priced excursion. I believe this would help out that cause quite a bit, as well.

Anyways, there is my opinion. I look forward to hearing other perspectives, thoughts and ideas!

 

[birddogsx3]

I second your belief. I would go as far also limiting the gear used on specific stages. Anything that puts the focus on the shooter and not on equipment is a move in the right direction. The amount of gear that some folks carry is mind blowing and quickly adds to an already expensive endeavor. It would also cut down on getting to squad up together and everyone picking a different piece of gear to carry and sharing once you get to a stage. If the gear is limited everyone has the same kit certainty would level the playing field and focus on fundamentals a lot more. Hopefully help the sport grow.

 

[bribassguy]

I am a new shooter and non military... here's my perspective: I think that you should not limit innovation... it tough to right tough rules around gear.

Maybe you'd be better off with a tactical class of PRS that limits gear and use what you want in open.

 

[MarkCO]

I have always taken the approach that Open is Open and other than speed limits, anything should be okay. While I still think that, I also think there should be more focus on the shooter and not how much gear one can buy to eliminate the shooter's lack of needing to employ the fundamentals.

There are 3 Divisions now, and I think that there is some validity to make Tactical and Production to allow only one bag, one sling and a bipod. Would making a 4th Division allowing Open rifles, but gear restricted with one bag, one sling, one bi-pod and one tripod be beneficial to the sport...or would it detrimentally split open?

 

[briang7511]

Anytime someone makes rules for a competitor, those rules get pushed to the limits. Nascar for example. No need for debates at matches on what gear is acceptable and what is not. Gear is expensive but compared to the rifle/optic it is not that bad. If a rule like this were to be implemented perhaps the tactical division would benefit the most from this. Lets leave open division alone. No discussion, run what ya bring.

 

[diverdon]

As long as the shooter can carry it from one station to the next in a timely manner I don't see a problem.

 

[birddogsx3]

If you could limit it to the "one shooter" problem is teams and groups squad together and everybody halls different gear and then swap. Which is fine if your a team or a group of shooters, for the individual not so much. I do like the idea of having the open run what you brung and then limit the tactical and production classes. Similar to running in top fuel vs. super stock in NHRA.

 

[Dag34]

I am om with limiting production class, maybe some restrictions on tactical but absolutely not for open.

The last thing we need in this industry is to limit our selves. I feel PRS has its roots in sniper type competitions but it has evolved into its own discipline. Trying to regulate PRS to more closely resemble a snipers job would be going backwards.

I was at the OH match this weekend and it was not a match about gear, fundamentals and wind calling won the weekend.

Besides bags and tripods what gear would you want to limit? Tripods were prevalent when I first started shooting 2 years ago, now they are almost never deployed. Mine is usually used for binos.

 

[skulldragr17]

Limiting PRS is not limiting ourselves; it's actually making better marksman. My real concern is how fast the gear is evolving. The more advanced the equipment is, the less the fundamentals need to be applied to hit a target. This is just my view on this. With some of the gear I had tried, no effort was needed to make the shot, obviously other than a wind call.

I agree that PRS has evolved into it's own discipline, and that is fine. However, it is evolving to include so much different gear that it is almost impractical. Don't get me wrong, this gear is definitely effective at it's intentions. I'm just trying to visualize the sport years down the road.

 

[MM5326]

When you say "gear" do you just mean support bags and tripods, or electronics too? I would argue that using a Kestrel and a range finder takes more field craft and skill out of long range shooting than any bag or support does.

I think that there probably will become a time when the ancillary gear reaches a level that is "too much," but a strictly enforced rule like "If YOU carry it, then you can use it" would be self limiting. Theres only so much shit you can carry on your back before you're smoked and your shooting really goes to shit. If I were a match director I would design a stage or two where you're not allowed to use anything other than the bipod. No bags, no slings, no tripods or shooting sticks. An Open division where nothing is restricted about your gun specifications other than the muzzle velocity and caliber it doesn't make sense to me to ban the use of certain types of gear.

What gear did you try out that was so good that all you needed was a wind call? (I need one.)

 

[BrianPTR]

AccOrd0317, for the benefit of this post can you list some of the gear that should be restricted?

Thanks!

 

[Lionsbreath]

I'm enjoying this thread keep talking guys.. I'm a rookie (1 match under my belt) humbling experience, still upset at how I shot, nevertheless lotta fun! I'm also poor, so how do I compete against guys toting $500 worth of bags? I really don't wanna stagger around like the Michelin man with bags for my bags.. I mean what's the point in barricades when you can wedge a bag under/in every nook and cranny.. next time I'm taking 3 pillows and a roll of duct tape.. I guess I would support saying to hay with bags period except for maybe a rear bag that has a size limit. Run your bipods,slings,skid-plates, and barricade stops.. Same rules for every class.. If that came to fruition there would be a lot of American men that could flat shoot when the shit actually did hit the fan, instead of saying o shit where's my gamechanger.. I stand to be corrected though..

 

[epracmetcon]

Here are my thoughts on this. People that want to "restrict gear", are the ones that think it will level the playing field. It won't, the same guys that are at the top now, will still continue to be at the top, no matter what you restrict. If you can carry it, you should be able to use it.

 

[Forward543]

I think if you put a handful of stages that set gear restrictions, and leave the rest open you will continue to see innovation, and make better shooters. If you pull my bags ill roll up my coat, or use my pack, or find another way. Its the same as the evolution of the weapon itself. I dont see alot of wood stocks on these rifles.

 

[MM5326]

I'm enjoying this thread keep talking guys.. I'm a rookie (1 match under my belt) humbling experience, still upset at how I shot, nevertheless lotta fun! I'm also poor, so how do I compete against guys toting $500 worth of bags? I really don't wanna stagger around like the Michelin man with bags for my bags.. I mean what's the point in barricades when you can wedge a bag under/in every nook and cranny.. next time I'm taking 3 pillows and a roll of duct tape.. I guess I would support saying to hay with bags period except for maybe a rear bag that has a size limit. Run your bipods,slings,skid-plates, and barricade stops.. Same rules for every class.. If that came to fruition there would be a lot of American men that could flat shoot when the shit actually did hit the fan, instead of saying o shit where's my gamechanger.. I stand to be corrected though..

E
No offense, but the PRS Open Division is not a poor man's game. It takes a ton of disposable income or years of saving up to get a rifle and scope setup that is competitive. Hence the reason they now have the production division (which is still not cheap.)

Here's how you can compete with anybody carrying and using the most Gucci high-speed support bags of the day... You're already carrying your stuff in some sort of backpack, doesn't matter if you have a $25 Jansport or a $500 Eberlstock it'll work all the same. Put a sweatshirt or rain gear or whatever inside with your match gear and practice using it in every way imaginable. A pack used correctly will work just as good as a pump pillow. The key isn't to buy a bunch of shit and think it is going to make you a better shooter--it's finding pieces of kit that are multi purpose and practicing with them until building a solid position is second nature.

 

[morganlamprecht]

Here are my thoughts on this. People that want to "restrict gear", are the ones that think it will level the playing field. It won't, the same guys that are at the top now, will still continue to be at the top, no matter what you restrict. If you can carry it, you should be able to use it.

this is how i feel about it...i like the "you have to start every stage holding ALL your gear for the whole match" rules...if you can lug it around for the whole match, its fair game

at the brawl this past year, we had a TYL rack at 400 yds, prone, NO rear bag allowed, targets were like 8", 6", 4" and 2"...i think there was 4-5 guys in my squad who finished top 10...i think one of us got the smallest plate, the rest of us hit 3 out of the 4 pretty easily, the 4th was tough...the middle of the pack shooters in our squad were lucky to get past the 2nd target, and most struggled with the 1st one

open division PRS, in my opinion, is about hitting targets the most effective way possible...there are other disciplines that restrict position/gear/focus on only fundamentals like high power? i think? (im not sure as it doesnt really interest me), like mentioned above, take away my bags, i can use my pack (the bags are just more convenient)...i feel like it should be "who can hit the most targets in the best way they can find to hit them"...not "who can hit the most targets using some generic position that may/may not suck"...i like having my own options, i have about 5-6 different ways i can shoot a barricade, some use a bag, others a bipod/sling, others on a tripod, and another nothing but my rifle...they all work well, doesnt mean i enjoy someone else telling me which one i have to use

 

[Bacarrat]

Sorry, but it just looks silly watching dudes run around with a bunch of pillows. I call it a Game of Pillows. If anarchy ever breaks out, rest assured, Bed Bath and Beyond will be first place PRS shooters take over with all the pillows they have in stock.

 

[morganlamprecht]

Sorry, but it just looks silly watching dudes run around with a bunch of pillows. I call it a Game of Pillows. If anarchy ever breaks out, rest assured, Bed Bath and Beyond will be first place PRS shooters take over with all the pillows they have in stock.

all id need is my tripod, best option there is from prone to standing

 

[Mormegil87]

If there is a restriction limiting use to one bag, everyone will go by a Game Changer or a pillow of some sort. They can still be used effectively as rear bags as well as used as designed.

Not to mention if you want to shoot a match that restricts you to what you carry and is more "sniper" oriented there are plenty out there between the Competition Dynamics guys and the others like the Mammoth Sniper Challenge.

 

[Bacarrat]

all id need is my tripod, best option there is from prone to standing

I dunno man, you should really have a rear bag attached to your rifle, a bag attached under your rifle fore end, a bag under your leg and a bag under your arm all at the same time. That's some high speed stuff right there.

 

[RyanM]

I agree with the sentiment of limiting gear but I think banning it outright is the wrong way to go about it.

Up here in Canada we have a limited scene but it is growing. I have currently run 3 matches and personally designed the COF for all of them (will have run maybe 6 matches by the end of the year). As things develop I am starting to see things like tripods, gamechangers and lots of pillows show up. I personally don't have an issue with any of it. I think that an individual should be able use them if they have them.

However, when I design the COF I make sure, to the best of my ability, that certain stages eliminate or make it challenging to use a bunch of gear. I do this either by limiting time, having lots of movement, making smaller holes to shoot through (reduces gamechanger benefits). I am currently working on a way of making the MPA chassis less effective, mostly because I don't have one and want to screw them over.

At the last match one guy asked if he could use a tripod on the PRS barricade skills stage (my modified version of it at least). I flat out said no on that one as I feel that is not in the spirit of the stage but that is a very specific circumstance.

I think MDs have a responsibility to evolve to make better marksman out of all of us.

 

[morganlamprecht]

I dunno man, you should really have a rear bag attached to your rifle, a bag attached under your rifle fore end, a bag under your leg and a bag under your arm all at the same time. That's some high speed stuff right there.

lol the only reason i still use any bags other than a small rear bag...is because most MDs wont allow me to use my tripod on the majority of stages

 

[CharlieNC]

Is a leadsled on wheels legal?

 

[morganlamprecht]

I agree with the sentiment of limiting gear but I think banning it outright is the wrong way to go about it.

Up here in Canada we have a limited scene but it is growing. I have currently run 3 matches and personally designed the COF for all of them (will have run maybe 6 matches by the end of the year). As things develop I am starting to see things like tripods, gamechangers and lots of pillows show up. I personally don't have an issue with any of it. I think that an individual should be able use them if they have them.

However, when I design the COF I make sure, to the best of my ability, that certain stages eliminate or make it challenging to use a bunch of gear. I do this either by limiting time, having lots of movement, making smaller holes to shoot through (reduces gamechanger benefits). I am currently working on a way of making the MPA chassis less effective, mostly because I don't have one and want to screw them over.

At the last match one guy asked if he could use a tripod on the PRS barricade skills stage (my modified version of it at least). I flat out said no on that one as I feel that is not in the spirit of the stage but that is a very specific circumstance.

I think MDs have a responsibility to evolve to make better marksman out of all of us.

this is how it should be done in my opinion...make the stage dictate what can be used effectively, up to the shooter to figure out how to approach it

 

[epracmetcon]

this is how i feel about it...i like the "you have to start every stage holding ALL your gear for the whole match" rules...if you can lug it around for the whole match, its fair game

at the brawl this past year, we had a TYL rack at 400 yds, prone, NO rear bag allowed, targets were like 8", 6", 4" and 2"...i think there was 4-5 guys in my squad who finished top 10...i think one of us got the smallest plate, the rest of us hit 3 out of the 4 pretty easily, the 4th was tough...the middle of the pack shooters in our squad were lucky to get past the 2nd target, and most struggled with the 1st one

open division PRS, in my opinion, is about hitting targets the most effective way possible...there are other disciplines that restrict position/gear/focus on only fundamentals like high power? i think? (im not sure as it doesnt really interest me), like mentioned above, take away my bags, i can use my pack (the bags are just more convenient)...i feel like it should be "who can hit the most targets in the best way they can find to hit them"...not "who can hit the most targets using some generic position that may/may not suck"...i like having my own options, i have about 5-6 different ways i can shoot a barricade, some use a bag, others a bipod/sling, others on a tripod, and another nothing but my rifle...they all work well, doesnt mean i enjoy someone else telling me which one i have to use

At the South Dakota match this weekend, I only used 1 bag on almost all of the positional stuff. Cleaned the PRS skills stage on day one, and went 7/8 on day 2. You need to be efficient on these barricades to give yourself ample time to make good trigger presses and get steady. All you're doing to yourself when you try to use 2-3 bags is killing valuable time on the clock.

 

[RyanM]

At the South Dakota match this weekend, I only used 1 bag on almost all of the positional stuff. Cleaned the PRS skills stage on day one, and went 7/8 on day 2. You need to be efficient on these barricades to give yourself ample time to make good trigger presses and get steady. All you're doing to yourself when you try to use 2-3 bags is killing valuable time on the clock.

I see this at my matches as well. Some guys try to run bags, tripods, or some combination and they really just get in the way of themselves. If there is a 90 second par time there is limited time to fidget with stuff. If someone has spent the time to learn how to use additional gear quickly and efficiently I can't say they have not earned it.

 

[Mormegil87]

I see this at my matches as well. Some guys try to run bags, tripods, or some combination and they really just get in the way of themselves. If there is a 90 second par time there is limited time to fidget with stuff. If someone has spent the time to learn how to use additional gear quickly and efficiently I can't say they have not earned it.

I used one bag on the vast majority of stages. On most of the alternate position stages it was predominantly the Game Changer bag, either flipped upside down as a cradle or as it was intended as a barricade bag. I think most of my squad was in the same frame of mind, though many of us had multiple bags at our disposal for any given stage.

 

[Mormegil87]

I like the idea of using the stage/course of fire to limit what gear can be used. Jackin' around with 3 bags when you only have 90 seconds to shoot a stage eats up a lot of clock.

 

[mkollman74]

I like the idea of using the stage/course of fire to limit what gear can be used. Jackin' around with 3 bags when you only have 90 seconds to shoot a stage eats up a lot of clock.

This is where I would be at, coupled with stage rules per the match director's discretion (i.e. - bipod and sling only on this stage, etc) - at least for the open guys. If they want to have more limitations with other divisions eventually, so be it, but open means open. It is good to have innovative minds pushing the envelope of how something can be done. It improves the state of the art over time.

 

[morganlamprecht]

At the South Dakota match this weekend, I only used 1 bag on almost all of the positional stuff. Cleaned the PRS skills stage on day one, and went 7/8 on day 2. You need to be efficient on these barricades to give yourself ample time to make good trigger presses and get steady. All you're doing to yourself when you try to use 2-3 bags is killing valuable time on the clock.

id never use 2-3 bags, that's retarded

I could run thru the prs barricade under time using no bag, reverse loading my bipod and sling, or forward loading my magwell area+scope pinch, or just one bag (the game changer), or using no bag and tripod as a rear support (not allowed but i can still do it)...it's still my choice of which I wanna use

 

[Yoteski]

As a match director(not PRS) I like the idea of limiting the equipment in the field to make sure skill wins out. However, I think the only logical way to do it is to have the equipment provided at each stage. I.e. you can run a sling and one bipod, all bags, tripods, etc.will be provided at each stage based on position.

 

[mkollman74]

As a match director(not PRS) I like the idea of limiting the equipment in the field to make sure skill wins out. However, I think the only logical way to do it is to have the equipment provided at each stage. I.e. you can run a sling and one bipod, all bags, tripods, etc.will be provided at each stage based on position.

That's a clever solution.

 

[epracmetcon]

id never use 2-3 bags, that's retarded

I could run thru the prs barricade under time using no bag, reverse loading my bipod and sling, or forward loading my magwell area+scope pinch, or just one bag (the game changer), or using no bag and tripod as a rear support (not allowed but i can still do it)...it's still my choice of which I wanna use

Absolutely and neither would I, but you see a lot of mid pack shooters going up with several bags on a stage and fucking around and killing time. There are so many other efficient options, like you stated that are so solid. If people would just practice with them, they would be better shooters.

 

[RyanM]

There is no point in limiting the amount of gear at a match. As has been stated many times previously the best shooters will still continue to win.

There could be an adjustment period while techniques change but the winners win because they are out there practicing regularly.

Good practice should include using the gear you want to use and no gear because you never know what is going to come up.

Design creative stages and this problem takes care of it self. An easy way is having shooters run around, it is tough to carry a tripod, rifle, and spare bags. Or make them squeeze into a small space. There are lots of ways to make sure guys either know how to use their gear or how to get it done with out it.

 

[Greene]

My opinion for what little its worth. Natural skill and ability will win out at the end of the day almost every time. Sure extra gear, bags, etc can aid in shooting positions. But I personally don't think there should be gear restrictions. As long as they aren't full on gaming to the point of cheating or manipulating the stage description beyond reason. As long as its in the realm of the COF for that stage let it go. I personally have watched and fell victim to, too much gear being took to the firing line. Then get lost amongst the chaos and managed to time out. Part of becoming a good shooter is gear management, knowing when to pull those reins back and say "Nah this is all I need to take for this stage". No bags etc will take the place of good training, fundamentals, and God given talent. But thats just me.

 

[NovaHunter]

My opinion for what little its worth. Natural skill and ability will win out at the end of the day almost every time. Sure extra gear, bags, etc can aid in shooting positions. But I personally don't think there should be gear restrictions. As long as they aren't full on gaming to the point of cheating or manipulating the stage description beyond reason. As long as its in the realm of the COF for that stage let it go. I personally have watched and fell victim to, too much gear being took to the firing line. Then get lost amongst the chaos and managed to time out. Part of becoming a good shooter is gear management, knowing when to pull those reins back and say "Nah this is all I need to take for this stage". No bags etc will take the place of good training, fundamentals, and God given talent. But thats just me.

I like this perspective. I shot my first PRS match last month. I have 4 bags, two armegeddon, a gamechanger, and a wedge. Didn't ever use the wedge, so that won't be at my next match. I think there were 2 stages I used more than one bag. One of those stages was the up and down using a water barrel then prone. I saw a few shooters using 3 or 4 bags on the stage. One around their arm, 2 on the water barrel, and 1 on the ground. I got my 4 bags ready, thinking that was what I needed to use and trying to figure out the quickest way to set up all the bags after the timer went off. A more experienced shooter saw me getting ready with all this stuff, and asked me how I was approaching the stage. I told him, and he politely suggested another method using just 2 bags. Gamechanger on the barrel on its side to make a tall and stable rest, and small rear bag for prone, and once they are set don't move them. I thought about it and took his advise and it turned out to be one of my better stages. Had I eff'd around with 4 bags I probably would have lost a good bit of time.

Valuable lesson for me and I really appreciated the advise from the other shooter. At home, I am trying to practice the most efficient use of bags. Just because I can use them doesn't mean they should be used on a stage.

As a new PRS shooter I look at things like shooting with bags, shooting in different positions, shooting under time constraints, and shooting accurately as part of the sport and skills that need to be practiced to succeed at the sport. Favoring one, like using 4 bags on a stage when 2 can make do, might make me a more stable shot if I can get all the gear perfectly aligned but if I only have time to get 4 out of 12 shots off then I will fail at the stage. So, I don't think gear needs to be limited. I like the idea of stages designed to try and make a shooter use their gear efficiently.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[_Windrider_]

I'm also kind of a purist, if you can't carry it you shouldn't be able to use it. You shouldn't be able to go to the car and switch out your gear between stages. Part of marksmanship is adapting to your environment and being able to make it work with whatever you have or is around you.

 

[Sierra770]

As stated, gear restrictions likely won't unseat the top ranked shooters or impact the rankings/standings in any meaningfull way. I am not in favor of restrictions on gear.

I would like to see a few more stages with increased physical output on the part of the shooter. Nothing like dragging telephone poles, but something to increase heart rate to add to stress.

 

[Hiker12]

I think it was MM5326 that said have one or two stages with out all the added extra gear but a bipod. Then get back to basic fundamentals like the Marine Corps teaches. All the gear really helps but just my humble opinion basic techniques fundamentals get lost.

 

[Sheldon N]

Time limits are the key to sorting this all out. Let people do whatever they want and the time limit will weed out people messing around with too much equipment.

The top shooters around here are mostly using one bag to rest the rifle on, they move quickly and efficiently and make good shots. Of course I've seen some matches where there is 2:30 or 3:00 for 9 shots. Hell, they'll build a freaking platform out of tripods with bags on top so they can shoot the gun like it's on a bench rest. People want to win and will do what they can to improve hit percentage. Time limits are what keeps that from happening.

On Facebook recently Dave Preston has posted several videos of himself running PRS stages, all of them cleans. Nothing but a simple bag (not a Game Changer) and 90 seconds... it's impressive to watch.

 

[mpk1996]

For all of the guys who want to limit the gear, you would then limit the shooting positions. or your going to have a lot of misses and dangerous gun handling situations. As this sport builds the shooting situations evolve and get harder and harder. and without some of this gear, you would have to "dumb" down the stages if you ask me. if you look at most of the guys running any particular stage, most have only a bag and a bipod or a front bad and rear bag at any stage. what they do is change them out depending on the stage. that's what I do. some stages I need a bigger rear bag because of the angle. others I need a smaller bag. some I take the bipod off and run a bag to the front and a rear bag or sling. very few guys have 5 bags hanging off of them to start a stage. but if you like the matches and like shooting smaller targets out to distance, and actually hitting anything, then this is where it needs to be. If you had all belly stages, guys would only bring a bipod and rear bag. The gear is dictated by the MD in stage design/prop use. so, no need to limit gear or even mention it. you don't want guys to use tripods. have a 90 sec stage with 5 positions and two targets at each. no time for a tripod. or setting up a pile of bags.

As far as cost goes, the bags aren't that expensive. and really you only need a couple. mostly what you see is guys that have bought a bunch to find what they like. they still have everything, but really only use one or two. and I have never said "no" to anyone needing to borrow a piece of gear. I also have never been told no when I wanted to try something that another shooter has. so don't feel that if you don't have it you are SOL. just ask. that's whats great about this series

 

[morganlamprecht]

For all of the guys who want to limit the gear, you would then limit the shooting positions. or your going to have a lot of misses and dangerous gun handling situations. As this sport builds the shooting situations evolve and get harder and harder. and without some of this gear, you would have to "dumb" down the stages if you ask me. if you look at most of the guys running any particular stage, most have only a bag and a bipod or a front bad and rear bag at any stage. what they do is change them out depending on the stage. that's what I do. some stages I need a bigger rear bag because of the angle. others I need a smaller bag. some I take the bipod off and run a bag to the front and a rear bag or sling. very few guys have 5 bags hanging off of them to start a stage. but if you like the matches and like shooting smaller targets out to distance, and actually hitting anything, then this is where it needs to be. If you had all belly stages, guys would only bring a bipod and rear bag. The gear is dictated by the MD in stage design/prop use. so, no need to limit gear or even mention it. you don't want guys to use tripods. have a 90 sec stage with 5 positions and two targets at each. no time for a tripod. or setting up a pile of bags.

As far as cost goes, the bags aren't that expensive. and really you only need a couple. mostly what you see is guys that have bought a bunch to find what they like. they still have everything, but really only use one or two. and I have never said "no" to anyone needing to borrow a piece of gear. I also have never been told no when I wanted to try something that another shooter has. so don't feel that if you don't have it you are SOL. just ask. that's whats great about this series

spot on

 

[Mormegil87]

For all of the guys who want to limit the gear, you would then limit the shooting positions. or your going to have a lot of misses and dangerous gun handling situations. As this sport builds the shooting situations evolve and get harder and harder. and without some of this gear, you would have to "dumb" down the stages if you ask me. if you look at most of the guys running any particular stage, most have only a bag and a bipod or a front bad and rear bag at any stage. what they do is change them out depending on the stage. that's what I do. some stages I need a bigger rear bag because of the angle. others I need a smaller bag. some I take the bipod off and run a bag to the front and a rear bag or sling. very few guys have 5 bags hanging off of them to start a stage. but if you like the matches and like shooting smaller targets out to distance, and actually hitting anything, then this is where it needs to be. If you had all belly stages, guys would only bring a bipod and rear bag. The gear is dictated by the MD in stage design/prop use. so, no need to limit gear or even mention it. you don't want guys to use tripods. have a 90 sec stage with 5 positions and two targets at each. no time for a tripod. or setting up a pile of bags.

As far as cost goes, the bags aren't that expensive. and really you only need a couple. mostly what you see is guys that have bought a bunch to find what they like. they still have everything, but really only use one or two. and I have never said "no" to anyone needing to borrow a piece of gear. I also have never been told no when I wanted to try something that another shooter has. so don't feel that if you don't have it you are SOL. just ask. that's whats great about this series

This is spot on. Use the stages to limit what shooters can use while shooting.

At the SDSC this year there was a truck stage where the shooter had to leave the vehicle and shoot from the hood of the truck. It seems simple enough but there was a 90 second limit with 4 targets that were spread out over a significant area. The guys that did well ran a bipod and a rear bag. The guys that didn't tried using multiple bags and/or tripod set up.

One of the stages at the Border Wars points match in WI was 12 rounds, 4 in each mag, 2 mags staged 10 yards behind the shooter. Shooters had 90 seconds to fire 12 rounds with a mag change every 4 rounds. Having to move to pick up the mags seriously limited the amount of shooters who fired all 12 rounds. I'd say 20%-30% of shooters completed the entire course of fire in 90 seconds. The firing position was from prone, so if movement and a mag change or two was implemented on a barricade stage, I feel that would severely limit the kind of equipment shooters would bring to that stage and still complete the course of fire in the time allowed.

These are just two examples of using stage to effectively limit what gear can be used for that stage while still promoting good marksmanship and the fundamentals required to hit targets at distance.

 

[RampedRaptor]

I agree and wish there was a competition series like the PRS that wasn't so expensive so your average guy (me) could be competitive.

Not only the gear is expensive but I feel match fees are way too expensive (at least for me) and the travel costs associated with the series.

Id love to have matches that might not have the extravagant prize tables or sponsors but were cheaper to attend and limited equipment significantly.

 

[Sheldon N]

I agree and wish there was a competition series like the PRS that wasn't so expensive so your average guy (me) could be competitive.

Not only the gear is expensive but I feel match fees are way too expensive (at least for me) and the travel costs associated with the series.

Id love to have matches that might not have the extravagant prize tables or sponsors but were cheaper to attend and limited equipment significantly.

Have you checked out the PRS Club Series and whether they have any matches in your area? Those are cheaper and may be a better option.

As far as equipment, no need to worry about that. Just don't buy any of the unnecessary stuff. Besides, the expensive part is how much ammo you shoot when you get into the sport.

 

[RampedRaptor]

Have you checked out the PRS Club Series and whether they have any matches in your area? Those are cheaper and may be a better option.

As far as equipment, no need to worry about that. Just don't buy any of the unnecessary stuff. Besides, the expensive part is how much ammo you shoot when you get into the sport.

I haven't but I will now that you mentioned it. I signed up for a match next month at rockcastle that I think may be a club series match but I can't seem to find the information page

 

[slothlacrosse]

I think you should have to haul ALL your gear for the duration of the match. If you want to carry a tripod, bipod, and 3 different bags, go for it. I hope you're getting your PT in before your matches!!!

 

[Mormegil87]

I think you should have to haul ALL your gear for the duration of the match. If you want to carry a tripod, bipod, and 3 different bags, go for it. I hope you're getting your PT in before your matches!!!

It's not like it's being carried that far. Maybe a mile or two tops. Unless you're doing one of the Competition Dynamics matches or the Mammoth Sniper Challenge ect..