PT Improving ruck times

[Lunar95]

As someone who has never rucked for time but have done distance, I'm curious about them. I'm shooting for sub 15 min miles with a 50ish lb ruck.

For yall who do it alot how do you manage your time? Do you run/shuffle for so much distance per mile? Constant shuffle? Are you able to just walk that fast?

My current best is 3.5 miles at about 14min 50 sec split and man did I feel like death. Granted iv only been at it a month.

How do yall skin this cat?

 

[TheHorta]

I drive. Much faster, and I can carry a lot more.

 

[roostercogburn98]

I used to ruck. I used to be taller as well

 

[Bigfatcock]

Fuck that shit.

 

[Eli17L]

As a highly trained 64C I always followed behind the guys rucking in the logestics truck. But that seems fast.

 

[TheGerman]

Pick a weight inside of a good ruck with the proper support.

Learn how to wear the ruck properly as well.

4 miles in 1 hour (15 mins/mile) on Tues/Thursday.

6 miles in 90 minutes (15 mins/mile) on Saturday.

Do not do any more than this.

Focus on getting there on/before time, every time. After you can, then add weight. Drop yourself off somewhere and leave your car. Go 2 miles out onto the path/trail/terrain and NOT in a circle. You want distance out, distance in, knowing that every step you take, you have to take 1 back or you're fucking stuck in the middle of the desert or whatever rather than mentally having the crutch of always being near your car.

After doing it a while, you can de-load to a 'reasonable' amount of weight and then carefully test how much you can effectively and safey run short distances with to where you aren't damaging anything; at that point you can set up a different ruck march or mix it into your week with running .25 of a mile, walk .50, then run .25 again, etc. But be very careful with this.


ETA - Whenever you start clearing your mile times with a set weight, then add another 5lb. Keep doing this until you just cant make time and/or are totally fighting it the entire way with a small de-load here and there.

 

[roostercogburn98]

On a serious note, any reason for the speed? The army standard used to be 12 miles in 3 hours, 6 in 1.5.

 

[Lunar95]

On a serious note, any reason for the speed? The army standard used to be 12 miles in 3 hours, 6 in 1.5.

Mammoth, was going to do it last year but my son decided his due date was first week of January. So doing it next year.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Used to pick landmarks to split walk/shuffle times. Telephone poles used to be a good reference points if you have them. If not, get you a nice watch and set up some lap times on it. Stay within that limit or under. Bigger concern is will you still be mission capable when finished. Walking to a fight is not always the best way, but sometimes can’t be avoided. Are you allowed to separate your load into sub loads, such as your marching load, approach load and fighting load or does it all go to the end with you?

 

[Lunar95]

Pick a weight inside of a good ruck with the proper support.

Learn how to wear the ruck properly as well.

4 miles in 1 hour (15 mins/mile) on Tues/Thursday.

6 miles in 90 minutes (15 mins/mile) on Saturday.

Do not do any more than this.

Focus on getting there on/before time, every time. After you can, then add weight. Drop yourself off somewhere and leave your car. Go 2 miles out onto the path/trail/terrain and NOT in a circle. You want distance out, distance in, knowing that every step you take, you have to take 1 back or you're fucking stuck in the middle of the desert or whatever rather than mentally having the crutch of always being near your car.

After doing it a while, you can de-load to a 'reasonable' amount of weight and then carefully test how much you can effectively and safey run short distances with to where you aren't damaging anything; at that point you can set up a different ruck march or mix it into your week with running .25 of a mile, walk .50, then run .25 again, etc. But be very careful with this.

Solid advice, I currently do walk in basically 3/4 mile circles so I'm sure that has stopped me from doing an extra mile or 2 before. I'll give this a shot thanks!

 

[canman]

50 Lbs. is a lot. Most recorded standards is for 36 Lbs. Not that it's not realistic to be at 50 Lbs. Hell could be more, just not going to be standards at that weight. I do 18 minute miles with 35 Lbs. and I'm damn happy to be doing it.

 

[34SF]

Copy the German. Start with around 30 lbs of SAND properly loaded in the ruck. It shouldn't shift around in the ruck and the ruck shouldn't shift around on your body. Once your speed (flat terrain: jog; varied terrain and vegetation: speed walk) and technique are correct, increase the weight. Use sand for training; if you have to dump the ruck due to injury or emergency, you've lost nothing but being 10 miles out with a ruck full of cool guy shit when the wife calls about the kid is not cool. Don't ruck every day and don't train on the roads if you can help it. The hard surfaces are faster but will wear your knees out. Take care. of your feet and change your socks if they get wet. "Army standards" are for the guys that won't make the cut or get the call.

 

[canman]

Copy the German. Start with around 30 lbs of SAND properly loaded in the ruck. It shouldn't shift around in the ruck and the ruck shouldn't shift around on your body. Once your speed (flat terrain: jog; varied terrain and vegetation: speed walk) and technique are correct, increase the weight. Use sand for training; if you have to dump the ruck due to injury or emergency, you've lost nothing but being 10 miles out with a ruck full of cool guy shit when the wife calls about the kid is not cool. Don't ruck every day and don't train on the roads if you can help it. The hard surfaces are faster but will wear your knees out. Take care. of your feet and change your socks if they get wet. "Army standards" are for the guys that won't make the cut or get the call.

+1 Good boots too.

 

[BJames]

What 34SF said, + TheGerman. Not mil, but a sheep hunter in AK. Training is about the same except climbs thrown in. My experience, be really careful with pack weight, real easy to hurt something adding too much weight too quickly. Especially on hard surfaces. My only difference is instead of sand, use water. Easier to add weight in smaller containers (8lbs a gallon), hydrate, then dump.

 

[Randalls]

I personally find it hard to hit the 4+ mph mark consistently. I average about 3.7mph depending on terrain and pack weight (low 40’s to high 60’s). This is at a mostly constant pace.

I read Mike Prevost’s ruck training program and used that to form my own training plan. I originally shot for that magic 4mph (and do hit it) but just 1/4 mph slower is much easier on my body. And since I’m training for hunting and not military or competition, I became happy with the slower but more efficient and less tiring pace.

And the thing is, if I do need to move a little bit faster, I can, it’s just slightly more effort.

I wouldn’t run with a ruck unless I needed to. If you anticipate needing to, as stated before, be very careful, you have a much higher chance of injury.

Mike Prevost: Ruck Training Programs - PART 1 - On Target Publications

Interested in the potential offered by ruck training? Because of its history as a means of military conveyance, there’s plenty of information out there on rucking. Mike Prevost sorts through it with you to help get you started.

www.otpbooks.com

Mike Prevost: Ruck Training Programs - PART 2 - On Target Publications

Interested in the potential offered by ruck training? In Part One, Mike Prevost covered the research. Here he puts it all together in two programs to get you rucking.

www.otpbooks.com

 

[Maggot]

+1 Good boots too.

I wouldn’t run with a ruck unless I needed to. If you anticipate needing to, as stated before, be very careful, you have a much higher chance of injury.

-Good boots are a real plus. I dont train much anymore but used to wear my Redwing high top work boots. Made it more difficult but thatw what you want.

-And remember this. Al those injuries you ignore or bounce back from really quickly when your young, will haunt you when your old. Ask me how I know. Like putting a 92# bag of Portland cement on each shoulder and seeing who could get up the hill fastest. Now the knees, hips, back remember .Fuck that shit, Train smart, I went for endurance over strength, though you need most.

 

[myronman3]

it's been a lot of years since i did it, but it is all about pace. in my experience, speeding up and slowing down is counter productive. i used to hate the stop at the 6 mile mark and much would have rather skipped that and done the full 12 without stopping. and that is all after running 4-6 miles for PT an hour or two earlier.

while training up for a ranger school slot, my unit made me train with a battalion ranger that was very accomplished. his words were "train for what you are going to do. you want to do 82 pushups? then practice doing 82 pushups. "body by Jake" doesnt get you to being able to do 82 pushups." (in reference to doing multiple sets of 50 to muscle failure instead)

myself, if i wanted to gun for 82, i'd train for higher. i used to carry a heavy load while rucking, along with being an m249 gunner. it worked great.....then. these days, my knees and back tell me otherwise. and every single one of my buddies is the same.

if you are trying to pound out 12 miles in under three hours, gun for 13 in under 3 hours. but be very mindful of what you are doing to yourself....older you will thank younger you.

 

[Maggot]

it's been a lot of years since i did it, but it is all about pace. in my experience, speeding up and slowing down is counter productive. i used to hate the stop at the 6 mile mark and much would have rather skipped that and done the full 12 without stopping. and that is all after running 4-6 miles for PT an hour or two earlier.

while training up for a ranger school slot, my unit made me train with a battalion ranger that was very accomplished. his words were "train for what you are going to do. you want to do 82 pushups? then practice doing 82 pushups. "body by Jake" doesnt get you to being able to do 82 pushups." (in reference to doing multiple sets of 50 to muscle failure instead)

myself, if i wanted to gun for 82, i'd train for higher. i used to carry a heavy load while rucking, along with being an m249 gunner. it worked great.....then. these days, my knees and back tell me otherwise. and every single one of my buddies is the same.

if you are trying to pound out 12 miles in under three hours, gun for 13 in under 3 hours. but be very mindful of what you are doing to yourself....older you will thank younger you.

Same as I said above. There are times when yo throw all caution to the wind but training shouldnt be one of them. Be smart, youll thanks us later.

 

[wyld3man]

Not sure if you are trying to meet that time/ weight for a military event or school but if you are remember water is not included in your weight. I would drink a lot of water on 12 milers and it added up fast, but I drank it and what I didn't got dumped the last couple miles.

As some said work out a technique for the walk to jog ratio and keep it consistent. I would walk up hills, run down them then walk flats for a 3-4 min and jog for 2. I would always come in at about the 2 1/2 hour mark using that method.

Running upstairs with a weighted vest and pulling sleds with weight when you are not rucking will also help.

 

[D1gger]

If you are training for Mammoth, it might be a good idea to post a similar question in the Competition forum. Sean Murphy will probably check in.
For me, I've done a few ruck matches, but they were the Vortex matches with a 18 min/mile par time. At 50, I can't hit the 4mph pace with 40-50lbs on my back. 3.7 seems to be my comfort zone. I also use trekking poles, even on flat ground. They help me with my pace, almost like a metronome.
For shoes, check out Altra. They have a generous toe box and are now my go-to for these types of things. If you don't already have some type of smartwatch that can track your pace-get one.

 

[E. Bryant]

I strongly recommend an effective heart rate monitor during this type of training (wrist-based devices are OK, but a chest strap is better). This allows one to track in which "zone" they are working.

Most of your work (80% of your workouts and 90% of your total time) should be focused on so-called "zone 2". This is relatively low effort - no more than 75-80% of maximum heart rate - but builds the cardio base and improves metabolic efficiency in the oxidative mode; i.e. "fat burning". Staying in this zone can be surprisingly difficult on foot, particularly when rucking over hilly terrain.

Approximately one workout a week should send you deep into zone 5/6 with some sort of intervals (the exact structure of which is largely unimportant); this will help improve your steady-state aerobic output but is relatively stressful and so we administer a relatively low dose of this work. If you've got the right sort of terrain, this is pretty damn easy - go hard uphill, recover going down, repeat for about an hour.

Without monitoring exertion, and in pursuit of only a pace goal, most people will find themselves working too hard to build a base but not hard enough to actually improve. You can get away with this for a while, but it'll eventually catch up and generate "non-functional overreach"; i.e. unproductive over-training.

 

[Naaman]

A couple of things that helped me to get an 11.x min/mile (45-ish pound ruck) over short distances (like, 2 miles... lol) was to be mindful of my turnover (step frequency). Similar to training for running. If I linked the step count to some other rhythm (such as my breathing), I could zone out mentally and not get "bored."

Any idea what your "unloaded" walk time is? This could be a way to gauge what a realistic first goal is to set when you throw on your ruck.

And just accept the fact that there will be PAIN after while on each march. How you pack your pack, wear your pack, and which pack you use can reduce this or exacerbate it. For me, with the standard issue MOLLE, it was always in the upper back between the shoulders. On the rare times I did it with the ALICE pack, it was worse (maybe my fault, not sure).

 

[mgrs]

Some decent advice here.

Couple things I would add after training to 16 miles/4 hours/65lbs for a while:
-15 minute miles at that load can be tough to maintain without running depending on your stride
-running beats on your knees, trying to stride it out at that pace plays havoc with your hips… I found that run/walk was much easier on my body than trying to maintain a <15min per mile pure walking pace at weight
-if you’re on trails, don’t overload your feet with heavy boots. Salomon is or altra over-ankle work great
-if you’re using an alice pack, buy extra frames. Better yet, don’t use an alice

 

[MK20]

I could run a 3 mile in 23:30 minutes with a 40 lb load. I also could hold a 13 minute mile pace with 70 lbs and rifle without running.

First of all, unless you are sprinting for combat purposes, running is a crutch and best to stay away from if you can.

Training weight for you is 40 lbs. That never changes except for short periods to acclimatize your body to the heavier weight. We found that if you can ruck with 40 you can ruck with 80 it will just hurt more. It is mental and not physical.

I shrunk an inch my first year in the military, so think about what you want.

 

[BCP]

Like putting a 92# bag of Portland cement on each shoulder and seeing who could get up the hill fastest. Now the knees, hips, back remember .Fuck that shit, Train smart, I went for endurance over strength, though you need most.

I'm not even 40 and my lower back is already destroyed from framing houses. Plus all the other injuries like the time I nailed my feet to the floor. No idea how you 65+year old guys get out of bed in the morning.

 

[Maggot]

I'm not even 40 and my lower back is already destroyed from framing houses. Plus all the other injuries like the time I nailed my feet to the floor. No idea how you 65+year old guys get out of bed in the morning.

72 here, and honestly, the physical part of getting out of bed is not a problem. Keeping fit emotionally and spiritually fit and interested in things is tougher. YMMV

 

[myronman3]

I'm not even 40 and my lower back is already destroyed from framing houses. Plus all the other injuries like the time I nailed my feet to the floor. No idea how you 65+year old guys get out of bed in the morning.

72 here, and honestly, the physical part of getting out of bed is not a problem. Keeping fit emotionally and spiritually fit and interested in things is tougher. YMMV

i am a few months from 50. i pushed my body HARD when i was younger....sleep depravation, physical training, heavy workloads, etc. rare is the day i don't feel the repercussions from my previous years of abuse. i dont know how guys like Pat Mcnamara do it; but thank God they can.

my point is be very mindful of how hard and far you push it. as some have said, get excellent footwear, that helps some. rucking will fuck you up like few other things will. it is one of the top 3 things that i did back then that causes me pain almost every day now.

i do wonder how much it would have helped to have good footwear. back in the day, it was issue only on uniforms. so you either used jungle boots or issue leather. one of the few things we were allowed to do, was spend our cash and have our boots re-soled. there were two options available, vibriam soft soles and another zig-zag pattern that was good in loose sand. the vibriam soft were the best available on hard packed/pavement type. these days, there are tons of options....find a good one and use it.

as a side note, it just occured to me that if younger me would hear older me saying ^that, younger me would laugh and call me a pussy and an old man. probably would have said something like "just roll over and go die somewhere".

have fun with it, just take care of yourself as much as you can.

 

[502Chevelle]

I’m 60 and am having to pay back for my younger self. I was pissed at my performance in a big 3g match last weekend. My wife tells me my expectations are too high. I just can’t understand why I can’t keep up with the two team guys and the two sf guys who were on my squad.

 

[Matches Malone]

OP must be a civ. I don’t think I’ve ever not been on a timed ruck run.

I won’t repeat some of the advice given already, but keep in mind, even though the best way to get better a rucking is rucking, being in better shape over all helps as well. It would actually be the technical starting point.

It’s important not just adding weight but also going up and down hill. You can imagine it’s good to already have some developed cardio, and having muscle development from compound movements will help prevent injury. Only those east coast fags got to “march” on flat ground. Lol

 

[Badjujuu]

Start with lighter loads, build it up. Brake in some great boots, use proper socks (or use sock and sock liner / dress sock). Chafe stick on foot areas that develop hot spots
Distribute the load properly, walk up hills, shuffle down hills. Walk and shuffle flat distances if you're not meeting time hacks. Pick a decent ruck with padded shoulder strap and padded waist belt.

I have a mystery ranch frame which i attach weight plates to - usually go with anywhere from 35-45# plus water with majority of weight sitting on my waist.

15 minutes pace with 50# would be little bit of a smoker.

 

[8up]

I dont know what is worse, moving or doing ruck marches. I have not done ruck marches in years. One thing I did do to help ease some of the pain back then, well it was painful to do, but made it easier on the longer ruck marches, was 35 lbs ruck and do 5 miles in 1 hour.

No running, and that pace you are just right at that speed of wanting to run. If you are doing 3 marches a week, do 1 of these on those days for a light day. It will get your heart rate up, and make you uncomfortable.

 

[myronman3]

It’s important not just adding weight but also going up and down hill

uphill and downhill....i always found that downhill was harder on the joints. i would hammer going up, and ease off coming down. even back then, my knees could feel the shock when going full speed downhill.

 

[MK20]

I remember running 3K to make my land nav time. I only had 110 lbs on. There goes that inch, lol.

 

[Naaman]

as a side note, it just occured to me that if younger me would hear older me saying ^that, younger me would laugh and call me a pussy and an old man. probably would have said something like "just roll over and go die somewhere".

have fun with it, just take care of yourself as much as you can.

Same. This kind of thing crosses my mind all the time!

 

[myronman3]

i think the worst was the load on the harness and the walk from greenramp, across the tarmac to the planes.

they were doing a study once, they weighed each of us with just the uniform on. then they had us gear up, ammo, lbe, ruck, weapon system, parachutes, the whole enchilada. at the time, i was 145 pounds. with the full load, i was around 425. the penguin walk was brutal; especially with that riser release grinding into the collarbone and the alice frame grinding your shins.

reached the top of the ramp once, felt immense pressure on my collar bone and POOF! i went black. next thing i know, the jumpmaster (1sgt Phillips) had me by the chinstraps and was asking me if i was alright....he helped me up, and packed me in. i can still feel that damn metal buckle on my collar bone when i think about it.

i REALLY felt bad for the 11C. that fucking tube, and the base plate, PLUS their other weapons. and the RTO's. but then again, that saw and 6 full drums of ammo were not real light either.

 

[MK20]

We were jumping 110 lbs combat loads minus the chute and reserve and harness, radios, weapon, etc.
When I weighed 195 and then you add that on top you come down pretty quick.

 

[myronman3]

it all adds up quick. it isnt any wonder my back and knees hate me.