PX Bullshit, Everyone is selling for themselves

[Lowlight]

Nothing but posts in the PX,

Stock Photos,

multiple (unused) copies of the same thing for sale

Oh, I have an FFL but I am not a business

The excuses are stacking up

I am really considering putting a limit on the PX with all the crap. Guys are taking advantage of the situation (granted my doing) and then racking up 100s of posts in just the PX and claiming, it's all their stuff.

Oh, I work for someone else, it's not mine, it's their stuff, I don't have anything, sure selling for others is against the rules, but that is not my problem.

So the question becomes do I start charging EVERYONE to post in order to make up for the few who are abusing the place.

I let a lot go, I don't force anything on people, but now its just a case of complete Bullshit.

Guys just want to use the site for sales, and I get it, it drives X amount of traffic, but really, you're abusing the fuck out of the place.

Gonna really think about limiting the amount of "SALES" one can have in the PX. We are already doing more work, more bitches the product was not as described, we have to moderate something we said we are not moderating, we have to get in the middle of BS he said, she said, arguments over $10s, it is lame. So way to ruin a good thing.

 

[diverdon]

I have already posted that I will not buy anything from anyone whose only posts are to help them sell something. If I see something I might like if I am not already familiar with them I review posting history. I'll only buy from people if it sounds like the kind of people I might enjoy meeting at a range someday. Just here to sell yer crap---fo.

 

[Diver160651]

It is really not as trustworthy as it used to be.. Mostly through my own doing I was burned out of a $100 bucks.. I use it quite a bit, both buying and selling... but I get you need to do what you need to do..

I liked that you used to have to live through 100 posts, hell it should be 200 or more. When the Hide was a bit more brutal, it seemed like a litmus test of sorts.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

I wish I made half as much on the PX as I've spent. Lol

 

[Lowlight]

It's not cool at all

I agree it needs to change, maybe it's going back to just posts and not letting people buy in, or raising the buy-in cost to a much higher price so it weeds out the Bullshit

But the fact I have guys with over 200+ posts in just the PX is stupid, all they are doing is selling and bumping their shit nobody wants

 

[ShooterwithNoName]

I appreciate you providing us with the PX. I rarely sell anything and buy every once in a while. But I have noticed a lot of ads where I've seen exactly what you mentioned.

If your legit, restricting the PX shouldn't affect you at all. I'm down with whatever restrictions necessary because I do enjoy having it and getting great deals from it from time to time.

 

[KZP]

If you want to be real brutal, set a minimum number of likes someones account must have before selling. Spamming nonsense wouldn't help much and it would be a more realistic measure of contribution to the forum.

( I cheated and paid for posts to sell stuff )

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

I think a lot of members do not realize the negative effect that commercial members "posing" as individuals has on the forum.
And those "posing" as individuals but are commercial have no care for the forum to begin with. They do not interact in any subsection except in the PX.
We all remember back in the day when there were just company rep after company rep here on the forum.
The commercial members posing as individuals has a direct effect on having company reps here and is basically stealing from LL.
I am of the belief that we would have more commercial reps here IF the PX was not overrun with members abusing it.
Sorry I cannot help with solution but legit members are surely not going to have a problem with whatever you come up with.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Lowlight]

They are gonna force me to be a dick, that is very clear

How much of a dick is the question

 

[Diver160651]

It's not cool at all

I agree it needs to change, maybe it's going back to just posts and not letting people buy in, or raising the buy-in cost to a much higher price so it weeds out the Bullshit

But the fact I have guys with over 200+ posts in just the PX is stupid, all they are doing is selling and bumping their shit nobody wants

That must be me I bumped my binos with reticle about 900 x s.. Crap I really can't believe nobody wants em..

I digress.. really ya, certainly they should pay more $25 is just way to cheap. + KZP came up with a great idea if your software can auto filter by likes.

 

[Inifinty]

Maybe base access on a higher number of initial posts but that number can decrement exponentially for posts with content that multiple people give a thumbs up to?

 

[hic28]

$500 non refundable or 500 posts of substance or you can go fuck yourself. Sounds good to me.

 

[AIAW]

Even likes can be fabricated though. Some guy has a main account, VPN and a second account - he can just "like" himself all day long.

Just thinking out loud, just my thought... perhaps the PX should be a sub-domain (separate site) that provides the separation. Perhaps even running a different software package.

Probably a PITA though.

 

[Veer_G]

Hi,

I think a lot of members do not realize the negative effect that commercial members "posing" as individuals has on the forum.
And those "posing" as individuals but are commercial have no care for the forum to begin with. They do not interact in any subsection except in the PX.
We all remember back in the day when there were just company rep after company rep here on the forum.
The commercial members posing as individuals has a direct effect on having company reps here and is basically stealing from LL.
I am of the belief that we would have more commercial reps here IF the PX was not overrun with members abusing it.
Sorry I cannot help with solution but legit members are surely not going to have a problem with whatever you come up with.

Sincerely,
Theis

Years ago I was invited to a fraternal organization's luncheon as a prospective member. It was at a nice, but not elegant county seat restaurant a block from the courthouse, the kind of place where expense account lunches and dinners were regularly consumed, bearing placards advertising their affiliation with various groups. I was there for about twenty minutes, and it struck me like a lightning bolt that half of those in attendance were members, real members, and the other half were voracious leech insurance and annuities salesmen tending their flock of pigeons. Kind of sickening, actually, and it reminds me of that which you describe. I'd hate to lose the PX, but every boat has to undergo a periodic scrubbing to ditch the barnacles, so to speak.

 

[Diver160651]

Even likes can be fabricated though. Some guy has a main account, VPN and a second account - he can just "like" himself all day long.

Just thinking out loud, just my thought... perhaps the PX should be a sub-domain (separate site) that provides the separation. Perhaps even running a different software package.

Probably a PITA though.

holly shit, I don't want you on my bad side

 

[Inifinty]

Even likes can be fabricated though. Some guy has a main account, VPN and a second account - he can just "like" himself all day long.

Just thinking out loud, just my thought... perhaps the PX should be a sub-domain (separate site) that provides the separation. Perhaps even running a different software package.

Probably a PITA though.

Only multiple likes by established members when earned on individual posts. The measure for established members could be anything arbitrary (seargent and above etc..). But yeah that may be tricky given software capabikities.

Didn’t mean to stomp your thunder KZP. I’m a slow typer and didn’t see your post!

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Well, if I can throw in a few cents... I have bought a ton of stuff in the Reloading PX... always from 'members' and doesn't seem like the dealers hang there. Or maybe they do and I'm not astute enough to see it.

But nothing but good stuff there. Lots of happy transactions from great folks.

Only bought a few optics... always from good people. And I don't think any firearms here. Don't hang much in that section.

But the PX has been nothing but good people from my experience. And would be a shame if it turned FUBAR and if LL shut it down.

Limiting it to 'just dudes' may help. Banning 'bumping' may help?

Sorry it's turning into a PITA for you LL. But I can tell you that I have bought a boatload of components, dies, presses, etc. And made friends in the process. There is a value in a PX. Maybe just not in a gunnish 'Craigs List" where every clamhammer can come and turn it into their little Classified.

Bottom line... we trust your judgement. Do what you need to do! PX is a bonus... icing on the cake. Not the reason we come here.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[Waorani]

I appreciate the PX and the effort it takes to have it. I'd hate to see it go. I've bought a lot of stuff w/o issue and sold some stuff, also w/o issue. If something doesn't sell after a couple of bumps, I figure no one wants it and don't continue to bump for weeks/months. I enjoy the PX and hope it survives.

 

[J McGriddle]

Maybe limit PX posts to 15 or 30 a month. That way you limit excessive bumping and guys that are on there trying to unload a ton of gear every month.

 

[1J04]

Bottom line is, if your sole purpose here is to buy n sell shit GTFO. Really. Go somewhere else, or have "someone" help you go somewhere else. "WE" enjoy a large tight knit group as we all know. Things have changed in the PX. It's sketchy as fuck. @Lowlight, WE know you and @Tucker301 have been overwhelmed with this bullshit for to long now. To the point it's becoming a daily fucking farce and drain on all ya. I'd hate to see the good folks take a hit in regards to new policy, but I wouldn't give 2 shit's if the people putting themselves on the map get WHACKED. It is outta control and and those fucktards are jacking it up for ALL OF US.

Thx for thinking out loud and giving us a chance to chime in. Now break out that Hammer.

 

[Blue Sky Country]

One way the excessive bumping and wasteful posts can be dealt with is simply by limiting each seller to one post ONLY. On TFL's black powder buy/sell sub board, that was how it was done.

Your ad, and your photos if you are using photos, all go into that one initial post. If let's say tomorrow, your item is still not sold and you want to add a few more photos, change prices or whatever...Use the EDIT function to go back into your initial post and change it there. We got an edit function here too.

One post from each seller in his thread. Prospective buyers can reply and seller can also reply back, but if the thread is not getting any activity, the seller cannot bump it up with followup posts. That way, everybody gets an equal chance on the board and we are not dealing with a Times Square-like traffic situation.

And once the item has been sold, the seller makes an edit to his OP: "Update: Item Sold". Then the mods lock that thread. If the seller wants to put other items on the board, he starts over again from above, following the same regs.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Charge per ad placed (Single Item only per ad) by non commercial account and then charge every time they bump it while not allowing anyone else to bump it for them.
If item has not sold in 2 weeks the ad expires and they either take their shit to armslist or pay again to place it here.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[AIAW]

Only multiple likes by established members when earned on individual posts. The measure for established members could be anything arbitrary (seargent and above etc..). But yeah that may be tricky given software capabikities.

Didn’t mean to stomp your thunder KZP. I’m a slow typer and didn’t see your post!

I hear you, but I'm pretty sure the forum software isn't going to be able to handle something like that unless there is a specific plugin or such.

A dedicated sub-domain, let's say "px.snipershide.com" would do the following (for starters):


A) Dedicated place for sales, purely subscription-based. Access granted on a per-user basis. Usernames must match "forum.snipershide.com" usernames.

B) Keeps the traffic that is solely "sales" traffic to that domain. Doesn't co-mingle "uninterested" people with the "interested". Another words, people who want to learn versus the people who just want to sell/purchase.

C) Would allow dedicated "software" to handle sales better than a threaded forum format.


Not sure if the diverted traffic would be detrimental to @Lowlight with advertising though. Depends how many hits are purely from "PX only" users.

Again, just thinking out loud.

 

[QuickNDirty]

Likes, posts, ratings... all can be fabricated.

It's hard to fabricate being a participating member for 6+ months.

ETA: This can further be enhanced by having "by invite only" access.

 

[MtnCreek]

MHO, the px benefits the everyday user here. I've got all kinds of great deals on things I would never try to purchase from other places. Please remember it's more than the sellers benefiting from the px.

 

[powdahound76]

Huge PITA to do that.

I am not real smart and I remember many times Frank saying he would rather end the PX than deal with a lot of BS.
He is already it appears.

Im just pissed people abuse it because I find great deals and sell my goods pretty easily on here.
Never had a deal go bad.

I appreciate the 100 post rule. I also think Mod discretion to reset post counts for the fools who aim to get to 100 in a hurry just to use the PX. We have all seen those guys.

Does a 6 months on the boards AND 100 posts sound too crazy? And guys posting a ton of crap need to use gunbroker.
And ban em for a certain time for posting gunbroker ads.

And new guys padding posts used to get called out all the time.
Redmanss just called out some fool, new member, posting a “question” that was a thinly veiled FS ad.
Disappeared faster than 1J04 can inflate his lady friend.

Sorry Frank. Have a cocktail, its Friday, and let us help you be a dick! ?

 

[264win]

It is annoying to see guys with 40-50 items for sale constantly bumping them up and flooding the px with “ their” stuff.
I will happily pay a few bucks more to buy from a member that has been around a while.

It would be great if there was a way to weed out the people abusing the system, but how to do it without hurting the bottom line for LL is a tough question.

 

[Desert Raven]

I’m new here and have a ton of respect for many on the Hide. I viewed anonymously for a year or so before joining, simply to understand the mentality and culture here. Learned a TON, too, as I am new to rifles (hunted and shot trap for over 40 years previous to discovering the joy of shooting rifles here in the desert). Suffice it to say, I didn’t join for the PX, though it’s nice for many here and I see its value.

All of that to say, thanks to Frank for providing an awesome site for newbies to learn from great people. It’s my go-to place on the internet and without question, it accelerated my learning exponentially. Sorry to hear this has been a PITA for you.

 

[_Windrider_]

How about you purge the PX every Sunday at 0000 Zulu. Serious sellers will take the time to post up serious sale items. No bumping. No stock pictures and no external links except from your approved vendors. Violators will have their access restricted once and banned permanently if it happens again.

Redo the feedback section. Find a wicked smart coder to create a piece of software that shows every members sale history thumbs up and thumbs down in a thread that is uneditable by anyone but mods and you.

In addition, people who say tag for later need to just stop. Use the watch function.

LL, it’s your house, do whatever you feel is necessary and appropriate. Be a dick if you have to.

 

[Sheldon N]

I use the PX sometimes and find it valuable. I also have participated in FS forums in other sites both paid and free. My 0.02 to make it less hassle, better experience and worth your time.

Pay to play. $20/year for membership for everyone who wants to post (non-commercial). Higher fee for businesses. Weeds out scammers to some degree since there's a payment paper trail. Totally worth it for those of us who want to sell something. Decent revenue stream for you.

Limit bumps to once every 3rd day. No double posts or delete/repost. User reported to the mods if someone sees a violation. First offense post deleted and one week ban. 2nd offense one month. Third strike you're out. Makes the forum MUCH nicer for those who browse since they see more new stuff and less bumped stuff.

 

[Lowlight]

I am sort of limited by the software, and I just don't have enough history with this software to know how I can manipulate it.

I can see about going to the guys how have done the custom skins for me and maybe find a company that excels in this software, but honestly, I am not completely sure.

Certain plugins and additions are a big time drain on the system and don't work right. Part of the problem with the old software was capability issues as most of this stuff is 3rd party. If that 3rd party stops supporting the plugin, the whole thing starts crashing and you end up chasing your tail.

I did bump the cost to $33, that seems to be a nice bridge between "yes and no" but perhaps it's not enough, and I need to limit it even further. The abuse is just too substantial to ignore

I totally like the idea of not allowing people to BUMP their posts, that is out of control, we have a 24-hour rule, which is routinely ignored. But every new idea brings on a new set of problems for the mods. I dont want them doing more, I want to automate as much as possible. I really feel they should do as little as possible and not have to Babysit the place. That is fucking stupid.

I may have to do, a $1 a post so buying a 101 posts costs you $100. That would definitely limit it as a lot of people are buying in.

 

[1J04]

Likes, posts, ratings... all can be fabricated.

It's hard to fabricate being a participating member for 6+ months.

ETA: This can further be enhanced by having "by invite only" access.

I like this a lot. But I like a Year even more. That along with some other stipulations would weed this shit out over night. BAM!

 

[Redmanss]

One FS per month sounds fair to me, single item or package rifle only.

 

[KZP]

I am sort of limited by the software, and I just don't have enough history with this software to know how I can manipulate it.

I can see about going to the guys how have done the custom skins for me and maybe find a company that excels in this software, but honestly, I am not completely sure.

Certain plugins and additions are a big time drain on the system and don't work right. Part of the problem with the old software was capability issues as most of this stuff is 3rd party. If that 3rd party stops supporting the plugin, the whole thing starts crashing and you end up chasing your tail.

I did bump the cost to $33, that seems to be a nice bridge between "yes and no" but perhaps it's not enough, and I need to limit it even further. The abuse is just too substantial to ignore

I totally like the idea of not allowing people to BUMP their posts, that is out of control, we have a 24-hour rule, which is routinely ignored. But every new idea brings on a new set of problems for the mods. I dont want them doing more, I want to automate as much as possible. I really feel they should do as little as possible and not have to Babysit the place. That is fucking stupid.

I may have to do, a $1 a post so buying a 101 posts costs you $100. That would definitely limit it as a lot of people are buying in.

I bought in when it was $25 and would have paid $100. The visible eyes that come here for firearms equipment is incredibly valuable. I could easily lose over $100 in fees for selling a mid range scope on eBay (actually have lost more than that to fees).

I've sold quite a bit on here and am very thankful for the community you have built that provides the draw for people looking to purchase these types of things. I don't think charging more than $33 would be obscene.

 

[FS1]

Who are the buyers? If it's us then we are part of the problem. Don't buy from them no matter how good the deal. They only come because it's working.

 

[Lowlight]

It does drive traffic, so you can’t ignore that fact, it helped in the recovery from scout.

But that is over, we are well past recovered from scout, so I can put some limits in place and definitely plan on it.

This software is just different enough that you also don’t want to risk capability issues because it runs really well.

 

[AIAW]

They are gonna force me to be a dick, that is very clear

How much of a dick is the question

Had to. We are just all up in the Marvel stuff today here in the Pit.

 

[GatorMD97]

I’ve bought and sold many items in the PX and I’ve been off the board and not shooting for a bit over a year. Heading back to the range for the first time tomorrow. I gotta say I hate the thought of people ripping each other off but I know it would piss me off too if I get shut out of buying and selling because of all the BS. I was an active member during the Scout era and not before so I guess if it changes I’m just SOL and I just burned another 30 some odd dollars to pay to post my one item for sale ??‍. This world is going to sh*t because everybody is seemingly just out for themselves and nobody looks after their brother anymore. Goddamn liberals ruin everything ? too!

 

[FatBoy]

One FS per month sounds fair to me, single item or package rifle only.

I don't sell shit, but I have bought optics and rings from individuals and sponsors. Each was pretty clear, as you can look at their activity and see their posts.

I like the idea of limiting individual sellers to a couple WTS per month. Dealers post in the sponsored section, period, or they're invited to leave.

As to post count, it took me 16 year hit hit 1000. There are a lot of old timers here who don't post much.

 

[kengel2]

Just move the obvious commercial screen names to the commercial sales subforum and charge the commercial guys a sponsor fee.

Sure some will slip through, but theyll get bit eventually.

 

[THEIS]

Just move the obvious commercial screen names to the commercial sales subforum and charge the commercial guys a sponsor fee.

Sure some will slip through, but theyll get bit eventually.

Hi,

It is not the commercial guys that are the problem. They already pay an annual fee.
It is the commercial guy registering and posing as an individual that is the problem.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[AIAW]

Just move the obvious commercial screen names to the commercial sales subforum and charge the commercial guys a sponsor fee.

Sure some will slip through, but theyll get bit eventually.

That's a good idea but they already do that. I'm pretty sure the commercial guys accounts aren't the problem Frank is referring to.

 

[brianf]

One idea, the mods around here seem to do a decent job of posting on several posts a day (or give several "knowledgeable" users a status capable of "voting".

Through the weeks/months the mods/designee can give a thumbs up or down behind the scenes to user names.

No thumbs up no sale/PX...if you've been here for a while and the mods have bumped into a good/bad/stupid (but not retarded post/reply just to get numbers up) they give you the thumbs up. You now have the ability to PX.

If they think it's just posting to sale they never get a thumbs up...if they don't like it...to bad your prob a troll...and if not your on the site for info anyway and you'll wait your turn.

Make the trolls and users understand that you have to wait inline. The ones that do are the real deal.

As long as it doesn't kill traffic which may reduce revenue it's a win win for all involved.

 

[Dewey7271]

I’d have to think a membership time as 1J said. That would limit the quick hits.
Perhaps a limit on number of sales, 5 or so, at which point you need to be considered commercial and ante up. You’re going to sell a bunch of stuff, pay something for the privilege. The PX is a privilege and if it’s going to be utilized on a semi-commercial basis then you should expect to pay something.

 

[Veer_G]

All of this talk, and nobody is thinking about the ramifications to our traditions. What will ever happen to the hundreds of posts stating nothing but "nice rifle"?

 

[Tnc]

I’ve bought and sold many a time in the Px here. Charge them a couple hundred to sell or burn it all down. Do what you need to. I don’t come here for the Px. Like someone above said, icing on the cake.

 

[V-Ref]

A by name shit list (actual name) of folks who've abused the PX with deals gone bad as determined by the Moderator, that 99% of the good guys could check prior to pushing funds on a deal would go a long way to protecting the good, and as a barrier to the bad.

Not suggesting this is the only initiave, but a supporting one of other efforts too.

Maybe a disclaimer that by participating in the Classifieds your giving consent to have your actual name be published on a shit list if you execute a bad deal.

 

[468shot]

There's no perfect solution and people will find a way around anything. Maybe charge x amount to start a thread in the PX and x amount every time you post in the thread you started.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Being here to sell only should warrant a ban.

 

[Spicerack]

Good evening,

Been a member here for a minute, not like some of you guys though that have been around forever. Don't post much but follow the news and use this forum as a mental break from the day to day and read almost daily. I look forward to the end of the day when I can peruse the PX and have bought and sold a handful of things: piddly stuff, most under $100. But it has saved me much and sure my sells have saved the buyers. I make sure I buy either from long time members or members that I know have contributed. Mostly to save my own a$$ but also to not support the quick hitters that just show up to make a buck. Not sure what I would do if there were a buy-in to use the PX as I don't do much business and it wouldn't be worth it to a guy who is just a hobbyist on a strict budget in this sport. But the one 'WTS' per month seems like it would be fine to me. However, it wouldn't keep out the 'drive by sellers'. Conflicted I am here, since I want to see the PX continue but absolutely understand the need for some type of control to protect the users.

I don't envy your position, Frank. Good luck, and know us lurkers support your decision.

Semper Fidelis,
Aaron