Question about.22lr competition build

[stevieb92]

I'm a little late to the party on this one, but here's a pic of my Rim-X with a Proof 24 inch Comp contour in my Matrix Pro. It balances well with a couple internal weights and 2 steel Gray Ops external weights. I'm going to pick up the MPA buttstock weight reduction kit and see if I can pull out some weight from the front. The Matrix Pro 2 chassis should balance easier.

 

[Mark_Dorman]

I'm a little late to the party on this one, but here's a pic of my Rim-X with a Proof 24 inch Comp contour in my Matrix Pro. It balances well with a couple internal weights and 2 steel Gray Ops external weights. I'm going to pick up the MPA buttstock weight reduction kit and see if I can pull out some weight from the front. The Matrix Pro 2 chassis should balance easier.


View attachment 8373133

And that's with a boat anchor of a scope! With the tuner I'm guessing you're at about 7lbs for the barrel which isn't too far off in weight from a 24in 1.20 straight. Great looking setup and good info.

 

[mberlin74]

Thanks for the info. Sounds like maybe the Krieger is the better way to go.

 

[mberlin74]

I'm a little late to the party on this one, but here's a pic of my Rim-X with a Proof 24 inch Comp contour in my Matrix Pro. It balances well with a couple internal weights and 2 steel Gray Ops external weights. I'm going to pick up the MPA buttstock weight reduction kit and see if I can pull out some weight from the front. The Matrix Pro 2 chassis should balance easier.


View attachment 8373133

what a beauty! Very nice.

 

[Rob01]

Matrix Pro II with Vudoo 360 right bolt left port and a 25”x 1.25” straight shank 13 twist Mullerworks with tuner, showing balance point, note without a bipod yet.
40 moa rail and a 20.6 moa base, 33.8 mils of vertical adjustment and then onto holdovers.View attachment 8373587
Built by DI Precision

JH
osoh

Standard weight butt right? Not the light weight comp?

 

[oneshot.onehit]

Standard weight butt right? Not the light weight comp?

Correct

 

[oneshot.onehit]

Standard weight butt right? Not the light weight comp?

The light weight comp version gets rid of the thumb wheels and replaces the bag rider and cheek weld to a lighter material

 

[Rob01]

I have one on order with the comp rear end so will be interesting to see how that does with my 24” 1.2” barrel. They also drill out some of the aluminum as well as the lighter cheek and bag rider. I have two Matrix Pro now in standard config so I think the little less weight in the back will help some.

 

[oneshot.onehit]

I have one on order with the comp rear end so will be interesting to see how that does with my 24” 1.2” barrel. They also drill out some of the aluminum as well as the lighter cheek and bag rider. I have two Matrix Pro now in standard config so I think the little less weight in the back will help some.

Your correct I forgot about the milling of more material out in spots in the back.

JH
osoh

 

[oneshot.onehit]

I’m almost guessing if I put the Accu-Tac Bi-pod on I could easily move the balance point forward 2”
What a great Chassis system period. MPA Matrix Pro II No extra weights to mess with

JH
osoh

 

[mberlin74]

I’m looking at muzzle thread options.
1/2 28 or 3/4 24.

I was told that 3/4 24 is the safer way to go to avoid any possible belling at the crown. Apparently it’s not something you can see with the naked eye but it can happen as when material is removed the remaining material can slightly move to accommodate its new shape or form. So I guess in theory the less you remove the less likely you are to have issues?

Have any of you had any issues with different thread diameters and pitch? What do you guys go with?

 

[021411]

Personally I would avoid threads all together on a comp rifle unless you plan on using a tuner or shooting suppressed. I’ve been there done that and prefer just a target crown.

 

[Rob01]

I’m looking at muzzle thread options.
1/2 28 or 3/4 24.

I was told that 3/4 24 is the safer way to go to avoid any possible belling at the crown. Apparently it’s not something you can see with the naked eye but it can happen as when material is removed the remaining material can slightly move to accommodate its new shape or form. So I guess in theory the less you remove the less likely you are to have issues?

Have any of you had any issues with different thread diameters and pitch? What do you guys go with?

What you putting on the end? I ran a 1/2-28 threaded Kukri for years and then went to a 5/8-24 threaded MTU for a tuner I had. My present 1.2 has a EC V2 tuner and threaded for that. If you don’t plan to put something on it then no need to thread but I would go 5/8-24 if you were.

 

[mberlin74]

What you putting on the end? I ran a 1/2-28 threaded Kukri for years and then went to a 5/8-24 threaded MTU for a tuner I had. My present 1.2 has a EC V2 tuner and threaded for that. If you don’t plan to put something on it then no need to thread but I would go 5/8-24 if you were.

I’m just trying to plan ahead. I’d like to try a tuner at some point and if I ever move back to the states then I could use a suppressor again. I just figure might as well have the smith do it all from the start.

 

[Rob01]

Then I would get it threaded in whatever thread your suppressor would be in which is most likely 1/2-28 with a .22.

 

[Stugots]

I also has Jonathan at Modacam spin me up a 1.25" straight Krieger/Rimx that absolutely shoots lights out. (Jonathan's proprietary chamber.) Can't recommend his work enough!

 

[MLS2GO]

I also has Jonathan at Modacam spin me up a 1.25" straight Krieger/Rimx that absolutely shoots lights out. (Jonathan's proprietary chamber.) Can't recommend his work enough!

Does his chamber work on both Lapua and Eley?

 

[Stugots]

Does his chamber work on both Lapua and Eley?

He ask if I had a preferred ammo and I said Lapua, which tells me he is chambering specific to ammo brand specs.

 

[021411]

I shot Eley Semi Auto Benchrest (round nose) through my MCR Krieger not telling him what I was using. Once I found the right lot I used it for matches. Killough’s sells 50rd boxes by lot numbers so it’s easier to test.

 

[jelrod1]

The only way I do much different is if it’s for sure an Eley only chamber. Most people don’t want to be tied down to that though. I ask for that purpose and to know what is best pertinent to test with on the particular rifle.

If you see a 22LR-B after the logo engraving that is the designation for my newest bored reamerless chamber. I’ve tested it for a long time and went into production last quarter of ‘23. There are different dimensions depending on the barrel and purpose.

If done properly typically good ammo will shoot whether Lapua, Eley, or RWS. I have people using all of those. This was a fun one where the customer sent in a bunch of different kinds of ammo to see if anything he had would shoot in it. I think he’s mainly shooting R50 and Eley Team in it now.

 

[Defender32]

I have 2 @jelrod1 Built rifles now. I is a RimX in a Foundation Stock, 23.5" 1.25" Krieger 16t barrel and Gen1 EC Tuner. It hammers with Eley, RWS R50, Norma Match and SK/ Lapua. Buy a case and adjust the tune. You are good to go till next case is needed.

2nd Rifle is a Remington 40X Conversion with a Mullerworks 16T 24" 1-1/8" Barrel. It will shoot all ammo's as well. It is just a finished crown no tuner. I have 5 different lots of ammo and at 50y it is all 1/2" groups or better for 10 rounds. As of today it has 400 rounds down the barrel and the numbers seem to be settling down. It was had lapped by Paul Tolvastod prior to MCR spinning it up.

Pictures of rifles at balance points. no weights are used in any stock. The 40X in the Manners does need a bipod up front to balance out properly. I can swap stocks with it and it is not needed.

Johnathan & Modacam Custom Rifles have another RimX on the bench for me to do this year. it is getting a 13T Mullerworks and Gen1 EC Tuner.

 

[Kahrhart63]

The only way I do much different is if it’s for sure an Eley only chamber. Most people don’t want to be tied down to that though. I ask for that purpose and to know what is best pertinent to test with on the particular rifle.

If you see a 22LR-B after the logo engraving that is the designation for my newest bored reamerless chamber. I’ve tested it for a long time and went into production last quarter of ‘23. There are different dimensions depending on the barrel and purpose.

If done properly typically good ammo will shoot whether Lapua, Eley, or RWS. I have people using all of those. This was a fun one where the customer sent in a bunch of different kinds of ammo to see if anything he had would shoot in it. I think he’s mainly shooting R50 and Eley Team in it now.

The only way I do much different is if it’s for sure an Eley only chamber. Most people don’t want to be tied down to that though. I ask for that purpose and to know what is best pertinent to test with on the particular rifle.

If you see a 22LR-B after the logo engraving that is the designation for my newest bored reamerless chamber. I’ve tested it for a long time and went into production last quarter of ‘23. There are different dimensions depending on the barrel and purpose.

If done properly typically good ammo will shoot whether Lapua, Eley, or RWS. I have people using all of those. This was a fun one where the customer sent in a bunch of different kinds of ammo to see if anything he had would shoot in it. I think he’s mainly shooting R50 and Eley Team in it now.




View attachment 8377158

Jelrod1 I have a shilen select match barrel that was chambered by Adam Wackel when he was running Wacked up precision. He was using a boring bar and cnc. It is one of my best shooting rifles. Glad you are intrducing it. Very clean chamber.

 

[mberlin74]

So I’m going with a Gray Ops 34mm scope mount at 1.125 high for my Kahles K 525i DLR.

What are your opinions on the height and is a 30 moa base the standard go to in this case?

Also can I use any rem 700 rail or is there a preferred one to go with?

 

[mberlin74]

So I’m going with a Gray Ops 34mm scope mount at 1.125 high for my Kahles K 525i DLR.

What are your opinions on the height and is a 30 moa base the standard go to in this case?

Also can I use any rem 700 rail or is there a preferred one to go with?

It’s ok. I got impatient and called Vudoo and found out that for the V22 I have to use their rail

 

[Mark_Dorman]

It’s ok. I got impatient and called Vudoo and found out that I for tue V22 I have to use their rail

My bad, I missed your post but I've seen that question asked and as you said, you have to use the Vudoo rail.

So I’m going with a Gray Ops 34mm scope mount at 1.125 high for my Kahles K 525i DLR.

What are your opinions on the height and is a 30 moa base the standard go to in this case?

I went with their 40 MOA to allow for a little more distance but still zeros at 50 just fine. I have 32 mils of adjustment and I think the K 525i DLR has 29 which should be plenty for the 40 MOA rail.

 

[mberlin74]

My bad, I missed your post but I've seen that question asked and as you said, you have to use the Vudoo rail.



I went with their 40 MOA to allow for a little more distance but still zeros at 50 just fine. I have 32 mils of adjustment and I think the K 525i DLR has 29 which should be plenty for the 40 MOA rail.

All good. Thanks Mark. The 40 was also what they suggested.

 

[mberlin74]

A big thanks to everyone who replied and offered advice and help in this thread. I have everything sorted now and this is the final spec list for the build……

MDT ACC Elite Titanium Blue
Benchmark 3 groove 22” MTU barrel
Vudoo V22 Gen 3 action 2 lug
Vudoo pic rail 40 moa
Trigger Tech Diamond 2 stage trigger
MDT CKYE Pod PRS single pull
Kahles K525i optic w/left windage
Gray Ops one piece scope mount
MDT Send It Level
Gray Ops Send It Level adapter
MDT weight kit
MDT rubber dampener kit for stock

I’m thinking of doing a grey cerakote on the barrel and action. Might look nice with the blue chassis.

It’s going to be a while until everything arrives but when it’s built I’ll post some pics.

 

[mberlin74]

Well it took a good while but I finally received everything and had my local smith work his magic. This pic is as it is in its current configuration. I need to play with the weights to see if I can get the balance point further back towards the mag well. I was a little shocked at how heavy it is at 22lbs 2oz. It’s got all 5 weights in the for-end and I’m going to try to see how it balances without one of them.
I ordered an ammo sampler pack which arrived yesterday. Took it to the range and started testing different brands of ammo. 7 brands to be exact. I shot 10 groups with 5 rounds per group for a total of 50 rounds per brand. Then used my calipers to determine who had the best groups.
Here are my results in order of best to worst….

Ammo test at 50 meters based on 10 5 shot groups


Lapua Center X .233”
Norma Tac .310”
SK Standard Plus .312”
SK Long Range Match .365”
SK Rifle Match .366”
Eley Tenex .370”
Eley Force .512”

I was surprised that Norma Tac performed as well as it did. Pretty much as good as SK Standard Plus.

I’ll attach a couple pictures of my two best targets. The black target is the Lapua Center X and the white target is the Norma Tac.

 

[Jack_L]

Ammo test at 50 meters based on 10 5 shot groups

Lapua Center X .233”
Norma Tac .310”
SK Standard Plus .312”
SK Long Range Match .365”
SK Rifle Match .366”
Eley Tenex .370”
Eley Force .512”

I was surprised that Norma Tac performed as well as it did. Pretty much as good as SK Standard Plus.

I’ll attach a couple pictures of my two best targets. The black target is the Lapua Center X and the white target is the Norma Tac.

Not at all to be negative, but I recommend basing your ammunition decision on 10-round groups. I have seen a whole lot of single hole 5-round group ammo that opens up significantly when upped to 10-round groups. As most stages will be 10 rounds, performance through the string matters.
I try to let my barrel cool for 10 minutes or so between groups, and I will push 10 "fouling/seasoning" rounds through before evaluating a different type or lot. Takes a lot of time, but gives me better data on when it comes to making a significant quantity purchase.

Not trying to derail the topic, just some advice I wish I had when I started.

 

[mberlin74]

Not at all to be negative, but I recommend basing your ammunition decision on 10-round groups. I have seen a whole lot of single hole 5-round group ammo that opens up significantly when upped to 10-round groups. As most stages will be 10 rounds, performance through the string matters.
I try to let my barrel cool for 10 minutes or so between groups, and I will push 10 "fouling/seasoning" rounds through before evaluating a different type or lot. Takes a lot of time, but gives me better data on when it comes to making a significant quantity purchase.

Not trying to derail the topic, just some advice I wish I had when I started.

Thanks for the advice. Wish I had it a bit sooner . Ammo purchased already. Hopefully it works out.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

I’m really late, but here’s my direction. I was under “direct” orders from my doctor and my wife to get a lighter rifle. (Shoulder, knee and entire left side bone and joint concerned giving it up)

Still I wanted something that would balance. So, I went with a Kric barrel at 22 inches and an ultra light MPA chassis. I have a straight grip for it but undecided as to whether I want to install it.

The little rifle almost balances perfectly and with the suppressor which I planned to use locally it balances.

Note, it’s happiest with the Armageddon Gear Gamechanger Pint sized bag with sone fill removed. That is an issue with the chassis and the bipod. Stuff just does not fit, because of the shorter length of the fore-end. Really wanted to use my mini plate, which would work, except I have to remove the bipod, which with the 419 adapter, is not an issue EXCEPT, it no longer balances.

Adding weight is Not An Option. Great little rifle, shoots the lights out.

 

[375fan]

I’m really late, but here’s my direction. I was under “direct” orders from my doctor and my wife to get a lighter rifle. (Shoulder, knee and entire left side bone and joint concerned giving it up)

Still I wanted something that would balance. So, I went with a Kric barrel at 22 inches and an ultra light MPA chassis. I have a straight grip for it but undecided as to whether I want to install it.

The little rifle almost balances perfectly and with the suppressor which I planned to use locally it balances.

Note, it’s happiest with the Armageddon Gear Gamechanger Pint sized bag with sone fill removed. That is an issue with the chassis and the bipod. Stuff just does not fit, because of the shorter length of the fore-end. Really wanted to use my mini plate, which would work, except I have to remove the bipod, which with the 419 adapter, is not an issue EXCEPT, it no longer balances.

Adding weight is Not An Option. Great little rifle, shoots the lights out.

View attachment 8481384View attachment 8481388

Nice rig. IMO and experience the majority of the premium .22 ammo is pretty damn close in quality and performance. In the end its the driver that determines the performance and outcome.

 

[GearMaker]

Hey, congrats on getting your build together! It looks great, and I am sure you will get lots of enjoyment shooting it.

I also finally got my chassis and put my rifle together earlier this week:

 

[mberlin74]

Hey, congrats on getting your build together! It looks great, and I am sure you will get lots of enjoyment shooting it.

I also finally got my chassis and put my rifle together earlier this week:

View attachment 8481481

Looks great! I was so close to getting that chassis.

 

[RTH1800]

Did anyone ever state what event the OP will be competing?

 

[GearMaker]

Looks great! I was so close to getting that chassis

Thank you! It's a little different to get used to, but the all of the adjustability options are impressive. I'm very happy I went with this option--and very grateful to a friend who gave me a discount cert to use on the purchase. The chassis balances perfectly with no additional weight.

 

[mberlin74]

Thank you! It's a little different to get used to, but the all of the adjustability options are impressive. I'm very happy I went with this option--and very grateful to a friend who gave me a discount cert to use on the purchase. The chassis balances perfectly with no additional weight.

What’s the overall weight?

 

[GearMaker]

What’s the overall weight?

It's right around 22 lbs as shown.

 

[mberlin74]

Did anyone ever state what event the OP will be competing?

Sorry. Not sure how I didn’t see this question.
I’ll spend the rest of this year finding and dialing the right ammo, practicing and learning how to use a kestrel as well as learning more about wind calls etc. then next year I’m hoping to try a couple different competition series like Canadian Precision Rimfire Series as well as NRL .22 and NRS .22

Did anyone ever state what event the OP will be competing in

 

[mberlin74]

I’ve been testing ammo for a while now and have found that the Lapua Center X is the best performer to date. But it’s also one of the more costly options. So I’ve been trying some different brands to try to find the best “practice” ammo that’s close to the performance of the Lapua. I recently came across a place that had 5 different lots of SK LRM as well as 5 different lots of SK Standard Plus. Here’s my question.

After testing these lots at 50, 100 and 200 using 10 shot groups as suggested above I now have TONS of data to look over. Group sizes, velocities, SD’s and ES. Am I just looking for the ammo that had the best overall groups and lowest SD and ES? Or is one of those things more important than the other.
For example if I shot one of the lots of SK LRM that had the tightest groups at 100 meters, but the SD was higher than the rest would that matter?

I’m trying not to go waaaay too far down the rabbit hole with testing, but would like to understand this and how it will impact my shots a little more.

 

[Rob01]

You already went farther down the rabbit hole than most do. Farther than me. I have never tested 5 different lots of two different ammos and shot them at all those distances. LOL I usually buy a lot and chrono it and tune it at 100 and then shoot it at ranges to 400 yards and run it.

SD is important at longer ranges as it will help with less vertical dispersion but how much is the question. If you are stressing SDs of 6fps vs 8fps then it's not worth worrying but if it's 8fps vs 16fps then that is a difference to take into account. I have shot a lot of SK Long Range and never got SDs that high though. Always found it better than Rifle Match but Rifle Match isn't a bad option for just practice ammo.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

I’ll spend the rest of this year finding and dialing the right ammo, practicing and learning how to use a kestrel as well as learning more about wind calls etc. then next year I’m hoping to try a couple different competition series

You'll help yourself most by incorporating a lot of positional practice into your routine.

I've said this so many times: newbies always want to hit little targets or shoot little groups from prone or a bench. But the skills that matter as much or more than familiarity and confidence with the rifle are abilities to quickly build a stable position on a variety of props and transition quickly and smoothly from one prop to another.

NRL22 posts each month's course of fire (COF) here. These provide a great place to start, using common items like ladders, buckets, sawhorses, etc. for props. Use a timer. So many times, I've helped newbies get started... they struggle a little with transitions... and then I bring in the shot timer and they kinda panic.

Good luck, and enjoy.

 

[Rob01]

You'll help yourself most by incorporating a lot of positional practice into your routine.

I've said this so many times: newbies always want to hit little targets or shoot little groups from prone or a bench. But the skills that matter as much or more than familiarity and confidence with the rifle are abilities to quickly build a stable position on a variety of props and transition quickly and smoothly from one prop to another.

NRL22 posts each month's course of fire (COF) here. These provide a great place to start, using common items like ladders, buckets, sawhorses, etc. for props. Use a timer. So many times, I've helped newbies get started... they struggle a little with transitions... and then I bring in the shot timer and they kinda panic.

Good luck, and enjoy.

100% agree. All that time spent chasing the perfect ammo would most definitely be better spent practicing positional shooting.

 

[mberlin74]

You'll help yourself most by incorporating a lot of positional practice into your routine.

I've said this so many times: newbies always want to hit little targets or shoot little groups from prone or a bench. But the skills that matter as much or more than familiarity and confidence with the rifle are abilities to quickly build a stable position on a variety of props and transition quickly and smoothly from one prop to another.

NRL22 posts each month's course of fire (COF) here. These provide a great place to start, using common items like ladders, buckets, sawhorses, etc. for props. Use a timer. So many times, I've helped newbies get started... they struggle a little with transitions... and then I bring in the shot timer and they kinda panic.

Good luck, and enjoy.

Thanks for this. It makes a lot of sense. Will definitely try to find some place around where I could practice some different types of positional practice.

 

[mberlin74]

So if I were to stop testing for practice ammo now and went with the info I had, the best grouping ammo I tested at 50, 100 and 200 had the following data.

50 meters 10 shots ES 25.7 SD 8.5

100 meters 20 shots ES 13.8 SD 4.1

200 meters 20 shots ES 25.4 SD 6

Is having an extreme spread number that high something to be considered with when considering .22 competition stuff?
And I assume that the SD numbers are looking good?

 

[Rob01]

So if I were to stop testing for practice ammo now and went with the info I had, the best grouping ammo I tested at 50, 100 and 200 had the following data.

50 meters 10 shots ES 25.7 SD 8.5

100 meters 20 shots ES 13.8 SD 4.1

200 meters 20 shots ES 25.4 SD 6

Is having an extreme spread number that high something to be considered with when considering .22 competition stuff?
And I assume that the SD numbers are looking good?

Those numbers look fine. If it's accurate stop testing and start practicing.

 

[mberlin74]

Those numbers look fine. If it's accurate stop testing and start practicing.

Thanks Rob.

 

[beetroot]

So if I were to stop testing for practice ammo now and went with the info I had, the best grouping ammo I tested at 50, 100 and 200 had the following data.

50 meters 10 shots ES 25.7 SD 8.5

100 meters 20 shots ES 13.8 SD 4.1

200 meters 20 shots ES 25.4 SD 6

Is having an extreme spread number that high something to be considered with when considering .22 competition stuff?
And I assume that the SD numbers are looking good?

An ES of 25fps is not high, it's almost as good as you can expect from from 22lr.

It's certainly not high enough to lose you first place at a match.
I'd even venture to say CCI SV is good enough for most club matches, and unless you are constantly in the top 10 a high ES isn't going to be holding you back.

 

[mberlin74]

Question about cleaning the barrel. Ive seen many posts and videos regarding cleaning and that you can go though thousands and thousands of rounds without needing to clean. Basically clean it when you start to see your accuracy dropping off.
What I’m curious about is all the lot testing that I did. I ran at least 7 or 8 different brands of .22 through it until I settled on one. Now that I’ve got my ammo to use, should it be cleaned to get all the different oils and other stuff that’s coated on the case out of the barrel and start fresh with my new ammo of choice? And then moving forward only clean it when it seems to be affecting accuracy?

 

[beetroot]

Question about cleaning the barrel. Ive seen many posts and videos regarding cleaning and that you can go though thousands and thousands of rounds without needing to clean. Basically clean it when you start to see your accuracy dropping off.
What I’m curious about is all the lot testing that I did. I ran at least 7 or 8 different brands of .22 through it until I settled on one. Now that I’ve got my ammo to use, should it be cleaned to get all the different oils and other stuff that’s coated on the case out of the barrel and start fresh with my new ammo of choice? And then moving forward only clean it when it seems to be affecting accuracy?

I clean more frequently than just waiting for accuracy to drop off, especially the camber and the receiver/breach face.
If I'm going into these areas with cleaning compound it's going to get into the bore so I may as well clean that too.

There is no right or wrong way to do cleaning, you'll need to find a process that works for you.
Just don't get hung up on the though that cleaning is bad and to be avoided if possible.

I would clean the barrel now you are starting on a new case of ammo, no good reason not too.