Questions about my m40a1

[C Peters]

This is my first post but I’ve poked around on here for some time before actually joining. I was lucky enough to be able to purchase a m40a1 off of retired marine major before he passed. He was stationed at Marine base Quantico towards the end of his career and had something to do with the PWS. I know very little about the history of this rifle other than what I was told by him. I was told he had it built by the armors before he retired but that’s all the information I was given as he wasn’t in the best health. The action is a C prefix but the barrel is unfinished with no markings anywhere on it. I’m just curious if anyone on here may have a better idea what I have or what the story of this rifle could be beyond what I was told. Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[Coejro]

More pictures, and ideally higher quality please. Close ups of crown, bottom metal, any markings (including serial and any markings around it)

 

[Deathrowdave]

Does it really matter ? It’s yours and it’s an M40A1 . Enjoy it and be the keeper

 

[C Peters]

More pictures, and ideally higher quality please. Close ups of crown, bottom metal, any markings (including serial and any markings around it)

Bottom metal is correct that it’s two piece Winchester style but I will get better pictures tomorrow. Thank you for your response.

 

[sinister]

Nice looking rifle. A major at Weapons Training Battalion would probably have been the XO or S3 (Operations Officer).

A number of the gunsmith-builders (MOS 2112) moonlight by building guns on the side or at home. Some are exceptionally good to superior. Some need the practice. Most times you'll get a gun that will put a smile on your face without the ignorant long wait times and full retail cost you'll endure when ordering from a commercial shop.

 

[C Peters]

Here are some more pictures of my rifle. There are only the traditional markings on the action and none anywhere on the barrel. A couple questions I have about it are what kind of barrel might it possibly be and why would it have been left stainless or what would be the proper coating? Also I’ve looked around on here in reference to the scope. It’s a leupold vxIII 2.5-10 I know the unertl 10x is traditionally what was on m40a1 rifles but I have seen this scope on other rifles while browsing the forum so I’m curious if it was an issued optic in some situations?

 

[AccuSol-ERN]

Doesn't look like the action has been clipslotted. The stock inlet around the bottom metal looks big compared to the metal.....is it bedded? These are what I catch without seeing the BA out of the stock to see the trigger cut, welded mag box, modified recoil lug, etc.

Either way it looks like a good rifle with a unique story.

Enjoy it.

Ern

 

[C Peters]

Nice looking rifle. A major at Weapons Training Battalion would probably have been the XO or S3 (Operations Officer).

A number of the gunsmith-builders (MOS 2112) moonlight by building guns on the side or at home. Some are exceptionally good to superior. Some need the practice. Most times you'll get a gun that will put a smile on your face without the ignorant long wait times and full retail cost you'll endure when ordering from a commercial shop.

The gentleman’s name was Bernard (Bernie) Siwicki. We worked together part time at lowes and became fast friends over our love of shooting and collecting firearms. He told me about this rifle and I would always jokingly try to buy it off him knowing I most likely couldn’t afford it! When he got sick the time came and his wife needed help dealing with his collection (she was terrified of guns). She opened the safe and found he had attached a note to the barrel of my rifle telling her to get ahold of me for help and to give me the rifle as payment. I was honored and thankful she did because he had some very expensive and collectible firearms That I was able to find good homes for. I couldn’t accept her offer because I knew the value of my rifle so we did settle on a price that I still very much seen as a gift to me!

 

[C Peters]

Doesn't look like the action has been clipslotted. The stock inlet around the bottom metal looks big compared to the metal.....is it bedded? These are what I catch without seeing the BA out of the stock to see the trigger cut, welded mag box, modified recoil lug, etc.

Either way it looks like a good rifle with a unique story.

Enjoy it.

Ern

Yes the BA is bedded very tightly I took those pictures on my lunch I can pop it out of the stock later tonight and get more pictures but thank you for your input!

 

[Belvedere]

Nice rifle. Have you shot it yet? Took mine out yesterday to enjoy adjusting the scope. Lol

 

[sinister]

If the rifle was built in the 70s through early 90s black oxidizing stainless wasn't done by a lot of outfits. You had the option of paint before Cerakoting became a thing (although Brownells may have had epoxy coatings).

Being a Marine he may have wanted or preferred the 10X Unertl Marine scope which may have simply been unobtanium. The 10X or variable (topping at 10X) Leupold would have been an acceptable option. Leupold wasn't private-selling many M3s and M3As except to SOTIC grads by arrangement.

 

[C Peters]

Nice rifle. Have you shot it yet? Took mine out yesterday to enjoy adjusting the scope. Lol

Yes I’ve put about 500 rounds through it since I got it. After load work up I’ve found a few ringers using imr 4064 with 168gr SMK and 155 Barnes match burners. It’s consistently 1/2 moa.

 

[C Peters]

If the rifle was built in the 70s through early 90s black oxidizing stainless wasn't done by a lot of outfits. You had the option of paint before Cerakoting became a thing (although Brownells may have had epoxy coatings).

Being a Marine he may have wanted or preferred the 10X Unertl Marine scope which may have simply been unobtanium. The 10X or variable (topping at 10X) Leupold would have been an acceptable option. Leupold wasn't private-selling many M3s and M3As except to SOTIC grads by arrangement.

Ok thanks for your response! I would like to get the barrel parked or coated but I wanted to make sure it was correct. Yes I can imagine the unertl scopes were hard to obtain even for a major working with the 2112’s! The leupold works good I can only shoot to 550 at my house but I have no problems hitting my 8” plate at that distance. The leupold has a standard duplex reticle which is a bummer. I’ve debated getting a swfa fixed 10x for it I know it’s not correct but it’s what I think would look best within my budget.

 

[sinister]

You're shooting half-minute groups as it sits -- you can kill most anything up to elk, and ring steel targets to at least 850 as configured.

How dead does your target have to be?

 

[C Peters]

You're shooting half-minute groups as it sits -- you can kill most anything up to elk, and ring steel targets to at least 850 as configured.

How dead does your target have to be?

Haha you make good points! I only have a few hobbies hunting, fishing, and reloading so I’m always chasing the smallest group’s possible. I’d love to shoot at a vintage rifle match someday but I don’t know if my limitations of being in a wheelchair would allow me to meet the shooting position rule requirements.

 

[sinister]

A very distinguished wheelchair-bound Marine gentleman used to shoot prone and sitting at Camp Perry, with wheelchair-seated in place of standing.

Vintage Sniper, Mid-range (600 yards), and Long Range (800, 900, 1000 yards) are all shot prone, no Tarzan commando stuff.

All per the National Matches rules book.

 

[Belvedere]

Awesome. Love 4064 myself. Using cfe223 at the moment with my 168s

 

[C Peters]

Yes the BA is bedded very tightly I took those pictures on my lunch I can pop it out of the stock later tonight and get more pictures but thank you for your input!

Doesn't look like the action has been clipslotted. The stock inlet around the bottom metal looks big compared to the metal.....is it bedded? These are what I catch without seeing the BA out of the stock to see the trigger cut, welded mag box, modified recoil lug, etc.

Either way it looks like a good rifle with a unique story.

Enjoy it.

Ern

Here are some more pictures of it outside of the stock. It is not clip slotted and as far as I can see the magazine box is not welded but is attached by a screw.

 

[Skunk]

It’s a nice old rifle. I think I’d leave it alone.

 

[C Peters]

.

 

[C Peters]

It’s a nice old rifle. I think I’d leave it alone.

I would like to have the barrel coated or parked but that’s about as far as I’ll go. I looked at some other posts you commented on and seen you have the same scope on a fbi m40. Is your reticle duplex or old school mildot? I’ve dialed with this scope a little but can’t really speak to its tracking at this point. What’s your experience with them? We’re these scopes a common set up for these rifles in certain instances?

 

[Skunk]

I would like to have the barrel coated or parked but that’s about as far as I’ll go. I looked at some other posts you commented on and seen you have the same scope on a fbi m40. Is your reticle duplex or old school mildot? I’ve dialed with this scope a little but can’t really speak to its tracking at this point. What’s your experience with them? We’re these scopes a common set up for these rifles in certain instances?

Getting the rifle finished in Black Oxide would look very nice….

The scope I still have is one of three old FBI scopes I had. One of the three had a duplex and the others are mil dots. The FBI had each reticle.

I have not shot with the scope to distance very much, but have found the adjustments to be as accurate and repeatable as I would expect. A parallax adjustment would be nice (like the later Leupold Mk4), but it’s not a “must have” at 10x magnification. I’ve got quite a lot of trigger time behind a Unertl and they don’t have an easily adjusted parallax setting, but it’s still a very capable optic.

I don’t think the Leupold Vari-X 3.5-10 you have is a disadvantage to you at all. In fact, with variable magnification and 1/4 min knobs, you’re probably ahead of the capabilities of the Unertl. It will definitely handle inclement weather better than the Unertl. At the time your rifle was likely built, your scope was a natural choice for a discerning shooter.

I think your rifle is an excellent representation of a Top of the Line gun from the 80’s, with some definite evidence of USMC build procedure (bottom metal and trigger modification). Like I said, I’d leave it alone, but a Black Oxide finish would make it look nice.

 

[C Peters]

Getting the rifle finished in Black Oxide would look very nice….

The scope I still have is one of three old FBI scopes I had. One of the three had a duplex and the others are mil dots. The FBI had each reticle.

I have not shot with the scope to distance very much, but have found the adjustments to be as accurate and repeatable as I would expect. A parallax adjustment would be nice (like the later Leupold Mk4), but it’s not a “must have” at 10x magnification. I’ve got quite a lot of trigger time behind a Unertl and they don’t have an easily adjusted parallax setting, but it’s still a very capable optic.

I don’t think the Leupold Vari-X 3.5-10 you have is a disadvantage to you at all. In fact, with variable magnification and 1/4 min knobs, you’re probably ahead of the capabilities of the Unertl. It will definitely handle inclement weather better than the Unertl. At the time your rifle was likely built, your scope was a natural choice for a discerning shooter.

I think your rifle is an excellent representation of a Top of the Line gun from the 80’s, with some definite evidence of USMC build procedure (bottom metal and trigger modification). Like I said, I’d leave it alone, but a Black Oxide finish would make it look nice.

Thank you for your reply! Yes I agree I won’t do anything to change my rifle outside of having the barrel done because I want to keep it as true to form as possible. I do like the scope I have leupold optics on 90% of my other rifles and I’ve been successful hitting my 8” plate at 550 with relative ease so I don’t feel at any disadvantage with this 2.5-10.

 

[C Peters]

A very distinguished wheelchair-bound Marine gentleman used to shoot prone and sitting at Camp Perry, with wheelchair-seated in place of standing.

Vintage Sniper, Mid-range (600 yards), and Long Range (800, 900, 1000 yards) are all shot prone, no Tarzan commando stuff.

All per the National Matches rules book.

Oh very cool! I don’t think I would be able to shoot from the prone due to how my back and neck are fused from surgery. It would still be interesting to attend a match to check it out for myself though.

 

[Phil McGrath]

Just incase you were wondering what your rifle would look like with a Mk4-10X.

 

[C Peters]

Just incase you were wondering what your rifle would look like with a Mk4-10X.

View attachment 8355236

That’s a good looking rifle how’s it shoot?

 

[kft101]

Just incase you were wondering what your rifle would look like with a Mk4-10X.

View attachment 8355236

Great looking rig! I have a fondness for McMillan dark camo. Too bad they no longer offer it.

 

[sinister]

C Peters, the Leupold you have was a very popular police rifle scope through the 90s.

You can spend more, but practically I don't think you're giving up much.

Removing the barrel is required for oxidizing or nitriding. Cerakoting or epoxy can be sprayed-on and either air-seasoned or baked.

Nitriding will extend barrel longevity two or three times normal throat life.

 

[Random Guy]

I’m just curious if anyone on here may have a better idea what I have or what the story of this rifle could be beyond what I was told.

This would appear to be what is sometimes called a "Hobby Lobby" build. In the past, in order to "maintain their gunsmithing skills," some USMC MOS 2112s have had discretion/privilege to build 'gratis'/pro bono rifles or pistols, using civilian parts, provided to them by active duty USMC personnel or retired personnel. (My guess is the Scout-Snipers, and USMC Rifle Team/Pistol Team utilized Hobby Lobby the most, back in the day). Back then they could drop off the box of parts at the lobby of the PWS shop, and a few weeks later they pick up the completed project. Often these projects are built at the home of a 2112, with maybe some machining done at the PWS shop. Given the lack of any finish wear on that rifle and scope, it was built using civilian parts presumably purchased by the deceased Major. (Nothing on that rifle appears to be any issued/USGI parts).

In recent years, USMC PWS leadership has sort-of frowned upon "Hobby Lobby" activities (long story from previous decade about someone abusing their privileges for profit motive). Anyhow, since you asked, I suspect its a Hobby Lobby rifle, likely built 'gratis' for the USMC Major in the 1990s or early 2000s, based on the style of the stock and civilian scope. The 2112 didn't go through the trouble of clip slotting the receiver, but the other build/bedding characteristics are what is seen on M40A1s. No idea what barrel could have been used, but possibly its a 1/12 twist barrel. (Schneider barrels have been used since the early 2000s, but for a Hobby Lobby build, its whatever was provided by the deceased Major back in the day. Hart, Krieger, Schneider, or ?).

It's too bad they didn't do the black oxide coating of the barrel, but it could be done by others if they have the right solution. Stainless steel can not be parkerized/phosphated - but it can be chemically darkened via the black-oxide process. Its somewhat caustic solution, and not all gunsmiths want to mess with that finish. Given it was likely originally built by a 2112 decades ago, I would try to find someone to do the "correct" black-oxide finish on the barrel.

When he got sick the time came and his wife needed help dealing with his collection (she was terrified of guns). She opened the safe and found he had attached a note to the barrel of my rifle telling her to get ahold of me for help and to give me the rifle as payment.

Sounds like that rifle found a good home, and hopefully you will enjoy Bernie's gift to you in the years ahead. Its a keeper.

 

[C Peters]

This would appear to be what is sometimes called a "Hobby Lobby" build. In the past, in order to "maintain their gunsmithing skills," some USMC MOS 2112s have had discretion/privilege to build 'gratis'/pro bono rifles or pistols, using civilian parts, provided to them by active duty USMC personnel or retired personnel. Back then they could drop off the parts at the Lobby of the PWS shop, and a few weeks later they pick up the completed project, often they are built at the home of a 2112, with maybe some machining done at the PWS shop. Given the lack of any finish wear on that rifle and scope, it was built using civilian parts presumably purchased by the deceased Major. (Nothing on that rifle appears to be any issued/USGI parts).

In recent years, USMC PWS leadership has sort-of frowned upon "Hobby Lobby" activities (long story from previous decade about someone abusing their privileges for profit motive). Anyhow, since you asked, I suspect its a Hobby Lobby rifle, likely built 'gratis' for the USMC Major in the 1990s or early 2000s based, on the vintage of the civilian stock and scope. The 2112 didn't go through the trouble of clip slotting the receiver, but the other build/bedding characteristics are what is seen on M40A1s. No idea what barrel could have been used, but possibly its a 1/12 twist barrel. (Schneider barrels have been used since the early 2000s, but for a Hobby Lobby build, its whatever was provided by the deceased Major back in the day. Hart, Krieger, Schneider, or ?).

It's too bad they didn't do the black oxide coating of the barrel, but it could be done by others if they have the right solution. Stainless steel can not be parkerized/phosphated - but it can be chemically darkened via the black-oxide process. Its somewhat caustic solution, and not all gunsmiths want to mess with that finish. Given it was likely originally built by a 2112 decades ago, I would try to find someone to do the "correct" black-oxide finish on the barrel.

Sounds like that rifle found a good home, and hopefully you will enjoy Bernie's gift to you in the years ahead. Its a keeper.

Thanks a ton that’s the explanation I was looking for!! I will definitely look into finding a competent gunsmith to have it black oxide coated even if it’s a hobby lobby build I would like to stay as true to form as possible. Yes this rifle is one of my prized possession along with a original colt python I was able to purchase from his collection. They will both be handed down when the time comes with the stories of who my friend Bernie was.

 

[Phil McGrath]

That’s a good looking rifle how’s it shoot?

Shoots well with just about everything I stuff in the chamber 168-175’s doesn’t really matter at all. Best I’ve done off a ruck has been one ragged hole @ 100yds, prone off bipod @ 200yds about 3/4moa. that is when I hold up my end….It will ring steel @ 600 with ease.

But this guy got a new stock, and Im itching to get it out and play with it. The downside is everything in the house is packed up, we sold and are moving to Louisiana.

And this guy needs some time out in the sun as well….

 

[C Peters]

Shoots well with just about everything I stuff in the chamber 168-175’s doesn’t really matter at all. Best I’ve done off a ruck has been one ragged hole @ 100yds, prone off bipod @ 200yds about 3/4moa. that is when I hold up my end….It will ring steel @ 600 with ease.

View attachment 8356798
But this guy got a new stock, and Im itching to get it out and play with it. The downside is everything in the house is packed up, we sold and are moving to Louisiana.

And this guy needs some time out in the sun as well….

View attachment 8356805

That bottom rifle is sweet! I love the old woodland pattern no matter the colors. I’m a sucker for old school traditional things for example my hunting rifle all through is pillar and glass bed it’s still has a wood stock. My next project will most likely be a 223 trainer I have the donor R700 action but that’s as far as I’ve gotten. It will probably get a 22” heavy contour barrel and a McMillan game hunter stock in woodland camo.

 

[Phil McGrath]

That bottom rifle is sweet! I love the old woodland pattern no matter the colors. I’m a sucker for old school traditional things for example my hunting rifle all through is pillar and glass bed it’s still has a wood stock. My next project will most likely be a 223 trainer I have the donor R700 action but that’s as far as I’ve gotten. It will probably get a 22” heavy contour barrel and a McMillan game hunter stock in woodland camo.

Rifle pic #1, I posted is Dark Camo it’s not really Forest or Woodland, it just is what it is and I don’t remember how McMilian described it.

Rifle pic #2, is the current Shadow I like it as it’s pretty subtle. I had another Dark Camo stock with M5 inlet and hardwear that a buddy just had to have so we worked out a trade. It’s now attached to my 40X.

Rifle pic #3 is just plain old GAP.

 

[03MC11]

Very nice rifle... rest easy devil!

 

[Skunk]

Great looking rig! I have a fondness for McMillan dark camo. Too bad they no longer off it.

I believe this is the same Dark Camo pattern underneath the paint…

 

[kft101]

I believe this is the same Dark Camo pattern underneath the paint…View attachment 8364263

Yes, sir! Looks like dark camo (green, black, and red/brown).

Is that another FBI rifle?

 

[capthook]

Wj

Shoots well with just about everything I stuff in the chamber 168-175’s doesn’t really matter at all. Best I’ve done off a ruck has been one ragged hole @ 100yds, prone off bipod @ 200yds about 3/4moa. that is when I hold up my end….It will ring steel @ 600 with ease.

View attachment 8356798
But this guy got a new stock, and Im itching to get it out and play with it. The downside is everything in the house is packed up, we sold and are moving to Louisiana.

And this guy needs some time out in the sun as well….

View attachment 8356805

Where in LA are you? Where are you shooting?

 

[Phil McGrath]

Wj

Where in LA are you? Where are you shooting?

Haven‘t got there yet we hit the road on 3/13, we are headed to Lafayette area. Give us 3-4 days to get there and a few days to unpack and settle in, then I will start looking into ranges.

Where are you at, and any recommendations?

 

[capthook]

Haven‘t got there yet we hit the road on 3/13, we are headed to Lafayette area. Give us 3-4 days to get there and a few days to unpack and settle in, then I will start looking into ranges.

Where are you at, and any recommendations?

Lafayette is an awesome town. I'm east of there in between BR and NO. Palo Alto is probably the best place to shoot but a little far from Lafayette...

 

[Phil McGrath]

Lafayette is an awesome town. I'm east of there in between BR and NO. Palo Alto is probably the best place to shoot but a little far from Lafayette...

When the dust settles we will have too get together for coffee.

 

[capthook]

When the dust settles we will have too get together for coffee.

Sounds good