range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

[laylowlong]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: samson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">US869 works really well with the 300gr bullets out of the 338 Lapua Improved. Not so great with the lighter bullets but works well with the heavies. </div></div>

I use the 869 with the Lapua Scenar... 102 grains seems to be the sweet spot for me, now I will have to try the Bergers. Nice.

 

[Broz]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

Mudvayne, Good Shooting!!! Are you using G1 or G7 for your BC in your tradgectory calcs? And what BC number? How close was your solutions at 2K ?

My velocities are the same as yours from my 338 LM with 91.5 gr and Gen 1's. I have shot about 250 of the Gen 1's and have had one range session with the Gen II's. First impressions are that I will be able to up the charge a bit (with Gen II's) from the charge I used with the Gen 1's. More like what I used with the SMK's.

Thanks
Jeff

 

[mudvayne]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

Jeff, I actually saw your load on another thread and started at 91.5 gr of H1000. First five shots over crono only varried about 4 fps and the 5 shots went at .18". I stopped there

Anyways I used the suggested G7 of .455 on the box and I actually was HIGH on my first shot! I came down 1.25 MOA and the next two shots were just off because of windage as I was dialing 17.5 MOA right. I connected on the 4th shot. My gen 2's have not come in yet..I did order the cutting edge projos and am waiting for the fields to dry enough so I can go out and shoot them.

What is your Gen 2 charge?

 

[Broz]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mudvayne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is your Gen 2 charge? </div></div>

I loaded 40 with the same 91.5 gr of H-1000 and hve shot 30 of them. First impressions are that I can up it a little. So I am going to load a few at 92 and 92.5 and see what I get.

Jeff

 

[mudvayne]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

Good deal Jeff. Cant wait to see your results.

 

[Broz]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

I finally got around to trying the 92.5 gr loads. It was 65 degrees and all looked good as far as pressure. I started with 3 set .059" off the lands and fired them at 200 yds. Then went to 3 at .015" off the lands. I know my E.S. was good before at .015 but didnt want the added pressure right off from being close to the lands. All looked good. Bolt lift was fine and no sign of ejector pin marks. Just the slightest of primer crater but the primers were not flat at all. So for some reason I can run the 300 gr Berger Gen 2's with a grain more powder than the Gen 1's. This is on par for my 300 SMK load. So I am thinking it is due to the thicker jackets. I was only shooting 200 yards so far, but accuracy was ok. About .5 moa.and my form was bad, crappy place I was shooting from. Velocity must be a bit higher too. I haven't chronoed it yet but it was 1/2 moa higher than the 91.5 gr load. Long Range shoot tomorrow in Townsend so I will load a few more tonight and send some to a grand tomorrow..

Jeff

 

[Broz]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

Gen 2 300's shot very well. I sent about 20 out to 1000 so far. I am still struggling with my program a bit working out a curve but the accuracy was good. We did a little friendly competition at a cut out full sized antelope. Point of aim being the corner of white hair behind the front shoulder. You had to range and dope the goat and all shooters took one shot with a sharpie colored bullet. I got the honors with my cold bore placement at 757 yrds.

Jeff

 

[Broz]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

Sent about 150 of the Gen 2's now. Got some on steel at 1905 yards at Aug's field shoot last weekend. All look good with the Gen 2's.

Jeff

 

[mudvayne]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

Jeff great stuff brother! What program and G7 are you using? I used the .455 with the gen 1's and it seemed to be spot on for me even though Berger mended that number. Maybe my chrono was off and the fake vel and .455 G7 just freakishly worked out..prob not but anyways!

I am going to PM you with a few questions.

 

[mudvayne]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

Oh and Jeff I couldnt help but notice your Mk V action... My 338 Norma is a left handed clone of your rifle except I went with a 30" Schneider 9" twist finished at 1.1" at the muzzle. McMillan A5, Near 50 MOA Alpha mount and NF 5.5-22x56(soon to be replaced with Premier 5-25)

 

[Broz]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

I use .419 for a G7 BC. Seems to be good so far.

Jeff

 

[Broz]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

Just spent 4 days at Defensive Edge Long Range class with Shawn Carlock. I shot about 60 of the Berger Gen 2's to a distance of out to 2300 plus yards. Both Shawn and I sent several at the 2300 plus yard rock to see how they grouped going subsonic. Results were good and It seems holding 1 moa at that distance is definatly possible. The bergers were flying good for me I made several hits from 600 to 1400, 1500, 1700, and 2003 yards. Accuracy was superb and first round hits on 1 moa targets were pretty common.

I have all my actual data logged and using the Shooter app I was spot on until about 1400. Then I added 1 moa from there out to be on again. I plan to take my data and see what I need to do to the BC after 1400 to correct for ELR. Right now I am very impressed with this bullet.

Jeff

 

[Donald]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

Thats great news Broz about the new berger Gen2 300gr hybrid what have you found is the best seating depth on, or of the lands for these great new bullets?

 

[Broz]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rocky Mountain</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thats great news Broz about the new berger Gen2 300gr hybrid what have you found is the best seating depth on, or of the lands for these great new bullets? </div></div>

I seated them from .015" to .060" off the lands with little difference in 300 yard groups. They are not as touchy as VLDs with seatin depth. I settled in on .015" off lands as it had a slightly better ES.

Jeff

 

[onlyfineknives]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

Broz,

How were they grouping at 300?

Thanks -

 

[Broz]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: onlyfineknives</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Broz,

How were they grouping at 300?

Thanks - </div></div>

Average 1 1/2" or a bit less at 300. I had a 3 shot at 500 go 2" as well. In my old rifle 1/2 moa is pretty common if I am having a good day.

Jeff

 

[mudvayne]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

Jeff I think we need to link up some time and send some shots together. I have access to almost 500,000 acres here in texas that we can go hunt. I wouldnt mind heading north either
This dang heat is just rediculous down here!

Chase

 

[Broz]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

That would be awesome. I have plenty of places to hunt rocks to well past 2000 yds, but as far as private hunting ground goes I am sorry to report I have none. Elk and deer seasons are really busy for me, but if you are ever up here or planning a trip please, lets shoot.

Oh, it is 58* this morning but will proably hit 85 today with about 20% humidity.

Jeff

 

[mudvayne]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

I would love to go on a chuck hunt!!! Always wanted to bad!!! We can go after hogs down here like you wouldnt believe. I shot one last year at 1374 yards and 1018 yards.

Ya this morning here it was 93 and 68% humidity. Going to get to 107 today..better than yesterday at least as it was 110. May have to put on my sweater!

 

[Broz]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mudvayne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would love to go on a chuck hunt!!! Always wanted to bad!!! </div></div>

Sorry man I think I misled you. I was talking shooting rocks. It is one of my favorite thing to do and great practice for field conditions. We do have lots of coyotes too, but then who doesn't.

Jeff

 

[mudvayne]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

Well I would still like taking you up on a rock hunt. The shooting is what Im after..not necessarily killing critters. Im just as happy shooting steel or rocks. Afterall, the shot is my trophy not the animal.

Your still welcome to Texas whenever you want. The offer remains on the table.

Chase

 

[Broz]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mudvayne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I would still like taking you up on a rock hunt. Your still welcome to Texas whenever you want. The offer remains on the table.

Chase </div></div>

Chase, I appreciate the offer, but for now I have to rain check it. I am just finishing our new house and time and trip $$ are spent for a while. Except of course for a few previous planned hunts.

But let me know when you want to hunt killer rocks, we have a good herd and season is open year round. I would enjoy shooting with you.

Jeff

 

[mudvayne]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

Haha sounds great Jeff! Im about sick of this Texas heat anyhow. Maybe in the spring or something I can make a treck your direction.

 

[Broz]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mudvayne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Haha sounds great Jeff! Im about sick of this Texas heat anyhow. Maybe in the spring or something I can make a treck your direction. </div></div>

Awesome, that would be a great time.

Jeff

 

[Broz]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

I have been shooting this week mornings and evenings finalizing drops for my .338 LM with the Gen 2 Berger Hybrid 300's.

The accuracy of this bullet is amazing. Tonight I shot a group at 738 yards that went into 2".

the farthest group was at 1536 yards and was 7"

Every group I have shot this week has gone 1/2 moa or better except for one that went 3/4 moa. I truely called the shot that took it out as a bad trigger break.

This is not bragging so please do not take it that way. The rifle was on a bipod and solid on bags in the rear. So it was not the shooter so much as the equipment. I just wanted to share and encourage the .338 shooters to give these a test drive. They have made my rifle very consistant.

PS: Thanks Walt, Eric, Bryan and the people at Berger. What a fine product.

Jeff

 

[Longshot38]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

Jeff good to know. I have a couple boxes of these bullet sitting on the shelf waiting on my rifle to find it's way back. Have you done any work verifying BC of these bullets?

 

[Broz]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Longshot38</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jeff Have you done any work verifying BC of these bullets? </div></div>

This is what I am doing now. I am gathering solid paper group data at several distances to 2000 yards. All indications at this point are that my .338 LM @ 2800 MV will need stepped BC's starting at some point around 1200 to 1400 yards, then again somewhere about a mile. This is taking time to get all data. I want good flat ground data with groups on paper to be as precise as possible. Not dust balls off rocks that look like a good hit even if they are 1/2 moa high or low. I am only shooting mornigs and evenings when wind is low and mirage is not an issue.

Right now I feel the advertised G7 and G1 BC's are pretty darn close. I find my rifle is good with a G7 of .419 to .423 and a G1 of .820 But it seems after a certain point past 1200 I have to add about 1 more moa to be spot on.

Time will tell for sure when all data is in. I am using "Shooter" and employing both spin drift and coriolis.

Jeff

 

[Longshot38]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

Good deal. I figured a stepped BC would be needed for ELR use but have yet to see any data about this. And I'm going to have to work up some data for both these bullets and the 245 Lehighs when I get my rifle back. Which should differ from yours some due to atmospheric variables but your data is helpful. Please keep us up to-date as your collect more data.

 

[Broz]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

Will do longshot, I have good data to 1500, just waiting for perfect conditions to gather 1700 and 2000 data.

Jeff

 

[CoryT]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

Broz, what's your jump to the throat? I'm loaded out to 3.725 and with Retumbo I'm getting 2850, but accuracy seems a bit spotty. Sunday I got 4 rounds into 8" at 1350 meters, round 5 is 8" outside that even though velocity was SD of 9 for all 5 shots. Current length leaves me about a .06 jump.

 

[mudvayne]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

Shot my 338 norma this weekend and had to use a G7 of .44 to get on target at 1000, 1200, 1500 and 2150 yards. Im using a velocity of 2900 fps even though actual vel on the chrono says 2930ish. Just thought I would share this. I have it on video too

 

[Broz]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Broz, what's your jump to the throat? I'm loaded out to 3.725 and with Retumbo I'm getting 2850, but accuracy seems a bit spotty. Sunday I got 4 rounds into 8" at 1350 meters, round 5 is 8" outside that even though velocity was SD of 9 for all 5 shots. Current length leaves me about a .06 jump. </div></div>

Cory, I am .015" off the lands. 3.860" OAL or 3.004" to O-give. I would sure give H-1000 a spin. I have ventured away from Retumbo due to its pressure spikes.

YMMV

Jeff

 

[Broz]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

Mudvane, what chrono ya using?

Another thig I have learned is, shooting at rocks to find drops is not the greatest method for me. I have found discrepancies of 1/2 moa or more when I put them on paper. Much better method to fine tune a program. But it is a pain taking a 2 mile drive in a rough field to check targets.

Jeff

 

[mudvayne]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

I have 3 chronos...2 beta masters(hehehehe) and a PAC 1XP. They all say the same thing for the most part.

 

[CoryT]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

How's H-1000 for temp variations? Retumbo has been very stable for me, though I have noticed that there is a pretty fine line between no pressure signs and a max load.

The DTA could take a load that long, but I'm mag limited to 3.725 in the ASW.

Shooting a rock or such is good to confirm you have the right general dope to get on your real target, but a plate or paper tells the tale. I use fairly large white plates with a thin red line to get a precision elevation hold. Milling the edges of the group lets me know I'm making progress before I even ride out to paint. A digital camera takes a pic with a ruler on the plate and then On Target software can do the stats with precision.

 

[Broz]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How's H-1000 for temp variations? </div></div>

Not that Retumbo is bad with temp swings, but like you stated a "fine line" and the hot chamber does effect that.

H-1000 is probably the most stable I have found. I will use these loads I work up now in 30* and down conditions hunting.

There has been many many one shot kills with game well over 1000 yards with H-1000 and .338's.

Jeff

 

[cali_tz]

Re: range report ...300 berger at 2000 yards

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mudvayne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shot my 338 norma this weekend and had to use a G7 of .44 to get on target at 1000, 1200, 1500 and 2150 yards. Im using a velocity of 2900 fps even though actual vel on the chrono says 2930ish. Just thought I would share this. I have it on video too </div></div>

2930fps with a 300 grain round? That's incredible... I am about 2750 and the case is stuffed practically, either Retumbo or now I am using N570... on a 27.1" barrel... how do you get speeds like that?!

edit: oh i see you have a 338 Norma... I am not sure of the diff between it and Lapua Mag...