Reload precision rifle on Dillon 650?

[padom]

Precision loading on the 650 will depend more on what powder you want to use than anything.

Only if your using the Dillon powder dispenser... A bunch of us use the Dillon powder die without the dispenser and a funnel to drop powder like Varget, H4350 and the like. I recently worked with Area 419 to have an adapter made that fits the Dillon powder die with their aluminum milled funnel which is what Im using now. You can buy it directly from Area419.

 

[ubet]

Only if your using the Dillon powder dispenser... A bunch of us use the Dillon powder die without the dispenser and a funnel to drop powder like Varget, H4350 and the like. I recently worked with Area 419 to have an adapter made that fits the Dillon powder die with their aluminum milled funnel which is what Im using now. You can buy it directly from Area419.

Can you post a link?

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[Sheldon N]

http://www.area419.com/product/funnelheads/

It's one of the drop down options...

 

[ubet]

[video]http://www.area419.com/product/funnelheads/[/video]

It's one of the drop down options...

Thanks for that. I'd searched their site and was a little confused at first. Will I still need the funnel head with their Dillon powder die?

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[padom]

Yes you need the funnel to attach the adapter to.

 

[ubet]

Update.
Bought the tapped tool head from uniquetek, the funnel set up from 419 and what I needed from Dillon for the conversion. I loaded 31 rounds of Lapua brass on it tonight. What a pain in the ass to get it in sync with it. The funnel is a great piece of equipment, as long as the piece that sits inside the powder die is put in right. After I got the feel of it though, it kept the ol +/- .001. Their were a few that were to deep, but I think that's because I did something wrong. It damn sue took some getting used to how everything worked for precision rifle on a progressive.



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[ubet]

So I am all set up whidden floating tool head with the uniquetek clamp system, Redding dies etc. I had cases in every station when I clamped the tool head down. But I'm getting +/- .003 difference on my ol. Any ideas?

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[padom]

have you took measurements of the bullets your using with a bullet comparator??? Do they very in length, base to ogive?

 

[ubet]

have you took measurements of the bullets your using with a bullet comparator??? Do they very in length, base to ogive?

It's the same batch of smk. But no, I haven't.

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[ACK]

FWIW. 550B. I prefer sizing on my old Rockchucker. I then inspect each case for incipient case separation, oal case length, neck splits...
Depending on my mood I will prime on the 550 or use a hand priming tool.
My most common powder is Varget. Using the std 550 powder drop (31 samples) and weighing each charge on an RCBS digital scale:

sd	0.148
max	43.8
min	43.2
max spread	0.6
average	43.5

Minitab (statistical software) predicts 98.2% of my loads will be at 43.5 ± 0.4 Gr

Eons ago I loaded several 308 rounds on my single station, weighing each charge, another batch on the 550. At the range I had my buddy providing me with 5 rounds at a time without knowing the source. Afterwards I could not significantly differentiate the loads on the 100 yard target. Factors to consider:

Range 100 yards
Shooter, my skillset could be the limitation
Weapon: Blueprinted 700, Broughton barrel, AICS stock Leupold MK4...
Brass FC
Bullets 168 SMK
Load 43.5 Varget while accurate in my rifle may not be the prime load.
Dies: Forster

I am not a benchrest shooter, my most common target is a 10" disc at 600 yards. For my intended purpose 550 does well...

 

[MunsonT45]

Help me out with something here. It too have a 650 and have installed the Uniquetek clamp system. My question is, does that not take away the ability for the tool head to float? The way it comes from the factory, the tool head has some slop in it as well as the shell plate. The Uniquetek clamp system takes the slop out of the tool head and locks it down. From what I'm hearing, you want that slop for alignment...or does the Uniquetek clamp system just limit the tool head from sliding vertically, while still keeping horizontal alignment in the shell plate?

 

[padom]

Help me out with something here. It too have a 650 and have installed the Uniquetek clamp system. My question is, does that not take away the ability for the tool head to float? The way it comes from the factory, the tool head has some slop in it as well as the shell plate. The Uniquetek clamp system takes the slop out of the tool head and locks it down. From what I'm hearing, you want that slop for alignment...or does the Uniquetek clamp system just limit the tool head from sliding vertically, while still keeping horizontal alignment in the shell plate?

The clamp kit locks the toolhead down so there is no play. If you use it with the Whidden floating die toolhead then the way the dies are installed into their toolhead allow the die to float like it's supposed to instead of the entire toolhead. Uniquetek makes a floating die toolhead also but I have the Whidden. No experience with Uniqueteks version..

http://www.whiddengunworks.com/product/floating-dillon-toolheads-2/

 

[Sixfivesavage]

I'd like to bring this back up for a little help from more experienced guys with progressive loading precision bolt gun ammo. I'm using a whidden clamped toolhead and seating with a Forster mic seater and using the area 419 powder funnel. I'm also priming on this run through the press. I have a dillon universal decapper coming that I plan to run on this toolhead to clear tumbling media but it's not here yet. My question is, I'm getting several thousand variance on COAL measured at the ogive when it was always right on the money using the same die on my rockchucker. The shell plate is pretty snug to the point the press won't index on its own if you let go of the handle. I'm not sure if I'll be able to but I plan to run the decapper die down to contact the shell plate lightly to counteract any tilt there may be in the shell plate when seating but was wondering if there's anything else I should be doing and was also wondering what you guys deem acceptable as far as variance goes. This is for 6.5 creed and 140 eld-m bullets.

Another thing to note, I had originally planned to use my Sinclair neck mandrel in the position right after a Forster bushing bump die and a spare powder die opposite the sizer touching the sell plate to eliminate the play. Turns out, for some reason the neck mandrel is causing dings on the case mouths. I've tried loosening the top of the die a few turns, tried it on a clamped head as well as billet machined head, no dice. Not sure what's causing that. Any ideas? Think an o ring under it would help or maybe moving it somewhere else? I'd like to run it if possible since it really dropped my sd/es numbers with hornady brass.

 

[TheGerman]

You need to measure each bullet on the ogive and sort first.

Same box will have ogive variances. Usually not huge, but well within the .003 you are seeing,

 

[Sixfivesavage]

You need to measure each bullet on the ogive and sort first.

Same box will have ogive variances. Usually not huge, but well within the .003 you are seeing,

Same box of bullets had 80 of them loaded on the single stage and they were all the exact same oal at the ogive and I measured 5 from the box after noticing the variance on the Dillon (all I had left not loaded) and they measure the same. I'm fairly certain it's the press or the way the die floats in the toolhead. How much do you compress the spring loaded portion of your seater die when you run the die in a progressive?

 

[TheGerman]

Same box of bullets had 80 of them loaded on the single stage and they were all the exact same oal at the ogive and I measured 5 from the box after noticing the variance on the Dillon (all I had left not loaded) and they measure the same. I'm fairly certain it's the press or the way the die floats in the toolhead. How much do you compress the spring loaded portion of your seater die when you run the die in a progressive?

Ive never had a box of any color where theyrd exactly the same.

After sorting, the other wst to take out any variables with your seater is to seat the round and then turn it a third of a turn and run it again.

I guess in a progressive you could send them all through the seater twice manually.

 

[Marksman10x]

Just to put things into perspective a little, this is a 5 shot group with five different seating depths. I think it's from touching the lands to .015" off with 130 VLD's which are fairly depth sensitive. Also on a cold barrel

 

[ubet]

I was worried about it too originally, the varying ol, but I came to find out, I don't shoot good enough to tell the difference. Theirs so many variables that a few thousandths of an inch difference isn't one I overly worry about. Between atmospheric conditions and shooter error, for me +/- .003 isn't to big of a deal. To some i'm sure it is, but not to me.

 

[Srikaleak]

So let's try raising this thread from the dead instead of creating a new one. I've got a question for y'all from a nascent reloader who's about to purchase a Dillon 750XL. I noticed a lot of people use 2, or even 3 toolheads for loading precision rifle on their Dillons. My question to you is, could I just use 1 toolhead but still do multiple passes through it. Here's an image of what is currently done and what I want to do.

My thinking is on the first pass (brass prepping), the brass being prepped wouldn't be effected by or affect the Dillon Powder die or a Bullet Seating die.
My concern for the second pass is: I will have to lube the cases to get it through the sizing and mandrel die, but then the cases can continue on to be primed, charged with powder manually, and seat a bullet? Will having lube affect a super negative outcome to reloading brass into a cartridge? I was going to use imperial sizing die (and later on try the DIY lanolin solution) to, hopefully, minimize the negative effects.

Additional Notes:

• Prior to brass prepping, fired brass will be tumbled in corncob/walnut media.
• Between the first and second pass I will be trimming the brass in a Giraud.
• Press will be used for .223 Rem and 6.5 Creedmoor, predominantly (and 9mm which is not relevant here).
• Did I use affect and effect correctly? https://www.grammarly.com/blog/affect-vs-effect/
• I know I'm just saving, like, $35 for a billet toolhead but I want to reduce swapping toolheads and reduce clutter as much as possible.

Addendum:

• Some more research led me to a phenomenon called "cold weld" between the brass and the bullet. This led me to imagine that any excess lube caught between the bullet and the neck of the case could lead to inconsistent neck tension. Is this the a known issue?

 

[Sheldon N]

My thinking is on the first pass (brass prepping), the brass being prepped wouldn't be effected by or affect the Dillon Powder die or a Bullet Seating die.
My concern for the second pass is: I will have to lube the cases to get it through the sizing and mandrel die, but then the cases can continue on to be primed, charged with powder manually, and seat a bullet? Will having lube affect a super negative outcome to reloading brass into a cartridge? I was going to use imperial sizing die (and later on try the DIY lanolin solution) to, hopefully, minimize the negative effects.

Skip past the imperial and go straight to alcohol/lanolin. It makes no sense to run a progressive then need to individually hand lube each case. Negates the advantage and might as well do single stage.

Can't run an unlubed case through a sizing die, even if it's already been sized. It will get stuck.

You will not want to run cases with any lube on them through a Giraud trimmer. They need to be clean or you will gum up the works.

You don't really want to powder cases with lube on them. It can be done but often powder kernels can stick to lubed areas. Kinda messy. Then you also need to tumble the lube off live rounds, not my preference.

Answer is a two stage process. Decap, FL, Mandrel on toolhead one. Then tumble brass clean and trim as needed. For toolhead 2 you do prime, powder, seat bullet.

If you want to be even more efficient just do a single pass on one toolhead and tumble the lube off live rounds. Totally viable for 223 ammo. I still do 223 as a two step process though, prefer keeping the lube and powder separate and not tumbling live rounds.

Another tip for efficiency, buy a LOT of brass. Then you can process a pile of like 1k pieces of 223 and load as needed.

 

[Srikaleak]

Answer is a two stage process. Decap, FL, Mandrel on toolhead one. Then tumble brass clean and trim as needed. For toolhead 2 you do prime, powder, seat bullet.

Just seems weird and inefficient to have empty stations. But I agree with you that two tool heads will be the way to go. Maybe I'll fill those empty stations with all those sensor and checker dies. (Powder check, etc)

 

[Srgt. Hulka]

I'm terribly inefficient, but so far, my ammo is shooting great.
I decap on my single stage press.
I clean/polish.
I resize on my single stage press.
Clean/polish again to remove the lube.
I prime on my RCBS bench-top priming tool.
I hand charge each case using a Hornady powder charger, a trickler, and a Gempro scale.
Then I seat on my 550.

 

[Sheldon N]

I'm terribly inefficient

Oh man, you could be doing all the same stuff so much faster with no loss in quality.

 

[Srgt. Hulka]

Oh man, you could be doing all the same stuff so much faster with no loss in quality.

I know. I'm still new to the precision loading/shooting. I hit a 3X3 inch piece of steel at 500 yards 10 times in a row with my ammo on Sunday. I want to keep doing that, so I'm meticulous. I'm sure, way to meticulous.
I will refine my processes as I go along, and feel more comfortable using a quicker method. I would love to turn out precision ammo like I turn out my .223 or 9mm...hundreds an hour.

 

[Kwilm]

I switched over to a 650 about a year ago from a coax. I run two tool heads for each caliber and this is what I do.

First toolhead-
Decap, FL bushing size and mandrel size

Clean lube off and run them through my giraud trimmer

Prime on the Dillon, charge by hand (use my auto throw with 120i) seat the bullet.

It was amazing how much time I saved in not having to insert/remove each case from my coax alone. Much less being able to make one handle pull do up to three things at once.

Also, Area419 make a powder for adapter for the Dillon. It screws onto their powder funnel. I would
suggest buying one.

 

[lou400a]

Also, Area419 make a powder for adapter for the Dillon. It screws onto their powder funnel. I would
suggest buying one.

Thanks for the heads up. They make great stuff

 

[Sheldon N]

I know. I'm still new to the precision loading/shooting. I hit a 3X3 inch piece of steel at 500 yards 10 times in a row with my ammo on Sunday. I want to keep doing that, so I'm meticulous. I'm sure, way to meticulous.

Yep, my match ammo will do that too. Deprime and size 400 pieces of brass in half an hour, load match ammo at around 100 rounds in half an hour with precision weighed powder. All on the Dillon 550. Only limiting factor in speed is the powder weighing and manually pouring the charge into a funnel on the toolhead.

 

[Srikaleak]

I switched over to a 650 about a year ago from a coax. I run two tool heads for each caliber and this is what I do.

First toolhead-
Decap, FL bushing size and mandrel size

Clean lube off and run them through my giraud trimmer

Prime on the Dillon, charge by hand (use my auto throw with 120i) seat the bullet.

It was amazing how much time I saved in not having to insert/remove each case from my coax alone. Much less being able to make one handle pull do up to three things at once.

Also, Area419 make a powder for adapter for the Dillon. It screws onto their powder funnel. I would
suggest buying one.

This is going to be exactly what I end up doing.

 

[Kwilm]

Now if we can just figure out how to retrofit a Prometheus to automatically drop in the case we’d be set.

 

[Sheldon N]

Now if we can just figure out how to retrofit a Prometheus to automatically drop in the case we’d be set.

Already been done. See link below

Dropbox - Error - Simplify your life

www.dropbox.com

Personally I decided to stick with the left/right arrangement. I'm too worried that I would get off-cycle and either double charge (powder everywhere) or worse yet bring an empty case to a match and be put into a dangerous kaboom situation.

Currently I pour powder and cycle the press (5 count for prime, advance, place bullet, load brass, pull handle) then take one step to the right to grab the next charge off the Prometheus. When I step left I add powder and cycle the press, when I step right I get a new charge into the powder pan. I am usually back to the Prometheus within 1-2 seconds of it finishing the charge so it wouldn't be that much faster to have it directly above the press anyway. I don't mind the movement and it keeps me from standing still in one place for a long time.

Would be pretty much the same workflow with an FX120/autotrickler, they are just as fast.

 

[fxdrider]

I've started using a 550B. I was concerned that run-out would not be as good as on my single stage, but so far the numbers have been the same.

 

[DellaDog]

All on the Dillon 550. Only limiting factor in speed is the powder weighing and manually pouring the charge into a funnel on the toolhead.

What drop tube/funnel combo do you use? I'm currently using the Hornady kit as it has a transparent funnel and stable die.
(Unlike the 419 combo which occasionally bridges and the aluminum funnel makes it tough to catch)

 

[Sheldon N]

What drop tube/funnel combo do you use? I'm currently using the Hornady kit as it has a transparent funnel and stable die.
(Unlike the 419 combo which occasionally bridges and the aluminum funnel makes it tough to catch)

I use the internal Dillon powder funnel inside the Dillon powder die, then modified a MTM universal funnel kit to fit inside the powder die on top of the powder funnel. Clear tube so you can see inside, no issues with bridging. I've posted pics of it before, will see if I can find a link...

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/dillion-650-issue.6948637/#post-7812407

 

[memilanuk]

What drop tube/funnel combo do you use? I'm currently using the Hornady kit as it has a transparent funnel and stable die.
(Unlike the 419 combo which occasionally bridges and the aluminum funnel makes it tough to catch)

I have one of the old translucent pink MTM funnels that Whidden used to modify and send out with his tool-head kits. Basically it looks like he took their universal powder funnel kits, and turned the (square) flange off the bottom part, so it is a slip fit inside a Dillon powder measure die (with no other insert). It sits all the way down, and when you run the ram up with a case in that station, it fits right over the mouth just like it would on a case sitting in a tray. I dump the powder, flick it with my fingernail to make sure everything goes down the hole like it should.

I love my 419 gear, but I honestly like this funnel setup better.

 

[DellaDog]

Sure wish someone would come out with a true funnel tube combo that didn’t require hacks. The Hornady kit comes close, but the clearance between the funnel and dies is tight.

I’d like to try the Whidden combo; I sure like his tool head kits.

 

[padom]

I helped design the Area419 adapter with Jon and I've run 1000's of rounds through my 550 with it. I run 2 drop tubes with it regularly and have it set in the powder die so when the handle is all the way down the powder die adapter lifts about 1/8".

I've never had a problem.

 

[Kwilm]

Sure wish someone would come out with a true funnel tube combo that didn’t require hacks. The Hornady kit comes close, but the clearance between the funnel and dies is tight.

I’d like to try the Whidden combo; I sure like his tool head kits.

Get the area 419 funnel kit with a Dillon adapter and a 3” tube and never look back.

 

[DellaDog]

I have the Area 419 setup (with the Dillon adapter) and used both the 3” tube and double stack. It’s an attractive and functional setup, but with H4350 I have had numerous incomplete drops due to unnoticed bridging. First time I noticed was after several consecutive drops, enough powder had bridged and hung up it resulted in an overfill on the last, when it eventually broke thru.

(Granted, my setup on the bench puts the funnel above eye level, so I don’t regularly stand up and look down into the funnel to ensure its empty, especially with the double stack.)

Without a see thru funnel (or bottom tube), I’m never certain every kernel is making it into the case - double stack or not.

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

I have the Area 419 setup (with the Dillon adapter) and used both the 3” tube and double stack. It’s an attractive and functional setup, but with H4350 I have had numerous incomplete drops due to unnoticed bridging. First time I noticed was after several consecutive drops, enough powder had bridged and hung up it resulted in an overfill on the last, when it eventually broke thru.

(Granted, my setup on the bench puts the funnel above eye level, so I don’t regularly stand up and look down into the funnel to ensure its empty, especially with the double stack.)

Without a see thru funnel (or bottom tube), I’m never certain every kernel is making it into the case - double stack or not.

View attachment 7121744

I use this same setup on my 550, and while i appreciate the machining and clean look, it will, usually once per reloading session, bridge powder inside the drop tube (H4350 or RL16 both do it). But when mine bridges, the act of me lowering the ram jiggles everything just enough to dump the powder all over my press and elicit a few choice four letter words.

It also makes a chimes sound if i bump the press.

 

[padom]

Well thats odd. Never had H4350, H4895, Varget or any other powder bridge on mine. Only time I have issues is those few times I pour powder before lowering the press handle....???

 

[Huskydriver]

Well thats odd. Never had H4350, H4895, Varget or any other powder bridge on mine. Only time I have issues is those few times I pour powder before lowering the press handle....???

I hate this so bad

 

[Huskydriver]

I have the Area 419 setup (with the Dillon adapter) and used both the 3” tube and double stack. It’s an attractive and functional setup, but with H4350 I have had numerous incomplete drops due to unnoticed bridging. First time I noticed was after several consecutive drops, enough powder had bridged and hung up it resulted in an overfill on the last, when it eventually broke thru.

(Granted, my setup on the bench puts the funnel above eye level, so I don’t regularly stand up and look down into the funnel to ensure its empty, especially with the double stack.)

Without a see thru funnel (or bottom tube), I’m never certain every kernel is making it into the case - double stack or not.

View attachment 7121744

Lift the funnel and visually check before lowering the handle

 

[Sixfivesavage]

Mine bridges sometimes as well. I've resorted to sticking a long Allen wrench down the funnel before I lower the ram to make sure it's not bridged each time because its above eye level. Slows me up a bit but it's better than a few cases worth of powder all over the machine and bench.

 

[fxdrider]

I've been using the Lee funnel, which has a smallish opening. It bridged on me once - with 4350. Quite the mess.
After that, I pour slower. I recently acquired the Dillon funnel & die. It's got a big enough opening to where I doubt it will bridge. Nevertheless, still pouring carefully. Cleaning up powder is not my idea of a fun afternoon.

 

[Rover31]

Been there on a 550 worked perfect with a floating toolheads and thrust washer.

I am setting up my 650 with the two toolhead method now.
This is what my workflow/toolhead set is looking to be.
Dillon 650 toolhead set up
Tool head #1 size, trim, mandrel
Station
Lube
1, universal de-cap
2- empty
3 Dillon trim die and trimmer
4-empty
5 Lyman mandrel

Tumble
Debur chamfer if necessary

Toolhead #2 Powder, prime, bullet seating
1-universal de-cap
2 empty/primer seating Mandrel?
3 powder drop or funnel
4 powder check die
5 bullet seater

I did find a couple of add on parts to help. Beyond the better toolheads, the thrust washer to stabilize the case holder plate, the spent primer catch tube. These parts below are really cool!

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Along with the quick disconnects from Entirely Crimson.
They make the multi tool head method and set up much better.

Dillon XL-650

Premium accessories for the reloading hobby. High quality upgrades and enhancements for Dillon Precision, RCBS, Hornady, Lee, Lyman and more. Origin of innovative products including the AR Trigger Guard Upgrade Screw Kit.

entirelycrimson.com

 

[Srikaleak]

You could try mounting this on your funnels if bridging is a constant foe: https://www.robotshop.com/en/solarbotics-vpm2-vibrating-motor.html

Ive got the 419 setup and eager to try it out. If bridging is ever an issue I'll probably throw that vibrator on there.

 

[memilanuk]

You could try mounting this on your funnels if bridging is a constant foe: https://www.robotshop.com/en/solarbotics-vpm2-vibrating-motor.html

Ive got the 419 setup and eager to try it out. If bridging is ever an issue I'll probably throw that vibrator on there.

So... years ago, when I was shooting Service Rifle half-ways seriously, and looking into my first progressive press to keep up, I remember a thread on arfcom where the discussion was about how to make the stock Dillon APM throw short stick powders consistently. A number of folks had gotten cheap fish tank aerator pumps and found various ways to mount them to the base or frame of their 550/650 to transmit a slight vibration to the powder measure and settle the throws a little bit. Of course, there was that one guy who just duct-taped a vibrator to his press. Lots of questions followed... as you might imagine ? ?

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

...Does the increased surface area of a vibrator help, and what size do i need to fit neatly onto a 550 frame? I presume I can order one in dillon blue to match the rest of the room.

I'm going to grab an old rumble pack motor and test this later.

 

[1moaoff]

@padom

Can we get a sticky for " progressive reloading for precision"?

 

[Rover31]

@TheOfficeT-Rex
This one in blue even!

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