Reloading 101: Reloading basics for the new reload

#101
Re: Reloading 101: Reloading basics for the new re

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Black-X</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johngfoster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Setting up the dies:

In the absence of a headspace gauge (which actually pretty worthless if you think about it, since they are made to a standard that may or may not match your chamber) or another device that allows you to measure the shoulder of the case, you will need the rifle that the ammo is intended for. For this text the brass we are resizing will not fit into your chamber. That gives you a starting point: The bolt won&#146;t close.
</div></div>

Sorry if this is a noob question, but I tried this and am confused. When I back off 1 full turn, I find I'm not sizing the whole neck. I can see a line halfway down on my neck where it transitions from being sized down to the unsized size. Also, it seems no matter how far out I back my die, the newly sized case chambers easily without resistance. What am I doing wrong?

BTW, I'm using Redding type S FL sizing die with bushing of 0.336", Lapua brass, RCBS Rockchucker press. </div></div>

John,

The key point in writing my article was to start with brass that WOULD NOT chamber in the desired rifle. For new brass you may find that you can load the brass with out resizing it at all. It all depends on your chamber and the ability of the brass to spring back.

As to sizing the neck with a bushing you need to screw either the die or the neck bushing adjustment (depends on your dies) IN to the press to get the sizing part lower. When you get to the junction of the neck and the shoulder is where you need to be careful because this is where you begin to push the shoulder back. Minimal movement at all points is the desired effect.

Hope that cleared the waters some. Again, I do not subscribe to bushing dies and the article is not written for them.

Cheers,

Doc</div></div>

So how do you setup the FL dies if the brass WILL fit?

-X </div></div>

Well, I got a Hornady L&L headspace gauge--attaches to my dial caliper. I measure the length from the datum on the shoulder to the case head of a fired case. At first I had trouble doing this because the primer has this little dimple/crater thingy in it once it is fired.
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Then I got the bright idea of putting it in the hand priming tool and crunching the spent primer in just a bit more so none of it protrudes beyond the case head. Problem solved. Now I can get an accurate measure of the dimensions of a fired case. Anyway, I then set the die up so that when the shell is in the shell-holder at the top of the stroke, I screw the die in until it touches. Then I screw it in a fraction of a turn more, size the shell and measure again, until it is 0.002" shorter at the shoulder. Then I size another fired case after pushing the primer in again, and measure the bump again just to confirm. If it is still 0.002", then I'm GTG. Pretty simple really. With bushing dies I find that they don't seem to size the whole neck even when bumping the shoulder a fraction. There is still about 0.020 or so left of the neck that hasn't been sized right before the junction with the shoulder. I guess this is OK. I'm open to hearing differing opinions on this though.
 
#102
Re: Reloading 101: Reloading basics for the new re

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alan luc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doc, A friend of my son told him that he achieves accurate COAL by starting a bullet into a case and then chambers the cartridge and gently closes the bolt. Removes the cartridge, measures OAL and seats bullet .010 deeper. Would this be a desireable method????????? </div></div>

You should dremmel a split it the case neck to get it more consistent and not jam
the bullet into the lands when doing it this way.
 
#103
Re: Reloading 101: Reloading basics for the new re

Sizing the neck is for holding the bullet. If it doesn't size "all the way to the shoulder" but chambers don't worry about it. If anything it will center the neck in
the chamber better.
 
#104
Re: Reloading 101: Reloading basics for the new reload

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alan luc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doc, A friend of my son told him that he achieves accurate COAL by starting a bullet into a case and then chambers the cartridge and gently closes the bolt. Removes the cartridge, measures OAL and seats bullet .010 deeper. Would this be a desireable method????????? </div></div>

You can do it that way, I did it that way for years but I also used a sharpie to color the boolet. Look for the lands and grooves marks on the boolet and you will know when you are touching. Then you can back her down to your desired length. The hardest part is to get "just enough" neck tension that the bullet will move INTO the case but not PULL OUT OF the case when you extract.

On most factory rifles you will find the lands start waaayyyyy out there, often farther away than you can fit in the mag.


Some day I have to update this thread.

Cheers,

Doc
 
#105
Re: Reloading 101: Reloading basics for the new reload

I have a couple of hand priming tools w\ the different holders in them (too lazy to change and they're cheap) I store them in broom holders screwed to my bookcase where I keep some manuals catalogs, etc. That way I can leave the primer trays on them without leaving them on the table or in a drawer where they get broke. They're the spring loaded ones that look like "c"'s. Just another helpful hint from heloise.
 
#106
Re: Reloading 101: Reloading basics for the new reload

THe kudos cannot be said often enough. This work is incredible and Thanks. I marveled at it and in these strange days it is a comfort to know there are men in the world who can express their thoughts well and take the time to pass along the wisdom and knowledge they accrue over time. There are both in the article.
 
#107
Re: Reloading 101: Reloading basics for the new reload

Wondering if I need to send mmy dies back to RCBS....they are 270WSM and I have loaded with them before...bolt was hard to close sometimes but never consistantly, some times even hard to open but never any primer problems.

Now rifle has new barrel and chambers factory loads perfectly....but with FL sizing I have a hard time closing bolt.....have even gone from touching the shell holder to about 4 revoloutions tighter with the die.....even took the expander out to see if that was it and still no luck. I had to remove some of the base of the die on a nother set of dies before...22-250 I belive in order to get it to bump the shoulder at all....currently I belive I am just hitting the shell holder and die and not actually getting to the sholder on the inner die.....

Would it be a bad idea to spin a few thou off the base of the die where it meets the shell holder? Buddy has a lathe so that's easy....rather than fuck around sending it to RCBS....in the first 3 reloaded rounds fired I had primer going into the firing pin hole...not bad but some and also had an 3ctractor mark and some case head smearing......

Ideas???? I have read the resizing text here and in the Sierra book and still no luck.....thanks.
 
#110
Re: Reloading 101: Reloading basics for the new reload

i will vouch for the loc and load press.this is the one i use,and buy bushing for each die.one little gripe is most of the die boxes will not close with the bushing on the die.but for the convenience of keeping the dies set i just deal with it
 
#113
Re: Reloading 101: Reloading basics for the new reload

Doc, I got a box of Lapua 308 brass and my question is: Do I need to resize this new brass before loading it? Some say yes, some say no. What’s your recommendation?
I measured this brass and I get 2.008 to 2.005

Thanks,
Christian
 
#118
Re: Reloading 101: Reloading basics for the new reload

I have quite a few pistols and have really gotten into LR shooting (few hundred inaccurately placed rounds so far...lol)
I wanted to get into reloading but am now heading for Iraq for a year.

I purchased this with plans of doing a modest amount as I go.

52509.jpg


I plan on now with my new found wealth to build up my .308 as well as purchase some more Rifles and assorted firearms. Is there anything in this kit worth keeping. When I return it will be my first attempts at reloading. Is this a good place to start or should I pick up other equipment.

Rounds to be reloaded are

.308
.40 S&W
.45 ACP
.223
possibly .243
 
#120
Re: Reloading 101: Reloading basics for the new reload

While I'm not new to reloading, the seating depth issue is something I am beginning to take a look at. I have two .308 Rifles, good ones, I think you'll agree. Armalite 10-T CM barrel and 1967 production, Rem 40X. I shoot exclusively Berger 168 HPBT's moly coats in both. Currently trying 43.5 grs. IMR 4064.

I have the Stoney Point and a cliper.
1. Now from what I understand; the AR should be set .010-015 from the lands, but it's ok to touch the lands in the bolt gun? (Yes?No) Understanding that the length in the AR, may not funtion in the mag.
 
#121
Re: Reloading 101: Reloading basics for the new reload

Doc,

Let me start by saying a big thank you for posting this! Can you
suggest an appropriate drill press for this work. Table top or floor mount and maybe the correct speeds to use for the tools mentioned? Any insight would be most appreciated.

Thanks,

Grant
 
#122
Re: Reloading 101: Reloading basics for the new reload

After reading this for the third time; it finally hit home. For years, I've been cleaning brass, checking case length, and just loading. Now I understand the need for the other actions, such as pocket uniformity, or anything that aides in consistency. I have "no excuse rifles," Armalite 10-T, and a very early production model 40X, so I supposed I should take the exra time to create the best ammo for them.

Great Article.

Now I know why Snipers Hide is for the Serious Tactical Marksman.
 
#123
Re: Reloading 101: Reloading basics for the new reload

You have started with what I think is a basic go for it kit. I started with a simular set up, only an RCBS Junior, years ago (1977). You'll find that a single stage press is a bit slow for pistol ammo. I have three Lee Turret 1000's for pistols; two I got from guys who only thought they were intersted in reloading. I wore one out. Have had a Rock Chucker, and a Junior; and now a Dillon 550. Wish I'd kept the Rock Chucker, as I have an 8 lb can of 4064, and I have to use the Dillon as a single stage, as it won't throw that powder. (Loading .308, .243, 25-06, and 223).I load a lot of pistol calibers (44 mag, 41 mag,.38/357, 40 cal, 9mm, and the Lee makes 100's of rounds an hour. Probably faster than the Dillon, as they are auto indexing. From where you are, to where your looking is about the money. The Lee may not be a Dillon, but you're in it, and it will work.
 
#127
Re: Reloading 101: Reloading basics for the new reload

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Originally Posted By: doc76251As I understand the question, NO.

IF the OAL gauge is the one that looks like the cartridge with a rod hanging out the back. You can use that gizmo but I have found them problematic to find the lands with any consistency. I like the sharpie and light neck tension myself. Then again I'm old and stubborn

Cheers,

Doc



Doc, so your saying take a bullet, load it into a processed case(minus primer and powder) with minimal neck tension as to let the bullet slide back when chambered, mark buller with sharpie, load the round into the rifle, then extract the round, and measure from the base to where the "marker" touches the lands? Do I have this correct? Will this give me OAL of chamber or just what my seating depth baseline should be?</div></div>

Great post Doc!

I'm still somewhat confused by this. If you establish where you are sitting on the lands, you can measure this and reference it when setting up your seater die. But as mentioned in your original post, bullet ogive will vary (even on match bullets), so this measurement will not be consistent. Would this mean that you will need to do this produre (seat bullet long, mark bullet with sharpie, chamber, measure) for each round? I'm guessing that bullet ogive variation would be small enough not to worry about this, but just wondering.

Thanks!
 
#128
Re: Reloading 101: Reloading basics for the new re

I have 2 questions. I'm new to reloading. Would/does humidity play a factor in reloading? Secondly, all I could find was IMR 4831 powder as of late. I shoot 300 WIN mag.(shortly DPMS .308), and load for pop 325 WSM. It works for the two big boys obviously. I loaded 40 rounds for the 308. Is it to slow burning for the auto 308? Jamey
P.S. IMR 4007 is 85 on burn chart and is max'd @ 48 grains, IMR4831 is 95 on burn list and I loaded 49 grains w/ 165 hornady copper so I can be legal. Is it to hot for DPMS 308? I Full sized new brass (not neck sized),it's @ trim spec,chamf'd in/out flash hole. Less than max COAL. (What is a good COAL for auto 308 so no feed problems?)
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IMG_0252.jpg
 
#130
Re: Reloading 101: Reloading basics for the new reload

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jkkfam89</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Very helpful, thanks.
Thoughts on this kit
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=749997</div></div>

I'm by no means as experienced as a lot of the others here, but I was in the reloading kit market half a year ago and here's what I came up with:
Not sure what quantities/accuracy level you're looking to reload, but unless you prefer Hornady products or prefer using an electronic scale, you can save about $40-50 with some of the other single stage kits. That at least saves you a hair over the cost of your first set of dies.
I bought the RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme kit for my initial setup and I believe it cost in the ballpark of $280 back in June. That at least saves you a hair over the cost of your first set of dies.
The RCBS kit does not come with a powder trickler and uses a standard balance scale instead of electronic. But, I've found that I rarely use the trickler I bought later as much as I thought I would and the balance scale works fine for checking the consistency of my powder throws every 5-6 rounds (this is for general range ammo, not my .308 loads). Once I threw a 1lb jug through the powder thrower and set the adjustment screw, my loads didn't deviate more than +/- .2-3 grains. This was plenty accurate for the range ammo I was reloading.

If you're trying to get set up to do more precise loads though, you'll definitely end up using powder throw to get you in the ballpark and the trickler to bring you exactly where you need to be. So, the extra cash up front for the trickler may be worth it. From my experience the electronic scale is simply a time-saver rather than a necessity.
 
#132
Re: Reloading 101: Reloading basics for the new reload

sir i would like to thank you very much for your time and a very nice and helpful articale. it was well worth the time to read. i completely agree with the ogave measurments vs the oal measurment.
 
#133
Re: Reloading 101: Reloading basics for the new reload

Very well written and presented Doc, your extensive experience pretty much mirrors my own 40 years on the loading bench.

A person wanting to begin reloading should pay close attention to what Doc has to say in his article.

The tooling is the best part, if it has a micrometer sleeve or a dial indicator attached I probably own one.
 
#134
Re: Reloading 101: Reloading basics for the new reload

.010 to.015 sounds just about right for an AR. I have always seated the bullets very close to the leading edge of the rifling on my bolt guns, but never let the bullet touch the rifling because this can cause pressure jumps if the bullet is some what pinched. Bad news when primers fall out of the pockets!

My method is to use a candle to smoke up the ogive of the bullet and keep messing with the micrometer die until I get the bullet about .001 away from the rifling.

I have made up gauge rounds just for measuring throat erosion. A 22-500 barrel is good for about a thousand rounds at most.
 
#135
Re: Reloading 101: Reloading basics for the new reload

I was reading an article the other day about a guy that was lubing the necks of his brass with graphite as part of the bullet seating process.

It doesn't seem like a good thing to do.

Has anyone else tried that? Does anybody use any kind of lube when seating a bullet and I'm not talking about lead either.
 
#138
Re: Reloading 101: Reloading basics for the new reload

Ok so here is a quick update and I am looking for advice from the experienced crowd.. I am sitting in Iraq and happen to be of the "I love contracting in Iraq" mindset.
smile.gif
$
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I have a still in box Lee Anniversary set sitting at home. Just ordered a 3pc Lee .308 set of dies. Buying stuff as I go. I am eventually gonna get a Hornady Lock N Load Progressive but I wanna start buying all the odds and ends I will need for single stage so I can get my practice in before I start turning out high quantity.
What are some other things I need that arent in the Lee Ann but is a must have...

I also just ordered Sierras 1200pg reloading book...
Any and all help is appreciated...
 
#139
Re: Reloading 101: Reloading basics for the new reload

Caveman...it's been a long time since I've done high-end reloading (about to start back up), but the typical answer used to be .10 of a grain, which is pretty darn small. It may be even tighter now, but I've shot some incredibly small groups with that standard at some close and very long distances.
 
#140
Re: Reloading 101: Reloading basics for the new reload

Doc,
I can't thank you enough for this article.I am new to long range shooting, and as a natural progression, have been starting to think about reloading. I appreciate your approach to producing the best quality ammo in the most time efficient way for the lowest setup cost, as these are my main concerns:What do I need to get the job done without going broke, and still turn out a good product. I have corrosponded with several members here on the Hide about various aspects of reloading, and found their advice to be very helpful, but your all inclusive "Reloading 101" format resolves any confusion I may have had. After reading your advice,I now feel like I know what I need to get started, and about what it will cost me to get there. I'm sure there are many others out there who feel the same way. Thank you again for sharing the benefits of your experience, and for taking the time to help others.
 
#142
Re: Reloading 101: Reloading basics for the new reload

I wanted to thank you for doing this write up. Just last week I got a reloading set-up from a fellow Hide member and have been using your guide extensively and in combination with plethora of other reloading literature that is littering my desk. It is so nice to have clear, concise, and accurate information supported by pictures. Thanks again, I really appreciate it. Hopefully I will be able to get out and shoot my first reloads here in the next couple of weekends.
 
#143
Re: Reloading 101: Reloading basics for the new reload

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longshot2007</div><div class="ubbcode-body">wish i would have found this topic when i started loading. thanks this is a great help </div></div> +1
 
#145
Re: Reloading 101: Reloading basics for the new reload

From someone who is just getting started. Thanks for the help. Easy and Simple instructions. Exactly what I need.
 
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