Range Report Rem 700 sps varmint 243 win. Weird groups...

[Shooter89]

Hey fellas just got back from my 1st range trip, im kinda baffled with the results.

My 1st group was bottom center, then next up was my second group. What could possibly cause groups to open this much? I was taking my time and leaving barrel off between shots also.... i was shooting factory ammo. 1st group was great then the rest sucked. Gun is stock no modifications.

 

[Shooter89]

Just is weird how the 1st group is 5 shots a littke over an inch but the rest opened way up.... any observarions?

 

[Codiekfx400]

Could be lots of things. Barrel touching stock? Scope issues? Bad barrel. Bad ammo. And many other things.

 

[Shooter89]

Well its not a free floated barrel but it is a heavy barrel, nothing really makes sense cause the 1st group was decent. My scope is a swfa 10x42 never had any issues before. This is the 1st 20rnds through this barrel.

 

[deltawiskey]

Did you do any kind of break in procedure where you cleaned the barrel between shots / groups?
DW

 

[Codiekfx400]

Free float the barrel. Then clean with Butchs bore shine or equivalent. Then clean with a copper eliminator such as sweets 7.62 solvent. Shoot 20 more clean it again. Keep doing that until when you clean it you see no more blue on the patches. Also I would not shoot for groups until you get 100 or more rounds down range.

 

[Shooter89]

I never really seen the need to break in a rifle, i was going to today but i forgot my kit at my house. Never in my lifel have i have a rifle shoot a moa group then open way up right after. I have sneaking suspicion that it has something to do with the stock.

 

[Shooter89]

Already have dies, bullets and other tools in route to my home to start reloading.

 

[stello1001]

I think you need a better stock and pillar bedded, also add free float to that...

 

[Shooter89]

What do u think about stockys lrv stocks stello1001?

 

[stello1001]

What do u think about stockys lrv stocks stello1001?

I personally would not hesitate to buy it. Stockys is known to have good stuff. I say go for it...

 

[Shooter89]

They are on sale for 199.00 but they dont have the color id like.... dang! They have timber

 

[Codiekfx400]

One moa group then opening up is
Classic copper fouling symptoms imo.

 

[Shooter89]

Codiekfx400, i only shot 20rnds though....

 

[Shooter89]

It opend up after the 1st 5 shot group through a new gun....

 

[Codiekfx400]

Yes I understand what you are telling me. Remington probably sold you a rough barrel and it needs lapped. Easiest wAy to lap is shoot 20 clean shoot 20 clean. If you don’t get any blue then something else is the problem. Stock touching barrel is not going to help accuracy.

 

[Shooter89]

Yea i need to do something about the stock, money is tight so i might just try and redo this one to make it work. Ill try cleaning it be4 i shoot again.

 

[MontanaMarine]

What ammo were you using?

How was the rifle supported?

 

[Shooter89]

I was using plain 100 gr soft point from local wally world, by reloading supplies wont be here till the end of the week. It was supported with a front and rear bag.

 

[Shooter89]

Remington corelock to be exact....

 

[MontanaMarine]

You might just need to lap your bore a bit.

I bought a fire lapping kit from Midway, and like to send about 20 rounds with the fine grit (600), then clean. Seems to help in my cases, both SPS Varmint 308s. After the firelapping They shoot consistent sub-moa.

 

[stello1001]

You might just need to lap your bore a bit.

I bought a fire lapping kit from Midway, and like to send about 20 rounds with the fine grit (600), then clean. Seems to help in my cases, both SPS Varmint 308s. After the firelapping They shoot consistent sub-moa.

I have absolutely no experience with fire lapping a barrel. However, wouldn't you be increasing the bore diameter, mostly in the throat area, potentially costing hundreds of rounds in barrel life? I could be totally wrong though.

 

[RTH1800]

If borescope shows excessive copper I would suggest Tubb “Final Finish”
It was designed for exactly this situation.

 

[cornhusker86]

I have absolutely no experience with fire lapping a barrel. However, wouldn't you be increasing the bore diameter, mostly in the throat area, potentially costing hundreds of rounds in barrel life? I could be totally wrong though.

All you're doing is smoothing out the rough spots. Factory barrels usually have rough bore's left from tooling. Custom barrel makers hand lap their barrels.

 

[cornhusker86]

To OP,
I would definitely replace the stock. SPS stocks are no better than Tupperware.

 

[Shooter89]

I would replace stock but funds are tight or i would....

 

[Shooter89]

Trying to find a left hand sgort action stock thats affordable is like pulling teeth. Been searching for hours and everything is either out of stock or discontinued.

 

[bschneiderheinze]

Clean it and get better ammo the stock will be fine for the now as long as your not putting a lot of pressure on the front. Also are you using the factory bases if so I would look into upgrading to a one piece like a EGW

 

[Shooter89]

I have a quality one piece base that i have already bedded on top sits a set of burris extreme tactical rings and a swfa 10x42

 

[bschneiderheinze]

I’d say clean it and get some quality ammo. You can by with not breaking in a custom barrel properly, but factory barrels are a different animal. Likely has some burrs and fouling that needs cleaned out. Are those the only shots you shot and we’re adjusting the scope between targets.

 

[Shooter89]

My 1st 5 shots, then adjusted the scope is all i did, yes i only shot 20 rnds of factory ammo, just was to anxious to shoot it until my reloading supplies get here, have 90gr eldx in route. Just baffeled to shoot secent with factory ammo then all the next shots open way up. It just didnt makes sence, plus i checked all mounting screws and everything was tight.

 

[bschneiderheinze]

Could have been a lot of things. If your custom to shooting heavier rifles which which I am it might have thrown you off. My rifle weighs 22-24lbs my sons rifle same caliber weighs 16-18. I can’t shoot groups with his for shit granted I’m talking going from .25 to .75. My guess was is you were lucky with the first five shots and the rifle needs cleaned good and try a different ammo. I would honestly from them results over clean run a wet patch down let it sit brush at least as many shots as you took and do the same thing again. I don’t use brushes any of my Bartleins anymore but you get what you pay for. I had a 700 vls in 308 and that I shot for many years never saw anything but a bore snake. That rifle was 1/2 moa easy with 2000 rounds on it. I’ve owned a lot of those SPS varmints and they will shoot.

 

[jpspeeddemon]

You have some vertical grouping which could be casued by different pressure on the barrel depending on your placement of the stock on the shooting bags. With a non-free floating barrel, if you are not consistent with your bag placement or pressure between the stock and barrel, then you can get vertical like that.

 

[Shooter89]

I have bedded my scope base to make sure it was flat. Gunna start bedding and free floating the stock tomorrow. Also my reloading supplies should be here in the next day or so. Gunna clean my barrel and try again to see if there is an improvement. I am hoping to get to the range this weekend sometime. And when i get back ill post an update.

 

[Shooter89]

Well just got done bedding my action, cleaned my barrel really good be4 bedding. Recieved my loading supplies so tomorrow i am gunna get the action cleaned up and load a few rounds for sunday gunday....

 

[PAYDIRT]

I'd say ammo. Even with your first group decent, the stars could have aligned. I have a sps 223 that's a little picky but with the right ammo it will shoot tight groups.

 

[Shooter89]

Paydirt, i have 90gr eldx to try before the weekend is over.

 

[Shifter]

My old savage 110 .243 does that with Winchester Super X 95gr as well. 8” groups at 100 yards.
Ran Winchester Supreme (also 95 gr) right after and tightened up to 2”.
Could be copper fouling as many said, or your gun just dislikes that particular load.
Let us know how your next load goes!

 

[Shooter89]

Update!!!

Getting frustrated fellas, i bedded my scope base my action and completely free floated my barrel. Groups were shot .010 off the lands and with h4350 5 3 shot groups. 90 gr eldx bullets with starline brass and federal match grade primers. What now????

 

[jpspeeddemon]

maybe recrown the barrel

 

[OG10]

I sent you a pm give me a call.

 

[Shooter89]

Well have it another shot.... Cleaned the barrel till it was spotless and loaded my ammo to factory length and went through the different powder charges from min to maximum.... Anyone have any suggestions???
90gr eldx
Starline brass
H4350
Federal match primers.

 

[Shooter89]

Last ditch effort i tried my lands test to see what would happen if i picked the lowest powder charge and started setting off the lands. Surprisingly there seems to be a node at .050 off the lands. I am gunna try setting the bullet off in both directions alittle more and see what happens. 3 shots are 1 inch at .050 off the lands.

 

[ShtrRdy]

That sounds encouraging.

 

[OG10]

Load some more at .050 and reshoot try at lest 3 x3 the more you shoot the better overall picture you will have of the load. Then if it works consistently move out to distances and see how it holds up.Remember not every barrel will shoot every load accurately. Good luck and keep posting up your results.

 

[Shooter89]

loaded a few more from 0.040 to 0.060 off the lands in 5 shot groups. The 2 best groups were 0.040 and 0.055 off the lands. Running tye minimum load for h4350. 0.055 has the least vertical dispersion with 1 flier. Any suggestions on which to do further testing on? Oh maybe there is something i am missing reading the groups that someone more experienced can chime in on....

 

[Booner1334]

You haven't said but I assume your shooting at 100 yards. If you say it's 300 yards, then we're talking something else.


You start out with 20 rounds, the first five give a pretty good group then everything else since then opens up.
lets be systematic about this. It looked like you had two promising groups
Have you bore scoped the barrel? I'd be more concerned about the chamber/lead area than chatter marks in the barrel.
No offence, but let someone else shoot it for groups. if their groups are poor as well, we know it's not you. Again, no offence meant.
If the rifle passes those two tests, then back to square one. I normally start with powder charges, then bullet types and weights. after that I fine tune it by bullet jump, neck turning etc. You said the stock was plastic, they can really be problematic with how they are held.

When you worked up powder loads, you said you went from min to max loads; what was the interval between the various powder charges? It looked like 38.6 of H 4350 with a 90 grain bullet showed promise.

 

[Shooter89]

Yes i am shooting at 100 yards to get a load, i have not scoped the barrel i been looking to buy one but money is tight right now. I had a 7 rem mag that i had no problem holding .5 to .750 5 shot groups consistently using berger vld's. Went through 300 rnds before deciding to sell to purchase a rifle that was cheaper to feed. I have tried every bullet length and powder combination 2 times. One day ill shoot a 1moa group the next week with same load will print a 4 moa group using the same ammo from the week prior. Action has been bedded and barrel fully floated with over 1/8 clearence from muzzle to action. Checked cold and warm. Forend has been completely filled with epoxy to stiffen up. Scope base, rings have been checked and torqued and locktight to spec. Scope is a swfa 10x42. The groups above from today are all the same powder charge. The same charge shot from the week prior that held 1 moa, thats the one 0.050 from the lands. This week it was a 2 or 2.5 moa group. Almost every group has mystery fliers for no apparent reason. Also taking advise from others on here i cleaned my bore squeaky clean and it didnt seem to help. Kept cleaning till there was no blue and clean bore. Actually tomorrow i will be heading back to the range again. Afterwards i put over 120 rounds through the barrel 20 Remington corelocks and 100 90gr eldx. Just am stumped and ready to give up on it.

 

[308pirate]

My 1st 5 shots, then adjusted the scope is all i did, yes i only shot 20 rnds of factory ammo, just was to anxious to shoot it until my reloading supplies get here, have 90gr eldx in route. Just baffeled to shoot secent with factory ammo then all the next shots open way up. It just didnt makes sence, plus i checked all mounting screws and everything was tight.

Your barrel is rougher than a cob inside. It loads up with copper fast and accuracy goes to shit. You've already been given the answer: clean the shit out of it with aggressive copper solvents then fire lap it with Tubb FinalFinish.

Have you done the fire lapping yet?

 

[Shooter89]

No.... just shoot about 15rnds and clean it. Cleaning didnt seem to help